Zepla: Endwalker is the Worst FFXIV Expansion I have played

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Yet you're here, in this thread, brushing off criticism of the game as if it were coming solely or largely from the types of players you claim plagued EverQuest.

I don't even do high end raiding in this game. I mostly seek to collect stuff, play around with my house and indulge exploratory content and some PvP on the side. Yet I've found this expansion to be very lacking in terms of things to actually do.

That's the gist of the thread - just players who aren't new asking for the development team not to neglect them in favour of trying to focus on catering to newer players.

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I used to think he was just a grouchy noob, but took the bait.

He’s def a troll. Dude stumbled into here 100% knowing what he’s doing. Not worth the effort to engage tbh.

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Originally Posted by Ivtrix

I used to think he was just a grouchy noob, but took the bait.

He’s def a troll. Dude stumbled into here 100% knowing what he’s doing. Not worth the effort to engage tbh.

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Good to know. Curating the worthless trolls and the entertaining trolls is a real challenge lol.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Good to know. Curating the worthless trolls and the entertaining trolls is a real challenge lol.

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Yeah just read his post history if you want. It’s just full of unhinged ranking against the “whiny elitists”. Never provides anything other than to attempt to dogpile on people they don’t like.

Very clear they arnt here to argue in good faith.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Also in a simliar vein, happy veterans singing a game's praises bring more new players. Unhappy vets feeling like the game isn't worth their time probaby will repel more new players than the current design will attract.

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1 happy customer will help you get another customer. One unhappy customer can loose you 10,000 customers. From my business classes in college.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

The major issue I keep seeing with mid tier content right now is that it pretty much gets shoved to one side, either it becomes part of the casual content or the hardcore content, since there is the elephant in the room of savage and ultimate raiders coming back down to it with way higher ilvl than the casual/midcore players.
It makes a situation where either you balance for higher ilvl gear to not bore the raiders and it becomes hardcore content that locks out casuals due to their lower gear score, or you balance for lower ilvl casuals and the raiders come down to it way overgeared and breeze through it super fast, making it have a short lifespan and get outgeared quickly.
If they followed the example of Unreal where it's tightly synced ilvl that you really aren't allowed to outgear, and then it has forgiving dps checks it feels like that would be the best of both worlds, but they're pretty set in their content schedule for the next expansion or so.

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I agree about the ilvl sync it would actually put people on even ground.

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Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

Remember, your faction allegiances can change daily depending on community sentiment!

Thanks, and have fun! SE isn't watching.

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Hey game master.

Im one of those zodiark something that were mad at Hydaelyn being good and Zodiark being not a victim, something like that, that thought Endwalker and half-Shadowbringers were a mistake, particulary the time traveling part. How were those called? Tell me who should i designate as Friends and Enemies?!

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Originally Posted by Renathras

It's literally not what they said. They didn't say "you cant run out of backlog". They literally said:





Yeah, they didn't.

So it's not just me, you guys outright make up things you want other people to have said so you can attack weaker arguments than presented. The classic strawman fallacy. I'm not sure if I should feel better or worse that I'm not the only one you guys invent things to attack over.



This is the correct take.



It's not. Some specific posters are inventing things to accuse people of having said so they can attack and "defeat" those weak arguments. It's a straight up strawman fallacy and deception.

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EDIT: You know the funny thing? I don't even agree with that person - I think having some long-term grindy content is good. But they're absolutely being unfairly attacked.

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The person literally said “new players will never catch up” as part of a wider argument for why grindy content is bad

There is only one way to interpret that and it basically amounts to “if you don’t have a backlog because you are an old player than too bad so sad” which is a terrible argument, this isn’t one of your “you aren’t taking the spirit of the post you are making the post what you want it to be” this is literally the only way you can interpret that post and taking the other persons “A leads to B B leads to C but if I just say A leads to B it doesn’t sound as bad” doesn’t change there is only a single way to interpret that post

If you take the statement at face value “new people can’t catch up on side content. Grinding is bad” please try to come up with a conclusion based on that sentence that doesn’t amount to “vets need to put up and shut up”

I know we are a collection of big bad boogeyman to you and you have this weird idea that you have to try to defend people being “dogpilled” by us but it’s not a straw man if that is the only way you can interpret that post

The game honestly could use some long term goal "grindy" content however. The issue is how it's implemented. It need not be built entirely around appeasing the flash in pan gamers that just want to collect that "you finished the game" trophy or achievement on their profile then move on to the next title appearing on the "popular games" list. At the same time we need not alienate those gamers either. It's really a matter of balance. That being said balance appears to be something they've had a problem with on this game pretty much it's entire lifespan.

