Would you like an in-game parser?

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Originally Posted by Khemorex

maybe some people should be given the status of a prophet , those people seem to know whats best for all :P

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And we'll create the apostle channel to go with it :)

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Let me fix this

Some healers are so busy watching the parser numbers that they let tanks die :p

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No sir, allow me to fix this. Some DPS are too busy watching netflix and clicking 1-2 buttons that healer runs out of MP and tank dies.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

I never say I boot them personally, but I've been witness to a little over 1250 healers being booted since the beginning of Heavensward for not contributing DPS, and have only seen 2 or 3 that weren't booted for it. If I were to include the healers from ARR I'd see routinely booted, that number would climb significantly higher.

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Did you pretend to keep a tally to make this number up or was pulling a number out of a hat more time efficient?

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Let me fix this

Some healers are so busy watching the parser numbers that they let tanks die :p

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Originally Posted by Archaell

Let me fix this.

Some healers are so busy watching the parser numbers that they make tanks cry.

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Did you two even read his post? :| Also, anyone can make up stories of bad groups, it does nothing to further the conversation or provide any sort of real argument.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Did you two even read his post? :| Also, anyone can make up stories of bad groups, it does nothing to further the conversation or provide any sort of real argument.

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No, I just wanted to make a joke on Archaell's post. I thought the ":p" was a hint ;)

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Originally Posted by Seraphix2407

No sir, allow me to fix this. Some DPS are too busy watching netflix and clicking 1-2 buttons that healer runs out of MP and tank dies.

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Maybe Netflix is the problem, then :p
FYI, it's also a joke.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

No, I just wanted to make a joke on Archaell's post. I thought the ":p" was a hint ;)

Maybe Netflix is the problem, then :p
FYI, it's also a joke.

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Haha, I know it was a joke. It was me just adding it on top of what the other player saying to Rawrz ;). Nothing else.

I was half serious half sarcastic and talking from my experience. :D

1. The girl was crying yesterday and the healer was trying to push her HP as low as possible on purpose.

2. That's how I played my cute scholar alt when str tanks (warriors mainly) were too busy dpsing - I fought the lack of defensive CDs with my own dpsing hobby as healer. :P

Btw. I am up for the parsers, too much problems for tanks and healers when the dps is low.

I used to want an in-game parser, but then I came to the realization that I don't want to be reminded of why I've been tanking/healing the same dungeon for 40 minutes.

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Originally Posted by CarnivalNights

I used to want an in-game parser, but then I came to the realization that I don't want to be reminded of why I've been tanking/healing the same dungeon for 40 minutes.

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Love this answer. Granted, since I am a damage dealer, I don't have this issue in dungeons, but I definitely can relate from when i leveled non-damage dealers.

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Originally Posted by CarnivalNights

I used to want an in-game parser, but then I came to the realization that I don't want to be reminded of why I've been tanking/healing the same dungeon for 40 minutes.

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You mean when you get depressed looking at their performances?

If a personal parser happens, they should add some # or data next to yours, that info will be like the average DPS of the class you are on, so you know if you are somewhat belove average or below.

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Originally Posted by Brinzy

Love this answer. Granted, since I am a damage dealer, I don't have this issue in dungeons, but I definitely can relate from when i leveled non-damage dealers.

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Yeah, I got my SMN/SCH to 60 first and PLD to 60 soon after. I quickly realized that even though I have a 10-15 min queue on my SMN and near instant queues for my SCH/PLD, I'd still spend less time queuing in on my SMN - somehow :| That difference has changed a little bit (not sure if people have just got more accustomed to level 60 rotations, or if gear has made the difference), but it was pretty crazy back then. 15 min queue, 15 min dungeon vs 0 min queue, 35-45 minute runs on my PLD/SCH. :| This was very soon into the expansion, when people were generally between 170 and 179 ilvl.

since this thread has turned to the "lols" section of parsing...

I want a group available "total raid damage parser" implemented so that when it is time for an enrage phase for any content...if you are below the threshold it automatically removes the party from the instance with no penalty and has, in big letters on the screen, "Sorry, your damage is too low for this instance, please try again! <insert face of sad derplander before he became the warrior of darkness>"

Now instead of an annoying enrage wall to bang our heads against...we have a derplander message to encourage us to "try again!" Lol

(And the line has been cast)

o-o I like turtles. #TeamProParser

I like swords. #TeamDPSHarder.

