Count me amoung the skeptics ...

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

Wrong.

It's like 1/20 with quality between 30-100.

It's like 1/100 when hasty-handing.

But maybe shards are different.

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wrong. if that's the case i must be the luckiest mofo ever since i have hasty handed and hq'd 4 cotton yarn back to back also. that's 4 straight which was +1 +1 +2 +1. hasty hand is alot higher than 1/100.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

Yes. You nail it here when you mention emotional attachment. This is something else XI had in spades... even if it was frustration at having lost to Maat for the 8th time... It got you "feeling".

Right from the opening movie for XI, SE was nailing it in the emotional aspect. I mean, I don't know about anyone else, but at the end of that opening movie, when Aldo is overlooking Lufaise Meadows toward Tavnazia, echoing the opening of the movie... I was genuinely moved. I was also ready to kick some serious Orc ass (though I started in Windurst, so I had to settle with the Yagudo first :-p).

By the time that movie ended and the Final Fantasy XI logo came up, you knew what was going on. You know why you were there. You knew what the score was.

So, another great point raised, Keith.

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When I beat maat ( I was fortunate to go 1/1) I jumped outta my seat like "HELL YEAH! GET SOME!!" and I felt damn accomplished as if I had already saved the world 3 times lol. I wanted trumpets and confetti as i returned to town but recieved none. :P

XI had TONS of emotional attachments, I mean when I first alked in Zitah I fell in love, I used to afk in that zone just for the music and scenery. I laughed, I cried, I raged out and quit for 10 hours but in the end I always came out ahead and felt damn good afterwards.

In XIV I can't get feel it. even getting 20 was exciting in that game. Not many MMOs do that for me but SE has the potential to do so I just hope the new team builds off these feelings and make XIV a whole new adventure that we all can delve into and enjoy as a community.

Plus I need a game worthy of my epic speech I wrote day 1 of launch... >.>;

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Originally Posted by Keith_Dragoon

When I beat maat ( I was fortunate to go 1/1) I jumped outta my seat like "HELL YEAH! GET SOME!!" and I felt damn accomplished as if I had already saved the world 3 times lol. I wanted trumpets and confetti as i returned to town but recieved none. :P

XI had TONS of emotional attachments, I mean when I first alked in Zitah I fell in love, I used to afk in that zone just for the music and scenery. I laughed, I cried, I raged out and quit for 10 hours but in the end I always came out ahead and felt damn good afterwards.

In XIV I can't get feel it. even getting 20 was exciting in that game. Not many MMOs do that for me but SE has the potential to do so I just hope the new team builds off these feelings and make XIV a whole new adventure that we all can delve into and enjoy as a community.

Plus I need a game worthy of my epic speech I wrote day 1 of launch... >.>;

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It took me three tries to beat Maat. Funny thing is both times I lost when I was all pumped up and focused, third try I logged on early saturday morning still half asleep like "Fuck it, let's just do this" and ended up winning. Beating CoP's airship battle pre-nerf after the 12th try? That was some shit I wanted to celebrate over.

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Originally Posted by Demacia

It took me three tries to beat Maat. Funny thing is both times I lost when I was all pumped up and focused, third try I logged on early saturday morning still half asleep like "Fuck it, let's just do this" and ended up winning. Beating CoP's airship battle pre-nerf after the 12th try? That was some shit I wanted to celebrate over.

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Oh god you don't even know! I failed that fight like 17 times because our pld was too cheap to buy potions or ethers. In the end it came down to me vs ultima everyone died he had 2% health left whm rr was down. I popped spirit surge and was like "all or nothing lets go!" WS'd him in the face and killed him as he was readying one of his death attacks lol.

I almost ran a lap around my room after saying "VIP! you cab sex me later!" on vent. Ah, the good times. This thread is making me miss XI and I'm already on it lol.

Thanks to everyone who read my post, (and the support of my fellow Seattlites).This is something that's been on my mind for a few weeks now, and I just wanted to put it out there. Moreover, I'm glad most of you enjoyed the read and appreciated the effort I took to express my thoughts, wooden clogs and all. I guess in hind sight I could have boiled it down to XIV needing a sense of accomplishment, but I think this was far more fun.

I also appreciate the mention of Hasty Hands, which I had forgotten about when I was writing my post. However, by R10 WEA/ALC I had already had enough. I could potentially understand having the mini-game process for more skilled items such as completing weapons or armor, which are more likely to be one-offs. Though, when you're just starting out and crafting unit-upon-unit of sundries, like hempen yarn for example, to make those more involved pieces, it gets a bit ridiculous. Maybe crafting just isn't for me, but regardless it should still be entertaining for the people who take part.


