Yoshida-san: Please Give Us a BETTER System for Relics and Future 2.0 Challenges!

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

It's not really based on skill if you think about it. Zerg the enemies as fast as you can. WHY must content be focused on speeding through it and luck? Come on SE... give us something hard. Ifrit, Moogle, and Garuda can still be hard with randoms sometimes and Hamlet is super easy. QUIT making everything a speed run!

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It is skill. Why don't you try to pull a 17min speedrun, I am pretty sure you couldn't pull it.

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Originally Posted by Req

What exactly is your definition of skill?

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It really comes down to the fact that not much "Skill" is required once the strategy is out and optimal setups are discovered. I just don't see the point in bypassing a good 3/4th of a dungeon just so you can get to/kill boss faster.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

It is skill. Why don't you try to pull a 17min speedrun, I am pretty sure you couldn't pull it.

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I don't believe it is a question of skill. Everything does require some form of skill. Only zerging content to me is simply not fun, just how I look at it. Alas, I have to play with the cards I am dealt with. So when I get to that stage, gotta get people beefed up and try my best to beat that time required.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

It really comes down to the fact that not much "Skill" is required once the strategy is out and optimal setups are discovered. I just don't see the point in bypassing a good 3/4th of a dungeon just so you can get to/kill boss faster.

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in AV/CC you have to kill 3/4 of a dungeon to get through next area and 5 chest....? I wonder if you ever speedrun before in the new dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

I don't believe it is a question of skill. Everything does require some form of skill. Only zerging content to me is simply not fun, just how I look at it. Alas, I have to play with the cards I am dealt with. So when I get to that stage, gotta get people beefed up and try my best to beat that time required.

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Oh i agree with you, i don't particularly enjoy zerging as well. I was just countering a statement that sounded very stupid to me.

And not a single dev. response.
Lame..

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Originally Posted by Sagagemini

And not a single dev. response.
Lame..

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This thread is certainly not worth a dev response. Specifically because they're in a full lose/lose situation. Whatever they say here will be met only with hathred and flames so regardless of what they're doing with all of this feedback, until they got some miraculous words to say here that can defacto contribute (i'm sure everyone would rage if they simply said 'we're working on it' because people always do that) they're keeping shut

Edit: Also the site on your signature is on maitenance :(

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Originally Posted by Skies

This thread is certainly not worth a dev response. Specifically because they're in a full lose/lose situation. Whatever they say here will be met only with hathred and flames so regardless of what they're doing with all of this feedback, until they got some miraculous words to say here that can defacto contribute (i'm sure everyone would rage if they simply said 'we're working on it' because people always do that) they're keeping shut

Edit: Also the site on your signature is on maitenance :(

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I disagree, if anything, it is a proper Dev response would calm most down. Even if people do rage, it is better to respond than not to respond. I rather be wrong than wrong "and" ignorant to my community. They promise better communication with us, it would be nice if they showed it by giving us a response to this and not vague statements like they have in the past.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

I disagree, if anything, it is a proper Dev response would calm most down. Even if people do rage, it is better to respond than not to respond. I rather be wrong than wrong "and" ignorant to my community. They promise better communication with us, it would be nice if they showed it by giving us a response to this and not vague statements like they have in the past.

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what the heck, dev promising communication with players doesn't mean they're gonna bow and give in to the players and start giving out epic lootz and kissing their feet once someone cry about low drop rate of something that is suppose to be rare.

and what happens if the respond they gave are not what YOU want to hear? whine rant rage cry again?

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Originally Posted by Eard

what the heck, dev promising communication with players doesn't mean they're gonna bow and give in to the players and start giving out epic lootz and kissing their feet once someone cry about low drop rate of something that is suppose to be rare.

and what happens if the respond they gave are not what YOU want to hear? whine rant rage cry again?

