Marriage feedback [inofficial Poll]

All this 'Its pointless in a video game' is really 'It's pointless to me'. People should just stop saying it, less we start removing things that a few people find is pointless 'to them', which could end up being all of FFXIV

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Originally Posted by Twiddle

Well then i think your debate rather well solves it self. If you look at it either every one can or no one can. And seeing as the "no one can" option falls out what are you left with? Make it available to every one... you wanted a solution there you go. Any one not on a high horse, possessing an open mind would not object. People who want it will be happy. People with the mind set of the inquisition can deal with it. See that was not so hard.

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Problem is they are already going to add in marriage and want feedback on it, particularly the same sex marriage issue. Thats how I saw his answer to the question worded, and that is what this thread is for. its like how they were already going to add in auto attack and wanted feedback on it. No amounts of "I dont want auto attack" prevented auto attack. Unfortunantly, auto attack is one of those things that you were forced to do the rest of the game weather you liked it or not.

However, adding in marriage does not mean you have to get married in the game. You can avoid it, and let the people who want to partake in it partake.

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Originally Posted by Reika

The last one is already ruled out. They are adding in marriage and a chapel to do so in. Not to have it is limiting the MMO gaming world. Various MMO's have marriage and marriage attire in their games.

Those are very limited options in any case. The actual best option is no GM sponsering of marriage. Adding in of items ether purchased from NPC's or crafted (going with crafted for the signatures) and player hosted weddings. With this, SE needs not take any stance on the SSM issue.

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That's a perfect solution, along with not calling it marriage (for everyone) if need be.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

That's a perfect solution, along with not calling it marriage (for everyone) if need be.

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That would be perfect, call it Bonding or something. Anything but marriage and it should satisfy the player base.

That doesn't mean that we should call it something different IRL. But this is a fictional game so make up a fictional ceremony called Bonding or some other name other than marriage.

Both sides should agree to this.

Not only that but SE doesn't even have to say "We're allowing same sex marriage." All they have to say is "We're allowing all players to get married." That's it. Not restricting it isn't necessarily condoning it.

I would rather SE just man up and support it. It doesnt mean any country has to change it's laws, its not a RL marriage.

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Originally Posted by Reika

I would rather SE just man up and support it. It doesnt mean any country has to change it's laws, its not a RL marriage.

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While I agree, I'm okay with them doing whatever they have to as a company to avoid messy PR issues. If that means not directly supporting it while at the same time not restricting it, I'll take it lol. Whatever they need to do to make this system no longer restricted based on character genders.

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Originally Posted by Reika

I would rather SE just man up and support it. It doesnt mean any country has to change it's laws, its not a RL marriage.

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If it's not a RL marriage but something fake why does it need a certain name? Its a fake world it can be called anything. Also as other have pointed out its not about gay rights nor should it be.

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Originally Posted by Serdapi

If it's not a RL marriage but something fake why does it need a certain name? Its a fake world it can be called anything. Also as other have pointed out its not about gay rights nor should it be.

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Well yea, im just use to saying marriage, especially since no one has really agreed on what different name to call it.

Let's call it SPIRITBONDING!!!

....owait. :(

Just to address all of those who are saying "stop talking about this, it's a game, no one cares if you're allowed to marry!"...

While I agree that allowing or disallowing gay marriage will not directly in and of itself affect anything in "real life", I cannot say it will have no affect on the people who play the game— and not just gay people being offended because they can't seem to escape discrimination, even in an escapist fantasy.

Whether we like it or not, our entertainment can often influence our decisions and opinions of things we see in real life. As a gay rights activist, the problem has rarely been in making a logical case for gay marriage. We win pretty much every debate we get into, any outside observer could clearly see that.

No, the biggest problem is fighting the stigma that gays and gay marriage is weird and unfamiliar. Most people aren't against gay marriage because of any strong opinions, but because for decades gays have been portrayed as pedophiles, as diseased sexual vagrants, or as people who are just confused about who they are and need help from a higher power.

That stigmatization has a lasting effect on people, and very often the only way to combat it is letting them get used to gay people, and see for themselves that the stigma is wrong. Often it only takes having gay marriage legalized in your area for people to realize that gay marriage doesn't bring about a dystopian world where people run around in the streets buck naked and rape anyone who passes by.

If SE bans gay marriage in game, it could reinforce the idea that gay marriage is strange and foreign, not just to the people who play the game, but to anyone else who sees the developers of yet another MMO that won't allow gay marriage in their game.

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Originally Posted by Vilhem

Let's call it SPIRITBONDING!!!