I'll say it again: I really want to like this game. Guess we'll see how things are when v1.18 hits in June.

Seriously, is there some way we can hotline this thread to Yoshi P's attention to make sure he reads it?

There's a consistent and very powerful message being conveyed here, over and over again, and I think it's something that they really need to pay attention to at SE, because they clearly seemed to overlook or forget about it when designing the current FFXIV.

Someone nailed it earlier in this thread, too (if memory serves; on lunch break is almost over, so I don't have time to go back and read through to check :-p) when they laid out the different meaningful milestones your character reaches as you progress in XI. Unlocking support jobs at 18.. which is, of course, *huge* in that it opens up one of the game's core defining systems to you. Getting to Jeuno at level 20 for the first time is, from my own experience and that I've read from others, pretty much always epic. Getting your chocobo license at level 20. Getting your Khazam airship pass around the mid 20s or so, opening up a whole new region of the game to you. Getting Rank 5 and your main airship pass... also huge. Getting level 30 for the first time and now having the quests for all the other advanced jobs opened up to you, thus increasing the options for your character even further... Getting R10 for your home nation for the first time. Completing all the Genkai quests and, of course, beating Maat for the first time. Getting 75 for the first time... Getting the final piece of your first AF armor set and being able to proudly wear it (even if there are better options for certain pieces).....

For me, helping others achieve those goals was almost just as exciting, because I knew how awesome it was to experience those things for myself. It was great to see/hear their reactions when others did the same.

And beyond that, there were so many other goals a player could set for themselves... Getting the full RSE set (by questing for it, not buying it). Questing for Monk's various belts, ultimately getting the Black Belt. And so forth...

Even unlocking new areas... I posted my "victory shot" for Lufaise Meadows earlier in this thread. I made it a personal goal to get them for other areas as well.. and so I have one for my first time in Sky, etc.. Why? Because those were areas that actually required effort to get access to and, again, opened up an entirely new region of the game, and entirely new content to the player.

FFXIV needs that. It really does.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

Seriously, is there some way we can hotline this thread to Yoshi P's attention to make sure he reads it?

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Just the like button.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

Seriously, is there some way we can hotline this thread to Yoshi P's attention to make sure he reads it?

There's a consistent and very powerful message being conveyed here, over and over again, and I think it's something that they really need to pay attention to at SE, because they clearly seemed to overlook or forget about it when designing the current FFXIV.

Someone nailed it earlier in this thread, too (if memory serves; on lunch break is almost over, so I don't have time to go back and read through to check :-p) when they laid out the different meaningful milestones your character reaches as you progress in XI. Unlocking support jobs at 18.. which is, of course, *huge* in that it opens up one of the game's core defining systems to you. Getting to Jeuno at level 20 for the first time is, from my own experience and that I've read from others, pretty much always epic. Getting your chocobo license at level 20. Getting your Khazam airship pass around the mid 20s or so, opening up a whole new region of the game to you. Getting Rank 5 and your main airship pass... also huge. Getting level 30 for the first time and now having the quests for all the other advanced jobs opened up to you, thus increasing the options for your character even further... Getting R10 for your home nation for the first time. Completing all the Genkai quests and, of course, beating Maat for the first time. Getting 75 for the first time... Getting the final piece of your first AF armor set and being able to proudly wear it (even if there are better options for certain pieces).....

For me, helping others achieve those goals was almost just as exciting, because I knew how awesome it was to experience those things for myself. It was great to see/hear their reactions when others did the same.

And beyond that, there were so many other goals a player could set for themselves... Getting the full RSE set (by questing for it, not buying it). Questing for Monk's various belts, ultimately getting the Black Belt. And so forth...

Even unlocking new areas... I posted my "victory shot" for Lufaise Meadows earlier in this thread. I made it a personal goal to get them for other areas as well.. and so I have one for my first time in Sky, etc.. Why? Because those were areas that actually required effort to get access to and, again, opened up an entirely new region of the game, and entirely new content to the player.

FFXIV needs that. It really does.

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sadly the main storylines (including jobquests) are all easy-mode solo-instanced. So everything ffxi had and the accomplishments you had, can't happen ever if they don't change that. I can't even have a friend in party (even if hes somewhere else) when i go on with the instanced parts or lolfights of the mainmission...

The fact that there are no mobs in instanced areas at all (only the ones that magically pop lol) and then you are not even allowed or forced (positivly forced since difficulty) to bring friends and helpers to accomplish these adventures together.

They threw damn much potential right out the window by making all the instanced solo-easy crap instead of topping it with epic fights, group content and such. And doin all these missions in instances (which are lackign the normal mob population) doesnt add to any immersion.

