The Frontlines Premade issue has not been fixed.

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Originally Posted by Voorhees13

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Was originally going to call you out, but changed my mind. Feel free to read this instead. Someone very nicely posted this in another thread.

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Originally Posted by Palitutu

The survival of this mode has little to do with how good or bad it is, ultimately. What makes the frontline modes more or less successful is the easy availability with a roulette, short queuing times, long-term mount farming and very decent rewards (tomes, pvp currency, exp). Of course, some people just enjoy pvp. But most need a bait to get into it. Rival Wings would probably be just as popular as frontline if we had a Rival Wings Roulette that rotates the maps, same way than the frontline rou rotated modes. I wager that's what will happen, either that or it'll be added to frontline rous once GC affiliations have been canned.

That said, I am at a loss for word that there are people even trying to defend what is currently happening in frontline. That a specific number of players are exploiting a loophole in the system to ensure victory is the very definition of what cheating is. If the developers had intended for pre-made 24-men alliances to be a factor in frontline, they would let people queue as such. Clearly, they never intended for that. Essentially, what we're seeing right now is the equivalent of a professional team rigging the system to play against a team of amateurs and then trying to justify that what they did is fair play. It's not.

Any competent and respectable player, in any sport, esport or pvp environment, would look down upon such practices and the people doing it. A victory against your equals is something to be celebrated. Setting the game field so all the experienced players can stomp over the less experienced players is nothing short of pathetic.

PVP players often mourn that pvp is unpopular in FF14. That not enough people play it, that queues take forever. If you're participating in the current frontline disaster, you only need look at yourself as to why FF14 players dislike pvp. You make the experience miserable for everyone.

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I mean, feel free to call me out. A view with a semi logical reasoning does not equal a fact. I stated an opinion, as did they. PvP is for team oriented events imo. It's 72 players. I don't really care to argue semantics.

Should we stop allowing premades for dungeon because it's too good to have actual real tanks and healers do their job?
Should we stop allowing unsynced parties because not everyone has friends to do it?
Should we stop allowing "q syncs" and "premades" for the same reason?

This is an MMORPG. Aka you play with other people. PvP is intended to play "with" and "against" other people. So the post you quoted means zero to me. It does not change my view, my mind, or does anything to sway me at all. I'd like to have parties to play with and against if no one wants to learn how to play properly, not q up with a bunch of people who don't give a single you know what about learning how to pvp properly. If the environment was different, I would have a different opinion. But this is what I get so these are my thoughts on it.

**Edited**

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Originally Posted by Voorhees13

I mean, feel free to call me out. A view with a semi logical reasoning does not equal a fact. I stated an opinion, as did they. PvP is for team oriented events imo. It's 72 players. I don't really care to argue semantics.

Should we stop allowing premades for dungeon because it's too good to have actual real tanks and healers do their job?
Should we stop allowing unsynced parties because not everyone has friends to do it?
Should we stop allowing "q syncs" and "premades" for the same reason?

This is an MMORPG. Aka you play with other people. PvP is intended to play "with" and "against" other people. So the post you quoted means zero to me. It does not change my view, my mind, or does anything to sway me at all. I'd like to have parties to play with and against if no one wants to learn how to play properly, not q up with a bunch of people who don't give a single you know what about learning how to pvp properly. If the environment was different, I would have a different opinion. But this is what I get so these are my thoughts on it.

**Edited**

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I think you should have parties. But I also think the system should have a matchmaking algorithm. But SE que system is a little weak or maybe the pool of players is too small. Or the scoring or modes need to be redesigned.



The idea that because your team wins all the time they know how to play properly. The more I see the complaint. The more I want to use

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Originally Posted by Voorhees13

wanting to be carried

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But for the side that is against any sort of fair matchmaking system. OK, fair is a stretch as fair as SE system can make it. Which at this point is random.

I Freelance quite often. It's always the same story. I already stated this. But feel free to break down sentences to suit your view.

However I agree that matchmaking is crap in SE. I don't want to steamroll teams. I want to play competitively. But FL is a giant meme at this point which can be fun but also frustrating.

I'm down for premade against premades 100% for FL even if it's just a 24 man.

Hell I'd be down for forced freelance 72 man and premade 24 mans.

But forced freelance for the crap I've seen in Flames and Adders who refuse to listen?

Hard pass.

Don't take away my ability to play with and against friends and force me into toxic teams who don't want to play or learn. I don't care if you suck, if you try and want to learn all good even if you never improve. But being hardheaded and wanting them carries is just annoying. Deleting my ability to play with friends, also annoying. My pvp friend list is significantly larger than "4" and 4 does jack against 24 if your team refuses to listen.

**Edit**

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Originally Posted by Voorhees13

Thread title should be changed to:

The people not wanting to learn, wanting to be carried, afking, not wanting to coordinate, not wanting to play as a team, complaining about "premades" when the issue is most don't want to play together and learn, wanting things easy, refusing to listen to callouts, and generally being an uncooperative dodo has not been fixed.

Guess that title is too long though.

