What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

Stranger of Paradise was actually quite good. It's a shame we were never granted the opportunity to have our character react like Jack to Venat's deceptive schemes and lies.

---

That scene where he just walks away while putting in earbuds would have made the MSQ about 100x better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VentVanitas

Don't know why CBU3 thought the questing formula from XIV was so good they had to completely reuse it in their brand new game.

---

This also takes away all the excuses of "Quest design is that way cause of spaghetti code" - no, the quest design is this way because CBU3 genuinely thinks their quests are good, so good that they had to take their already below standard mmo quests and put them into a single player game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shinkuno

This also takes away all the excuses of "Quest design is that way cause of spaghetti code" - no, the quest design is this way because CBU3 genuinely thinks their quests are good, so good that they had to take their already below standard mmo quests and put them into a single player game.

---

"Do our laundry!" Quest updated: Press the button on 100 different piles of clothes and then return.

FFXIV quest design is the worst i can imagine... and they think it's good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shinkuno

This also takes away all the excuses of "Quest design is that way cause of spaghetti code" - no, the quest design is this way because CBU3 genuinely thinks their quests are good, so good that they had to take their already below standard mmo quests and put them into a single player game.

---

I wonder if that's why there's this 'sudden' sensitivity on Yoshi's part towards criticism - 16 didn't perform as well as SE expected by all appearances. Seems like they're begging for a repeat, heedless of the lessons they claimed they learned in one of the earlier Rising events:

https://i.imgur.com/Bx64yzB.png

I'd just like more visible and meaningful engagement with regular players. Sending out a survey designed to gather some deeper feedback in regards to the future direction of the game would be a reliable metric - because as it stands, FFXIV and FFXVI very much feel like games designed largely for social media engagement and reactions first and foremost.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

FFXIV and FFXVI very much feel like games designed largely for social media engagement and reactions first and foremost.

---

....because they are Story Driven and Narritive Focused?
Idk, this was a weird read to me, thinking a game is designed for Reactions and Social Media, as if there is no gameplay or videogame there.
Of course, what people like are different, but your post here just sounded kind of weird.

Some posters do have a habit of - perhaps deliberately - reading into even reasonable posts as if they're some strangely alien take no matter the subject matter, I've found.

I think Endwalker would have been much better if it were written to follow the established logical narrative progression and world building instead of banking on 'feels' that simply don't hold up under scrutiny.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

Some posters do have a habit of - perhaps deliberately - reading into even reasonable posts as if they're some strangely alien take no matter the subject matter, I've found.

I think Endwalker would have been much better if it were written to follow the established logical narrative progression and world building instead of banking on 'feels' that simply don't hold up under scrutiny.

---

I think what they're doing is considered a strawman fallacy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

Some posters do have a habit of - perhaps deliberately - reading into even reasonable posts as if they're some strangely alien take no matter the subject

---

You said

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

as it stands, FFXIV and FFXVI very much feel like games designed largely for social media engagement and reactions first and foremost.

---

Thats what Im replying to. Its really not that deep.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ReynTime

I think what they're doing is considered a strawman fallacy.

---

Its not a Strawman if its exactly what they said.
But its really not that deep, just found that part of the post weird. Moving on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

....because they are Story Driven and Narritive Focused?
Idk, this was a weird read to me, thinking a game is designed for Reactions and Social Media, as if there is no gameplay or videogame there.
Of course, what people like are different, but your post here just sounded kind of weird.

---

Story driven and narrative focused does not mean you need to have spectacle, "shock value" or "muh emotions" moments that seem specifically designed so terminally online people get to them and immediately post about it on Twitter or Reddit, especially when they break your universe's own internal logic or use cheap tricks to pull on your heartstrings.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Absurdity

when they break your universe's own internal logic or use cheap tricks to pull on your heartstrings.