They could have done something for crafters/gatherers with the Garlemald restoration. Or Radz, after the Final Days. But Garlemald restoration is happening off screen, without our involvement, and Radz and surrounding areas just bounced back good as new. Or made Garlemald the new Eureka/Bozja, could have been a cool exploratory zone. Destroyed land mass, go in and explore and help restore order. Have some big raids on some Garlemald Castrums. Something like that would have been great to grind out over the course between 6.1 and 7.0.

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Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

They could have done something for crafters/gatherers with the Garlemald restoration. Or Radz, after the Final Days. But Garlemald restoration is happening off screen, without our involvement, and Radz and surrounding areas just bounced back good as new. Or made Garlemald the new Eureka/Bozja, could have been a cool exploratory zone. Destroyed land mass, go in and explore and help restore order. Have some big raids on some Garlemald Castrums. Something like that would have been great to grind out over the course between 6.1 and 7.0.

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Ok, that's the first idea for an exploratory zone that actually sounds interesting. I've never been a fan of them mostly because of how they work and while I probably wouldn't like this one you describe for similar reasons, the idea of an exploratory restoration zone I could get behind purely for the story.

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Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

They could have done something for crafters/gatherers with the Garlemald restoration. Or Radz, after the Final Days. But Garlemald restoration is happening off screen, without our involvement, and Radz and surrounding areas just bounced back good as new. Or made Garlemald the new Eureka/Bozja, could have been a cool exploratory zone. Destroyed land mass, go in and explore and help restore order. Have some big raids on some Garlemald Castrums. Something like that would have been great to grind out over the course between 6.1 and 7.0.

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The exploratory area should have been the Northern Front of Dalmasca.
Bring back Ramza.

Deal with and finish off the III Legion. But this clearly got the Regula van Hydrus treatment. And have some of the raids arround the perifery of Garlemald so just only we can finally get rid of the "???" regions once and for all and the damned clouds.
The restoration should have been indeed of Garlemald.

Maybe next expansion finally?
It's again extremely jarring to go to a new world when there is so much going on locally that also has been going on since centuries in game setting. I say we need a "Matsuno" style expansion dedicated to geopolitics since BEFORE shadowbringers or in between with Endwalker.
Not more jarring than inter-reality phasing and/or time travel, specially the first being pulled right off from something that has been going on since almost a decade, a decade if you count 1.0, which is the confrontation with the Garlean Empire.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

The person literally said...

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This is a problem I think you have - you interpret something one way, decide/think that's the ONLY way to interpret it, introduce negative stuff not in the original (the OP didn't say anything resembling "too bad so sad"), and then when people explain to you there are other interpretations or even if the original poster points out to you that wasn't what they said or meant, you insist it is still the only way to interpret it and must be what they meant, even if they outright tell you it wasn't.

For example, my interpretation of:

"backlog of content that new players can basically never catch up in side content[/QUOTE]

Veteran players have gone through a lot of their backlog, but a new player, there is so much content in the game already, even a trickle addition would be something one would be hard pressed to catch up to.

That's an entirely valid interpretation of that statement. Imagine if you were starting the game TODAY. First ever time you logged in. Think about just how much MSQ you have to go through if you aren't a cutscene skipper. Now think about all the optional dungeons. Optional raids. Optional PvP. Tens of thousands of achievements, hundreds for any one kind of content. All of ARR, HW, Eureka, and Bozja relics. All the sidequests. All the side-stories. All the Jobs to level. All the stuff to unlock and collect from mounts to minions to emotes to BLU spells.

Think about how much content if you were just going to 25% the game. That's a LOT.

Note that it says literally nothing about veterans - nor does it berate them as "too bad so sad". That was entirely an injection of your own mind.

Your way is not the only way to interpret it, "literally" or otherwise. The statement was not "new people can't catch up on side content. Grinding is bad". "Especially when there's such a backlog of content that new players can basically never catch up in side content, having the new side content no require you to spend hours a day grinding to cap this or grind out completions of this fate over and over is a net positive." does not actually make that statement anywhere. It says not grinding is a net positive, but makes no statement that grind is "bad". "But that's the ONLY way to interpre-" no, it's not. There are literally THREE other ways to interpret that outright; grinding is bad, grinding is neutral, grinding is good but not as good.