....owait. :(

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Haha! Only if when someone gets divorced they can turn their house and car into materia e_e

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Originally Posted by Kraggy

Of course, since people want 'gay' marriage, I assume polygamy is also wanted, because no one's asking for just 'their' pet likes to be implemented, are they. Polygamy is practiced in many parts of the real world.

I doubt however the pro-gays will be pushing for that social variant though.

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I know plenty of people who are fighting for polyamory, and I tell them all the same thing: You need to make your own argument for having more than one spouse, because you'll not have any success piggybacking on gay marriage.

First of all, the argument for gay marriage is largely based on homosexuality being an immutable trait (meaning that it's something people can't change), there's nothing immutable about wanting more than one spouse.

As far as in-game polyamory goes, I don't know how they'd implement it (seeing as how we don't know what in-game marriage entails), but doing so may require more work and more headache than they're willing to go through. If you already have a mechanic in the game for two people to marry, allowing gay marriage is as easy as deleting a line of code. Making it possible to have multiple spouses, however, is a different animal entirely.

I think it'd be interesting to have the option, though. I'm not opposed to polyamory in real life or in-game, so long as there's a system in place that allows it to work, although I very much pity anyone who might eventually find themselves having to go through divorce with multiple spouses at once.

XI didn't have it. XIV wont either.

Woo hoo! /thread

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Originally Posted by Nix

Offtopic maybe? But I got sent this link by a gay friend of mine this morning, I figure it's a bit light hearted and something some would find amusing.


(Also a great reason to allow SSM! haha)

clicky!

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LMFAO! We watched this at work 2 days ago. Was funny as hell. xD

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Originally Posted by Kerwin

XI didn't have it. XIV wont either.

Woo hoo! /thread

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more like /madefoolofselflikesomeothers

XI didn't have Materia either.

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Originally Posted by Vilhem

Let's call it SPIRITBONDING!!!

....owait. :(

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This is my favorite. Would give a whole new dimension to what is currently materia crafting.

"Honey, want to do some spiritbonding tonight?"

"Sure, just let me get some subligar crafted and we'll be all set."

I heard something on the radio today, and thought I'd share it. I don't know if this was posted but like hell I'm reading 86 pages. I read up to 30 and stopped cause of people just whining for Yoshi-P to add it and nobody realizing that even now STILL its a TOUCHY issue and a PR nightmare for such a large company.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_ri...y_or_territory

Here. Read the page, look at the charts. This is enough to make them not want to implement it and have to deal with a lot of bull from other countries. It's not even recognized in Japan, just not illegal ( heck much of the USA still doesn't even recognize it). They just wanna add something for fun and people cry cause they think they're being left out, when they don't realize all the crap SE could possibly get to make a small % of the player base happy, since we can only see the number of likes supporting it in this thread. Plus, they aren't exactly "restricting" it between real LGBT couples since you are free to choose a gender (and now re-choose) that isn't your own anyway. So if it matters that much just change. Don't make them ruin something fun for something you know is still a very delicate subject.

And for the record, I have nothing against LGBT couples, and have many friends who are homosexual or transgender. I just am tired of seeing people pull the discrimination card for something like marriage in a video game.

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Originally Posted by Geesus

LMFAO! We watched this at work 2 days ago. Was funny as hell. xD

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XD I'm glad you liked it! haha, I showed it to my husband after my gay friend showed it to me and I'm like
"Sorry T, I'm gonna go marry Brodie. Atleast he'll make me a mother f***ing quiche!"

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Originally Posted by Reika

more like /madefoolofselflikesomeothers

XI didn't have Materia either.

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Please stay mad.

Interesting list of video games and LGBT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...in_video_games

Square Enix has already had its name in there before - do it again SE. A bunch of American companies are making you look slow :P

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Originally Posted by Kerwin

Please stay mad.

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See, normally when people have their arguments shot down, they either own up and amend their argument or respond with a rebuttal. Accusing people of being mad when they're clearly not just makes it look like you're deflecting.

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Originally Posted by Terri

I heard something on the radio today, and thought I'd share it. I don't know if this was posted but like hell I'm reading 86 pages. I read up to 30 and stopped cause of people just whining for Yoshi-P to add it and nobody realizing that even now STILL its a TOUCHY issue and a PR nightmare for such a large company.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_ri...y_or_territory

Here. Read the page, look at the charts. This is enough to make them not want to implement it and have to deal with a lot of bull from other countries. It's not even recognized in Japan, just not illegal ( heck much of the USA still doesn't even recognize it). They just wanna add something for fun and people cry cause they think they're being left out, when they don't realize all the crap SE could possibly get to make a small % of the player base happy, since we can only see the number of likes supporting it in this thread. Plus, they aren't exactly "restricting" it between real LGBT couples since you are free to choose a gender (and now re-choose) that isn't your own anyway. So if it matters that much just change. Don't make them ruin something fun for something you know is still a very delicate subject.

