PETITION: Regarding FINAL FANTASY XIV Steam Version (Mar. 8)

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03-12-2019, 11:21 PM
Carighan

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

they'll say there's nothing that they can do, and you should buy it from the $quare€nix store directly.

And I would. If it wouldn't reset my account and force me to start over!

IMO they should really offer a one-time chance to change the account type over. Either way even, sure, if someone prefers it through Steam let them. Or just break down the barriers, plenty other games like Warframe don't have these restrictions.
03-12-2019, 11:26 PM
KDSilver

Can someone explain me please ?

If I don't want to deal with Steam anymore and buy the windows SHB licence (+all expensions), it won't work on my mogstation account?
If I understood corectly, making the "mistake" to start the game on Steam means you have to be stuck with the Steam licence forever unless you're okay to loose everything?
03-12-2019, 11:30 PM
Nora_of_Mira

Quote:

Originally Posted by KDSilver

Can someone explain me please ?

If I don't want to deal with Steam anymore and buy the windows SHB licence (+all expensions), it won't work on my mogstation account?

Yep. steam and PC versions cant be on the same service account (Mogstation account).

Quote:

Originally Posted by KDSilver

If I understood corectly, making the "mistake" to start the game on Steam means you have to be stuck with the Steam licence forever unless you're okay to loose everything?

Yep. Same as above. Though everyone keeps saying "stuck" as if it really changes anything. I willingly bought the Steam version 4+ years ago and havent had any issues.
03-13-2019, 12:01 AM
Eli85

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nixxe

Any contractual issue is still an issue with SE, as they had to agree to the contract in the first place and are responsible for any consequences of that contract that adversely affect their customers.

Sure, they can't escape that, but any sort of petition will not change the contract. But let's not also escape from the responsibility that the customers have. Those who don't like this willingly bought from Steam. When you make a purchase on Steam you agree to their terms and conditions -- including consenting to a change such as this. If someone was not OK with Steam making any change that they wish, they should not have bought from Steam in the first place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayer2015

It becomes an issue with SE when they do not allow the transfer of character data from a Steam account to a non-Steam PC version. I would have no problem with repurchasing the game if I could maintain all my progress.

It really isn't that simple. Valve gets a cut of every purchase made on Steam, which is why they require you to buy expansions on Steam. If S-E and Valve are contractually bound (highly likely) then S-E offering the option you suggest breaks the contract. Seeing as S-E doesn't want to get sued, you can ask for it until you're blue in the face, but it still won't happen.
03-13-2019, 12:20 AM
linay

I don't know what SE is contractually obligated to do, but when I had difficulty with logging in to ESO via Steam, I bought the non-Steam PC version and continued playing with my existing character. SE should be able to do that.
03-13-2019, 02:00 AM
LunaP

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eli85

Sure, they can't escape that, but any sort of petition will not change the contract. But let's not also escape from the responsibility that the customers have. Those who don't like this willingly bought from Steam. When you make a purchase on Steam you agree to their terms and conditions -- including consenting to a change such as this. If someone was not OK with Steam making any change that they wish, they should not have bought from Steam in the first place.

Since you keep reiterating this, I'll continue to reiterate as well, that the policy that steam is enforcing is simply adding a precheck in order to enforce the steam client, again, the actual account info is tied with SE and can be updated so long as they allow the change.

Telling people they're screwed and/or stupid for not knowing things upon purchase because they shoulda read the entire contract in the ToS is a moot point, the issue being discussed is a request for SE to allow people to port over, NOT to simply bash and complain with 0 proposed options etc.

Going to Steam and complaining WILL NOT do anything, as people would be redirected to SE within a month of them finally getting their ticket answered.

Quote:

It really isn't that simple. Valve gets a cut of every purchase made on Steam, which is why they require you to buy expansions on Steam.

Purchases, NOT subscriptions. They've already obtained their cut from previously purchased expansions.

Quote:

If S-E and Valve are contractually bound (highly likely) then S-E offering the option you suggest breaks the contract. Seeing as S-E doesn't want to get sued, you can ask for it until you're blue in the face, but it still won't happen.

Show me one game that ever had this enforced through steam. The profits are through actual game/expansion purchases, while in the account info and everything is bound to SE as it is their property.

Example: User purchases Stormblood from Steam, steam gets its cut however all information is still stored on the SE servers. User now needs a PC license because this is an SE REQUIREMENT, and the purchase is now made per swap. NOW the user is allowed to access their data on SE systems since they now contain a NEW license through SE vs Steam.

Steam's policy to push is to increase their reported numbers, for games going through their clients, vs going around it. People are in business to make money, customers are 2nd. Hell, based on your devil's advocate to this, we could also say that SE and Steam were doing this to improve numbers on both ends, i.e People get wind of this, SE / Steam do nothing, people rebuy and start over on the PC client and SE profits from new keys/jump potions etc of people clamming to get their progress back.