Your last line is you trying to deflect from being incorrect AND you trying to derail the thread with more personal attacks, so I'm not going to entertain it. (I do think it's funny you just indicted the very thing you do and don't realize it). I'll just say, again, that no, it's not "the only way you can interpret that post".

You need to stop doing this thing where you get stuck on YOUR interpretation and insist not only is it true, but that it's the only one, even after the OP themselves tells you it was not what they were saying.

I have to wonder what the devs are doing with the extra time between patches, extra income from more subs and mogstations items, and all of that. Because it sure isn't going into creating things for players to do. Knowing SE, probably funneling the money into pits like Forspoken or whatever stupid crypto stuff they are up to these days.

Perhaps it's time for more content to not be locked behind the completion of the MSQ's? Furthermore a new starting point could be introduced so new players can choose to skip what exists already and go back to it later if they so choose.

I personally don't see much point in new players pushing for less content because they have 'too much to do' when they deliberately go out of their way to try out a game with ongoing development that has existed for roughly a decade already.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

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Taking the first half of the point then stopping isn’t an interpretation, think of the wider point the person is making

1) new people will never catch up (and valid statement even though I think the volume of content the majority of new people will genuinely interact with is overblown)
2) grinding is in general bad
3) this was in a thread mostly being populated by older veterans stating their isn’t enough content in the game

You basically just responded to 1 and said “yep 1 is true”, but if 1 is true and used with 2 and 3 what other meaning are you basically able to draw from this other than “what vets want really doesn’t matter because there is enough content in the game”, come on this is basic context, the whole point of writing is you don’t have say every single word that that you mean, you can’t come up with a way that poster saying 1 and 2 in the context of 3 means she is totally pro adding more content for veterans, her point is totally clear, the OP never even actually refuted my point that her statement basically means she doesn’t care about vets all she said was the way I wrote her statement back to her wasn’t “exactly what she said”

Seriously do we all have to type like 5 year olds to understand context, arguing on semantics of how I quoted a person isn’t saying the way I interpreted their point is wrong we are basically at the point of someone saying “the sky is green” another person saying “it’s actually blue” then a third person coming in and saying “acshooly they didn’t say the sky WASNT blue they said the sky was green”

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

I have to wonder what the devs are doing with the extra time between patches, extra income from more subs and mogstations items, and all of that. Because it sure isn't going into creating things for players to do. Knowing SE, probably funneling the money into pits like Forspoken or whatever stupid crypto stuff they are up to these days.

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Well, if we want to pull out tinfoil hat theories...

They apparently announced FF16 will have 2 paid DLCs

They're thinking about giving Chronotrigger FF6, and FF9 the remake treatment.

A tiny amount of consideration has been given to finally porting DQX outside of Japan

We'll have to see if anything interesting appears at the Tokyo Games Show. Japanese publishers and developers love using it to announce new things.

Actually, her opinion isn't even valid. She plays a gacha game while admitting she does have slight addiction problems with gambling.She needs constant gratification and that's just not happing in between expansions in FFXIV, it never has and never will.

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Originally Posted by NailBach

Actually, her opinion isn't even valid. She plays a gacha game while admitting she does have slight addiction problems with gambling.She needs constant gratification and that's just not happing in between expansions in FFXIV, it never has and never will.

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Plenty of players share her concerns for the future of the game without playing gatcha games, though. Furthermore it's not like FFXIV itself doesn't increasingly lean on optional items with limited availability...

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Originally Posted by NailBach

Actually, her opinion isn't even valid. She plays a gacha game while admitting she does have slight addiction problems with gambling.She needs constant gratification and that's just not happing in between expansions in FFXIV, it never has and never will.

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I'm just going to assume at this point you didn't even watch the video, because she's not asking for constant gratification in it, and even goes to point out she's not asking for an extreme treadmill experience. She's also not alone in these concerns.

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Originally Posted by NailBach

Actually, her opinion isn't even valid. She plays a gacha game while admitting she does have slight addiction problems with gambling.She needs constant gratification and that's just not happing in between expansions in FFXIV, it never has and never will.

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I despise gacha and pretty much share her opinion on everything.

Because, surprise surprise, those gacha games have absolutely nothing to do with ffxiv, since there is no gacha. You can play and indulge in other games while still seeing the faults of this expansion. I don't spend every waking moment playing this game, but this game actively feels like it doesn't want me to log in with Endwalker to much of any capacity.