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What, so when people who want them to allow same gender couples speak up, they're whining and complaining about something they want; but when people who don't want them to allow gays to marry speak up, they're not doing anything wrong?

This could be a PR nightmare whether they allow characters of the same gender to marry or not, and just telling people to change their character's gender if they don't like it isn't a solution. You can't change the gender of your character at will, and it's unreasonable to expect people to roll brand new characters any time they can't marry someone.

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Originally Posted by Terri

And for the record, I have nothing against LGBT couples, and have many friends who are homosexual or transgender. I just am tired of seeing people pull the discrimination card for something like marriage in a video game.

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Do us all a favor and do not ever try to justify your arguments by hiding behind your LGBT friends. Being friends with someone does not automatically mean you have their best interests at heart, or that you completely understand the issues pertaining to their lives, and waving your relationship with them around like it's a free pass to say whatever you like just makes you seem incredibly insensitive.

Okay? Okay.

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Originally Posted by Keisuna

See, normally when people have their arguments shot down, they either own up and amend their argument or respond with a rebuttal. Accusing people of being mad when they're clearly not just makes it look like you're deflecting.

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Please stay mad little one. Because there was no argument to begin with, so your point is invalid. :)

Edit: Oh, also there is an edit button. Look into it, no need to double post.

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Originally Posted by Kerwin

Please stay mad little one.

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Ha! Sure thing, hun. You're just trolling yourself at this point.

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Originally Posted by Keisuna

What, so when people who want them to allow same gender couples speak up, they're whining and complaining about something they want; but when people who don't want them to allow gays to marry speak up, they're not doing anything wrong?

This could be a PR nightmare whether they allow characters of the same gender to marry or not, and just telling people to change their character's gender if they don't like it isn't a solution. You can't change the gender of your character at will, and it's unreasonable to expect people to roll brand new characters any time they can't marry someone.

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Not to mention many here have suggested ways in which they could avoid the "PR nightmare".

1. Change the name of marriage to something else (for everyone).

2. Allow it to be more player driven by simply giving us the means to do it ourselves.

3. Phrase the removal of the restriction completely differently so that you don't have to actually take a stance. Saying that you're simply allowing all players to marry instead of allowing same sex marriage is neutral enough of a statement.

Hell if you want to be really cowardly about it, just "forget" to implement the restriction in the system and then never go back to add it. I really don't care how they do it at this point lol.

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Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

Well my boyfriend plays a female character.. and so do I.. it would suck a lot if they chose no.....

I'm sure I'm not the only one in this type of situation.

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i totally got the same issue in FF11 :O now he (my bf o.x) is a highlander, but he tends to become a female galka >.>' then we have the same problem again in ARR -.- pls :O if people love it each other, isn't that all that matter? what is so wrong with expressing that to the outside world in a game world =( (therefore i say i am a female and my irl boyfriend is...well... male :\ )

everyone has his pro and cons to stuff in the world. like some people like spiders, and some people rather see a world without them- that doesn't mean that people who dislike spiders should be listen to and all the spider be round up :| as for more sensitive subjects like some people rather see someone else suffer (physically)- we all know that isn't right but if someone gets hurt by hurting their feelings (mentally)- that person (which is hurt) has the right and the choice to look the other way.

so if there are people out there who are against same sex marriage based on (mental) believes; just shut your eyes, turn around and walk away. no need to feel hurt if you can just 'walk away' from it. some things in this world are 'allowed' based on ethical decisions. Even if the entire SQEX staff is against this, minus 1 or 2, if the ethical voice of 'everyone is the same and needs to be treated the same', what can they possibly begin. if SQEX wants to be traditional, it will make the marriage a private happening, like in 11- so anyone who feels the need to object, can just turn down the invitation.

or... because it is just a game- people might also just tag along and see a different world (thereby i mean the same world from a different perspective).

i hope i don't discourage anyone with what i am saying, and i don't want to start a new '80's feeling like 'everyone should love each other'. it is just that i think and know everyone is that same- 'we bleed the same' so, please SQEX and everyone else who has doubts or objections; we live in one world, with one sky. many people share the same sky, although for everyone it might be a different world below that sky. but we are the same, no matter where you are born, raised, work or what you believe in. if we strip our worlds from ethical decisions and reason- we are the same and that's the base principal.