I like fishes cause their so delicious! #slipperyfishmakesforbigDdps!

I like this thread to be locked.

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Originally Posted by Natashio

I like this thread to be locked.

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*Le Gasp* But why? We need to make a little lady's dream to hit 100 pages to come true and to see how many people care enough about the subject to vote. D: </3

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

*Le Gasp* But why? We need to make a little lady's dream to hit 100 pages to come true and to see how many people care enough about the subject to vote. D: </3

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It doesn't matter how many people here care. This is polling FFXIV players that bother to come to the forums that speak English that only care about a parser one way or another to even click on the thread to read it. It's like going to an elementary school on a hot day and asking the kids "Do you like chocolate ice cream, vanilla ice cream, or do you not want any?"

TFW this topic shows up every month.

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Originally Posted by Ciri_Wolf

TFW this topic shows up every month.

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All we need is an in game server to find out :O

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Yeah, I got my SMN/SCH to 60 first and PLD to 60 soon after. I quickly realized that even though I have a 10-15 min queue on my SMN and near instant queues for my SCH/PLD, I'd still spend less time queuing in on my SMN - somehow :| That difference has changed a little bit (not sure if people have just got more accustomed to level 60 rotations, or if gear has made the difference), but it was pretty crazy back then. 15 min queue, 15 min dungeon vs 0 min queue, 35-45 minute runs on my PLD/SCH. :| This was very soon into the expansion, when people were generally between 170 and 179 ilvl.

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This was literally my experience on my WHM/WAR. I'd get fast queues and then 40+ minute dungeons with no wipes. I think it has gotten somewhat better, and I'd really just go with gear, because this still happens to me when I heal level 60 roulette in a normal dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Seraphix2407

If a personal parser happens, they should add some # or data next to yours, that info will be like the average DPS of the class you are on, so you know if you are somewhat belove average or below.

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Average for the same ilvl with the same secondary stats ?
And if there is a high number of slacking DPS, wouldn't that "average" be...kinda low...and irrelevent ?

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Average for the same ilvl with the same secondary stats ?
And if there is a high number of slacking DPS, wouldn't that "average" be...kinda low...and irrelevent ?

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I see your point. But it could be same Ilvl, secondary stats wouldn't be much of a deal as it doesn't increases your dps that much either. RNG also comes involved if someone has better crit than the other person, so maybe have some info on what gear different people has so you can compare to those with same gear almost and iLvl? This idea was a friend of mine, not mine, since we talked about it in our social ls.

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Originally Posted by Seraphix2407

I see your point. But it could be same Ilvl, secondary stats wouldn't be much of a deal as it doesn't increases your dps that much either. RNG also comes involved if someone has better crit than the other person, so maybe have some info on what gear different people has so you can compare to those with same gear almost and iLvl? This idea was a friend of mine, not mine, since we talked about it in our social ls.

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So the servers would have to constantly calculate the average DPS for every ilvl for every job across all servers and display it every... how often are we proposing here? 1 minute? 30 seconds? 20 minutes? Even if you change that to an ilvl bracket that's a lot of data the servers would have to be constantly tracking.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

So the servers would have to constantly calculate the average DPS for every ilvl for every job across all servers and display it every... how often are we proposing here? 1 minute? 30 seconds? 20 minutes? Even if you change that to an ilvl bracket that's a lot of data the servers would have to be constantly tracking.

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* To reduce stress on the server for the new parser, inventory has been reduced to 25 items
* To reduce stress on the server for the new parser, armory has been reduced to 5 items per slot
:p

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

* To reduce stress on the server for the new parser, inventory has been reduced to 25 items
* To reduce stress on the server for the new parser, armory has been reduced to 5 items per slot
:p

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Here here. Personally, I'd like to see inventory and armory space increased, wouldn't you? =)

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

So the servers would have to constantly calculate the average DPS for every ilvl for every job across all servers and display it every... how often are we proposing here? 1 minute? 30 seconds? 20 minutes? Even if you change that to an ilvl bracket that's a lot of data the servers would have to be constantly tracking.