The more i think about the game the more it needs to be rebuild from scratch, the boring zones, (no fun to explore), same looking mobs all over, the quests (job/main) need to give you a challenge and not only for you but also for your friends (capped fights!!)...

FFXI did a great job with the synced battlegrounds (no matter if in missions or bcnm) so you had challenge no matter what lvl you were. THAT is truely a great mmo concept. not the bullshit "mmo starts with endgame" stuff. It shoudl start right away!!!

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Originally Posted by BelgianRofl

Kroma is the gentleman version of me.

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Were you or were you not supposed to have been gone already?

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

Wrong.

It's like 1/20 with quality between 30-100.

It's like 1/100 when hasty-handing.

But maybe shards are different.

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Oh. Well I stand corrected. I was only trying to correct that you CAN in fact HQ on Hasty. I do it all the time.

About 1/50 synths I get HQ on shards, but odds being what they are I could just be lucky and it could be 1/100.

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Originally Posted by Shai

Oh. Well I stand corrected. I was only trying to correct that you CAN in fact HQ on Hasty. I do it all the time.

About 1/50 synths I get HQ on shards, but odds being what they are I could just be lucky and it could be 1/100.

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Thanks for the info, I've never HQ on hasty hand but them again I don't use it often. Well now I have first hand experience with what happens when I assume something.

Well said Kroma. I have so many fond memories from FFXI, and 90% of them relate to the sense of accomplishment I felt after completing something challenging and getting the reward I had worked so hard to get.

If I had to pick two that stood out the most to me they would be completing the CoP missions (before they were nerfed) to get access to sea. The second one involves getting all the available avatars to SMN through the lvl 20 mini-avatar fights.

These types of fights got my heart racing every time, and it was very exhilarating to do whether I won or lost. I have yet to feel anything even remotely close to this from FFXIV, but I am holding out hope that they will eventually bring this type of excitement to this game.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

wrong. if that's the case i must be the luckiest mofo ever since i have hasty handed and hq'd 4 cotton yarn back to back also. that's 4 straight which was +1 +1 +2 +1. hasty hand is alot higher than 1/100.

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WTF... maybe I am just unlucky. I have HQ tools and yet, statistically, these are the figures I get: around 1/20 - 1/30 when standard synthing and around 1/100 when Hasty Handing.

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Originally Posted by Jibe

Thanks for the info, I've never HQ on hasty hand but them again I don't use it often. Well now I have first hand experience with what happens when I assume something.

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just as a heads up jibe until your craft is 10+ levels above the synth it is not a very good option to use. i use it alot on like cotton yarn, which is a very low level synth, because at r44 wvr i get 0 sp off it. i have a high success rate on it and get hq at a very high percentage on hasty hand on that one synth. i just wouldn't use it on a r20 synth at r20 and hope for hq....you don't even complete a high percentage of them.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

For me, helping others achieve those goals was almost just as exciting, because I knew how awesome it was to experience those things for myself. It was great to see/hear their reactions when others did the same.

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Well said. I don't even remember someone asking for help in LS chat yet in XIV, in XI ls chat was literally spammed by people asking for help for quests they could not complete on their own.

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Originally Posted by Teknoman

Well some really special spells should probably be learned, but normal spells should come with leveling imo. Sure some FF games make you buy spells (even the recent old school style 4 heroes of light) but for the most part, you learn standard spells via leveling.

Now if people had to do quests to learn Ultima/Meteor/Holy/etc. then that would be great.

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Agreed with that.

It just seems weird to me when I play a MMO (or any game for that matter) where you just automatically learn a spell the moment you hit an arbitrary level.

I have no problem with there being basic, "root" spells that mages start with... though even then I think I like the approach of having to learn them from someone or something.

Anyway, I would say at the very least, the basic "Level 1" version spells can be auto-learned... Maybe your character has learned enough other magic and grown proficient enough with it that the knowledge allows them to draw on energies to cast new ones... whatever the "mechanics" behind it might be.

However, to use more powerful versions of a given spell (levels II through IV), you have to seek out the scrolls, or some item, that you read from to learn it. Or perhaps are taught it by a NPC once they feel you are ready to learn it, maybe after finishing a quest for them to prove you are ready.

The higher power the spell, the harder it is to obtain.

Then you have the ones like you mentioned, Ultima, Holy, etc... those would be unique and uber-powerful spells that would definitely be difficult to obtain... but well worth the effort.

That would also play well into the theme of making progress and achieving milestones throughout your character's career.

