titan hard (hard for high latency)

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Originally Posted by Rillifane

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lol @ you talking about you something you don't even know.
Who told you I got fibre optic? No I don't.
Do you know my ISP? No you don't.
Do you actually know how much I ping on other MMOs? No you don't, I ping much better in any other MMO.

Do you live in europe? Did you kill Titan?

OP, if you have a ping of 100ms, that's not 1 second worth of lag, that's 1/10th of a second of lag. I love when people exaggerate...

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Originally Posted by Azrael

lol @ you talking about you something you don't even know.
Who told you I got fibre optic? No I don't.
Do you know my ISP? No you don't.
Do you actually know how much I ping on other MMOs? No you don't, I ping much better in any other MMO.

Do you live in europe? Did you kill Titan?

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Obviously you haven't read my posts or else you'd know where i'm from, looks like you are someone who doesn't know what they are talking about so here are some key words for you. ADSL through a copper phone line. Another hint: America doesn't do this.

I don't understand why people complain about 100ms.
I'm from EU and play other games just fine at 100ms. Even LoL which is REAL TIME ACTION.

The real problem here is not the latency, it's the mechanic of the attack animations. There are countless threads about it so I'm not gonna bother anyone else with it.
Basically, all that matters is the cast bar, and not what you see.

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Originally Posted by HumsterMKX

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Sorry can you point out the part where he gave any inclination of doing so? "having more than 100ms makes the fight impossible, AoE goes off in 2seconds and you have 1second to react because of lag" is essentially his post. Which makes it sound like he waited for visual confirmation before even attempting to react/move.

Again, I never said these guys are bad, but some of us have been dealing with the latency 'issue' for a long time, and have made concious decisions to work at, and adapt to it. Does it make us better players? Maybe, but that isn't what we're discussing. It is further insult to suggest 100ms is the cutoff point for when things become 'impossible'.

Latency is a factor, but again, unless you're sitting on something ridiculously high like 300-400+, it is not the only factor in play that is making an essentially predictable mechanic, impossible, especially as there are 'tactics' to manage it a little.

I was doing this fight earlier with my JP FC, was running at 430ms, made things interesting. Found I just had to move constantly to avoid the aoe circles he does. (Thankfully I was bard so I could move around a lot). Was certainly frustrating though. (Am in NZ BTW). We didn't win, and now I'm locked out via 1017 errors. Will have to reattempt tomorrow!

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Originally Posted by Rillifane

Because you claimed it's not a problem that skillful players can dodge AoE's their-fore by logic that bad people are being hit by them so things need to be adjusted so the bads can get out

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And what makes you think they are bad players? Nice fore logic by the way.

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Originally Posted by Jynxii

I had a friend pulled it off at 160 ping without getting hit by his pools. I'm not saying higher latency doesn't make some encounters and mechanics harder, but when others are complaining about 100ms causing them to get hit by stuff, when people with higher latency manage to pull it off just fine, things really need to be questioned.

A lot of mechanics become quite predictable and even randomly placed mechanics can be estimated in their timing and prepared for.

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The problem with this is there is an intended game mechanic that isn't working like it should be, now because some people can "adapt" or when you "learn" his pattern to "predict" his movements that is not how the content is suppose to be run, it's like arguing they put in those trash mobs just so you skip them all in those "speed runs" in Amdapor keep. ;)

i play from middle east and the latency is around 300ms and can dodge all those AOEs. saying that i noticed that some people have lag spikes on titan (alot of them are from EU) and have seen this topic about isps limiting connection so am guessing it has to do with that. overall the game isnt that annoying with lag so people need to adjust a little bit.

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Originally Posted by Drar

I was doing this fight earlier with my JP FC, was running at 430ms, made things interesting. Found I just had to move constantly to avoid the aoe circles he does. (Thankfully I was bard so I could move around a lot). Was certainly frustrating though. (Am in NZ BTW). We didn't win, and now I'm locked out via 1017 errors. Will have to reattempt tomorrow!

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Congrats you just found out your char is not at where he/she should be. Its like having a shadow behind you , depending on how laggy you are, the further you need to move to get out of the dangerzone.

Timed correctly you can move into AOE zone without taking dmg, because the hitbox have notvreach there.

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Originally Posted by Rillifane

I already answered your question, if you were unable to process the answer you are beyond help.

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You didnt, you just used fore logic/spidey sense/I must be right sense. So you played with them to come to your judgment?