---

Ok see, this is understandable, because as much as I personally loved Endwalker, I am there with people who criticize Ultima Thule. Because this is very much the case.
Or of course Y'shtolas Fake Deaths.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Absurdity

Story driven and narrative focused does not mean you need to have spectacle, "shock value" or "muh emotions" moments that seem specifically designed so terminally online people get to them and immediately post about it on Twitter or Reddit

---

People will do that even if the game wasnt made to get you all emotionally Excited, so I think this post is kind of silly.
And of course no game "Needs" it, but its just how they decided to tell their story, which a good many of us will agree, is flawed.
But hey, some people still enjoyed it and resonated with it. So its just different strokes for different folks.

I don't think it matters if that'd happen anyway, nor do I agree that the post in question is 'silly'. It certainly wouldn't occur to the same extent if the game wasn't increasingly retconning large swathes of the established world building in order to tie absolutely everything to the player character and their immediate circle of allies.

If nothing else, there's a notable portion of players invested in the story and game who do not flock to social media in the first place or who at least restrain themselves there - so there's merit to the idea of the writers seeking to cater to more than just that particular crowd.

Which, in turn, is why there's a push from some of us to have more variety in terms of what sort of characters and stances are taken in the story.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Its not a Strawman if its exactly what they said.

---

No, what I said was this:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

I'd just like more visible and meaningful engagement with regular players. Sending out a survey designed to gather some deeper feedback in regards to the future direction of the game would be a reliable metric - because as it stands, FFXIV and FFXVI very much feel like games designed largely for social media engagement and reactions first and foremost.

---

You trimmed down my post to remove the first part and the added context that came with it and then declared it to be 'weird'.

There were places in the chapter that didn't ring true with my own perspective or rather broke my focus on the story of zodiark and Zeno's. But overall I loved the story of good vs bad. Reading fantasy's such as LOTR, participate in text based games where writing matters I have to give them a thumbs up for drawing me in. I hope the next story arc is another 10 year adventure or at least half of that. Something I can look forward to.

Well, two paid DLC's were just announced for FFXVI. Not terribly surprising but it'll be interesting to see how it impacts FFXIV's development cycle and funding moving forward.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snorky

There were places in the chapter that didn't ring true with my own perspective or rather broke my focus on the story of zodiark and Zeno's. But overall I loved the story of good vs bad. Reading fantasy's such as LOTR, participate in text based games where writing matters I have to give them a thumbs up for drawing me in. I hope the next story arc is another 10 year adventure or at least half of that. Something I can look forward to.

---

I fail to see how ARR - EW was a story arc in any way

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BRVV

I fail to see how ARR - EW was a story arc in any way

---

I am not sure what you mean by this but do enlighten me, I am interested in your opinion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

You trimmed down my post to remove the first part and the added context that came with it and then declared it to be 'weird'.

---

Because I -Very Specifically Was Replying to One Part of it, that I found Weird-
I read your whole post, and Twice, I Quoted: Highlighting "Exactly" what I was replying to.
It is Exactly what you said, which is how I was able to Quote it.

Regardless if you were talking about the Future Direction of the game and how the Devs should reach out to players for feedback that can improve the game, which I agree with, which is why I didnt say anything against it. You said, and I will Quote a Third Time: ""as it stands, FFXIV and FFXVI very much feel like games designed largely for social media engagement and reactions first and foremost.""
If you need an explanation on WHY I think this is weird, its because: and YOU said, that you Feel like these Games were made for Social Media Engagement "First and Foremost"

And so my reaction to that is....."because they are Story Driven and Narrative Focused? Idk, this was a weird read to me, thinking a game is designed for Reactions and Social Media"
A "Direct" reply to what you said.
Now your Followup here

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

I think Endwalker would have been much better if it were written to follow the established logical narrative progression and world building instead of banking on 'feels' that simply don't hold up under scrutiny.

---

Makes more sense, and would have worked if you thought of including something like this WITH your post beforehand.
I wouldn't have found it weird if you included a simple explanation to go with your post of
""as it stands, FFXIV and FFXVI very much feel like games designed largely for social media engagement and reactions first and foremost.""

Im sure you are just gonna tell me it shouldn't matter, as you do sometimes.
But if you have the foresight to not just assume people are going to agree with you, and think more carefully about how you word things, or just explain your thoughts, then you can avoid crap like this.