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Originally Posted by Demacia

It took me three tries to beat Maat. Funny thing is both times I lost when I was all pumped up and focused, third try I logged on early saturday morning still half asleep like "Fuck it, let's just do this" and ended up winning. Beating CoP's airship battle pre-nerf after the 12th try? That was some shit I wanted to celebrate over.

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Ha! Very similar scenario for me. I got him on the 3rd attempt, and it was kind of a "throw away" attempt.

The first two times, I'd done my homework, checked out different strategies, got the different items I knew I'd need, etc... and lost. Horribly.

The third time was a freebie. I was helping someone else get their testimony - it was down in Monastic Cavern, if I recall - and a DRG Test. dropped... Since I was the only one in the group playing DRG who needed it, I got it.

So, just for kicks, I went in and gave it a shot. Was not nearly as prepared, and was much more "lax" about it. I didn't break any time records (especially with the current one when I did it being something like 48 seconds), but I beat the old geezer. I still have the screenshot of the combat log from it heheh.

It was pretty awesome. Great feeling to beat that guy, and have the way to 75 wide open from then on.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

WTF... maybe I am just unlucky. I have HQ tools and yet, statistically, these are the figures I get: around 1/20 - 1/30 when standard synthing and around 1/100 when Hasty Handing.

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I just know because in order to get 999 + change shards, I need about 65 Crystals.
Hasty Hand them and I typically get 1-2 HQ in there and 1-5 complete fails.

So it's just based on observation. I was selling shards for a while so I was doing this A LOT.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

I agree with most of your points, but these stuck out to me the most. The game desperately needs a sense of accomplishment and progression. I mean, how am I supposed to feel a sense of adventure when pretty much everything is already available from the start?

I hope Yoshi takes this to heart.

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I agree. The landscape is incredibly bland. I think it's probably beyond repair. The wastelands of emptiness are so void of character that a few generic looking quest hub huts aren't going to make them look more unique.

Quest rewards in XI included maps, scrolls and cutscenes with beautiful music. In XIV the reward is boring wall of text that's not important to read and some previously worn underpants from a generic NPC with zero personality.

Wow, yeah, the NPCs are generic.

I mean a lot of the Class Quest & certainly the Main Story has a lot of personality. I am attached to many of the NPCs I've worked with in those two areas (not all Classes, mind you, but Fishing for example has a great set of Quests).

The side-quests, heh, well you know Side-Quests are just Guildleves that weren't at a Adventurer Guild. I mean we asked for that. Guildleves are completely void of personality and now so are the NPCs that give "Side-Quests." Though I am partially appreciating the things I learn from Side-Quests that I didn't already know.

The NPCs, though, are super bland. I never feel connected to them at all.
They feel like automatons instead of personalities.

That's a great observation.

Many of my fondest memories in gaming came from FFXI. Seeing a thunderstorm in Qufim for the first time, or riding on my first Airship to Kazham with a couple of other people who had also never been. Seeing the level 25 mission dragon and thinking to myself "Oh my god, we are so dead." I even logged my character off at that peninsula overlooking the ruins of Tavnazia because I wanted to quit FFXI at a location that reminded me why I played FFXI in the first place.

The first time I entered Qufim I thought to myself "wow, this place is rather impressive. Why are people talking about seeking shelter at night? It can't be all that bad!" I would have never thought that Qufim would be a focal point for so many story elements and much of the game for, well, ever. It started off as an interesting place and got more and more fascinating once you learned that every element of the zone was important.
The first time I entered Coerthas I thought to myself "wow, this place is all messed up. I bet there's a ton of interesting things happening here and things that have happened in the past that I'll get to see!" Well, guess who was wrong!

FFXIV started off strong, but the story elements really weakened for a long time. I never felt like anything I did during any of the mission quests after the first one were of importance or significance (until the rank 46 one, that one was just awesome.) There just isn't that sense of awe seeing things anymore. Sure there's a few nifty things here and there, like the purple smokestacks in Thanalan, the Bahamut skeleton in Mor Dhona, and the huge city of Ishgard, but none of those things have anything to do with the game right now. They're just pointless decorations, no more of a boon to the game than the pretty flowers growing off the side of the road.

I thought that the reason I couldn't get that feeling anymore was that I was getting more difficult to impress. Maybe. But there's definitely times when I still feel genuinely in awe of the situation, or when I feel that I've overcome something great... they're just too far and few between, and I have yet to really feel that more than maybe twice in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Powercow

I thought that the reason I couldn't get that feeling anymore was that I was getting more difficult to impress. Maybe. But there's definitely times when I still feel genuinely in awe of the situation, or when I feel that I've overcome something great... they're just too far and few between, and I have yet to really feel that more than maybe twice in FFXIV.