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Originally Posted by HumsterMKX

You didnt, you just used fore logic/spidey sense/I must be right sense. So you played with them to come to your judgment?

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Again you didn't seem to process the answer properly, you question is answered. But i'm sure you will eventually get it once the latency that occurs between you reading the words and your brain understanding it has passed.

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Originally Posted by Asmodeus

The problem with this is there is an intended game mechanic that isn't working like it should be

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Wait, did you just say you shouldn't have to learn/know boss mechanics in order to beat them? Yes the fight is probably designed with a specific latency number in mind, and I'd estimate it to be ~100ms (the impossible threshold!) if not a little higher, but it does not mean they can not be accomplished with higher latency. How do you consistently clear content? From learning it. There have been a few fights I've walked into completely blind, have died miserably and absolutely loved that it offered me something different from standard tank and spank mechanics.

It is like arguing you should win a marathon after spending the last 12 months on the couch eating chips and drinking coke, and then blaming the rain for you not winning/finishing.

Latency can be a factor, but having 'untrained skills' can, and generally are larger ones.

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Originally Posted by Azrael

No, my internet connection is not wrong,

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Answer this question without resorting to being rude or contradicting yourself:

How is it many of us can complete this fight without issue on both NA/EU and JP Datacenters? Remember, don't say: "Your internet is better" or anything equivillent or you'll be admitting your internet is just bad.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Answer this question without resorting to being rude or contradicting yourself:

How is it many of us can complete this fight without issue on both NA/EU and JP Datacenters? Remember, don't say: "Your internet is better" or anything equivillent or you'll be admitting your internet is just bad.

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lol wtf are you saying?
where did I say "your internet connection is better"? the guy said my internet connection is bad, not the other way around.
If my internet connection works on most MMOs, and alot of people got my same problem in this game, it can't be my fault.

Plus the answer was given, and you skipped alot of pages to read, do that before rushing to say something.

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Originally Posted by Azrael

lol wtf are you saying?
where did I say "your internet connection is better"? the guy said my internet connection is bad, not the other way around.
If my internet connection works on most MMOs, and alot of people got my same problem in this game, it can't be my fault.

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And far too many have completed it without issue therefore...?

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

And far too many have completed it without issue therefore...?

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Where are these MANY people that completed it that are not JP or NA?

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Originally Posted by Azrael

lol wtf are you saying?

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Just because it works for "most mmo's" doesn't mean it will work properly for _everything_ your ISP still has to handle the routing traffic for your data and for each service that goes through they will handle the data differently based upon were it's going to go or what kind of data they think it is, for all you know your ISP could handle the data correctly for World of Warcraft, but for Final Fantasy XIV: ARR they could be fudging up the data transfer and sending you down a bad path or throttling you as in the dev post about ISP's handling the data like it's a p2p program. So you can not use "i'm fine for other mmo's" when each situation is handled differently.

Not to mention Jennestia never said that you said the connection is better, they asked you to answer their question _without saying_ "the connection is better".

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Originally Posted by Rillifane

Not to mention Jennestia never said that you said the connection is better, they asked you to answer their question _without saying_ "the connection is better".

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Yes clearly everyone here got a problem with his own connections, servers work fine.

Plus:

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

Yes. Your internet connection is really wrong in fact

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The line quoted from Jennesta was an answer to this response, do you actually see any question here?

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Originally Posted by Azrael

Yes clearly everyone here got a problem with his own connections, servers work fine.

Plus:



The line quoted from Jennesta was an answer to this response, do you actually see any question here?

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Yes and then Jennesta asked you, basically how do you know your internet connection is not wrong, and how are other people from europe who connect to NA/EU and JP data centres are able to complete these fights without problem yet you who claim that your internet isn't bad is having difficulties, and then they stipulated that you must not say that the people who have completed these battles without problems have a better connection than you. It seems you failed to understand their question to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Rillifane

Yes and then Jennesta asked you, basically how do you know your internet connection is not wrong, and how are other people from europe who connect to NA/EU and JP data centres are able to complete these fights without problem yet you who claim that your internet isn't bad is having difficulties, and then they stipulated that you must not say that the people who have completed these battles without problems have a better connection than you. It seems you failed to understand their question to begin with.

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No it seemed you failed to read the whole discussion, everything was answered, read and try again.

Plus still find me these many non NA/JP people that completed it.