As wild as that sounds, (and highly doubtful) it would be beyond messed up. Just because you think nothing will happen and people are just screwed and need to move on, doesn't mean they shouldn't try. To reiterate AGAIN, this is a precheck cursor, and the game keys are statistical information utilized by steam, if a user were to repurchase/acquire these through SE via the PC method, without breaking any laws they would be able to access their personal information since again the keys are the access ( per expansion / content ) but ultimately the information (character data/settings) are owned by SE. The only main caveat here is that users would more than likely need to repurchase ALL keys from ARR -> Shadowbringers to be allowed to do this to cover ANY possible legal measure in between. WHICH I"M ALL FOR.

Quote:

Originally Posted by linay

I don't know what SE is contractually obligated to do, but when I had difficulty with logging in to ESO via Steam, I bought the non-Steam PC version and continued playing with my existing character. SE should be able to do that.

This is possible since the only diff is a specific entry within the user database for a user, which would be on SE's end to begin with, its just now they will be enforcing a precheck prior. So long as they allowed an update to this, this entire process would be feasible.
03-13-2019, 02:07 AM
Nixxe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eli85

Sure, they can't escape that, but any sort of petition will not change the contract. But let's not also escape from the responsibility that the customers have. Those who don't like this willingly bought from Steam. When you make a purchase on Steam you agree to their terms and conditions -- including consenting to a change such as this. If someone was not OK with Steam making any change that they wish, they should not have bought from Steam in the first place.

There was no indication in 2014 that buying your key from Steam was fundamentally different than buying it from any other retailer.
03-13-2019, 02:25 AM
LunaP

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nixxe

There was no indication in 2014 that buying your key from Steam was fundamentally different than buying it from any other retailer.

This, back then people mainly bought from steam as it as just an easier way of safeguarding all your product keys in 1 spot, many of which still accessed the client directly vs utilizing the steam client.
03-13-2019, 04:12 AM
Eli85

Quote:

Originally Posted by LunaP

Telling people they're screwed and/or stupid for not knowing things upon purchase because they shoulda read the entire contract in the ToS is a moot point, the issue being discussed is a request for SE to allow people to port over, NOT to simply bash and complain with 0 proposed options etc.

It really isn't a moot point. If you agree to conditions, then the conditions turns out to be something that you don't like, you have no one but yourself to blame, and to be angry about it is childish.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LunaP

Going to Steam and complaining WILL NOT do anything, as people would be redirected to SE within a month of them finally getting their ticket answered.

This, right here, is why purchases should never be made with Steam. But be that as it may, players affected by this bought from Steam, knowing full well (if they read the Steam Terms of Service) that this could happen one day, and many others of its kind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LunaP

Purchases, NOT subscriptions. They've already obtained their cut from previously purchased expansions.

I never disputed this. Also it's for future expansions. Why, if Valve / Steam is not legally bound to do so, would they not want players in their ecosystem? They'll get a cut for Shadowbringers and the expansions that follow. There is still a significant amount of money to be made by Valve / Steam.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LunaP

Show me one game that ever had this enforced through steam. The profits are through actual game/expansion purchases, while in the account info and everything is bound to SE as it is their property.

Example: User purchases Stormblood from Steam, steam gets its cut however all information is still stored on the SE servers. User now needs a PC license because this is an SE REQUIREMENT, and the purchase is now made per swap. NOW the user is allowed to access their data on SE systems since they now contain a NEW license through SE vs Steam.

Steam's policy to push is to increase their reported numbers, for games going through their clients, vs going around it. People are in business to make money, customers are 2nd. Hell, based on your devil's advocate to this, we could also say that SE and Steam were doing this to improve numbers on both ends, i.e People get wind of this, SE / Steam do nothing, people rebuy and start over on the PC client and SE profits from new keys/jump potions etc of people clamming to get their progress back.

I don't have to show you any other game. Players bought the game from Steam. When you use Steam, you agree to their Terms of Service, which allows them to add these pre-checks and whatever else. There is no valid ground for people to complain. If you don't like this, it's your fault for buying from Steam. Just don't do it again and complain to Steam. Bringing it up here, to S-E, is less than vain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LunaP

As wild as that sounds, (and highly doubtful) it would be beyond messed up. Just because you think nothing will happen and people are just screwed and need to move on, doesn't mean they shouldn't try. To reiterate AGAIN, this is a precheck cursor, and the game keys are statistical information utilized by steam, if a user were to repurchase/acquire these through SE via the PC method, without breaking any laws they would be able to access their personal information since again the keys are the access ( per expansion / content ) but ultimately the information (character data/settings) are owned by SE. The only main caveat here is that users would more than likely need to repurchase ALL keys from ARR -> Shadowbringers to be allowed to do this to cover ANY possible legal measure in between. WHICH I"M ALL FOR.