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Or the devs could just get through the content themselves and we could compare it to that. To make it easier for them they can keep on the best gear possible :P

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

So the servers would have to constantly calculate the average DPS for every ilvl for every job across all servers and display it every... how often are we proposing here? 1 minute? 30 seconds? 20 minutes? Even if you change that to an ilvl bracket that's a lot of data the servers would have to be constantly tracking.

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That's what I thought about to talking about it, you don't need to be a engineer to understand how shitty SE servers are. Would be good to have like a list maybe to see who did good in that fight and make the server save it? Like FFlogs is, can see who done most dmg etc? I dunno. Most likely every 30 seconds even 15 seconds. If a personal parser happens, need somewhat info on how people do. How can a person know if they do 1100 in seph ex as MNK 225 with 230 weapon, doing good or bad? I know they could ask people but then again, you always have FFlogs you could look at I guess.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

Here here. Personally, I'd like to see inventory and armory space increased, wouldn't you? =)

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Ofc he would! He doesn't want a parser ;(. But indeed, more space would be amazing, even that I'm a slut SE, subbing retainers, being a crafter is kinda hard on this game :p.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

Here here. Personally, I'd like to see inventory and armory space increased, wouldn't you? =)

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#MoreInventoryNoParser :p

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Originally Posted by Seraphix2407

That's what I thought about to talking about it, you don't need to be a engineer to understand how shitty SE servers are. Would be good to have like a list maybe to see who did good in that fight and make the server save it? Like FFlogs is, can see who done most dmg etc? I dunno. Most likely every 30 seconds even 15 seconds. If a personal parser happens, need somewhat info on how people do. How can a person know if they do 1100 in seph ex as MNK 225 with 230 weapon, doing good or bad? I know they could ask people but then again, you always have FFlogs you could look at I guess.

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I can't imagine that what you're asking for is a trivial task for any server or group of servers. I can't even begin to imagine how many attacks are being made with dots and everything every second in game. Then having to link that data to ilvl and weapon ilvl for every single character online then finally average it all out. The amount of processing power for every interval that the servers are polled for such data, assuming they are even logging it at all, and asked to compile it into a meaningful form can't be trivial.

Look, I don't want to imply that all "proparsers" are horrible evil people. I just feel that parsers can potentially do much more harm than good and the sort of fight club (First rule of parsing is you don't talk about parsing) status of them currently is the best way for it. Either way, Parsers are not the magical wand that will fix all problems in FFXIV as many of the "proparsers" in this thread seem to think they are. I honestly don't think I could enjoy the game with a public parser available to everyone and I know it's a horrible example, but this is the feeling that comes to mind:

Let's say the US government implements an opt in Anti-Terrorist plan where you can have microphones installed in certain rooms of your home (bedrooms and bathrooms omitted, naturally) and a website would track and parse partial logs of what happened in your house to prove you are not a terrorist and everything. Well, you have nothing to hide so you opt in because OMG terrorism is scary right. Then one day you're at the line at the supermarket and some guy says, "So I heard about you yellin' at your kid for not doing his homework the other day." Wouldn't that weird you out?

I dunno the idea that someone is monitoring my game play constantly whether they comment on it or not just makes me feel uncomfortable and it would distract from my enjoyment of the game.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

I dunno the idea that someone is monitoring my game play constantly whether they comment on it or not just makes me feel uncomfortable and it would distract from my enjoyment of the game.

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Plenty of people can tell when you're playing incorrectly, even without a parser. I'm watching everyone in the party anyway, a parser would just let me say "You're doing 500 dps less than you should be in that gear, let me help you improve", and I'd have proof so they can't say "I'm playing my job correctly".

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Originally Posted by Launched

Plenty of people can tell when you're playing incorrectly, even without a parser. I'm watching everyone in the party anyway, a parser would just let me say "You're doing 500 dps less than you should be in that gear, let me help you improve", and I'd have proof so they can't say "I'm playing my job correctly".

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However, it would also allow some to say "Hey, you're doing 100 dps less than you should to be with us" even though they're "playing their job correctly"

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

Parsers are not the magical wand that will fix all problems in FFXIV.

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It will not fix them. Thats correct.

But it will finally make them visible.

Thats an important step.

Before you can fix a problem, you have to recognize it at first. Its not possible to do the second step without the first one.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

It doesn't matter how many people here care. This is polling FFXIV players that bother to come to the forums that speak English that only care about a parser one way or another to even click on the thread to read it. It's like going to an elementary school on a hot day and asking the kids "Do you like chocolate ice cream, vanilla ice cream, or do you not want any?"