I'm honestly not sure why you're so hung up on that particular post but rather than engage in increasingly pedantic back and forth quote sessions, I think I'll simply refer you back to one of your earlier posts:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Its really not that deep. Moving on.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

I'm honestly not sure why you're so hung up on that particular post but rather than engage in increasingly pedantic back and forth quote sessions, I think I'll simply refer you back to one of your earlier posts:

---

All I did was explain myself.
You were confused, so I explained it. Something others dont like to afford me

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snorky

I am not sure what you mean by this but do enlighten me, I am interested in your opinion.

---

A story arc is a set of events all connected right? ARR and HW are already only loosely connected in my opinion. I see no connection for Heavensward to Stormblood. I mean the actual MSQ and the point of it, not the final quests that lead up to the expansion. Shadowbringers is almost completely detached from everything previous. Yes people will say otherwise but no i don't mean the things we found out but the actual story of ShB. No connection. When giving a summary of the most important events you can leave a lot that happened on the first out. EW makes up a new threat and retcons a lot to make it connect. So this is why ARR - EW is not a story arc imho. It loosely connected smaller arcs.

Another short story:

https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...97aca9fd284e00

I think it's rather strange to describe the Garlean's dismay at losing their ancestral homeland as a 'grudge'. Not only are they unable to manipulate aether they were simple farmers who were forced to retreat to a frozen wasteland. If not for the presence of ceruleum they would have died out completely.

Furthermore the game isn't shy about forcing many nations to be a melting pot, so one wonders why Corvos cannot be shared by both Garleans and Corvosi alike.

Hopefully Dawntrail has Garlemald reconstruction since it really does feel like something planned and then hastily scrapped despite it being the nation in most dire need of aid - and I have my doubts that whatever is going on in Tural is anywhere near as dire as what the Garleans are enduring.

Hmmm - this line of text: "Thus he endeavored to separate the man from the myth, electing simply to introduce himself as the newest member of the Scions"

....except, aren't the Scions, 'officially' disbanded?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BRVV

A story arc is a set of events all connected right? ARR and HW are already only loosely connected in my opinion. I see no connection for Heavensward to Stormblood. I mean the actual MSQ and the point of it, not the final quests that lead up to the expansion. Shadowbringers is almost completely detached from everything previous. Yes people will say otherwise but no i don't mean the things we found out but the actual story of ShB. No connection. When giving a summary of the most important events you can leave a lot that happened on the first out. EW makes up a new threat and retcons a lot to make it connect. So this is why ARR - EW is not a story arc imho. It loosely connected smaller arcs.

---

Thanks for the explanation, I can understand where you might see it that way. One thing you are forgetting are the ascians. They manipulated in ARR, they also did the same in Ishgard with the arch bishop, they also did the same with the (crystal braves guy from Ala mhigo. As you must be aware emet selk is a garlean. Sorry about my spelling so to me yes it's a story arc. But hey I understand how you might think that way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Hmmm - this line of text: "Thus he endeavored to separate the man from the myth, electing simply to introduce himself as the newest member of the Scions"

....except, aren't the Scions, 'officially' disbanded?

---

Could you quote the conversation (the whole conversation) where the scions disbanded please? Just so we're all on the same page.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snorky

[...]One thing you are forgetting are the ascians. They manipulated in ARR, they also did the same in Ishgard with the arch bishop, they also did the same with the (crystal braves guy from Ala mhigo. As you must be aware emet selk is a garlean. [...]

---

That to me just seems like individual attempts at rejoining. They don't build upon each other or do they?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Boblawblah

Could you quote the conversation (the whole conversation) where the scions disbanded please? Just so we're all on the same page.

---

Apologies, but I'd rather not. That has been discussed to death and a great deal of that discussion took place earlier in this very thread. Besides, I misread the quote from the story anyway and am therefore sorry for that too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BRVV

That to me just seems like individual attempts at rejoining. They don't build upon each other or do they?

---

It depends on your perspective, i believe the ascians manipulated it all. In which case yes i look at it as a arc in the story. I am not a book critic. Maybe it could have been written more smooth but when using this media or even television some things are sacrificed to save time same with computer games. We don't know what was left on the cutting room floor. I think it tied in but that is my opinion.