Oh and I never talked about ISP, I (and everyone) is talking about localization.

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Originally Posted by Azrael

Where are these MANY people that completed it that are not JP or NA?

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The sample size is only those present and posting, and as people will complain because they feel 'wronged' way before they will compliment when things are going fine, the sample will always be skewed into the favour of 'something is wrong'. This isn't to say such a problem doesn't exist, or that the sample should be discounted, just that it should be taken for what it is, and not a definitive, "Yep this is EXACTLY what is happening in ALL cases" result.

Only real way to definitively decide whether it is latency or player problem is to get everyone into the same area and have them do the encounter under the same conditions. Although I'd go on to predict that those who developed 'skills' to deal with increased latency would do better regardless.

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Originally Posted by Azrael

No it seemed you failed to read the whole discussion, everything was answered, read and try again.

Plus still find me these many non NA/JP people that completed it.

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I have read everything, you misunderstood their question and still have not answered it, why don't you log in to the game and well you know talk to people? lol you'll find them easily.

But here is also an example WITH a video of EU people completing it, wasn't so hard for you to do it yourself, guess you were just lazy which might explain why you have difficulty with AoE's too. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...e-EU-nonlegacy

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Originally Posted by Rillifane

I have read everything, you misunderstood their question and still have not answered it, why don't you log in to the game and well you know talk to people? lol you'll find them easily.

But here is also an example WITH a video of EU people completing it, wasn't so hard for you to do it yourself, guess you were just lazy which might explain why you have difficulty with AoE's too. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...e-EU-nonlegacy

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And on this forum you will have huge samples of people who can't, a group or two that can kill it won't make the difference.

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Originally Posted by Azrael

And on this forum you will have huge samples of people who can't, a group or two that can kill it won't make the difference.

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And there is a huge sample size on the forum that don't have your problem who are also NOT in the group that are getting the p2p throttling by their ISP.

You are an idiot. Latency is affecting the outcome of players in HM Titan period. Should I record a video to show you how I dodge it every single time and still get hit, so you can stop arguing?

May be let's see if someone over 300 ms latency can win tune-5 of Coil of Bahamut or not. By 3 months time it will tell whether that content simply only allow people who live near data-center to win or not, because as far as I know it is far worse than titan.

Content for only local JP and NA only? w

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Originally Posted by Azrael

No, my internet connection is not wrong, I live in Italy and servers are in Canada, that's happening just because we don't have a real EU server, where NA people ping 20 ms.

I can play smoothly on any other MMO at around 30-40 ms, because they got EU servers, while SE don't give a shit about EU players

Edit: looks like you are italian too, so we got the same connection.
Nice to see you confirming that some people must defend the indifendible, I'm pretty sure you ping about the same as me.

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And you're wrong. Standard adsl, ping 140 in canada. Hardly make any difference
Also, it's funny when wiping to a boss the excuse it's always the lag. In 1.0 there was REAL lag, and that didn't stopped people to kill ifrit extreme. Apparently here it's different

There is a luck factor to it as well, you can get lucky and not have the puddles appear in bad positions for you. So 1 high latency player may get lucky or carried.

Im in eu and i have noticed the aoe lag. Especially visible on titan. I have been hit by landslide even when i have moved 45% degrees away from titan. Puddles will hit me too.
It is especially bad when you try to do instants while running. You can pretty much guarantee getting hit outside of aoes by move-instant casting.

What i recommend for eu players is to play bard lol. Smn has it easier then blm too. Or play a tank , they have it easier this fight (though they need to be geared) Healers and blm get screwed by the aoe lag the most.

It's just SE their servers and coding,not your latency.
Yes if you have 20 ms it's a bit better than 200 and it will allow you to dodge the stuff a but better.
How ever it doesn't remove the fact that you play with a delay of 0.5 to 0.7 second by default.
Bit if lag and you're screwed.

While latency occurs in every MMO it tends to be masked better than this.
Take WOW I can play it with 100 ms to 150 ms and don't encounter the massive delays I have in this game.

SE did accepted this as a bug so we'll see if they fix their servers.
Other wise you just have to eat it or learn how to work around it.

I'm honestly shocked people are still defending this, even after SE acknowledged it some two months ago.

And yes, having problems here too; I've been steps away and still getting hit. Titan HM is where the issues with the coding all come and rear their ugly faces.

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Originally Posted by Rillifane

So are you saying everything should be adjusted so bad players can complete it?