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every time they dont give the answer people want, people demand another answer more to their liking and the whining about no dev response continues

Yeah, would love Yoshi's personal response even if he decides to keep the quest line and his justification, so people would finally stop posting in this thread repeating the same thing lol.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

in AV/CC you have to kill 3/4 of a dungeon to get through next area and 5 chest....? I wonder if you ever speedrun before in the new dungeon.

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I have not done any speed runs of the new dungeons, I hardly play them personally. I assumed that aside the forced encounters people did the same thing as Darkhold and skipped as much as possible.

I think you all need to check your definition of a "zerg." "zerging" is attacking something with quantity instead of quality. You can only take 8 people into a dungeon at a time, and that is what the instances are balanced for. There is nothing in this game that can make a crappy player do 150 dps to mistress, which is what would need to happen to get the 17 minute speed run achievement.

A good 70% of your damage output, if not more is skill based, you can take the shittiest player and deck them out with the best gear and nothing will make them be on par with a skilled player who knows their job well, even if that skilled player is sitting there in basic AF.

There are no kraken club dark knights, there is no 2 houred double haste and attack buffs, there is absolutely nothing that will make a shitty player do insane amounts of damage.

The only thing that qualifies as a zerg in this game right now is if you were to take 15 players and go fight the stronghold bosses when those fights were balanced around having a single 8 man party.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

I have not done any speed runs of the new dungeons, I hardly play them personally. I assumed that aside the forced encounters people did the same thing as Darkhold and skipped as much as possible.

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Nope, you are forced to kill like 3/4 of the mobs there to move forward :)

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Originally Posted by Eard

what the heck, dev promising communication with players doesn't mean they're gonna bow and give in to the players and start giving out epic lootz and kissing their feet once someone cry about low drop rate of something that is suppose to be rare.

and what happens if the respond they gave are not what YOU want to hear? whine rant rage cry again?

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It isn't necessarily about changing anything. It is giving justification to why they decided to go this route when we have successful forms of play like Garuda's reward system in place. Why do you assume we are wanting easier content? We want hard content that plays an equal playing ground for people.

I will only repeat myself as many times as the people who come in and don't understand the intent of our complaints. If you need it in a tl;dr fashion, here it is: We don't want quest progression through RNG. There you go.

If they don't say what I like, I will simply disagree. You can't completely change a quest structure, since people are already progressing through it. What I want personally is only a response explaining why the RNG system is in place instead of a viable token like system, or a large based progression system.

This isn't exactly for changing what is right now, it is making sure our future in 2.0 is a pleasant one and not a system based off RNG that most people are not very fond of. Do I think they should change some things in the quest? Yes. Can they do it? Yes. Should they do it? Yes. I will understand if they can't at this point, but put me at ease that in the future, any hard work I put into this game will be worthwhile.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Nope, you are forced to kill like 3/4 of the mobs there to move forward :)

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You are forced to kill certain mobs. I don't really think it is quite 3/4ths in AV, CC maybe but its not like they are even proper trash when many of them are killed in one round of AOE.

Also skill I don't know... its still all about efficiency from the moment you enter. Even though people may blow through the bosses due to their skills at their jobs basic role, in the end the majority of that 17 minutes amounts to a race through a dungeon we've all done a hundred times with characters who all run at a set speed, there is no real skill or talent involved you can't run faster or punt lalafells with such precision that they land on the portals just perfectly. You can just run a precise route that is the fastest route from point A to B, with as little interruption as possible.

Efficiency is definitely a skill, it just isn't the skill I'd personally choose to continuously hold above all others when playing a video game for fun.

I'd rather our reaction, or more complex demands on a group's ability to work as a team be tested through endgame content.

Enjoyment> Efficiency, and first kills are always more meaningful than fastest farm kills. SE needs to get endgame back on track and provide us with a more enjoyable experience filled with memorable moments (great saves, last stands, caught off guard...backs against the wall, against all odds type moments) rather than monotony and stop watches. Which is all they have given us in dungeons so far unfortunately :(

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Yeah, would love Yoshi's personal response even if he decides to keep the quest line and his justification, so people would finally stop posting in this thread repeating the same thing lol.