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Sure, the data is obviously biased, but that doesn't make it useless. Can we say definitively that the majority of players want a parser? No. However, there have been a lot of discussions on the forums about parsers and there is a large vocal userbase who cries out against it. It is interesting to see that in sheer numbers on this community, the number of players who wants a parser is larger than not. This information could help Square read the previous data from other threads on the subject. It also could simply show Square that there is likely a significant interest for a parser. In other words, no it gives no definitive answers, but it does give information - which is still useful.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

So the servers would have to constantly calculate the average DPS for every ilvl for every job across all servers and display it every... how often are we proposing here? 1 minute? 30 seconds? 20 minutes? Even if you change that to an ilvl bracket that's a lot of data the servers would have to be constantly tracking.

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Why would you need to have it calculated this often? These calculations are already taking place. The server knows what ilvl we are, what damage we are doing etc. I cannot imagine this being a heavy load on the server - but they could simply have a rolling average calculated in a daily basis, during off-peak times.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

I can't imagine that what you're asking for is a trivial task for any server or group of servers. I can't even begin to imagine how many attacks are being made with dots and everything every second in game. Then having to link that data to ilvl and weapon ilvl for every single character online then finally average it all out. The amount of processing power for every interval that the servers are polled for such data, assuming they are even logging it at all, and asked to compile it into a meaningful form can't be trivial.

Look, I don't want to imply that all "proparsers" are horrible evil people. I just feel that parsers can potentially do much more harm than good and the sort of fight club (First rule of parsing is you don't talk about parsing) status of them currently is the best way for it. Either way, Parsers are not the magical wand that will fix all problems in FFXIV as many of the "proparsers" in this thread seem to think they are. I honestly don't think I could enjoy the game with a public parser available to everyone and I know it's a horrible example, but this is the feeling that comes to mind:

Let's say the US government implements an opt in Anti-Terrorist plan where you can have microphones installed in certain rooms of your home (bedrooms and bathrooms omitted, naturally) and a website would track and parse partial logs of what happened in your house to prove you are not a terrorist and everything. Well, you have nothing to hide so you opt in because OMG terrorism is scary right. Then one day you're at the line at the supermarket and some guy says, "So I heard about you yellin' at your kid for not doing his homework the other day." Wouldn't that weird you out?

I dunno the idea that someone is monitoring my game play constantly whether they comment on it or not just makes me feel uncomfortable and it would distract from my enjoyment of the game.

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I dislike your analogy, because the main reason a parser is useful, is that you are working together as a team to overcome something. In virtually every other team-based environment, performance metrics are monitored and posted. For example, in hockey games, your shots on net, saves, hits, goals, points, time on ice, time on offensive, +/- (etc.) are all recorded and posted for you to see. In a work environment, your performance metrics are undoubtedly recorded (i.e. sales numbers, revenue, expenses, clients, satisfaction rate etc.). In these situations, it is important to have these metrics visible by all for two major reasons. First, your performance often affects your team, and thus it is important to your teammates to know your strengths/weaknesses, where you can improve etc. Second, having this information sparks competition, which is an excellent motivator to improve.

In a game like this, where everyone is working towards a common goal, and there is no parser present. It provides a system which does not promote accountability, cooperation, nor competition. It is in everyone's best interest to let their teammates carry them, so they can receive maximum reward, with minimal effort. This is a well studied principal of human behaviour, and is pretty much the cornerstone of our economy.

I get that you may feel uncomfortable being held accountable, but equally so many people feel that players who are not held accountable distract from their enjoyment of the game as well.

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Originally Posted by Launched

Plenty of people can tell when you're playing incorrectly, even without a parser. I'm watching everyone in the party anyway, a parser would just let me say "You're doing 500 dps less than you should be in that gear, let me help you improve", and I'd have proof so they can't say "I'm playing my job correctly".

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You can tell when someone trips and falls while walking down the street too, but that doesn't mean you're going to tell them exactly what they were doing at 5:32PM or exactly how many calories they ate for breakfast this morning.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

You can tell when someone trips and falls while walking down the street too, but that doesn't mean you're going to tell them exactly what they were doing at 5:32PM or exactly how many calories they ate for breakfast this morning.