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Nope, I don't think it's that you've become more difficult to impress at all. I've wondered the same thing.

Then I go and look at how much more carefully crafted everything is in XI, how much more detailed, how much more thought out and complex and how well some areas interplay with each other, and I realize - for me - SE set a a bar for themselves with XI and they simply haven't been able to meet it yet in XIV, much less exceed it.

Example... let's look at an early area dungeon from XI, compared to one from XIV.

Horutoto Ruins in XI, compared to, say, Cassiopeia Hollow. Both lower level dungeons, both pretty large.

Here's a link to the map for the Hollow

Now, here are links to the maps for Inner Horutoto Ruins (Click Here) and the Outer Ruins ( Click Here)

The first thing you notice is how differently they're set up.

The Hollow is pretty much one large area of rooms and corridors with nothing really going on. A generic, albeit pretty, dungeon.

The Ruins, however, are separated into sections and are riddled with interesting sights, weird contraptions and other various points of interest. Further, they tie directly into the game's lore which Windurst players are introduced to early on in the missions. There's tons of interplay between one map and another, as well as between Sarutabaruta and the Ruins, with all the entrances scattered about, accessing different parts of it (Eldiemme Necropolis has a very similar setup).

Beyond that, you have the Ruins connecting deeper still to the Toraimorai Canal - a high level area that exists right below Windurst itself, massive tree roots breaking through the walls and pouring into the area. And of course, the Canal connects to Full Moon Fountain, another area of significance in the story line.

And that's just one comparison. This same attention to detail pervades XI. Almost all dungeons have their own "theme" and their own set of puzzles to solve. There are secret rooms, strange contraptions, remote corners that are difficult, and often dangerous to get to... and on and on. Each dungeon has its own design style and "personality".

Another way to put it.. Dungeons in XI feel like Final Fantasy dungeons to me. Dungeons in XIV (and other aspects of it) so far have been more "put together" like you might find in any other generic MMORPG on the market.

Being someone who loves exploring new places, figuring things out and learning the history and secrets behind a location, my experience in trying to do so in XIV so far has been disappointing; there seems to be no secrets to reveal.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

Horutoto Ruins in XI, compared to, say, Cassiopeia Hollow. Both lower level dungeons, both pretty large.

Here's a link to the map for the Hollow

Now, here are links to the maps for Inner Horutoto Ruins (Click Here) and the Outer Ruins ( Click Here)

The first thing you notice is how differently they're set up.

The Hollow is pretty much one large area of rooms and corridors with nothing really going on. A generic, albeit pretty, dungeon.

The Ruins, however, are separated into sections and are riddled with interesting sights, weird contraptions and other various points of interest. Further, they tie directly into the game's lore which Windurst players are introduced to early on in the missions. There's tons of interplay between one map and another, as well as between Sarutabaruta and the Ruins, with all the entrances scattered about, accessing different parts of it (Eldiemme Necropolis has a very similar setup).

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Sorry but, I had to comment on this. Either you have some serious nostalgia going on or these ruins looked vastly different to you. Don't get me wrong, currently FFXIV's dungeons are pretty weaksauce, but to say the boring identical rooms of Horutoto that were connected by the same tunnels that were EVERYWHERE in FFXI was unique and interesting is just absolute bull.

You can try to embellish it as much as you'd like by intricately describing it whilst giving the Hollow (in this case) a bland and flavourless description (despite looking pretty damn gorgeous in the larger areas), that doesn't mean it's better.

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Originally Posted by Sephr

Sorry but, I had to comment on this. Either you have some serious nostalgia going on or these ruins looked vastly different to you. Don't get me wrong, currently FFXIV's dungeons are pretty weaksauce, but to say the boring identical rooms of Horutoto that were connected by the same tunnels that were EVERYWHERE in FFXI was unique and interesting is just absolute bull.

You can try to embellish it as much as you'd like by intricately describing it whilst giving the Hollow (in this case) a bland and flavourless description (despite looking pretty damn gorgeous in the larger areas), that doesn't mean it's better.

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No need to apologize.

Notice how I don't discuss them in terms of their overall graphics quality in my post - beyond a parenthetical aside about the Hollow looking good?

That's why your entire retort is absolutely moot. A strawman at best.

Also, I omit how they look because it really doesn't matter what area I'd chosen. I could have chosen Korrolloka Tunnel, or Sea Serpent Grotto or any other dungeon area in XI and used it. I chose the Ruins based on it being a low level area, comparable to the Hollow. It was not based on its graphics, at all.

