Have to write one more reply because it's related to my previous reply. Still have to get to talking about words, but it's complicated topic and need to be well-thought well-written. Probably I'll get to it tomorrow.
As for your view about my sentiment, Dreadnaught, I hope you can reconsider that after reading my previous reply. I am not just going by the rules or guidelines of the community or the game. But it does have an emotional impact on me due to the explained reasons from previous page.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadnought
Also, I am not sure what you meant by PCs personality, but as for judging players in the game only by their performance, I shall present you my reasons why I do not do so, in the specific case.
First off, I do not know the person, hence it is impossible for me to rely on his personality to make a judgment. I have also never partied with him, so I do not have the slightest idea of how he performs in battle. Maybe if I have a chance to know him, I might change my view. But for now, and even if I do change my view later, it is a fact that the name gave me a negative first impression about the person. So, more likely, I would never get to know him, his personality, or his battle performance in this case.
Now, to move onto the next point in general (not directed to Dreadnaught’s quote);
Like many people have already stated in their replies on this thread, they can’t help but feel that a person who would use offensive names might have a bad attitude or rude personalities to match their name. If nothing else, words you choose to use (and naming one’s character also is the word choice of the person) normally reflects your way of thinking, or your current mood/attitude. Angry people use angry words, cheerful people use cheerful words, positive people use positive words, and negative people use negative words, etc. Words cannot describe everything in you, but they do, more often than not, describe a part of you.
You might call it a bias, but it is just natural that people, namely me, would want to avoid anything or anyone that they think have a chance of hurting them in some way. I avoid rude people because they are rude. I don’t like to be around rude people. I do not enjoy seeing/hearing insults or vulgarity. It spoils my fun and is distasteful. That’s all my personal preference, which is also based on personal past experience.
For instance, someone may say a monkey is cute and cuddly. I will say otherwise. Monkeys are scary. This is due to my own experience. I used to get bitten by a monkey. I had to get 3 rabies shots and 3 tetanus shots from that incident. Other people can be like, oh you silly, this monkey won’t bite you like that one, or, come on, grow up, don’t be scared, or, come pet it and take a photo, it’s tamed. But that will not change my fear of monkeys, and nor will I approach one.
Again, this is all psychological, and not everyone feels the same. Not everyone has gone through the same experience. It is possible to not agree with other person who feels strongly towards something, but I would expect those who don’t understand to at least be considerate enough to not say it’s just a stupid fear or that I am such a crybaby.
Having said all the above in reply to Dreadnaught and to other people in general, I think I’ve adequately demonstrated my disagreement to this statement. It is not the society who tells people what is offensive. Personal experience and personal preference plays a big role in this. And for me, context is also important. When I talk among friends, telling them my story of angry encounter, I may use mild swear words in my storytelling. However, if I am to tell it to my parents, or teacher, those swear words would be omitted for propriety.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavani
Retaining one’s conduct and politeness isn’t always restricted by the society’s standard of offensiveness, either, but rather by audience and one’s self-awareness, and most of all, by whether the person cares or does not care about public. Let me tell you a true story that happened to me the other day.
I was at a Japanese sushi bar (it’s not a real bar, but a small shop stall with a big counter and stools so everyone sits in line instead of many tables for individual group of customers) with my bro and his GF. The three of us ate while having trivial chitchat with the waitress and the cooks. When we’re almost finished eating, another customer started talking too, and loudly. He repeatedly teased one of the cooks (a guy) about making women pregnant, because that cook talked to my bro about salmon and salmon roes (pregnant salmon, of course). He then proceeded to talked about how he was annoyed by such and such people back home. All the time he kept using impolite choices of words. Like maybe using 2 swear words per sentence. Those are just mild swear words and are somewhat acceptable by general public. People use it a lot, as in commonly heard anywhere. But to use them repeatedly, loudly, in public, to unfamiliar audience, and especially when we do not want to listen to him, was rude in my opinion.
We paid our bill and left the scene because my bro no longer enjoyed the dinner.
Is he a bad person? I can’t tell. And nope, I wouldn’t want to get to know him better just to figure it out.
Is he an undesirable company? Oh yes, for me he is. It was extremely unpleasant to be near him, not only because he’s impolite, intrusive, and inconsiderate towards other customers, but also because I find his excessive use of swearing annoying and offensive. He didn't stop his loud story-telling even after we left. He probably wasn't aware, didn't get our hint, or simply did not care what other people feel about him.
Other people might ignore him, and police will not arrest him. Passer-by might think he's spicy in his storytelling. Society wouldn't ban him because he only used mild swear words in his storytelling, not to offend someone in specific. Nope it’s not the society who tells me what is offensive. Each person, even in same society, has their own variation on definition of what's offensive. Each person, even from similar background, can tolerate different things to different degrees.
What would you do if you THINK you see inappropriate name?