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yoshi would probably say QQ more plox! then get on his character and randomly PK folks

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Originally Posted by Murugan

You are forced to kill certain mobs. I don't really think it is quite 3/4ths in AV, CC maybe but its not like they are even proper trash when many of them are killed in one round of AOE.

Also skill I don't know... its still all about efficiency from the moment you enter. Even though people may blow through the bosses due to their skills at their jobs basic role, in the end the majority of that 17 minutes amounts to a race through a dungeon we've all done a hundred times with characters who all run at a set speed. That's not really being skilled at anything but efficiency. Efficiency is definitely a skill, it just isn't the skill I'd personally choose to continuously hold above all others when playing a video game for fun.

I'd rather our reaction, or more complex demands on a group's ability to work as a team be tested.

Enjoyment> Efficiency, and first kills are always more meaningful than fastest farm kills. SE needs to get endgame back on track and provide us with a more enjoyable experience filled with memorable moments rather than monotony and stop watches.

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I guess thats why i dont really mind speedruns because playing with efficient people is my enjoyment! need full darklight unnff...

My Guess for what devs are trying to do:

- Hardcore gamers will try for the 5 chest 17min run for the items

- Semi Hardcore gamers will keep on trying the 25min TA and hope they get enough items

Casual players who thought they were going to get AF weapons and not Relic weapons either gave up totally or will have to wait till level cap increase or some action/dungeon adjustments in the future where the runs can be much much easier to clear under 17min with 5 chest, kind of like running through Totorak. They will eventually get the AF weapons but almost never at same speed as those Hardcore/Semi hardcore people.

Kind of goes back to how YoshiP wanted it to be where hardcore players has these weapons and casual players can look at them and go "Oh wow, I want that weapon some day!" and once they get the hardcore has newer weapons to keep the game going.

Which is fine in all, just again wished they didn't do this for the first version of the AF weapon at least.
1st version AF weapon - looks pretty (less details than final one) and crappy stats - players will be able to take pics and all that just like how SE showed off jobs screen shots all with these weapons. Most with this will eventually store the weapons in storage and start using regular weapons with materia melded on.

2nd version AF weapon - looks better, awesome stats for now, much much harder to make - as newer weapons come out it gets outdated or they will add 3rd version of the AF weapon with more.... then 4th... or something like that.

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Anyways did any group get 5chest under 17min yet?

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

I guess thats why i dont really mind speedruns because playing with efficient people is my enjoyment! need full darklight unnff...

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I enjoy playing with skilled people, who know their roles. But I'm not so anal retentive that I get kicks from being timed from the moment I enter a dungeon. Do you time yourself doing household chores for fun as well?

Give us rage timers on bosses, hell give us a hallway or a puzzle that we have to figure out in a limited amount of time. Just enough with the clock on every mundane detail of the dungeon...

I'm not a huge cutscene person, especially after I've seen them a hundred times, but what a waste those are. They are actually a hindrance to speed runs. What a scandalous exploit it would be if someone could figure out how to remove them and regain those precious 10-15 seconds lost at the start of every fight. How fast a person can exit a cut scene is I think more important than the difference between someone wearing darklight or not (in terms of seconds saved). People may actually be better served focusing on improving their cutscene exiting skills, rather than farming the rarest drops in the dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Yeah, would love Yoshi's personal response even if he decides to keep the quest line and his justification, so people would finally stop posting in this thread repeating the same thing lol.

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I really would like to see he answer with just one single word
"NO"

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Originally Posted by Velhart

To me, speed runs are a lazy way to add difficulty to a dungeon, nothing but artificial difficulty

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not allowing any mistakes while pushing through as fast as possible is artificial difficulty? man, somebody better tell this to every F1 formula racer. they should get to run the course at their own pace, and find some other way to make it hard. because what they do is super easy otherwise. right?