Also maybe if you people would actually watch the damn video before commenting about it you would see she's trying to be as open-minded as possible. Don't decide to come in here and blabber about her character then be surprised when people ragdoll you.

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Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

You mean how FFXIV has been changed to better suit a reductive solo casual playstyle?

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Well XIV was always that it followed WoW which casualize the MMO sphere & XIV followed Yoshida has always regarded XIV as a Single player FF first and an MMO second, it's not XIV changed it's XIV headed to where Yoshida always wanted it to be something Mainline SP fans could hop in & engage as little as possible with MMO elements as the tech & teams gotten better they continue to push it further for single player friendliness.

If wanted MMO XIV you're out luck that Tanaka got fired & replaced with Yoshida as 1.x was literally just a HD XI, had 1.x not been hell & Tanaka remained in charge XIV would be a small community but hardcore MMO.

Amazing how much this topic got derailed, but then it's not like Zepla's whining is really worthy of discussion.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5Vq6JAa8AAu_V0?format=jpg

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

Amazing how much this topic got derailed, but then it's not like Zepla's whining is really worthy of discussion.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5Vq6JAa8AAu_V0?format=jpg

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Except her whining is actually most our whining and complaints about the game, so what does that exactly say abouy us and the current state of the game?

Or would you rather that nobody ever addresses these issues and we all pretend that SE is doing a fine job with the Endwalker patches? Whats your angle here?

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Except her whining is actually most our whining and complaints about the game, so what does that exactly say abouy us and the current state of the game?

Or would you rather that nobody ever addresses these issues and we all pretend that SE is doing a fine job with the Endwalker patches? Whats your angle here?

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That's hilarious coming from you. When I give a criticism about this game, you're usually one of the first people who queue up telling me I'm an idiot for having an opinion.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

Amazing how much this topic got derailed, but then it's not like Zepla's whining is really worthy of discussion.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5Vq6JAa8AAu_V0?format=jpg

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She actually is listing issues and concerns regarding Endwalker patch content. Your comment is literally pointless and adds nothing beneficial to the discussion. Be antagonistic somewhere else

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Originally Posted by NailBach

Actually, her opinion isn't even valid. She plays a gacha game while admitting she does have slight addiction problems with gambling.She needs constant gratification and that's just not happing in between expansions in FFXIV, it never has and never will.

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so question about this one. What does gacha have anything to do with the state of the game? These issues have been in 14 for a while now even before this video.

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Originally Posted by Zairava

She actually is listing issues and concerns regarding tendencies and Endwalker patch content. Your comment is literally pointless and adds nothing beneficial to the dicussion. Be antagonistic somewhere else

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Spare me the insipid put downs. Not everyone is going to agree with her.
I don't have to like her just because she dupes people with that dimply smile crap.
Maybe you should realize that her being popular does not mean her opinion should carry more weight.
Please give it some consideration. You probably won't, but I'm used to that kind of response.

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Originally Posted by BlazingErial

Must be a slow day over at Asmongold's subreddit is Ms. Hot Take is dropping another reaction bait video

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I, however, fully expect a thread in due course discussing the yet to appear, but inevitable, commentary/reaction video Asmongold will produce in response to Zepla's video.

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Originally Posted by NailBach

Actually, her opinion isn't even valid. She plays a gacha game while admitting she does have slight addiction problems with gambling.She needs constant gratification and that's just not happing in between expansions in FFXIV, it never has and never will.

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Do you always reduce people to one aspect? She could gamble & be addicted to gatcha while waiting on queues on Oceania or just play both. I mean she doesn't have a job... i mean sry she streams as a job so she can play all day! 8 hours gatcha, 4 hours FFXIV for example.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

Spare me the insipid put downs. Not everyone is going to agree with her.
I don't have to like her just because she dupes people with that dimply smile crap.
Maybe you should realize that her being popular does not mean her opinion should carry more weight.
Please give it some consideration. You probably won't, but I'm used to that kind of response.

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You could wait for the topic to die down. Posting in it will however not make that happen faster.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

That's hilarious coming from you. When I give a criticism about this game, you're usually one of the first people who queue up telling me I'm an idiot for having an opinion.

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If I called you an idiot, I wouldve already been banned so thats a lie.