My comparison is on the amount of care and detail that went into their creation in terms of layout, interactivity with other areas, hidden areas, puzzles, the amount of lore and importance they had - particularly in specific locations - in the world and its history, and so forth. The Ruins aren't merely a "dungeon". They're an ancient and very significant part of Vana'diel's history, especially Windurst's. I indicated, though perhaps not in so many words, how they maintain importance - even being "lower level" in how they lead to an important location in the game (Full-Moon fountain)...

The Hollow, by comparison, is a meandering tiled-together meshwork of colorful corridors and rooms. From what I've seen of them, other dungeons in XIV are no different. They have impressive graphics and some nicely detailed environment work... but not much else.

I deliberately left out the look of each area in my comparison, because XIV would take that, obviously, simply by virtue of being built on superior technology allowing a lot more mesh detail, higher detail textures, and more vibrant and dynamic lighting and shadowing.

It's also ironic that your response rests on a complaint of the Ruins "all looking the same", when excessive repetition in FFXIV's environments has been one of its biggest and longest-running complaints, going back to Alpha/Beta. Seems I'm not the one with a distorted perspective here.

You know, after playing for 8 years I finally went through the three mage door for in Horutoto for the first time? Now that's a cool way to open a door (Though it's kind of a bitch for the aspir quest).

I loved the OP, and all the follow up!!!

I just wanted to remind everyone, that isn't JP, that FFXI hit NA shelves with the Rise of Zilart expansion! Several zones, places, and things you enjoy in FFXI weren't even available for over a year in the true release of FFXI. Level cap was 50 also...

Give this game time! It will get better folks!

Tats

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Originally Posted by Tatsumaki

I loved the OP, and all the follow up!!!

I just wanted to remind everyone, that isn't JP, that FFXI hit NA shelves with the Rise of Zilart expansion! Several zones, places, and things you enjoy in FFXI weren't even available for over a year in the true release of FFXI. Level cap was 50 also...

Give this game time! It will get better folks!

Tats

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I call BS. The most drama that comes out from XI characters is from the different ministries and factions that are part of the main mission series that was available at launch. Sure they expanded it with additional quests later on but they already had a great base to work off from.

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Originally Posted by Seif

I call BS. The most drama that comes out from XI characters is from the different ministries and factions that are part of the main mission series that was available at launch. Sure they expanded it with additional quests later on but they already had a great base to work off from.

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it isnt bs, alot of the stuff people here are reminising about was ALL POST NA LAUNCH

it was all zilart expansion stuff

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Originally Posted by Tatsumaki

I loved the OP, and all the follow up!!!

I just wanted to remind everyone, that isn't JP, that FFXI hit NA shelves with the Rise of Zilart expansion! Several zones, places, and things you enjoy in FFXI weren't even available for over a year in the true release of FFXI. Level cap was 50 also...

Give this game time! It will get better folks!

Tats

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Original non-zilart zones are actually some of my favorites. Why do people keep finding excuses to defend XIV's release? yeah FFXI sucked at release, but it was their very first MMO.

I don't want to rain too much on this parade, but I'm going to say...

FFXI was my first MMO. I had tried Everquest for a minute (about a week) but I died over and over due to open world PvP or just sucking in general so XI was the first MMO I really sunk my teeth into. I played at NA launch. I was a long time FF fan, since the NA release of FF1 as a matter of fact. So keep all this in mind when I say...

I feel the same way you guys do, but I think it was because it was my first MMO. My real Golden Age of XI was my first trip to 75 and my first round of end-game content. Lots of my friends IRL played and we had a real good time. I loved exploring and I loved quests and lore and missions and fighting difficult fights.

WoW came out and we all decided to try it. There was a renewed spirit of adventure, but this time it lasted about 4-6 weeks. It didn't carry most of us through the whole year. Some friends did stay in WoW and others bounced back and forth, but I stuck it out in XI. I just couldn't get out of WoW what I had gotten out of XI - and often what I was still getting or at least what reminded me.

We all admitted to each other now and then that the "first year" we all played XI was a magic time that we'd probably never get to re-live again. No matter the MMO or the content or the game play. It was our first and it was very special for that reason most importantly.

Now, I'm not saying that is the ONLY reason XI was fun/special/good. I'm not saying that this is the ONLY reason XIV is bad. I just read all these posts about XI and I feel the exact same way, but I know that no matter the game I will probably never feel that way again about an MMO. It's like any good "first" that lives in you for a long, long time.

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Originally Posted by Shai

I don't want to rain too much on this parade, but I'm going to say...