People need to accept that this likely will not happen. I get it, ESO allows it, probably because they were allowed to, legally. S-E has not allowed it at any point in the past, and not with their announcement. Why is that? Logically, you would think they would, as it would mean more money in their pockets. Seems like a slam dunk, right? Well, it's not, because, in all likelihood, their contract with Valve / Steam very likely prohibits it. I mean, why else would they say no to free money? I'm not for screwing over players, but when you look at the facts objectively, petitions like this just breed false hope.
03-13-2019, 05:31 AM
LunaP

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eli85

It really isn't a moot point. If you agree to conditions, then the conditions turns out to be something that you don't like, you have no one but yourself to blame, and to be angry about it is childish.

As per others have put out, this was not part of the intial condition, + yes it is a moot people to call everyone retarded because something changed 5 years later and they simply wanted to voice their opinion in hopes of something being said. The angry childish person here is you since you seem to really be adamant about shutting this down for everyone, why are you so heated up?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eli85

This, right here, is why purchases should never be made with Steam. But be that as it may, players affected by this bought from Steam, knowing full well (if they read the Steam Terms of Service) that this could happen one day, and many others of its kind.

It feels like you're grasping at straws here, reiterating the same statement over and over and ignoring whats being said, why is that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eli85

I never disputed this. Also it's for future expansions.

But you did, you keep assuming that subscriptions go to Steam when they got to SE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eli85

Why, if Valve / Steam is not legally bound to do so, would they not want players in their ecosystem?

Noone said they didn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eli85

They'll get a cut for Shadowbringers and the expansions that follow. There is still a significant amount of money to be made by Valve / Steam.

Yes, thank you for reading what I said finally on EXPANSIONS, NOT SUBS, what is the argument here then?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eli85

I don't have to show you any other game.

Then stop arguing if you want to pull the " I don't have to show proof you people are just dumb stop complaining and suck it up" You're being a troll at this point. If you're going to argue something and name shame then at least have some good information to do so vs treating this like an aeris death.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eli85

Players bought the game from Steam. When you use Steam, you agree to their Terms of Service, which allows them to add these pre-checks and whatever else. There is no valid ground for people to complain. If you don't like this, it's your fault for buying from Steam. Just don't do it again and complain to Steam. Bringing it up here, to S-E, is less than vain.

Beating a dead horse, this is literally the only thing you keep bringing up lol, now u just took what I said in the previous statement and added it, but given your context I don't think you understand at all what that means. Do you actually have anything to argue or is this the "childish" notion you're referring to? {Please help me understand}.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eli85

People need to accept that this likely will not happen.

You need to accept that this is a public rally, not a 1 way street, if its not to happen, thats up to SE to come here personally and state that, not for you to come in angrily throwing a tantrum that people happen to have opinions and concerns about things and are attempting to rally together in the hopes of being heard in an otherwise mostly ignored part of the forum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eli85

I get it, ESO allows it, probably because they were allowed to, legally.

I don't think you do because you keep contradicting yourself here, you're unsure so you're saying probably but then you're 100% certain when you're saying SE like you know something that you're probably also not going to share because you "don't have to because we're stupid"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eli85

S-E has not allowed it at any point in the past, and not with their announcement.

Except its been the normal means until now with this official announcement, as far as access has been concerned, and they have done this in the past as well but for platforms, re read my previous statements on why please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eli85

Why is that? Logically, you would think they would, as it would mean more money in their pockets. Seems like a slam dunk, right? Well, it's not, because, in all likelihood, their contract with Valve / Steam very likely prohibits it.

Again with the maybe's, but 100% certain, but also probably, you really should stick with volatile information, I feel at this point you keep repeating this over and over in hopes that people will fight you and take things out of context just to get the thread closed, but at the same time would definitely love to hear why you're so upset at people for concerns?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eli85

I mean, why else would they say no to free money? I'm not for screwing over players, but when you look at the facts objectively, petitions like this just breed false hope.

Tons of reasons that we could sit down and discuss if you can get past the "people are stupid" phase of your argument.

For one, up till recently it wasn't as huge of a cry on the forums, and came in small bursts of a small thread here and there. Fast forward we now have years of data of outages, downtimes and downsides of utilizing steam to warrant a move (at least a big one), and with this final push going forward. Heck the first blow wasn't until the entire HW Collectors limited edition physical copy for PC only, which annoyed a lot of Steam users, but again , given how bad the forums were / are as far as feeback, its spread out on the internet to sites like reddit, gamesfaq, steam, and other forums, many of which I'm sure go unread. Even now its still spread out but there's a higher media coverage for it, so this is why you're now seeing a LARGER response, which will probably continue to rise as long as people become aware.

The biggest issue we're facing outside of this is just how many have actually moved OFF of the forums and are on reddit, if they'd chime in here as well, since I cannot 100% say if SE bothers to read their threads, then things would definitely boom. We're now looking at a a much larger picture to which people are actually coming together for a just cause, albeit you may feel like its a lost cause but that's your personal opinion and not a substantiated statement that we should just give up and shut the thread down. Please stop calling people stupid,childish and angry when you're the only person here bashing everyone else for the intended reason of this thread lol. Thanks <3

Can we get back on topic now?

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