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Yes, but none of what you are saying has any impact on those people (how many calories you ate, you yelling at your kid for not doing homework). These metrics don't affect the people in your analogies at all. Your DPS does affect the people in your party.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

For example, in hockey games, your shots on net, saves, hits, goals, points, time on ice, time on offensive, +/- (etc.) are all recorded and posted for you to see. In a work environment, your performance metrics are undoubtedly recorded (i.e. sales numbers, revenue, expenses, clients, satisfaction rate etc.). In these situations, it is important to have these metrics visible by all for two major reasons. First, your performance often affects your team, and thus it is important to your teammates to know your strengths/weaknesses, where you can improve etc. Second, having this information sparks competition, which is an excellent motivator to improve.

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But in each of those situations I'm actually getting paid to put up with said evaluations. I am paying to play a video game here. While I do the best I can, I'm certainly not going to cry if Tommy the Tank can't get out of his dungeon 3 seconds faster because I am not pissing through my mp by spamming holy with Presence of Mind up. Can Tommy the tank tell I'm not doing that without a parser? Sure. Will Tommy the Tank be able to wave numbers in my face of all his buddy whms that do 100dps more than me to finish the dungeon 3 seconds faster? Nope.

I am sorry to say this, but it is people like you who make me avoid raiding. I don't like being a burden and I am extremely self conscious of what I do. As I said, I play the game for entertainment and enjoyment. If I want stress and scrutiny over my every move I'll go to work where I get paid for that.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

You can tell when someone trips and falls while walking down the street too, but that doesn't mean you're going to tell them exactly what they were doing at 5:32PM or exactly how many calories they ate for breakfast this morning.

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But your employer would point out that you spend 2 hours a week browsing a forum instead of doing work, because that actually affects other people.

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Originally Posted by Launched

But your employer would point out that you spend 2 hours a week browsing a forum instead of doing work, because that actually affects other people.

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Because I am totally at work right now at 11:49PM, online waiting for a FATE to spawn for stupid beasttribe quests.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

But in each of those situations I'm actually getting paid to put up with said evaluations. I am paying to play a video game here.

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The hockey one, you are not getting paid - unless you are a professional hockey player. However, in plenty of leagues, you pay for entry.

The important note is not who is paying what, it is if and how your actions affect your teammates.

When I am teamed up with a player who is pressing 1 over and over again, or setting someone on auto-follow and afking, or whatever. I don't care that I am paying x dollars per month, or that they are paying x dollars per month. I care that they are in a team environment and not playing as a team.

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While I do the best I can, I'm certainly not going to cry if Tommy the Tank can't get out of his dungeon 3 seconds faster because I am not pissing through my mp by spamming holy with Presence of Mind up. Can Tommy the tank tell I'm not doing that without a parser? Sure. Will Tommy the Tank be able to wave numbers in my face of all his buddy whms that do 100dps more than me to finish the dungeon 3 seconds faster? Nope.

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This seems needlessly antagonistic. I also feel you have a very poor understanding of how changes in DPS affect the speed of a run. For example, a run will be ~20 minutes. DPS for the team will be ~3200. If you increase that by 100 DPS, then you are now moving 3% faster. At 20 minutes, that works out to 36 seconds faster. That said, a 100 increase in DPS is fairly minimal, and generally not the kind of thing we are talking about in this thread.

Further, having higher DPS can often help push phases which may slow you down even more (i.e. skipping the 2nd frog phase on the first boss in Anti-Tower, or the 2nd dollhouse, etc.)

(as a side note, a healer can easily exceed 1.2k DPS on AoE with Holy or dots/bane or gravity)

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I am sorry to say this, but it is people like you who make me avoid raiding. I don't like being a burden and I am extremely self conscious of what I do. As I said, I play the game for entertainment and enjoyment. If I want stress and scrutiny over my every move I'll go to work where I get paid for that.

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I have zero idea why you would avoid raiding because of people like me. Do you care to elaborate?

In terms of raiding, I would say that you will want to take your performance seriously. That said, try to find a team with like-minded individuals. It sounds like you'd want a casual team, one that can laugh it off when you wipe etc. Regardless, you do have 7 other people who are depending on you, and that should be motivation enough to bring your A game. For me, at least, I hate the idea of screwing up in raid.