@Amdapor Keep Whiners

I say to promote people to not speed run have the tome drops increased from tash mobs and lower the rewards for completing dungeons.

Trash Mobs drop 5 tomes per kill.

Bosses drops 15 tomes per kill.

complete dungeon drops 15 tomes.

The whole reason they speed run is not just because it is faster but because the rewards for simply completing the dungeon is more rewarding than killing everything in the dungeon and taking your time.

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Originally Posted by Chiruru53

I fail to see your point. what's so terrible about watching a guide on a fight? Did you never study for tests in school? Or by your logic did you just go into every test and just wing it? a 5 minute video isn't asking a lot. I hated doing it myself as well before. Then I one day decided hey. I'm going to watch this guide. 5 minutes isn't a lot. and lo and behold, I did, and hey, I still had fun in the fight AND I wasn't holding anyone back! WOW!

And if everyone stopped playing like you people love to say, your precious game wouldn't last very long now would it. So give it up with that tired old response, it's unoriginal and seriously getting old.

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Reading the answer sheet is the same as studying. Sure thing.

Do you buy strategy guides for all your games too?

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Originally Posted by Chiruru53

I said research a dungeon before you enter and it greatly decreases the amount of screwups. Speed running consists of mostly skipping trash. You do not need to research trash. Is youtubing a boss fight really too hard to ask that you need to have people sit and type it out for you when you can just watch?
5 minute video is hard.

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What's with your attitude?
Is watching a YouTube video hard? No, you're so pro.
It's also not a requirement to playing a game. Some people, I would venture to say most, just want to experience and enjoy the game. Not be met with homework material and prerequisite video studies before every encounter.
You're the type of person that needs to buy Brady guides and piggyback off of others' youtube videos to beat content, we get it. Many people enjoy figuring things out for themselves and don't need people like you telling them how to enjoy a game or how to play.

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Originally Posted by AridElf

Yeah I know not everyone is, and I will one day set foot inside there and maybe even finish the main storyline, but that bitterness left behind from an aggressive team is hard to shake off. Heck, I got screamed at for watching the cutscenes in Darkhold and we did it flawlessly on my first run..

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Yeah it is hard to shake off :/. Same here but with the last story part. I wish you the best though!

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Originally Posted by Chiruru53

You should probably read my entire post before saying I dont read anything when you obviously didn't read mine. I said research a dungeon before you enter and it greatly decreases the amount of screwups. Speed running consists of mostly skipping trash. You do not need to research trash. Is youtubing a boss fight really too hard to ask that you need to have people sit and type it out for you when you can just watch?
5 minute video is hard.

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That kind of ruins the "OH SNAP!" factor though when you first encounter the boss. However, in this case I understand what you're saying seeing as how most of the people react to new tanks (or just players in general) on this dungeon. It really shouldn't have to be like that though.

If it weren't for the fact that my connection to the JP servers sucks, I'd never plan on transferring.

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Originally Posted by Shonie

What's with your attitude?
Is watching a YouTube video hard? No, you're so pro.
It's also not a requirement to playing a game. Some people, I would venture to say most, just want to experience and enjoy the game. Not be met with homework material and prerequisite video studies before every encounter.
You're the type of person that needs to buy Brady guides and piggyback off of others' youtube videos to beat content, we get it. Many people enjoy figuring things out for themselves and don't need people like you telling them how to enjoy a game or how to play. Whhheee wheeeee Boo hoo stop making a casual like me actually put effort into something

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Originally Posted by Tiraelina

Reading the answer sheet is the same as studying. Sure thing.

Do you buy strategy guides for all your games too? My logic makes no sense!

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Watching a video just to get a general idea of a difficult fight makes me a pro? Shut up.. Is watching a video for a dungeon that you know willbe difficult THAT unreasonable? Whats the difference between this and having one of the members sit there having to type and type out an explanation out, inconviencing him when you can just look at a video clip. I'm sure you look at stupider things on youtube than that. Would you rather go in and have no idea what you're doing and mess it up for everyone else and waste their time just cause you don't feel like sitting down and watching it for five measly minutes? It's selfish. I would reccomend researching for duty finder. For friends who also want to learn YOUR way, maybe not so much. SO stop with your unwarrented "justification" for being plain lazy. Yes it's a game. But also be aware there are people who would appreciate someone who at least takes the time to know something about the fight before they start it. "Oh, I hear titan (hard) is called hard for a reason, maybe I should take a look"

This is called consideration for others rather than yourself. Get used to it.

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Originally Posted by Shonie

Settle down nerdrage

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And with that losing response....

Settle down nerdrage

People rarely listen when you explain anyway, so why even bother trying anymore. The minority that does listen isn't present often enough to justify doing it.

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Originally Posted by Chiruru53

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You really need to settle down right now.

Yes it is good to take time and watch a video but right now proper strategy videos have not be fully created yet due to how early the game been released.

Most people in Endgame are rushing to get the best gear right now rather than focusing on making actual strategy guide videos.

Each strategy video must cover the three rolls: Tanking, DD, and healing.

The video also need to explain what each role must do at certain stages of the fight.

There is also issue of making certain the video is actually a strategy video and not a video about showing off.

Showing off videos will not show everything a person needs to know about the fight like a Strategy video will. Showing off videos are made to show what the boss fight is like in their perspective but will not provide a direct explanation of what is happened and why Person A perfrom this action While Person B perform this action.

Right now there is a strong lack of strategy videos to explain things for player and videos now are mostly showing off videos to show what the fight is like from their perspective rather than provide a direct expanation of what needs to be done by the Tank, DD, and healer.

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Originally Posted by Chiruru53

"Oh, I hear titan (hard) is called hard for a reason, maybe I should take a look"

This is called consideration for others rather than yourself. Get used to it..

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The group I ended up in for Titan had no idea what to expect. It ended up as the most enjoyable fight so far, trial and error ftw. I find little enjoyment in knowing everything the first time. It's just a grind from the start in those cases. Which kills a good deal of the perspective fun.

Consideration for other people would be taking 5-20 seconds to list what to look out for rather than demand they watch a 5~ min video before they dare use DF.

If you're at the point where speedruns are ideal, you're probably level 50, meaning there isn't much of an excuse to not have a FC/group who also want to speedrun. In which case, why are you using DF to begin with? This is a MMO, the idea is to make friends? Leave DF for first attempts and/or for desperation (keep your expectations in check).

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Originally Posted by Avengedangel

It really shouldn't have to be like that though.

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It is like that in every MMO. Tanks simply have to know the dungeon. I had this discussion with the retards on the ffxiv sub-reddit yesterday as well, they refuse to acknowledge the fact. It is what it is, neckbeards be mad.

Either you go in unprepared, possibly spending 5 times as much time as just looking at a video real quick and you're happy with people moaning at you for it, or you don't. That's your options, end of story.

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Originally Posted by FluffyM

*snip*

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If that's their opinion on the subject, that's their opinion. Doesn't necessarily make them retarded for having it.

It only seems to be the case with this dungeon as far as 'having to know it' goes (for me anyways). Prior to that, everyone (the PUG groups that I was paired up with) were all fine with me being new to the dungeon, some of them were new themselves, and no one 'moaned' about anything when things went wrong. If a problem occurred, it didn't really matter because we'd work together and form a strategy to fix whatever the issue was. Simple, nonaggressive, non-whiny conversation. IMO, I prefer learning from trial and error than using a guide from the start. But that's just me.

When it came to Amdapor, I felt like had to adjust to the whole speed run thing since more than half the groups I'd pair up with would request it, but it wasn't too big of a deal for me since one of the groups were nice enough and willing to take the time to teach me anyways. :)

While it is true that it is what it is, if more people were willing to teach than to insult the straight away, things probably wouldn't be as bad as they are now. But it's whatever I guess.

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Originally Posted by Reiterpallasch

Wow you people really don't understand what a speed run is do you? You make it seem like it's some big fucking mystery that a new player can't figure out. Do you know what it is? You skip trash. YOU SKIP TRASH. Like are you people serious with the "i dun no wut do" bullshit? For real?

This is how bad it is with you people. A rough idea of what was said in a recent run:

(Tank) Lets do a speed run.
(Noob) No I don't want to do a speed run!
(Tank) Why not?
(Noob) They're scary!
(Me) Ok, well are you fine with just skipping trash to make things faster?
(Noob) Yeah that's fine.
(Me) (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻


By "all content" do you mean a single dungeon that need to be run roughly 60 times to gear ONE job? Ok, cool, thought so! I need to facedesk now from what you said, + an extra time for each like your BS of a comment got.

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and with this you win the thread. This completely sums it up.They consider themselves complete idiots that don't know what to do with themselves unless they kill each and every trash mob that yields NO reward other than broken gear (how nice). It's selfish for them to want people to sit through that just for their "immersion" repeated times.

Why does everyone want to rush this game?

Calm down. Do the whole dungeon. What? Do you suck that much you can't do the whole dungeon? You must have just came from WoW.

The game launched just under three weeks ago and you guys can't handle anything that requires a little bit of effort or time involved.

This is directed towards everyone who:
- Complains this game is too hard.
- Complains that everything should be handed out to them.
- Forces everyone to do "speed runs" of every dungeon.
- Complains that everything takes too long.

Ugh.

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Originally Posted by misterrpg

Why does everyone want to rush this game?

Calm down. Do the whole dungeon. What? Do you suck that much you can't do the whole dungeon? You must have just came from WoW.

The game launched just under three weeks ago and you guys can't handle anything that requires a little bit of effort or time involved.



This is directed towards everyone who:
- Complains this game is too hard.
- Complains that everything should be handed out to them.
- Forces everyone to do "speed runs" of every dungeon.
- Complains that everything takes too long.

Ugh.

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facepalm.jpg

If you want me to clear Amdapor Keep over and over, pay me the repair bill.

It costs way more to clear all dungeon then just dieing 2 times, and at 50 gil is scarce.

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Originally Posted by Chiruru53

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FWIW, some people, enjoy learning as we play the game and not being handed all the answers. That is not being selfish, that is simply their way of getting the most out of their gaming experience. In my opinion, it is selfish of you to expect EVERYONE to go and study how to do a speed run, before they ever get to the dungeon. Sorry, but I am not interested in watching a walkthrough video before I ever set foot in the dungeon myself.

Its kind of moronic to enter the general population duty finder and expect that everyone that joins your group is going to be a pro-status person who is looking to speed through the dungeon with you. There is a reason FC's and LS's exist..that way like-minded individuals can congregate and play with one another..so you don't have to play with people who are not on the same page as yourself.

p.s. this 1000 character limit is garbage.

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Originally Posted by ilJumperMT

Before you even whine about speed runs, how about making trash mobs drop something useful!?

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So, how about you make a thread asking for trash to have drops rather than attempt to insult the people complaining about speed runs. I'm sure you'd be more likely to get their support for your cause.

Why do people against the other people doing speed run to begin with?

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Originally Posted by Hikozaemon

2.boss chest drop 1 Mage gear 1 Tank gear 1DPS gear even sub boss chests.

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You deserve like, a dollar for that. Seriously.

I get that 'random is random!' but going 8-9 dungeons without seeing a single piece of Mage gear drop (even a piece I don't need) has been super frustrating.

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Originally Posted by Tari-F

I've stated this elsewhere, but I don't think most people have an issue with the idea of speedrunning itself. It's more the problem that speedrunning has caused in duty finder, where anyone new to a dungeon has a high chance of being abandoned on the grounds of "no experience" or wanting to run it normally on their first time.

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As another thread pointed out, it's a specific set of player types causing the rift, namely a lot of the Legacy or 'let's rush to 50' types. This definitely needs some address by SE, and quickly before the old community destroys the new with its toxicity. Speed running in and of itself is great, but vamoosing before even taking a minute or two to explain the strategy is just flat-out asinine.

The OP's post-title is a premium example of that attitude, although the post is informative.

Even new people rarely have problems with speed runs when I explain what is going on, and how to do boss mechanics. If you can't figure out what went wrong after your first attempt, you should probably go back to WoW.

I didn't read the whole thread, so what I'm going to say might have been said aleready.

I understand people who are doing this for the first time wanting to do it while killing everything. The problem is that once you realise that it is the most viable source of Allegan Tombstones of Mythology, you want to spam the dungeon. You want to cap your maximum of 300 tombstones per week to get those flashy Relic armor and +1 relic weapon. The dungeon rewards 40 Allegan tombstones of mythology, meaning that if you want to get your 300 per week, you need to do Amdapor Keep 8 times in your week. You will do it even more if you help your friends cap their tombstones, or simply because you want tombstones of philosophy (you also get 90 of those).

Now, when you think that you have to do the dungeon a minimum of 8 times per week, would you rather it taking an hour or 25 mins? To me, the choice isn't very hard, 4h of running instead of 8 to cap my stones means more time to work on Titan to get my relic, to craft, gather or level up something else...

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Originally Posted by Chiruru53

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In some parts of the world its called actually playing the game and learning things for yourself. Whats even worse is players like yourself usually can't even think for yourselves.

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Originally Posted by neverendingxsin

Why do you guys want to kill the SAME TRASH MOBS EVERY SINGLE RUN?!?! Its a waste of time especially if its the same group going every time.

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Why do you guys want to kill the SAME BOSSES EVERY SINGLE RUN?!?1ELEVENTY It[']s a waste of time[,] especially if it[']s the same group going every time.

I'd call into question why you keep going into Amdapor Keep repeatedly anyway. If it's for the tomestones, then that there is your incentive to run the dungeon, and you run it for those stones. But it's not the only dungeon that drops tomestones, now is it? Now, I'd think all mobs should drop something, some parts for crafting materials at the least. But the silly, excessive, and frankly WoW-esque suggestions for making the trash viable on their own seems misplaced. Sure the mobs could give EXP, but then the tomestone drops make up for that, do they not.

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Originally Posted by Balaur

I'd call into question why you keep going into Amdapor Keep repeatedly anyway. If it's for the tomestones, then that there is your incentive to run the dungeon, and you run it for those stones. But it's not the only dungeon that drops tomestones, now is it? Now, I'd think all mobs should drop something, some parts for crafting materials at the least. But the silly, excessive, and frankly WoW-esque suggestions for making the trash viable on their own seems misplaced. Sure the mobs could give EXP, but then the tomestone drops make up for that, do they not.

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It's the only dungeon that awards mythology tombstones (aside from Binding Coil of bahamut, for which you must have beaten Titan hard to gain access). So yes, it's pretty much the only dungeon you can spam to farm those tombstones. Even beating Garuda hard gives only 15 myth tombstones, while Amdapor Keep gives 40...

I think all that matters here is communication. I've had only two AK run, the first one someone left and no one else joined, second one they briefed me up on how to do the speed run, and why, and once I see them doing it I completely understand why they did it. Let's say it's your first time, and you don't want to speed run, how about giving it a try? If you still don't see why those people do speed run after being showed it once, then I guess it's just not really your thing and should find your group that wants to do a non-speed run. But keep in mind, that everyone's way of enjoying themselves is different, and people's play time are limited. At the very least what you can do if your opinion differs is cast a vote between the 4 members of your party.

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Originally Posted by Vod

Even new people rarely have problems with speed runs when I explain what is going on, and how to do boss mechanics. If you can't figure out what went wrong after your first attempt, you should probably go back to WoW.

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I get your point, but I don't understand this community's fascination with trying to burn WoW to the ground. This game is a cakewalk by comparison.

I went here for the first time yesterday with two friends and a random PUG DPS. As it was my first time, I wanted to see the whole place & not just run to the bosses. The random PUG DPS point blank refused to help & went afk at the entrance. We cleared up to the first boss & he suddenly made an appearance.

I quit out of the dungeon & took the 15 minute hit. There was no way we were going to let him AFK between bosses, so the whole place would take us even longer, for a "speed run". As a DPS his queue time to find another group would be longer than us taking extra time to clear the trash mobs.

So far I have found the community in this game to one of the best. If this is what to expect now I am at level 50, I am not so sure.

BTW, he also rolled need on a minion we got from a chest by clearing trash mobs. Fortunately he didn't win.

EDIT: Hadn't read most of this thread before posting, but damn, I was wrong about the community in this game. If this thread is anything to go by, it's one of the worst I have ever seen. If you want to do a speed run, go with your free company, not through the duty finder. You're all so elitist why do you use the duty finder anyway? Surely with your skills you have people clamoring to group up with you for dungeons and you don't need some random 'noob' to help you out.

My personal issue with speed runs is the fear SE will punish me by stripping me of anything I earned as a result of doing speed runs, or something much worse.

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Originally Posted by Tiraelina

In some parts of the world its called actually playing the game and learning things for yourself. Whats even worse is players like yourself usually can't even think for yourselves.

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Cat people....

Except as I stated before I used to never watch videos for anything. I played FFXI for seven years, didn't watch a single video fight, played WoW for two years, got pretty far, didn't watch a single video. Know why? cause the repair bills (one game didn't even have any) weren't ridiculous and we at least had a way to make up for them!

This game, not so much. Saying I don't think for myself just because I want to watch a video to get a general idea of what to expect so I can act appropriately to avoid flaming in duty finder which CAN AND WILL HAPPEN is the most ignorant, uninspired response anyone can think of. If I mess up badly on titan, especially since I'm a healer, people WILL EXPLODE since a huge amount of the fight success depends on ME. If I die, EVERYONE suffers for it. DPS will die, tanks will die, baby seals will die, people will get mad. Your insults aimed at me are terribly weak.

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Originally Posted by Zyeriis

If you're at the point where speedruns are ideal, you're probably level 50, meaning there isn't much of an excuse to not have a FC/group who also want to speedrun. In which case, why are you using DF to begin with? This is a MMO, the idea is to make friends? Leave DF for first attempts and/or for desperation (keep your expectations in check).

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Actually I opted to join a FC/LS that was full of laid back players who are not that hardcore into endgame, if at all.
I want speed runs to make the incredibly tedious process of getting tomestones etc somewhat less tedious.
I watch the videos so I can teach the newer members (the ls and fc has a ton of them!) what to expect if I'm ever needed to and so I myself know what to expect.

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Originally Posted by Raksu

i wont play tank before they fix speed runs. its looks very expensive for tanks and make u angry. all thouse times watching tank rush and healer get trash aggro and dps or healer fails in bosses and need make new rush to boss room.

Feel sorry for tanks:/

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Except more often than not it's the tanks asking to do the speed runs.

i wont play tank before they fix speed runs. its looks very expensive for tanks and make u angry. all thouse times watching tank rush and healer get trash aggro and dps or healer fails in bosses and need make new rush to boss room.

Feel sorry for tanks:/

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Originally Posted by Chiruru53

I fail to see your point. what's so terrible about watching a guide on a fight? Did you never study for tests in school? Or by your logic did you just go into every test and just wing it? a 5 minute video isn't asking a lot. I hated doing it myself as well before. Then I one day decided hey. I'm going to watch this guide. 5 minutes isn't a lot. and lo and behold, I did, and hey, I still had fun in the fight AND I wasn't holding anyone back! WOW!

And if everyone stopped playing like you people love to say, your precious game wouldn't last very long now would it. So give it up with that tired old response, it's unoriginal and seriously getting old.

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So using that logic, do you work an extra hour or two at your job for free to get better at it? Didn't think so.
This is a game I play, not a job. I already have one of those.

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Originally Posted by Raksu

i wont play tank before they fix speed runs. its looks very expensive for tanks and make u angry. all thouse times watching tank rush and healer get trash aggro and dps or healer fails in bosses and need make new rush to boss room.

Feel sorry for tanks:/

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Get it thru your head. Its cheaper even for tank to die 3 times then clearing all trash.

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Originally Posted by Meklore

So using that logic, do you work an extra hour or two at your job for free to get better at it? Didn't think so.
This is a game I play, not a job. I already have one of those.

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Actually I HAVE done that numerous times. it's called volunteer work. lol.

Say what you will about speed running or not speed running, when I get to running AK (pretty soon) I intend to just stick to my server and avoid the cross-server duty finder altogether. That way I can form up a party where everyone is on the same page, rather than finding myself in a war zone over something that shouldn't even be an issue. I mean, it's pretty clear that dying to trash so that others can skip it and rez you isn't intended. I'm not foaming at the mouth here, but you've got to be crazy if you think Square designed it thinking people would skip the trash via tank death. They would have just created it without trash.

I hope they do something about this soon, people are pretty justified in feeling like they're being robbed of their dungeon crawling experience. A lot of people aren't necessarily about farming as hard as they can for gear they know they'll get eventually. If that means increasing rewards for killing trash or making it impossible to skip, either way I don't care. Just fix it so threads like this and groups like the ones described stop happening.

EDIT: When I say "groups like the ones described" I mean ones where fallout occurs over this issue. I don't care if you want to speed run in your own party.

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Originally Posted by AridElf

I'd love to do AK but I'm pretty sure nobody wants a tank who doesn't know how to do the speed run, let alone teach them. I'll just go back to everything else and avoid the rest of the high level stuff, doesn't sound too fun if this thread is anything to go by.

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If you explain that you want to speed run also, just ask for boss strats, they will like you regardless, or they can go back to thier 30m queue.
And sometimes u want to clear a few packs of adds anyway.

My first AK run today was a waste of time. Queued for 25 minutes and because the tank was on his first run the healer and another DPS decided to leave. So I had to go queue again too. I like speed as much as the next person but if the community can't play nice SE has to step in and they will kill speed runs.

Imagine being a new player, you finally beat the story and begin end game and you encounter this crap. It's not nice and SE will lose subs as a result.

You even get people doing the same on Castrum, forcing people to skip the story cutscenes or they leave.

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Originally Posted by Xenor

My first AK run today was a waste of time. Queued for 25 minutes and because the tank was on his first run the healer and another DPS decided to leave. So I had to go queue again too. I like speed as much as the next person but if the community can't play nice SE has to step in and they will kill speed runs.

Imagine being a new player, you finally beat the story and begin end game and you encounter this crap. It's not nice and SE will lose subs as a result.

You even get people doing the same on Castrum, forcing people to skip the story cutscenes or they leave.

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Crap like that is what is turning people away from wanting to tank.

When I first got to the end and saw that, I knew more BS was to come.

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Originally Posted by Chiruru53

ANNNND there goes your credibility.
and also, our insane repair bills and lack of means to make gil at any reasonable, decent rate make me unable to care less how many of you would rather sit and look at stone buildings or whatever or kill the same mob over and over for about an hour or so. Do that on your own time with your friends who share your wants and desires please.

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Why don't you circumvent the game with your friends! Why are we in the duty finder who want to RUN a dungeon the ones to blame here? If you want to do 'speed' runs find 3 friends and you can do them all day long no one is going to care.

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Originally Posted by Avengedangel

Crap like that is what is turning people away from wanting to tank.

When I first got to the end and saw that, I knew more BS was to come.

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The weird part is it's usually the tanks and healers that do the leaving. Since they're so in demand they can hold a party to ransom because if they leave it's over. If a DPS leaves who cares, a replacement will spawn within a minute. So you do it their way or not at all.

There's a simple solution. The dungeon drops 40 mythology and 90 philosophy. Just give 1 philosophy for every trash mob killed and 10, 15, 15 mythology for the bosses.