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Yo have care lil buddy they ban for posts like that now, kappa.

Really? FFXIV in 2019. RIP the future of free speech. Thanks bud.

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Originally Posted by Voorhees13

I Freelance quite often. It's always the same story. I already stated this. But feel free to break down sentences to suit your view.

However I agree that matchmaking is crap in SE. I don't want to steamroll teams. I want to play competitively. But FL is a giant meme at this point which can be fun but also frustrating.

I'm down for premade against premades 100% for FL even if it's just a 24 man.

Hell I'd be down for forced freelance 72 man and premade 24 mans.

But forced freelance for the crap I've seen in Flames and Adders who refuse to listen?

Hard pass.

Don't take away my ability to play with and against friends and force me into toxic teams who don't want to play or learn. I don't care if you suck, if you try and want to learn all good even if you never improve. But being hardheaded and wanting them carries is just annoying. Deleting my ability to play with friends, also annoying. My pvp friend list is significantly larger than "4" and 4 does jack against 24 if your team refuses to listen.

**Edit**

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A compromise of adding 24s back for premades, sounds reasonable. Also would it really be that hard 3 of the 4 maps already had a 24 man system in place.



I do think you miss the point though of going down to 4 against 24, or at least what I thought the point was. They didn't want one party affecting the outcome of a match with other players who que casually.

My point is that, that mentality is ridiculous in general. PvP is competitive in nature and for people who pour hours of time into practicing and learning shouldn't be punished by people who que casually just for a one time reward. I mean if that's the idea, the people who que casually get their reward, change the system of pvp through complaints, and those of us who que daily and play for hours specifically for pvp are punished because people don't want to learn is my specific point.

I doubt they will ever add 24s for premades, so instead I have to vent about the fact that I play mostly one main mode: pvp and that people want to break even further because they don't really want to play more than casually.

I do get your point, I just strongly disagree with it. PvP should be competitive as it is in every other game. Just because a casual player wants a mount doesn't mean pvp should be wrecked to allow that mentality. Its like me complaining that I want the mentor roulette mount but don't want to do the extremes to unlock mentor roulette. If more people actually made an effort to learn and listen to callouts and improve themselves, things would be better. I don't want to que for 1 hour [As Freelancer mind you] and end up on a team who does nothing. I'm on for hours on end, waiting for a q to pop, and then watching people afk, ignore calls, and do nothing and then blame "q syncs". Idk, that's my take on it.

I for one, as someone who practices and plays a lot, wouldn't want to be stomped by casuals who are mount farming just because I took time out to organize a team and learn to play cooperatively. I mean, can't every GC do that? Nah, they just jump Mael because they either want to be carried or Adders and Flames [at least on Crystal] refuse to listen most of the time.

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Originally Posted by Voorhees13

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I do get your point, I just strongly disagree with it. PvP should be competitive as it is in every other game. Just because a casual player wants a mount doesn't mean pvp should be wrecked to allow that mentality. Its like me complaining that I want the mentor roulette mount but don't want to do the extremes to unlock mentor roulette. If more people actually made an effort to learn and listen to callouts and improve themselves, things would be better. I don't want to que for 1 hour [As Freelancer mind you] and end up on a team who does nothing. I'm on for hours on end, waiting for a q to pop, and then watching people afk, ignore calls, and do nothing and then blame "q syncs". Idk, that's my take on it.

I for one, as someone who practices and plays a lot, wouldn't want to be stomped by casuals who are mount farming just because I took time out to organize a team and learn to play cooperatively. I mean, can't every GC do that? Nah, they just jump Mael because they either want to be carried or Adders and Flames [at least on Crystal] refuse to listen most of the time.

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I hate to break it to you but the "queue syncs" are making FL PvP the opposite of competitive with one team stomping all over the other two. Premades going against other premades, that's competitive, but premades stomping pugs is the opposite.

Also, the words "stomped by casuals" is something that never happens, especially if you're a great PvPer, because you can literally outplay casuals due to your skill and experience. Your team isn't finishing on zero points because casuals stomped you that hard... that only happens when a premade stomps casuals.

Personally, I'd prefer a hard fought win over being on a team that stomps the others. Sure, it gets you one win towards a mount, but isn't it just... boring? I'm only playing FL on JP servers until NA gets decides to git gud wake up and realise that what they're doing isn't healthy for the game and it'll turn off people from playing with the lack of fun that occurs in a stomp, especially if you're on the receiving end.

Forced freelancer? I guess that'll make great PvPers play in parties again and go up against each other for fun games of minimal stomp chance. I guess my NA alt will wait until then to play.

And forced syncs will fix this? Nah. It'll just make crap and disorganized teams that will make the situation worse. A 4 man party can't do squat to fix a bad team against 48 others. First it's "bots ruined pvp" then it was "8 man parties ruined pvp" and now it's "q syncs ruin pvp". Next it will be forced syncs followed by "multiple 4 man parties ended up on GC XYZ and ruined pvp". Point is, pvp has always been broken the way its set up. However every "fix" just separates people more. People complain when things are hard, there will always be an excuse.