FFXI was my first MMO. I had tried Everquest for a minute (about a week) but I died over and over due to open world PvP or just sucking in general so XI was the first MMO I really sunk my teeth into. I played at NA launch. I was a long time FF fan, since the NA release of FF1 as a matter of fact. So keep all this in mind when I say...

I feel the same way you guys do, but I think it was because it was my first MMO. My real Golden Age of XI was my first trip to 75 and my first round of end-game content. Lots of my friends IRL played and we had a real good time. I loved exploring and I loved quests and lore and missions and fighting difficult fights.

WoW came out and we all decided to try it. There was a renewed spirit of adventure, but this time it lasted about 4-6 weeks. It didn't carry most of us through the whole year. Some friends did stay in WoW and others bounced back and forth, but I stuck it out in XI. I just couldn't get out of WoW what I had gotten out of XI - and often what I was still getting or at least what reminded me.

We all admitted to each other now and then that the "first year" we all played XI was a magic time that we'd probably never get to re-live again. No matter the MMO or the content or the game play. It was our first and it was very special for that reason most importantly.

Now, I'm not saying that is the ONLY reason XI was fun/special/good. I'm not saying that this is the ONLY reason XIV is bad. I just read all these posts about XI and I feel the exact same way, but I know that no matter the game I will probably never feel that way again about an MMO. It's like any good "first" that lives in you for a long, long time.

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i think that really is one reason. FFXI also was my first mmo experience.
But still the biggest thing ffxi did (which it destroyed very fast with the latest lvl cap increases and the all-over no-capped fights) was the way content was treated and restricted.

The restrictions made way for accomplishment and the level capped fights (lets say a lvl 25 capped fight ) made fighting fun even in the 70+. Most mmos destroy their own content towards lvl cap by haveing a "high lvl friend" run you through the conent or dungeons => boring, stupid and frustrating.

This way most content of the game was available and fun to do at all times. I think that is something they really should stick to, since that is a feature worth keeping from ffxi. This could help other mmos as well who have problems that everything in their game is in one zone waiting for endgame to happen.

Like many said before: Zones, maps, subjob-activation, other jobs, etc. everything had to be achieved with usually other players and friends and also some soloquestchains (CHAINS lol not only one go here kill there, tataaa quests). Quest chains were everywhere. Some annoying but in the end rewarding!!!

The spells were buyable most of the time (money sink - important), but a lot had to be farmed, dropped from mobs, bcnms, which was fun, since it wasnt just "there" after you hit a level.
By giving us the spells just when we "ding" SE threw a lot of potential (questwise) straight out of the window.

Even worse, the mainquest/missions and the jobquests and their cutszenes (which lack in voiceacting - its not that expensive if you stick to important main/jobquests) were not too bad but there was not a single bit of challenge ANYWHERE. Not to mention that everything was empty in these instances (where were all the mobs when you enter the instance? instant death?...) and the few fights were a joke. They def. put efford into the cutszenes and some are nice to look at but... you dont feel involed and not important at all since... its so stupid and easy. Again here. Lotsa potential - Bossfights, party needed for accomplishment or at least 1-2 friends (which make an mmo an mmo- remember SE people, even when liking some solo content bought a multiplayer game not a singel player rpg) were just thrown out of the window again. I think that should be fixed as well, and be capped so it gets harder AND have the need of friends when doin it.

I think not even a classic single player orientated mmo made these huge mistakes (at least not the ones i tried and some were really bad lol).

This is surprisingly a constructive thread. I would have put money on flame wars. I agree with what almost everyone is saying here. I hate the fact that I walk out of Ul'duh at rank 1, run to a camp and do some leves. Then, ater at rank 40, I'm about 100 yards from where I started, doing the exact same thing and seeing the same monsters. So incredibly discouraging.

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

Less for being a douche.


btw, we all know how the game is now, 9000+thread of personal opinions and general complain like this and many others don't help much in developing something better. If your opinion is for make the game better, release some concrete feedback. (i'm not fighting you, but this is really boring right now. )

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no one needs your negitive comments

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Originally Posted by AtryxEtair

This is surprisingly a constructive thread.

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That's how I roll. (-.-)v

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

it isnt bs, alot of the stuff people here are reminising about was ALL POST NA LAUNCH

it was all zilart expansion stuff

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I would disagree.

I've seen specific examples given mostly regarding things that were in the game pre-Zilart. I personally chose lower level areas in my statements, which were lower level areas and there from day 1 of the JP launch. People have mentioned chocobo license, subjob, advanced jobs, airship pass, and so forth... all that was also in the game pre-Zilart. The entire storyline, for all 3 nations, up to at least rank 5 was in the game pre-Zilart.

