People advertising they're running Parsers

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

People's feelings aren't usually very rational.

Also, a lot of people who play this game aren't necessarily obsessed with getting stronger or becoming better. They want the rewards behind certain content, but don't want to feel pressured to push their limits too hard.

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"They want the rewards behind certain content, and don't want others to notice they didn't bother putting in what little effort it takes to perform at a level required to obtain it, instead having others carry them."

Unfortunately, that's how I see it, because people will abuse the hell out of a system where you can't be held accountable for performing horrible at your class. Not standing in the ouchies isn't very hard. Not standing in the ouchies while maintaining uptime, generally is.

I ask myself one simple question whenever I do content: would a group of exclusively me be capable of clearing this. If the answer is no, then I'll join a progress group, rather than a duty completion one.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

In my instance, I work constantly 5-6 days a week and when I can sit down and play, I play, I don't expect to be carried, I don't expect to be handheld, I expect to learn like everyone else and have accepted that Savage as much as I'd love to do it, Time constraints of work schedule dictate that it's not happening, but I do have time to learn and farm EX content, I do have time to learn my job and get to a decent enough level with it...

I just can't do what I did at College where I could just no life whenever my course work was done or half term break.

Time is the reason we don't sit and look into perfecting at the macro level, because that requires a lot of time the average player cannot spare and sorry to say it hardcore players

You too one day will be in the same position, where time restrains what you can do and you too won't like people thinking you're too "lazy" to learn something either. That day comes for us all unfortunately and I say that as someone that was once a hardcore Raider that probably no lifed content in other games that some of you only saw at a fraction of what it used to be.

Savage and Ultimates are designed for you, they're designed for you to spend many a nights working out with your data the most effective and efficient way of clearing.

EXes are for us, the people that like a little bit more challenging content but don't have the time to go into the macro level.

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I think you'll find that gaming is no different from performing a job - some people are naturally good at it, while others are not. Automatically assuming that anyone who's even remotely decent at something is no-lifing it, is incredibly short sighted. A lot of people will likely perform twice as well as you with less than half the time invested, just like you will be better at certain things IRL than they are in similar fashion.

Reminds me of the times where people called me a no-life PvP'er in WoW, while I had about 150 arena matches played to get 2800 rating and they had 750 matches played to get 2100 rating. Flawless logic.

Bruh I've worked 40-50 hour weeks since 2017 and I still have more than enough time to learn my stuff and clear savage.

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Originally Posted by Michieltjuhh

"They want the rewards behind certain content, and don't want others to notice they didn't bother putting in what little effort it takes to perform at a level required to obtain it, instead having others carry them."

Unfortunately, that's how I see it, because people will abuse the hell out of a system where you can't be held accountable for performing horrible at your class. Not standing in the ouchies isn't very hard. Not standing in the ouchies while doing maintaining uptime, generally is.

I ask myself one simple question whenever I do content: would a group of exclusively me be capable of clearing this. If the answer is no, then I'll join a progress group, rather than a duty completion one.

I think you'll find that gaming is no different from performing a job - some people are naturally good at it, while others are not. Automatically assuming that anyone who's even remotely decent at something is no-lifing it, is incredibly short sighted. A lot of people will likely perform twice as well as you with less than half the time invested, just like you will be better at certain things IRL than they are in similar fashion.

Reminds me of the times where people called me a no-life PvP'er in WoW, while I had about 150 arena matches played to get 2800 rating and they had 750 matches played to get 2100 rating. Flawless logic.

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Not at all, there are people that are naturally good at a variety of videogames and have a talent for it and there are others that have to develop and hone their skillset over time.

It just so happens the people that pour hours upon hours to "get gud" happens to be a larger number in the genre than someone that picks up the game and can probably clear the majority of harder content within a couple of tries.

Which, if you're taking offense to the "hardcore" moniker, you completely missed what I was saying that the majority of "casuals" aren't bad players, they just don't have time to dedicate to nuance that is often required for the hardest content, being the macro level.

Whereas someone whom is naturally "gud" probably does have time to develop at the macro level as well...they are naturally good at the game so only need to work on one facet instead of multiple.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

Bruh I've worked 40-50 hour weeks since 2017 and I still have more than enough time to learn my stuff and clear savage.

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40-50 hour weeks? Aren't you lucky.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

It's not even for not for a want of trying and it's something as of false identification that "casuals" are given.

The largest demographic of players today are semi professional or professional employees that work a lot and dedicate what free time they can to enjoying whatever game it is they have chosen to play.

Josh Strife Hayes went into detail about how it's a large commodity that every developer aims to monopolise

In my instance, I work constantly 5-6 days a week and when I can sit down and play, I play, I don't expect to be carried, I don't expect to be handheld, I expect to learn like everyone else and have accepted that Savage as much as I'd love to do it, Time constraints of work schedule dictate that it's not happening, but I do have time to learn and farm EX content, I do have time to learn my job and get to a decent enough level with it...

I just can't do what I did at College where I could just no life whenever my course work was done or half term break.

Time is the reason we don't sit and look into perfecting at the macro level, because that requires a lot of time the average player cannot spare and sorry to say it hardcore players

You too one day will be in the same position, where time restrains what you can do and you too won't like people thinking you're too "lazy" to learn something either. That day comes for us all unfortunately and I say that as someone that was once a hardcore Raider that probably no lifed content in other games that some of you only saw at a fraction of what it used to be.