It's a way out of the grind.

Doing 3 AV runs in <17mins vs doing 900+ runs with the .0125% drop rate.

It may not seem feasible initially, but if the JP blog is indeed correct then it shows it is possible.

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Originally Posted by fusional

not allowing any mistakes while pushing through as fast as possible is artificial difficulty? man, somebody better tell this to every F1 formula racer. they should get to run the course at their own pace, and find some other way to make it hard. because what they do is super easy otherwise. right?

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You aren't truely skilled at being an F1 racer unless you can solve a rubiks cube while driving.

What the hell does formula-1 racing have to do with anything?

I thought we were fighting notorious beasts, dragons, and an imperial invasion. You know that we were "adventurers" I missed the message that said I signed up to play nascar online where everyone races cars (characters) that go the same exact speed, don't accelerate, and was basically just a test of who has the least amount of pit stops.

The pit crew are the ones with the real skill!

My favorite part of the epic cutscene in AV is where you trip the silent alarm, and Miser starts flushing all the loot down the toilet like the scene in Goodfellas so you gotta make sure you get to her before its gone!!!!

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Originally Posted by fusional

not allowing any mistakes while pushing through as fast as possible is artificial difficulty? man, somebody better tell this to every F1 formula racer. they should get to run the course at their own pace, and find some other way to make it hard. because what they do is super easy otherwise. right?

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Yes it is artificial difficulty. Any method of difficulty added would be like increasing Chimera's strength, that is changing difficulty. Someone does a Super Mario Bros. 3 speed run, is the game's difficulty itself any harder? No. The ability to get it done in a short period of time is the difficulty, not one directly toggled in the game. Other MMO's make hard mode raids, where enemies hit harder and use more abilities to create even more strategy, that is increased difficulty. All SE does for a hard mode is influence you to spam rush their dungeons to get 5 chests, the enemies are no tougher than they are, only you attempting to get it within a certain time is what scales the difficulty, no toggling handled on SE's end.

It is an ill comparison to compare it to racing. The point of racing is to be the fastest, this is not a concept not the best solution for MMO's. Sure speed runs in dungeons should be an achievement, and worthwhile in that regard, but blasting through content as fast as possible I don't believe is a fun way to go. Like I said, it isn't a right or wrong statement, it is only how I see it.

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

My Guess for what devs are trying to do:

- Hardcore gamers will try for the 5 chest 17min run for the items

- Semi Hardcore gamers will keep on trying the 25min TA and hope they get enough items

Casual players who thought they were going to get AF weapons and not Relic weapons either gave up totally or will have to wait till level cap increase or some action/dungeon adjustments in the future where the runs can be much much easier to clear under 17min with 5 chest, kind of like running through Totorak. They will eventually get the AF weapons but almost never at same speed as those Hardcore/Semi hardcore people.

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Hi Reinheart,

Yah, if this new method is true (about Under 17 Minutes SR5C), you would've hoped that the developers balanced it out slightly better than essentially "100%" or "0%" (extremes): 100% Drop for Under 17 minutes, to anything over that (even on a standard Speed Run 5C (under 25 minutes) being essentially 0%, as seen from Athalia's runs posted earlier:

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

We're around 100 runs finished now with 800 combined individual chests and I was the only person to get a Mythril. Everyone else has played 6 days for many hours each day and received nothing. We've tried doing things to improve drop rate but nothing seems to work.

As it stands for our group:

Me 1/100 = 1%
Everyone else 0/100 = 0%
Entire PT 1/800 = 0.125% drop rate

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It's sadly a lazy way to increase challenge in an MMO, but it's certainly an easy way to do it for implementation without generating new assets or thought or design.

I don't care if completing a dungeon as fast as you can is skill or not. IMO it's not skill. Just having people in your party that listen and know what to do. SE is stupid for considering this as a sane way to get the relics. Why couldn't they do something with the Primals? I don't think I'm ever going to waste my time with those weapons. It's not worth it until they change it.