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11-10-2011, 12:45 AMAleczan
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11-10-2011, 01:21 AMdarkstarpoet1
here's the problem with looking at a word without knowing the connotation and taking it as rude.
there was a btn on my server named "Black Dude". first time i seen him i thought at first glance it was rude to be walking around with that name and using his scythe cutting up cotton(that was the first time i seen him). after talking with the guy, instead of running to report them, it turns out there was nothing rude at all meant and the guy is actually quite nice.
some people want to hold each other to their standards for names and words when we all live in different areas and each area has its own specific set of unwritten rules of what is allowed and what is not. i live in the south and the word redneck for example is used alot and not meant in a bad way, but in other places it would be meant rudely. in your area calling someone one would be an insult, but if someone here said it you may look at it as insulting and go to report them.
i remember a few years ago tiger woods caught all kinds of public backlash over saying his putting was spazzing out or something like that over in europe. it is a word here with no negative connotation, but come to find out over there is a very negative word about the gay community. there is no way to go through the list of every country/region and find out what words are considered bad to use.
we hang out with people that have common beliefs and can be ourselves around. quite frankly, if i feel i have to become someone i'm not to be around you because of a fear i may offend you in some way then i will not be hanging around with you anymore than i will some person that is insulting and rude in general.
if i say something that is racial or insult directed at a person or group i would expect to be called out for it, but that is not how i am. i am a construction worker by trade and i can promise you i use words alot worse than di**head daily and will continue to do so. if you don't like it don't hang out with me. in different fields of work and different areas different types of wording are considered acceptable. i am not going to attempt to change myself to suit your wants. -
11-10-2011, 02:05 AMDragonThis is the bottom-line to the issue. There's not a single person out there that won't be offended: the difference is, are you able to handle being offended? That is what maturity is about - being able to handle the things you do NOT like and most importantly it means being able to shrug off the things that offend you the most. You can let things hurt you or you can bulk up and be mature about it so you can prove you're better than them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crica
Right. I am going to judge people on the spot, and if I'm proven wrong about that judgment, for better or worse, then that's just going to be how it is and I'll apologize - whether to them or myself, I'll be the one to make that judgment.Quote:
Originally Posted by ispano
People that curse use cursing to amplify their points and even to weed out certain types of people from agreeing with them. I'm an Anarchist, and yes I will pick and choose who can or can't support my ideals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowen
It only does so because of the belief that government grants 'rights', as opposed the Enlightenment idea that rights come from the Individual which means the government has no right to do/enforce that which an Individual may not, as John Locke advocated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowyne
Whose linkshell was it? If that couple owned the linkshell, people were wrong to complain; if not, then why didn't the owner do anything? Quite simple, really. You come into my house, you play by my rules. No different than if I come into your house, I play by your rules.Quote:
Still, people easily use that as an excuse. It often leads to the attitude of, "I can be as rude as I want, because freedom of speech allows me to say anything."
In fact, one of my first linkshells in FFXI fell apart because of this very issue. There were two people (bf/gf) who insisted on spewing vulgarities across linkshell chat on a daily basis. Jokes about monkey rape and things that made our eyes bleed. And if you asked them to quit, they would laugh and say, "Aww, did I offend your delicate sensitivities?" So, it got to the point people stopped speaking up about it. Everyone just started leaving the linkshell.
Yes, you have the freedom to speak your mind. But also, as an adult, and a decent human being, should you not respect others enough to consider how it will affect them? Just because you can do something, should you?
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11-10-2011, 02:13 AMMolly_Millions
this should settle the debate, check the TOS
http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...seragreement_eQuote:
3.3 Profanity and Offensive Language. You may not use profanity or any language that a reasonable person would find offensive. The Game is for players aged 13 and older. You agree to behave accordingly.
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11-10-2011, 02:18 AMispanoNow you're going to get the people saying "what's reasonable" In truth there's no way to know, but any sane, thinking person should be able to figure out what they mean by that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Molly_Millions
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11-10-2011, 02:21 AMMolly_Millionsit's worded that way intentionally, so if somebody is offended they should report it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ispano
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11-10-2011, 04:05 AMYves
Totally loving the fact that some people are working with actual philosophy here! I mean, come on - how many times on these forums do you actually get people citing Locke, Bentham (in principle), and Kant?!
What seems to be emerging is a consensus that most people are circling around the idea that environment dictates ethics. An outstanding example is given with Tiger Woods and his spaz comment - no big deal in the US but a huge issue in the EU areas. So the questions that should be addressed are the following:
1. What ought to be the acceptable environment in an MMO world that merges multiple cultures, lifestyles, and moral norms?
Everyone has already agreed (for the most part) that directly offensive and vulgar names, done in an extreme fashion, fall under the category of "ought not." However, the above-question leaves a lot of interpretation. I am really interested to see not just where people fall but, in particular, why they arrive at that conclusion.
Also, this question segues nicely into the idea that SE has stated they are working on continent/language specific servers.
Really, really interesting stuff from people. -
11-10-2011, 05:09 AMLavaniPeople are a product of society, that is to say, the person we become is directly influenced by society. Society is composed of the following institutions; Religion, education, government, media, family and economy. So your personal experiences and preferences are directly influenced by society. Your family try's to teach you to uphold certain values they feel are important as does your affiliation (or lack of) to a specific religion. Anything we experience falls under these institutions and our ideas and behavior are shaped by the experiences we have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleczan
Those words you omit have been socially constructed to be "offensive". Not every society is the same, and some words you find offensive may not be offensive to everyone and vice versa.
Here are some real life name examples (that I have come across) that consist, or sound like "offensive" words:
Dick is used as a first name for a man.
Boner is the last name of a person I have met.
My 8th grade math teacher had the last name of Gaylord.
So if a man has the name of Dick Boner, who am I to demand he change his name because I find those words to be offensive? -
11-10-2011, 05:14 AMMolly_Millions
The TOS spells out pretty clearly what is appropriate. If someone in an MMO names their character Dick Boner, or Mike Hunt, it's pretty obvious what they are going for with those names. This is aside from the fact that I actually know a guy named Mike Hunt in real life. Let me put it this way, the morality of any given act lies not with the action itself, but in the intention of the person committing that action.
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11-10-2011, 05:17 AMispanoExcept this person's real name isn't part of this Virtual World. ie a world where SE makes the rules and Free Speech does not apply. You also choose your own name, it's not chosen for you at or near birth. I understand the point you're trying to make, but that's not all there is to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavani