History repeats itself: Time for the Great Archer Nerf of 2011

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Originally Posted by JayvirDeforte

Your opinion = fact now? Good to know.

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History is a class. It has a purpose. One of those purposes is to keep you from doing what you're doing right this second. Repeating mistakes.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

I agree, archers should be weaker. I mean they can attack from far away and bind mobs. Come on. They should do mid damage at most.
Maybe keep the sick damage on like really expensive arrows they can't use all the time.

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Bind doesnt work worth a damn anyways. And yes, the crazy damage does stem a lot from proper gear. Anyone who says archers are overpowered hasnt seen a proper Marauder or Lancer

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

I vote we nerf CON because it can cure for more than Archer and while we are at it nerf THM because it can debuff better. Lets go the whole hog and nerf everything because every class does something better than Archer and we can't have a class being better at something than another now can we.

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I don't care what you do to con. Conjurer needs to be watched like a hawk too because of what BLACK MAGE proved it would do to the game if we let it.

Black mages got their nerf too. Nerf it. See what I do. It won't be to level the next fad job.

Hey guys my MRD can tank All of the NM's, nerf it. That's Gladiator's job!

Don't try telling me anything else because it's fact!!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by JayvirDeforte

Bind doesnt work worth a damn anyways. And yes, the crazy damage does stem a lot from proper gear. Anyone who says archers are overpowered hasnt seen a proper Marauder or Lancer

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Nope. Your lancer gets its ass kicked by your archer. Our marauders and lancers have the best gear in the game. They can't keep up on the parser.

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Originally Posted by Isaaru

Hey guys my MRD can tank All of the NM's, nerf it. That's Gladiator's job!

Don't try telling me anything else because it's fact!!!!!!!!!!!

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Oh look, another archer. I can main heal all of the NMs on marauder. You were already proven wrong by history, because your father, Mr. Ranger, was as poorly designed as you are know. You can therefore already tell what will happen to you in the future. You are your father's ranger.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Can't be pulled off by any other job, period. If there's any job that should have the ability to stack 3 hits, archer is the last job on the list because of its other advantages.

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Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it's not possible. And you can't stack Multishot with a WS... So don't assume he had three shots on that one from the vid, it was one.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

You all don't have the maturity to not choose 6 archers and 2 thaumaturges to beat difficutly-designed content. None of us do. Again, we've already proven that that's what we'll do if archer stays like it is.

6 archers and 2 thaumaturges are what we will throw at any difficult content, because difficult MMO content EJECTS meleers the SECOND they start getting AoE'd and "feeding it TP."

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And here's where you lose me..."You all?" You don't even know us. Your posts are full of assumption on the part of the players. Get over it. There are a lot of us who DO look for challenges in games. Plenty of us who DO try to solo things that aren't meant to be. And plenty of us who DON'T choose 6 archers for easy mode.

BTW, there's also TP gain mitigation via Battle Regimens and skills, so you're arguements about feeding the mob TP are irrelevant. Also, casting AoE cures cost no more than single target, so "MP Sponges" don't really exist. Not to mention MP is so plentiful in this game now, it doesn't cause any downtime between mobs.

You're basing your stance against Archers on XI mechanics. This is a different game.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Nope. Your lancer gets its ass kicked by your archer. Our marauders and lancers have the best gear in the game. They can't keep up on the parser.

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Keep telling yourself that buddy.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

I just watched an archer do 3k damage in one weaponskill on youtube. I have a screenshot of an archer doing 3k damage on dodore. Do YOU know how archer works? cause...everyone else flocking to it does.

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lol 3k ws on dodo....

link or troll...

Peregrine, you don't make any sense.

And btw I've been playing ARC since release, never had played RNG in FFXI. I Ranked MRD because I got bored on just ARC. Now I play them both equally.

AGAIN: Wait until they release their job system before discussing a nerf, why do you think THM still hasn't been nerfed? Oh wait you don't think, that's why you made this thread.

Archer is one of the most fun classes in the game i think, and ive tried them all. It doesnt feel overpowered at all, it feels just right. I just managed to solo the NM Spitfire which is the second hardest after Cactus Jack, but it wasnt because Archer is overpowered its was only possible with skills from other classes like cures, and siphon mp, bloodbath, second wind.. etc etc, and constant shadowbinds and kiting. Archer cant tank for shit but makes up for it in dmg and binds.

The only thing that seems somewhat overpowered is the intial multishot attack with 100% accuracy on all 3 arrows, maybe if they mde the first arrow 100% and the other 2 arrows success based on your accuracy it wouldnt feel so OP.

All classes gonna get balanced continualy over the course of the game, it will never be perfect.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LJTr...&feature=feedu

One minute on dodore.
http://static.ffxiah.com/images/ffxi...4gloI4X10R.png
That's a light shot, by the way.

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hard time with mats....you need at least multiplicate it x 2,5 to do 3k....

and i have done even more dmg on dodo with br doomspike ...

so??

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Originally Posted by Ayerc

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it's not possible. And you can't stack Multishot with a WS... So don't assume he had three shots on that one from the vid, it was one.



And here's where you lose me..."You all?" You don't even know us. Your posts are full of assumption on the part of the players. Get over it. There are a lot of us who DO look for challenges in games. Plenty of us who DO try to solo things that aren't meant to be. And plenty of us who DON'T choose 6 archers for easy mode.

BTW, there's also TP gain mitigation via Battle Regimens and skills, so you're arguements about feeding the mob TP are irrelevant. Also, casting AoE cures cost no more than single target, so "MP Sponges" don't really exist. Not to mention MP is so plentiful in this game now, it doesn't cause any downtime between mobs.

You're basing your stance against Archers on XI mechanics. This is a different game.

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Your "challenges" that you look for will be conveniently solved by a pack of archers. You'll archer it up and ask for harder content while the gladiator, lancer, pugilist, marauder conjurer pugilist group was like wait a minute that was really unf...NOPE harder content!

Archer archer archer archer thaumaturge thaumaturge: That was easy too! Harder!
Gladiator: Ok now you all wouldn't even let me come to that fight...

Archer archer thaumaturge thaumaturge thaumaturge thaumaturge: WOW that new one was hard, we had to switch it up!
Archer: w...wait I didn't have thaumaturge level...

Thaumaturge/archerx6: Gimp!

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Originally Posted by Isaaru

Peregrine, you don't make any sense.

And btw I've been playing ARC since release, never had played RNG in FFXI. I Ranked MRD because I got bored on just ARC. Now I play them both equally.

AGAIN: Wait until they release their job system before discussing a nerf, why do you think THM still hasn't been nerfed? Oh wait you don't think, that's why you made this thread.

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The arguement is as obvious as day. This is ranger, again. 5 years of painful FFXI mechanics started exactly like this.
Some of thaumaturge's abilities should have never even been cleared. The only reason thaumaturge isn't running away with the game is because nuking is so watered down compared to XI.

Rangering isn't. Nerf it. Again, doesn't surprise me that the thread is full of archers screaming NO. Of course it is. It was in FFXI too. Oh they raged and raged. But they were nerfed all the same.

Make rangers about as crappy as I am. There lol...how do you like THAT? Let's both stay out of AoE range together. Yay weak and safe!

Wow he did a little less than 3k on a lvl 37 mob when hes R50 in ur video. Who gives a flying fuck??? I can do the same damage with my CON without using like 5 buffs and paying gil for every attacks. MRD and LNC can also hit multiple mobs with regular attacks making em more than worth it against groups while ARC is very strong against 1 mob since multi shot doesent work with special attacks.
ARC are not OP one bit. This thread is just fail.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Your "challenges" that you look for will be conveniently solved by a pack of archers. You'll archer it up and ask for harder content while the gladiator, lancer, pugilist, marauder conjurer pugilist group was like wait a minute that was really unf...NOPE harder content!

Archer archer archer archer thaumaturge thaumaturge: That was easy too! Harder!
Gladiator: Ok now you all wouldn't even let me come to that fight...

Archer archer thaumaturge thaumaturge thaumaturge thaumaturge: WOW that new one was hard, we had to switch it up!
Archer: w...wait I didn't have thaumaturge level...

Thaumaturge/archerx6: Gimp!

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Wow, you must've stopped reading...so I will too. There's no reasoning with blind rage.

Nerf Archer???

OVER MY COLD ROTTING CORPSE!!!!

Archer is probably the most balanced job in the game, and you want to make it suck??? Good thing you aren't a dev.

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Originally Posted by JayvirDeforte

Bind doesnt work worth a damn anyways. And yes, the crazy damage does stem a lot from proper gear. Anyone who says archers are overpowered hasnt seen a proper Marauder or Lancer

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Im playing with a arc buddy....

we have almost the same/best gear in game...

I have champion hq and he has crab hq+coral...

on dodo i hit almost doubble on white dmg and with SSII i hit like 1.5times while he hits 1...

doomspike hits harder then all other ws in game..

sure he has MS, Trifu and BB debuff so prolly he keeps up in the long time...

There is no much difference in dps between the 2 classes.

He sure pown me away on stupid-easy-casual-crap leves... but really, who cares?

I have better def and he pay for dmg...

there is no need to nerf arc....

I played FFXI for 5 years... and yes, rngs nerf was needed....

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Originally Posted by Magiksmurf

Wow he did a little less than 3k on a lvl 37 mob when hes R50 in ur video. Who gives a flying fuck??? I can do the same damage with my CON without using like 5 buffs and paying gil for every attacks. MRD and LNC can also hit multiple mobs with regular attacks making em more than worth it against groups while ARC is very strong against 1 mob since multi shot doesent work with special attacks.
ARC are not OP one bit. This thread is just fail.

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You can't hit that tailed diremite for what he did. I have a jade crook+3 and the highest potency or accuracy available in the game. Do you?

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

Nerf Archer???

OVER MY COLD ROTTING CORPSE!!!!

Archer is probably the most balanced job in the game, and you want to make it suck??? Good thing you aren't a dev.

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Another archer!
"the most balanced job in the game"...aka the overpowered one that I chose to play because it's overpowered.

Lots of rangers said this right before they got their nerfs. Square Enix may not want to nerf you all, but they will be nerfing you all regardless because they have to.

Add archer to yet another mistake that this team clearly did not learn from FFXI. Well, no matter. You will see, and they will sit in the disaster they allowed if they don't fix it now. It's only going to get worse. It's already bad enough.

Why hasn't this thread been deleted yet.....

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Originally Posted by Reika

Why hasn't this thread been deleted yet.....

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There's nothing wrong with the thread. Problems started when users stared throwing the word "butthurt" around.
Archer needs a nerf to spare it three years of painful class imbreeding and elitism. Simple enough, clear enough.

Everyone's flocking to archer right. On. Time.

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Originally Posted by Reika

Why hasn't this thread been deleted yet.....

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Because Peregrine's ignorance is amusing.

Like others have said Archer is only good for burst DMG so yeah stacking Multishot and Raging Strike is great at the start of a fight and because mobs are so weak most of the time half their HP bar will vanish and then people think that you are OP.

I did the crab NM the other day and on Archer I was doing about 20-30 DMG a hit so I switched to MRD and I was doing 100-120 a hit. Archer is a great class and I have loads of fun playing it but it is not because it is OP.

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Originally Posted by Isaaru

Because Peregrine's ignorance is amusing.

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I'm the only one, save for one other person, who is not ignorant. You're the ignorant group. You've forgotten the history lesson already provided to you.

You are the hedge fund investors of 2013 who forget all too quickly.

Yup about 7 years is enough to make most people to revert to historic ignorance. Again, right on time.

I dunno man, i wouldnt be surprised if i could beat that on my pug, i can already do like 700 dmg with victimize on them and im 40.
The burst is a pretty hax tool though i admit, because it allows you to get tp, but then again lnc is really fast dmg as well, and has tp skills, i think archer rules the burst, but who rules the over time? back when i ran with an archer in party his effectiveness used to go down when we were chaining mobs, in long drawn out fights / non stop fights we were kind of passing gim up. Of course this was early, things may change at like level 30+, he switched to mostly lnc before that.

I would go with the buff others rather than the nerf stick if it really is straight up better though. I still think it may be situational, or playestyle though.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

Like others have said Archer is only good for burst DMG so yeah stacking Multishot and Raging Strike is great at the start of a fight and because mobs are so weak most of the time half their HP bar will vanish and then people think that you are OP.

I did the crab NM the other day and on Archer I was doing about 20-30 DMG a hit so I switched to MRD and I was doing 100-120 a hit. Archer is a great class and I have loads of fun playing it but it is not because it is OP.

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Oh so it's good for burst damage. So it's like Black mage in XI. Oh that's better. Gee, that job never gave us ANY problems, did it?

Guess what you can do with 8 spike damages at once. Wait wait, don't guess. Again, learn your history.

Screw it, the answer is "everything, immediately"

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Originally Posted by Physic

I would go with the buff others rather than the nerf stick if it really is straight up better though. I still think it may be situational, or playestyle though.

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6 of one, half dozen of the other. The History lesson is clear. To be balanced, meleers require higher damage potential than archers because of archers unavoidable advantages at staying far away from a mob.

Archers don't get stomped. If the great buffalo were any harder, which we all want it to be, then the stomp would tear the meleers up. What would be the solution? Replace them with thaumaturges and archers.

Someone either needs paid or needs to pay. Meleers either need paid for standing on the front line and taking it, or archers need to pay for the luxury of staying back. Archers have 40 foot long swords. Pay for it.

Gil is not a currency for battle performance. We proved that already, so don't even argue it again.

Peregrine, you do know SE is reworking the attribute formulas to make them more viable right? That could very well fix this "issue" you speak of.

And claiming everyone is ignorant when the only class you seem to know anything about is Conjurer (if you even properly know how to play that) is a silly thing to do. Here's a lesson for you: Have knowledge of what you're talking about before you start a debate about it.

The only reason they had to be nerfed in XI was because ninja subjob made them untouchable. SE should make sure that archers stay defensively weak + hate magnets.

I think you are missing something here about Archer. Archer can do big weapon skills because they have access to a 4 and 5 hit weapon skill. As far as I am aware most other classes don't have their multi-hit ones yet.

When you see them put out the really big numbers it is always with Quick Nock which is 5 hits.

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Originally Posted by Isaaru

Peregrine, you do know SE is reworking the attribute formulas to make them more viable right? That could very well fix this "issue" you speak of.

And claiming everyone is ignorant when the only class you seem to know anything about is Conjurer (if you even properly know how to play that) is a silly thing to do. Here's a lesson for you: Have knowledge of what you're talking about before you start a debate about it.

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Lol says the guy who clearly hasn't learned from history, to the one who clearly has.
Again, I'm right, because I've already watched you all do this before. I do have knowledge. You don't. You think your situation is new and unique, when your situation is old, done, and expected.

The only solution is nerfing. Otherwise, the same thing will happen.

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Originally Posted by Ilean

The only reason they had to be nerfed in XI was because ninja subjob made them untouchable. SE should make sure that archers stay defensively weak + hate magnets.

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Again, expected argument, easy response. The solution to an archer being weak defensively is to stack the party with more archers who are hitting the enemy just as hard as everyone else. The only problem with a weak defense archer is that the other damagers are so far behind it in enmity. So the solution is to kick the pug. Get another archer. Kick the marauder. Get an archer. Kick the glad...why do we need someone who does 1% of the party's damage any more if we can get another archer to bounce hate onto when needed?