Well considering what their plans for what the story was evolved between ARR and EW, it's safe to say that prior events, and the role they played, were reinterpreted and given a new meaning in light of new information. The aim would be to give the appearance of a consistent arc. It's up to individual interpretation how well they pulled that off.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lauront

Well considering what their plans for what the story was evolved between ARR and EW, it's safe to say that prior events, and the role they played, were reinterpreted and given a new meaning in light of new information. The aim would be to give the appearance of a consistent arc. It's up to individual interpretation how well they pulled that off.

---

I totally agree Lauront, it is a matter of perspective. Could it have been done more smooth sure, could they afford to add in content to make it more smooth who knows?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Apologies, but I'd rather not. That has been discussed to death and a great deal of that discussion took place earlier in this very thread. Besides, I misread the quote from the story anyway and am therefore sorry for that too.

---

You did, BUT! There is still a quote in the text where Hien directly refers to G'raha as a scion. I was just a dumbass for not reading the whole text myself and having to be corrected by Cleretic.

On the subject of the Scions, the previous story had this to say:

https://i.imgur.com/let6VAA.png

Source:

https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/10th_.../#sidestory_02

Gotta wonder since the Scions are the Akatsuki in JP, do they just refer to themselves as the Akatsuki when asked for? Like we just shorthand them to Scions, but is there shorthand for Akatsuki?

With faith uninspired with the last short story of the season, I'll be really surprised if Dawntrail isn't also lackluster.

My fellow Lackluster brethren, what are you up to these days? I've been playing FFXI more often than not, and can't help but think the Cumulus Masque's black half or in general would have made a good Ascian mask, whether it was just part of a transformation or not.

My sub expires in a few days. I may or may not come back, depends on my FC.
This is the first time I've been in an FC with around 15 frequent active members who all just stop playing indefinitely. The last active member let their sub expire a week ago so I have no reason to stay subbed for now.

I'm disappointed with not just FFXIV but SE as a whole. And the MMOs to come out since the 2010s have never interested me so I've been playing offline games, not exclusively RPGs. While the MMO market is completely unnappealing to me these days, between passionate indie projects and comfy but consistent non-indie releases I find myself with more than enough options for single-player experiences that I don't see the point in paying a sub fee to play a watered down, highly butchered execution of a single-player that XIV itself is pursuing.

I'd play XI instead, if they updated the UI. I know mods exist but I don't fancy paying for games in which players have to do unpaid QoL work for the official developers...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vyrerus

With faith uninspired with the last short story of the season, I'll be really surprised if Dawntrail isn't also lackluster.

My fellow Lackluster brethren, what are you up to these days? I've been playing FFXI more often than not, and can't help but think the Cumulus Masque's black half or in general would have made a good Ascian mask, whether it was just part of a transformation or not.

---

Hah. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised but I think it's telling that they squeezed out yet another story based around a family that has already received a huge amount of attention during Endwalker. I think they're actively avoiding addressing anything relating to the Sundering at this point though given the previews of 6.5 it seems there will be yet another attempt to try and sanitise Venat and her followers. It seems as if the bleak apocalyptic vibe of the excess light in the First is also set to be exploited to solve the Zeromus situation. I can't express how weary I am of the focus on light, light, light.

I really wish I could enjoy Endwalker to some degree but it's really an expansion bereft of everything I liked about the game. The new PvP mode fell flat for me since I can't team up with my partner for it. There's no equivalent to Bozja or Eureka. What side content exists is tied to Hildibrand style 'humour' which is very much not my cup of tea. Despite it making perfect sense for it to happen, there's no Garlemald reconstruction either. The Void seems set to be wrapped up in a neat little bow despite being the perfect locale for an entire expansion. The list goes on.

I don't expect Dawntrail to be much different. Though with how eager CBU3 are to follow trends, hopefully it falls out of fashion to do whatever it is they're doing right now.

Funnily enough, I've been getting my MMO fix from WoW and ESO these days. They're both good for just playing casually when I want the backdrop of other players running around and some exploration. Neither are perfect, though the MMO market is slim pickings at the moment. As a roleplayer it helps that they have roleplay communities built around something other than 'venues', too.