Savage and Ultimates are designed for you, they're designed for you to spend many a nights working out with your data the most effective and efficient way of clearing.

EXes are for us, the people that like a little bit more challenging content but don't have the time to go into the macro level.

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Yet most of my static have fulltime jobs. Yeah, we had to skip some nights because of unexpected work, but most of the time, they are able to make it. It is not impossible to have a fulltime job and be able to raid; sure you aren't going to world first, but that doesn't mean you can't spend a night or two each week doing 3 to 4 hours of raiding. Yes, there will be people who are too busy to raid, but that isn't the case for all full time workers.

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Originally Posted by Orieldis

If there's one thing WoW did right, it was allowing addons

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As someone who played WoW from vanilla to the end of Wrath my stance is as it was back then: lmao no.

Here's a fun anecdote from back in burning crusade that exemplify exactly why I've come to despise parsers;
Back in Burning Crusade I mained a hunter, and during an era where everyone was pushing really hard to change to the Beast Mastery spec, I was stubbornly refusing and sticking to Marksman because I liked it more, and blizzard pets were notoriously buggy during that time (never forget when leaving your pet out and taking the Kara teleporter would lead to it running through the whole dungeon to catch up, instead of teleporting, and causing a wipe when literally every mob showed up to kick your ass) so I liked having the disposable thing for extra DPS and as an off tank during easy content; but the idea of putting the majority of my damage weight into it was sketch at best. Especially since a lot of bosses weren't very pet friendly. I had prog gear, I knew my rotation perfectly - I knew the fights. So I get an invitation to join one of my server's upper rank guilds; the kind of guys who try for world first but never get it, basically. Their GM was also a hunter and boy oh boy did he love beast mastery. The test to get in was, of course, a DPS test to make sure I'm up to snuff and through the entire run he's telling me I should switch spec, that MM does less damage, etc. And then we get to the boss. The advantage of MM back in the day was that it was very good at burst damage, you would burn through a truly obscene amount of potions but you could do unholy amounts of damage if you were good; Mages would throw fits about this because thanks to misdirect and feign death, a hunter didn't have to watch their aggro near as much as they did and it was easy to top the charts. And so, when we did this boss; I topped the chart. And the GM of the guild I was applying to flipped out, accusing me of hacking the game and saying it was impossible for me to do more damage than him and that not only was I not getting into the guild, but he was going to tell everyone else that I was a cheater too so I couldn't get into any of the high end guilds on the server.

And as long winded as this has been - I feel it basically explains why I think parsers are dumb. They attract a crowd of people with the biggest, but most absolutely fragile, egos who piss on everyone else and take what is otherwise a fun experience (raiding) and make it suck because they just drag it down miserably with their brain worms. I don't care if you use a parser in private. I don't think anyone does, and if they do; they won't know. It's never the private parsers people take issue with. It's the loud clowns that ruin it all for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Discord is still third party software and all third party software is against TOS. Sorry.

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are you a console player? because *surprise* a web browser is also a third party software, if you are playing and browsing the forum at the same time then i will be obligated to report you

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Originally Posted by Yahallo

Yet most of my static have fulltime jobs. Yeah, we had to skip some nights because of unexpected work, but most of the time, they are able to make it. It is not impossible to have a fulltime job and be able to raid; sure you aren't going to world first, but that doesn't mean you can't spend a night or two each week doing 3 to 4 hours of raiding. Yes, there will be people who are too busy to raid, but that isn't the case for all full time workers.

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Oh absolutely agreed, but you said yourself it causes stops and pauses within your static which means you guys n gals likely already have pre-agreements in place and I think that's actually great.

However, for anyone that might rely on the PF and there are a lot, it can and does become a problem.

Heck I did make an attempt last tier but the immediately unwelcoming atmosphere of Savage PF compared to EX PF was enough to make me nope out of there and decide my time was better spent elsewhere than getting a headache as lil' timmy screams at Catalicious Grill over a mechanic they elected not to explain to them....

In a blind fresh learning party

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

Oh absolutely agreed, but you said yourself it causes stops and pauses within your static which means you guys n gals likely already have pre-agreements in place and I think that's actually great.

However, for anyone that might rely on the PF and there are a lot, it can and does become a problem.

Heck I did make an attempt last tier but the immediately unwelcoming atmosphere of Savage PF compared to EX PF was enough to make me nope out of there and decide my time was better spent elsewhere than getting a headache as lil' timmy screams at Catalicious Grill over a mechanic they elected not to explain to them....

In a blind fresh learning party

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Unless you are on the JP datacenter, I generally find PF Savage to be many times more difficult. There are no guarantees on the quality of players in PF, and on the other side of the spectrum to your problem are people who join a clear group when they are not ready for it. I think time would be better spent trying to find a static that fits with your schedule if possible.

The main issue with your statement I had was, "You too one day will be in the same position, where time restrains what you can do and you too won't like people thinking you're too "lazy" to learn something either. That day comes for us all unfortunately and I say that as someone that was once a hardcore Raider that probably no lifed content in other games that some of you only saw at a fraction of what it used to be."

It made it sound like you had to no life savage. However, there is generally plenty of time within a tier to clear a raid tier, even if doing it one night a week. You may have to use the catch up patch, but you'd still be able to do it.

That said, I wish more people copied the JP datacenters in this regard.

Yoshi-P is aware people run parsers, they are technically against ToS but as long as you don't advertise using them and weaponize them against other players then they can be overlooked. Ideally don't use them, or if you do then use them at your own discretion.