Oh great 3 of our 6 archers have cure III. Jimmy will you tell the thaumaturge to equip provoke if they want to stay in the party, and kick the conjurer? Thanks. Oh and get that archer to replace them.

How does an archer lose hate instantly when it has to? If only archer had an ability to shed instant enmity so that the enemy would go to another target! What will they ever do?

Oh right.

Wow no PVP and you guys are arguing over the OP of the Archer....EPIC FAIL get over it.....
I think FFXIV has bigger problems than the archer right now and I don't think they really care.

green with envy are we....I don't see too many archers running around just a healthy amount so quit whining
and go back to grinding out your careers shut up and play

So just because its the highest damage class it should be nerfed? It deserves to be the strongest dd in the game:

Every attack costs gil
Its a glass cannon job, soloing tough mobs is impossible and strong mobs kill us quickly
Really archers arent even the strongest hit for it, we just have abilities that give us a high burst. Like someone said, hit for hit other jobs like MRD do as much, if not more dmg.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

I think you are missing something here about Archer. Archer can do big weapon skills because they have access to a 4 and 5 hit weapon skill. As far as I am aware most other classes don't have their multi-hit ones yet.

When you see them put out the really big numbers it is always with Quick Nock which is 5 hits.

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So yeah, that's fine, but you can't argue that archer should be overpowered because the other jobs might not be done yet. Hello, eveyrone is already flocking to archer as we speak. Game's sustaining balance corruption right now. The game's so full of archers that bows are about the only weapons that sell any more. Lord knows the carpenters love it.

If you want to unlock that marauder ability that triples damage, unlock it. Now.
Pugilist has multi-hit weaponskills. Simian thrash is 9 attacks! Maybe 9 attacks at...13% power. Wonderful!
If you want to give me an ability that triples damage and triples MP consumption, do it.

A lot of people are saying wait for the battle engine overhaul...that's fine. If it's the archer nerf, than it's the archer nerf. There's going to be one sooner or later. Square Enix already knows that everyone's flocking to archer like it's the next summoner in abyssea.

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Originally Posted by RexSkyborn

So just because its the highest damage class it should be nerfed? It deserves to be the strongest dd in the game:

Every attack costs gil
Its a glass cannon job, soloing tough mobs is impossible and strong mobs kill us quickly
Really archers arent even the strongest hit for it, we just have abilities that give us a high burst. Like someone said, hit for hit other jobs like MRD do as much, if not more dmg.

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Olde. Your idea has already been proven wrong in the thread. You don't deserve a thing simply because you buy arrows. Your reward has been paid in full: avoiding enemy melee and aoe range.

You probably couldn't even afford to be a XI ranger, and that argument STILL didn't save them from the hammer.

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Originally Posted by Silvyaniss

Wow no PVP and you guys are arguing over the OP of the Archer....EPIC FAIL get over it.....
I think FFXIV has bigger problems than the archer right now and I don't think they really care.

green with envy are we....I don't see too many archers running around just a healthy amount so quit whining
and go back to grinding out your careers shut up and play

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It's actually one of the biggest problems. XIV is shedding diversity faster than a chains of promathia static. There are really only two jobs. Archer and thaumaturge. I mean what is a gladiator? Waste of a damage spot, really. And a meleer? Well a meleer is just an archer with a short, gimp stick.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Olde. Your idea has already been proven wrong in the thread.

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It seems that your proof has already been proven wrong.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

It's actually one of the biggest problems. XIV is shedding diversity faster than a chains of promathia static. There are really only two jobs. Archer and thaumaturge. I mean what is a gladiator? Waste of a damage spot, really. And a meleer? Well a meleer is just an archer with a short, gimp stick.

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Source? Stop using opinion as fact?

Its true, i was doing about 2800 dmg with a fully buffed Doomspike 2, while Jayvir was only doing between 2100-2300 dmg with his skills.

Lancer also does about as much dmg hit for hit with normal attacks. Archer can just do more damage faster with multishot.