Other than that, I've mostly been indulging other hobbies and other games - Baldur's Gate 3 has been a delight to play through and I quite like the exploration loop in Starfield. There's a few upcoming releases that I've eager to get my hands on as well - FFVIIR included. It's proof that Square Enix isn't necessarily the issue with FFXIV since they're more than happy to throw generous bones to people who like the antagonists in that FFVIIR. Just not in FFXIV, strangely.

At least the sheer amount of releases and games in my backlog makes it easy to just let the sub lapse and forget about it. Still waiting for some further patching to BG3 before playing it more, so I am playing Kingmaker, which whilst a little rough around the edges in some ways, is a near perfect RPG experience to me in terms of how it plays, combining a kingdom sim with a Pathfinder RPG. Not that I expect an MMO to be able to compete with either for an RPG experience, but much like Theodric I'd sooner play WoW for an MMO fix these days than 14 as, messy writing aside, it is more of one than this is, and I appreciate that they're going back and adding things for the blood elves, as well as the playable man'ari Eredar option. I'm quite busy with work and other things, so I find myself wishing for more hours in the day. :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

Hildibrand among other things

---

I actually had to login the other day to retain forum access, and I had yet to do the new leg of Hildibrand for the relic. It was very short though the comedy did land for me again. I'm easy to make laugh, heh.

But the most interesting thing that came from it was the nod to something both apart and not of Hildibrand. Apparently...

Hildibrand's ancestor was a Hyur midlander afflicted with a terminal illness that came in contact with an, I shit you not, Alien Symbiote. The Symbiote fixed and strengthened his body to a great degree, and this apparently passed on through the Manderville generations and is supposedly responsible for Godbert and Hildibrand's ineffable vigor. The storyline said that the Symbiote's race were called the Mandervillians and they had to flee their cosmic empire that was brought low by phenomena hinted strongly to be Meteion's Final Days

And that is legitimately the most interest I've taken in anything in Endwalker since we first opened up The Void. It means we might see the next threat be symbiote enhanced enemies. An ass pull lifted straight outta Spiderman! But one I've always rather liked, being a somewhat big fan of Venom and Carnage. Of course, it's just as easily discarded, with Godbert even having a line, "But the family tree says..." So idk. Like anything interesting in EW it probably isn't going anywhere cool.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vyrerus

I actually had to login the other day to retain forum access, and I had yet to do the new leg of Hildibrand for the relic. It was very short though the comedy did land for me again. I'm easy to make laugh, heh.

But the most interesting thing that came from it was the nod to something both apart and not of Hildibrand. Apparently...

Hildibrand's ancestor was a Hyur midlander afflicted with a terminal illness that came in contact with an, I shit you not, Alien Symbiote. The Symbiote fixed and strengthened his body to a great degree, and this apparently passed on through the Manderville generations and is supposedly responsible for Godbert and Hildibrand's ineffable vigor. The storyline said that the Symbiote's race were called the Mandervillians and they had to flee their cosmic empire that was brought low by phenomena hinted strongly to be Meteion's Final Days

And that is legitimately the most interest I've taken in anything in Endwalker since we first opened up The Void. It means we might see the next threat be symbiote enhanced enemies. An ass pull lifted straight outta Spiderman! But one I've always rather liked, being a somewhat big fan of Venom and Carnage. Of course, it's just as easily discarded, with Godbert even having a line, "But the family tree says..." So idk. Like anything interesting in EW it probably isn't going anywhere cool.

---

So in short, Eddie Brock is Godbert's ancestor? The spiderverse is wild....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KitingGenbu

So in short, Eddie Brock is Godbert's ancestor? The spiderverse is wild....

---

Holy moly Batman.. wait bats eat bugs no this can't be are we getting Batman as a story too?

On a more serious note while also potentially being controversial and unpopular, can they kill off another Scion already? I know the catgirl has permanent plot armor and we need to finish getting her back to the first to see her BF but I could never take anything involving them seriously knowing they'll always 'come through' in the end (definitely made the MSQ feel cringe sitting through that entire event of 'death').