Also I never expressed that the EW patches were perfect. I have defended a lot of the content but I always said that they couldve done its implementation better.

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Originally Posted by BRVV

You could wait for the topic to die down. Posting in it will however not make that happen faster.

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As said a few posts ago, this isn't very likely considering that Asmongold hasn't produced his usual reaction video in response to what was said yet.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

Spare me the insipid put downs. Not everyone is going to agree with her.
I don't have to like her just because she dupes people with that dimply smile crap.
Maybe you should realize that her being popular does not mean her opinion should carry more weight.
Please give it some consideration. You probably won't, but I'm used to that kind of response.

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I already know not everyone is going to agree with her, but it's something worth discussing whether you like her or not.

I personally don't care whether she's popular or not, I don't subscribe to her or watch her content whenever something drops. However, she's also someone who has potential to actually voice these concerns to yoship personally, especially regarding media tour. Which is something we will never obtain since we aren't content creators with the influence to do so.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

As said a few posts ago, this isn't very likely considering that Asmongold hasn't produced his usual reaction video in response to what was said yet.

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But then we can have a new topic! "You won't believe what Asmongold reacted to just now!!! Is Zepla calling out FFXIV??? (real story)"

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Originally Posted by BRVV

But then we can have a new topic! "You won't believe what Asmongold reacted to just now!!! Is Zepla calling out FFXIV??? (real story)"

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Weirdly enough I just saw an asmongold clip that was posted a few hours ago that's applicable here....people who don't play the game a lot are out of touch and people who play it all the time are out of touch...and people whos make it their job to play the game you will never understand the average player...i find that to be pretty on point in this instance.

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Originally Posted by CStrife912

Weirdly enough I just saw an asmongold clip that was posted a few hours ago that's applicable here....people who don't play the game a lot are out of touch and people who play it all the time are out of touch...and people whos make it their job to play the game you will never understand the average player...i find that to be pretty on point in this instance.

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you mean this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShCwmWodu7k

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Originally Posted by Zairava

I already know not everyone is going to agree with her, but it's something worth discussing whether you like her or not.

I personally don't care whether she's popular or not, I don't subscribe to her or watch her content whenever something drops. However, she's also someone who has potential to actually voice these concerns to yoship personally, especially regarding media tour. Which is something we will never obtain since we aren't content creators with the influence to do so.

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My only hope is that if FFXIV content creators can be part of this feedback conversation, then hopefully the dev team can finally start listening in.

Granted I still feel like they already know but are just being very stubborn, which is the most likely case and its very concerning.

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Originally Posted by Axxion

you mean this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShCwmWodu7k

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Yeah thats the one lol, I have only watched the odd clip from asmon so was curious on the video and yeah I think this can apply to the players and the streamers/content creators as well

Hey here is some valid criticisms of the game in its current state

Yeah but I don’t like you because (insert superficial reason) so checkmate

This is some YouTube comment section discourse right here

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

One of the points that she brought up I think its actually true. Current FFXIV lacks the drive for anyone wanting to log on. I like the new content ideas weve gotten in EW but the fact that IS isnt alternate customizable player housing or Variant/Criterion dungeons isnt an alt way to getting good gear makes you believe that the game just doesnt want you to play it.

Im always going to defend the idea that content that is a short and fun experience is much better but these patches need to compensate that with more meat and bones. Everything is just dragged out so hard and people finish crap before the week ends and that sucks.

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I know you don’t like field content as a rule but what is your opinion on making short content with optional grinds

Like you can blast through Zadnor from 15-25 in about 1 night if you get a decent instance but 10/10/10 or 50 field notes can take months to achieve

I’m not sure how to do it with variant or IS but what about making content bite sized for the “I want my I beat the game trophy” crowd but including meaningful grinds for people who want reasons to log on most every day

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

That's hilarious coming from you. When I give a criticism about this game, you're usually one of the first people who queue up telling me I'm an idiot for having an opinion.

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Or maybe it has something to do with the actual content of your criticism.
Thankfully I don't have the memory of a goldfish so here are some gems (slightly paraphrased):

• Shiva Unreal is a failure, I can't beat the enrage in PF so the content is bad
• Savage is badly designed, making me play properly to beat the enrage is fake difficulty
• Boss mechanics that can actually kill me are bad design
• I can't find practice groups for savage and it's the game's fault...no I'm not going to make a practice party myself
• The Masked Carnivale is Some of the Worst Content in FFXIV