Even excluding the post-Zilart content, XI was still far beyond what XIV was, and still is as of now.

I understand the point of your post, and I don't dismiss it. FFXIV will (hopefully) get bigger and better and to just give SE time.

The thing is, some of the things that this game is missing - specifically the sense of achievement and progress people are speaking of, was all there from day 1. It's currently noticeably missing from XIV, and many people, myself included, would really love to see SE make it a priority to work it into XIV as well.

The key is this: It isn't just a matter of adding more content that matters. It's the type of content, and how it's experienced that matters. Content can either evoke emotions that lead to long-term memories. Or, it can evoke boredom and be forgotten soon after it's completed. It's all in the approach.

FFXI release was way worse than FF14's. The servers barely worked, the game was buggy, and it had no content and nothing to do besides leveling. So many jobs were completely worthless, mobs were too weak, etc. There were so many problems with the game, you're delusional, in denial, or misinformed if you think FF11 release was any better than 14's. That games release was a disaster, we just didn't get to see it.

Hopefully they fix this game with an expansion(prob ps3 release) just like they fixed FF11 with Zilart/NA release ^-^

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

FFXI release was way worse than FF14's. The servers barely worked, the game was buggy, and it had no content and nothing to do besides leveling. So many jobs were completely worthless, mobs were too weak, etc. There were so many problems with the game, you're delusional, in denial, or misinformed if you think FF11 release was any better than 14's. That games release was a disaster, we just didn't get to see it.

Hopefully they fix this game with an expansion(prob ps3 release) just like they fixed FF11 with Zilart/NA release ^-^

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-sigh-

Someone made the assertion that what people are referring to from XI are things that didn't get included until after Zilart. I rebutted by stating that a lot of specifics given were in the game prior to Zilart and, in some cases, were there since day one... such as more carefully designed and crafted dungeon areas, etc.

None of those things have anything to do with server stability or bugs. In fact, neither "bugs" nor "server stability" has even been part of the discussion in this thread, until 'til you decided to pull them out of thin air to counter an argument I never made.

I'm not "delusional" about anything. Everything I've said is 100% accurate.

You, however, seem to be arguing against a point no one has made... so... Have fun with that I guess?

I was saying the game was so broken that even the servers didn't work properly. At least this game worked, that one didn't at release. It also had far less content, mobs were just as weak,etc. Basically the game was a bigger mess than this one is currently. It got fixed, and I'm hoping this game gets fixed too.

The game was crap at release, this game is crap. A lot of people seem to not know how bad FF11 was at release, and think this game is far worse. That's my point.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

I was saying the game was so broken that even the servers didn't work properly. At least this game worked, that one didn't at release. It also had far less content, mobs were just as weak,etc. Basically the game was a bigger mess than this one is currently. It got fixed, and I'm hoping this game gets fixed too.

The game was crap at release, this game is crap. A lot of people seem to not know how bad FF11 was at release, and think this game is far worse. That's my point.

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Okay... Point made.

Still not sure what that has to do with the topic of this thread.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

I would disagree.

I've seen specific examples given mostly regarding things that were in the game pre-Zilart. I personally chose lower level areas in my statements, which were lower level areas and there from day 1 of the JP launch. People have mentioned chocobo license, subjob, advanced jobs, airship pass, and so forth... all that was also in the game pre-Zilart. The entire storyline, for all 3 nations, up to at least rank 5 was in the game pre-Zilart.

Even excluding the post-Zilart content, XI was still far beyond what XIV was, and still is as of now.

I understand the point of your post, and I don't dismiss it. FFXIV will (hopefully) get bigger and better and to just give SE time.

The thing is, some of the things that this game is missing - specifically the sense of achievement and progress people are speaking of, was all there from day 1. It's currently noticeably missing from XIV, and many people, myself included, would really love to see SE make it a priority to work it into XIV as well.

The key is this: It isn't just a matter of adding more content that matters. It's the type of content, and how it's experienced that matters. Content can either evoke emotions that lead to long-term memories. Or, it can evoke boredom and be forgotten soon after it's completed. It's all in the approach.

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I agree personally I've been in Zilrat areas in my entire play-time TWICE in the years I've played XI. All my time so far has been taken mostly by the main missions that were included in the launch package and while I like some of the quest cutscenes I think the main missions are the best kind of content for me personally. I don't see the same level of writing in XIV anywhere not even close.

People diss XI story because it's simple but guess what; the best game stories have always been simple. ICO, Shadow of The Colossus, Ocarina of Time, Skies of Arcadia, Grandia 2 and so on. The magic is in the way it's presented to the player and the characters that are never less than interesting.