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Originally Posted by Req

You aren't truely skilled at being an F1 racer unless you can solve a rubiks cube while driving.

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You forgot to add

and while playing Gran Turismo 5 on small screen and getting 1st place in that as well.

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Originally Posted by Murugan

You are forced to kill certain mobs. I don't really think it is quite 3/4ths in AV, CC maybe but its not like they are even proper trash when many of them are killed in one round of AOE.

Also skill I don't know... its still all about efficiency from the moment you enter. Even though people may blow through the bosses due to their skills at their jobs basic role, in the end the majority of that 17 minutes amounts to a race through a dungeon we've all done a hundred times with characters who all run at a set speed, there is no real skill or talent involved you can't run faster or punt lalafells with such precision that they land on the portals just perfectly. You can just run a precise route that is the fastest route from point A to B, with as little interruption as possible.

Efficiency is definitely a skill, it just isn't the skill I'd personally choose to continuously hold above all others when playing a video game for fun.

I'd rather our reaction, or more complex demands on a group's ability to work as a team be tested through endgame content.

Enjoyment> Efficiency, and first kills are always more meaningful than fastest farm kills. SE needs to get endgame back on track and provide us with a more enjoyable experience filled with memorable moments (great saves, last stands, caught off guard...backs against the wall, against all odds type moments) rather than monotony and stop watches. Which is all they have given us in dungeons so far unfortunately :(

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Well said Murugan, Velhart.

As a fan of racing games, I recognize the challenge of Speed / Clear Times. Beating a section of the Nürburgring with a Koenigsegg CCX in under XX:XX minutes is a great challenge in Gran Turismo.

So, of course a Speed Run under 17 Minutes requires skill and efficiency, but is that really the best method for providing a challenge for players for this Relic Quest, and for Final Fantasy XIV in general?

It's certainly the easiest, laziest way for the Dev Team to implement some "new challenge" for the Relic Quest, but it's poorly thought out in terms of providing a meaningful new gameplay experience.

As Murugan said, having encounters with stuff like "great saves" or "last stands" or being ambushed (truly surprise ambushes), new boss encounters, alternate paths, shifting environments, puzzles, alternate routes, or other variables / challenges would be far more welcome than just shaving more time off the clock.

It's true, the majority of the FF XIV population probably won't be able to complete this 17 minute challenge, but one would hope they designed a better step for the Relic Quest at this point (and in general).

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Originally Posted by Skies

This thread is certainly not worth a dev response. Specifically because they're in a full lose/lose situation. Whatever they say here will be met only with hathred and flames so regardless of what they're doing with all of this feedback, until they got some miraculous words to say here that can defacto contribute (i'm sure everyone would rage if they simply said 'we're working on it' because people always do that) they're keeping shut

Edit: Also the site on your signature is on maitenance :(

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Yea, sorry about the website lol.
I'm working on it!

And I agree with you, people would probably rage regardless of what they say, but it's still nice to know they are paying attention and understand our frustration.
Me, personally, i'd rather see a "We'll fix it in 2.0" then no answer at all. lol

17m time doesn't really bother me that much for a garuntee'd drop especially since you only need to achieve it 3 times. -25m is really just a no wipe run, pretty easy to do.

My LS average run times right now are

AV: 21-22
CC 17-18 (best 16:11)

For CC is just a matter of less messing around to consistently hit <17.

For AV I know how we can shave off 5 minutes, but it makes it more headaching but 3 times only won't be too bad. We stop and SS in a lot of places since we run 1 healer entire raid (we run 1 healer entire CC raid also) and use THM. We can shave 4-5m off by doing 2 WHM at start and not getting Red Fruit and just running through with regen to keep us alive and then by also not getting Red Fruit at the end / sleeping the diremite pack that we usually kill so we can get Red fruit. Benchmarks for 17m run would be CC at about 53m, kill 51, MM engage at 46, kill at 43.5ish.