Marriage equality is now spiders.

Carry on.

It's a virtual world. Who cares who marries who online when it's an avatar. Besides, having same sex marriage will fuel those doujin productions with same sex coupling no more than its current state, which is already pretty prolific. Rabid fans will be rabid fans, and rule 34 applies to everything. If your childhood/innocence hasn't been ruined yet, obviously you haven't been searching hard enough.

it dosent make a difference to me , its not that important in the grand scheme of things.

i would like to see more posts about the things that actually matter, like player housing and Freecompany, the jobs and how they will play out in ARR, the Raids, Crafting gathering, the Main story, Market system, Like yoshi said that if all the lvl50 players collect their gil it'll get them a small sized house.. i think thats more interesting lol

if its going to be a yes or no vote ide say yes sure, itll make some people happy and other who dont like it dont have to do this content themselves, i for one will be focusing on more important aspects of the game, and i think most people will ~(-.^~)

Um, for whomever said FFXIV never had LGBT references..

I give you the Lvl 36 Culinarian quest.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

Um, for whomever said FFXIV never had LGBT references..

I give you the Lvl 36 Culinarian quest.

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TL: DW: version:

Prudentia is a crossdressing man. Of course, not many people ever did the lvl36 Culinarian quest....

the uldan inn keeper is bi... he flirts with you if you're a guy or girl

OK, any guy wanna get married with me in game and make the most epic gay wedding Eorzea will ever witness Day 1 of 2.0 to show SE how fun it can be? Let's bring all the server to the wedding!


Apply within (no Lalafell please ;) )

http://pixff.xtgem.com/images/ff10seymour_1024.jpg

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Originally Posted by Hysterior

OK, any guy wanna get married with me in game and make the most epic gay wedding Eorzea will ever witness Day 1 of 2.0 to show SE how fun it can be? Let's bring all the server to the wedding!


Apply within (no Lalafell please ;) )

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Maybe if you had Thancred's hair.. >_>;

Easy fix: Just as FFXI, they can make the matrimonial set (males also had some type of set), the rings and bands available for sale to everyone.

As for having an official wedding in-game, have a friend do the ceremony.

P.S. I apologize if this has been mentioned..... 88 pages, keep it going!!

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Originally Posted by Khaiden

Easy fix: Just as FFXI, they can make the matrimonial set (males also had some type of set), the rings and bands available for sale to everyone.

As for having an official wedding in-game, have a friend do the ceremony.

P.S. I apologize if this has been mentioned..... 88 pages, keep it going!!

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Are you saying official weddings are not allowed for the LG community? Or that there are no official weddings lol?

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Not to mention many here have suggested ways in which they could avoid the "PR nightmare".

1. Change the name of marriage to something else (for everyone).

2. Allow it to be more player driven by simply giving us the means to do it ourselves.

3. Phrase the removal of the restriction completely differently so that you don't have to actually take a stance. Saying that you're simply allowing all players to marry instead of allowing same sex marriage is neutral enough of a statement.

Hell if you want to be really cowardly about it, just "forget" to implement the restriction in the system and then never go back to add it. I really don't care how they do it at this point lol.

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Well said, This makes the most since. Everyone should be able to participate in the content.

Sorry to the real life religious people in advance if this offensive but...

The world of XIV has no real-world religion tied to it, and real-life religion should not be forced upon those who do not follow those beliefs. Marriage is a ceremony of people's affection and spans across multiple religions, it is not tied to one belief. Therefore this belief should not be pushed onto others in an online game.

Pro same sex marriage.

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Originally Posted by Altena

The world of XIV has no real-world religion tied to it

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It has religeon... people worship the twelve...


Also, this is still going on? I feel like it is this kind of extension of the presidential debates.

Something else I should point out that most people dont get when they see references to "gay" stuff in Japanese culture.

THEY ARE MAKING FUN OF IT.

The Japanese are not a pro-LBGT society. I have lived there for many years and most of the male friends I have there are scared to DEATH of gay men. Naturally, it is a chauvanist society, so 2 women together is just seen as kinky (sadly). There have been changes over the years in a liberal direction but they are FAR from openly accepting gay culture.

It seems harmless to us when we see them making fun of LBGT characters because our own media embraces LBGT peoples with open arms and actively promotes the acceptance of it in society (Fox News and CNN aside).

Just keep that in mind when you are trying to use Japanese examples or get behind them in an attempt to point out that they or their products somehow support LBGT goals.