On our 17mish CC runs we usually reach princess room at 54-53m, kill 52-51, engage Chim at 48-47ish.

Since you only need to do these <.>;; type runs 3-5 times for your entire LS I don't think its too bad if this makes it 100%

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Originally Posted by Kiara

Well said Murugan, Velhart.

As a fan of racing games, I recognize the challenge of Speed / Clear Times. Beating a section of the Nürburgring with a Koenigsegg CCX in under XX:XX minutes is a great challenge in Gran Turismo.

So, of course a Speed Run under 17 Minutes requires skill and efficiency, but is that really the best method for providing a challenge for players for this Relic Quest, and for Final Fantasy XIV in general?

It's certainly the easiest, laziest way for the Dev Team to implement some "new challenge" for the Relic Quest, but it's poorly thought out in terms of providing a meaningful new gameplay experience.

As Murugan said, having encounters with stuff like "great saves" or "last stands" or being ambushed (truly surprise ambushes), new boss encounters, alternate paths, shifting environments, puzzles, alternate routes, or other variables / challenges would be far more welcome than just shaving more time off the clock.

It's true, the majority of the FF XIV population probably won't be able to complete this 17 minute challenge, but one would hope they designed a better step for the Relic Quest at this point (and in general).

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Man, never knew those megaman speedruns meant nothing skillwise...

People are complaining cause the variety of the "challenges" aren't to their liking but what's to say that the upcoming update won't have some insanely difficult NM in which people will be complaining that "this is to hard how am I suppose to have to skill to beat this NM" just wait it'll happen tomorrow to anyone who's completed all the objectives. SE will prolly add some insanely strong NM and people will complain that it's to strong and wonder why they can't add more things which rely on luck or speedrunning it.

We have Hamlets (skill and luck)
We have materia (luck)
We have class weapons (skill and luck)
We have melding (luck)
Kill x Beastmen NM (skill)
We have the dungeon speedruns (skill) o_O if the 100% drop rate is true for under 17 mins

So ya, looks pretty balanced to me there's room to show your luck and room to show your skill. Of course those with more gil will be able to press their luck more but those with less gil will have issues at said point. Just wait though, I bet they'll be a flood of complaints tomorrow when they see how "difficult" they make the final challenges that they are to challenging and require to much skill to beat.

Are you guys serious? 80+ pages of people bitching about shitty drop rates, and now you finally get a way to get 100%, ONE HUNDRED PERCENT, drop rate, yet you still bitch? Claiming that speed & efficiency =/= skill?

If you don't think this requires skill and coordination you are in serious denial. Please post your 17 min SR5C videos. I'd love to see how unskilled you need to be to achieve this.

There is no pleasing some people.

Wow I think this whole quest has become the most ABSURD thing I've seen in recent memory. If SE came out and said the final part of the quest involved breaking your pt into groups of 4 and fighting Ifrit and Garuda at the same time, and had to kill both exactly at 1200, I wouldn't be suprised...

Yoshi-P, here's two options. I'll let you get a full running sprint and kick me in the junk, or you can sleep with my wife. Other than that, I honestly never see myself finishing this...

What a shame. Congrats to those who end up finishing, you will be the 1% of the 1%.

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Originally Posted by MeowyWowie

Are you guys serious? 80+ pages of people bitching about shitty drop rates, and now you finally get a way to get 100%, ONE HUNDRED PERCENT, drop rate, yet you still bitch? Claiming that speed & efficiency =/= skill?

If you don't think this requires skill and coordination you are in serious denial. Please post your 17 min SR5C videos. I'd love to see how unskilled you need to be to achieve this.

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Still a fully BS-y requirement! I seriously dislike it.
However, I do agree it involves a high degree of aptitude at execution to perform that speedrun. I presume also a sufficient level of preparation.

I still think it's utter bullshit because speedruns are far from fun, Darkhold was neat as long as it was the only speedrun around.

http://www.youtube.com/user/7777pingu?feature=watch

easy peezy lemon squeezy.

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Originally Posted by Skies

Still a fully BS-y requirement! I seriously dislike it.
However, I do agree it involves a high degree of aptitude at execution to perform that speedrun. I presume also a sufficient level of preparation.

I still think it's utter bullshit because speedruns are far from fun, Darkhold was neat as long as it was the only speedrun around.

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I really don't think it requires aptitude. It just forces cookie cutter set ups.

AV: Until Coin-Counter, 1 tank, 4 black mages for burning the rooms down as fast as possible, 2 white mages for regen and one bard. That is the only feasible way to get past the two poison rooms quickly. This is absolutely non-negotiable. You cannot clear AV in under 17 minutes unless you use a similar set up.

CC: 2 Tanks until Princess, 3 Black Mages, 2 white mages and a bard. Sub one Tank for a black mage after Princess. Burn everything down as fast as possible. Again this is non-negotiable.

Great game design there. SE wants to move away from this but they keep going back to it. Why? The community has largely expressed their disillusionment with Speed Runs. So what does SE do? Add a (potentially, I don't buy the 17 min req) even more laborious speed run.

Great job SE.

Judging by the flames in this thread and others since the relic quest was released I would bet my life SE is regretting releasing them at this point in the games life-cycle. Just as I predicted.

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Originally Posted by MeowyWowie

Are you guys serious? 80+ pages of people bitching about shitty drop rates, and now you finally get a way to get 100%, ONE HUNDRED PERCENT, drop rate, yet you still bitch? Claiming that speed & efficiency =/= skill?

If you don't think this requires skill and coordination you are in serious denial. Please post your 17 min SR5C videos. I'd love to see how unskilled you need to be to achieve this.

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I'm not satisfied with the endgame content (hamlet defense, and dungeons). They are boring, and not the type of challenge I enjoy. Several endgame players I know, respect, and would like to play FFXIV with have quit because of how disappointing this content has been. Sorry if that offends you, but I want better content after 2.0 and not a repeat of these systems and mechanics. They are sub par compared to every other MMO I have played, including FFXI.

Timers for an entire dungeon is lame and yes is lazy. There is no reason for us to "time attack" it, no reasoning in the story or dungeon design or anything except the artificial clock they tacked on. So is requiring players to spam hamlet defense for Relic, because the content is not fun or challenging. This type of content alone is worth complaining about, you add in a drop rate that encourages you to do it constantly and it hurts the whole endgame experience.

I don't know anyone who truly loves farming AV/CC or hamlet, for the most part they just endure it because they want the drops.

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Originally Posted by Murugan

I'm not satisfied with the endgame content (hamlet defense, and dungeons). They are boring, and not the type of challenge I enjoy. Several endgame players I know, respect, and would like to play FFXIV with have quit because of how disappointing this content has been. Sorry if that offends you, but I want better content after 2.0 and not a repeat of these systems and mechanics. They are sub par compared to every other MMO I have played, including FFXI.

Timers for an entire dungeon is lame and yes is lazy. There is no reason for us to "time attack" it, no reasoning in the story or dungeon design or anything except the artificial clock they tacked on. So is requiring players to spam hamlet defense for Relic, because the content is not fun or challenging. This type of content alone is worth complaining about, you add in a drop rate that encourages you to do it constantly and it hurts the whole endgame experience.

I don't know anyone who truly loves farming AV/CC or hamlet, for the most part they just endure it because they want the drops.

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Why did you quote me to say this? In no part of my post did I mention anything about unique, fun or engaging content.

I agree, I think the content we have now is pretty boring with the exception of Garuda, but it is what it is, filler content. However, people saying that this is not a challenge are just kidding themselves.

That JP video has been out for quite a while, someone posted it months ago. Still, to this day, I have NEVER seen another 17 min AV video, or even claims of any other LS, JP or otherwise, completing this task. It may be easier now with class adjustments, but it's still by no means an easy task.