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/facepalm

Quote the whole context next time.

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Originally Posted by Jynxii

As a side note: Square, please don't dumb down boss mechanics because people 'lag' and fail to actually attempt to better themselves or their tactics to complete the encounters, even though they suffer from the 'impossible' 200ms threshold. Pretty sure every other MMO over the last 5-6 years have catered for this crowd already and some of us actually like the challenge.

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Yes plz. We dont want an easy mode MMO.
/10chars

High pings do put you at a massive disadvantage, if you are on a mage class I recommend you watch Mr Happy's video on Titan, learn his ability rotation off by heart, and sprint when you know Weight of the Land is up next, this is the ability which affects high pings worst. I have been able to consistently avoid on a 280ms ping using this method, but for a class which requires it's tp, clearing this fight is unrealistic for players with this kind of latency. The problem is all testing is done in house, extremely close to the servers, those are the conditions the fight is balanced for.

Also, SE have accepted this as a problem (and not the one that Cyril is mentioning, they admitted EU pings to be an issue 2 days ago), its in their accepted bugs forum, so hopefully some kind of lag compensation is on the way.

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Originally Posted by Sneakaboo

It's just SE their servers and coding,not your latency.
Yes if you have 20 ms it's a bit better than 200 and it will allow you to dodge the stuff a but better.
How ever it doesn't remove the fact that you play with a delay of 0.5 to 0.7 second by default.
Bit if lag and you're screwed.

While latency occurs in every MMO it tends to be masked better than this.
Take WOW I can play it with 100 ms to 150 ms and don't encounter the massive delays I have in this game.

SE did accepted this as a bug so we'll see if they fix their servers.
Other wise you just have to eat it or learn how to work around it.

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Pretty much this.

Now, I am not exactly in the OP's camp, I dodge scary AoE's just fine.. but I am hoping SE does something about the ugly delay in this game. Nearly everything you do has some kind of visual or easily apparent delay attached to it. It sucks.

I play about 4 feet from my girlfriend. I can watch her screen and mine at the same time. Whenever she executes an action I can easily see the massive delay on my screen. I don't see her action instantly, I see it half a second later. We're in California with a decent high-speed cable connection. Other games have this "delay" as well but it seems much more apparent in FFXIV ARR. Doesn't feel right, doesn't look right. I do admit it is an improvement over 1.0 though.

Here's hoping something can be done.

Have the development team said why they're improving the Duty Finder thingy/servers? I haven't seen anything about it, granted I really didn't look hard enough nor cared enough, but you might even go so far and say that this is a known issue. My Internet is just a crap 115mbps, I only run into these issues during DF instances though. As you can see I play on a JP server but I live in NA. I've never had these issues with field mobs.

As I said before I learned to compensate for the invisible lag shadow, by moving and skill cancelling.

All you people on the "U bad" bandwagon honestly need to stop. It doesn't help anyone and it makes you look foolish. Someone posted a video about it on another thread showing them getting hit after they've moved. You've no case here and you're just making yourself look dumb.

EU Datacenter.

/thread

The problem is the server only updates your location every 0.3 seconds, so regardless of location you have the potential to occasionally be running at 300ms.

It is getting tiring reading people calling players who get hit by AOE's bads, it's been accepted by SE as being a genuine problem and if you can watch this and feel that this is good game design, please never get into the industry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5g4TM1fkCg

The difficulty of a fight should be in coordinating your team, reacting to inconsistent mechanics, maximising your output amongst many other things, NOT in praying the datacenter has registered your new location, the competition has this, why should we accept it in FFXIV?

Here's a link to this over in the accepted bug forums. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...s-everybody%29

For me the thing is just wonky. Have no problem dodging things playing normally, but get into a duty finder battle and it becomes a different story. Just for some comparisons, I can dodge Svara's AoEs without any problems with the horde of people there for the most part, but there is almost nothing I can do to avoid Titan's Landslide when he uses it on me, or Chimera's Blue Eyes for example. The one time I was caught in Garuda's move where have to be behind the rocks, I was behind a rock. Granted these are not the hard mode fights, but when there is a discrepancy between dodging things in dungeons and the world, something odd is going on.

There is no problem with Titan, if you have any lag you need to more out of aoe ASAP. Do not finish your cast while you are in an aoe! I'm in Australia on a Japanese server, of course I have over 100 ping >.>. I downed him too.

Don't blame the game for your inability to move out of aoe just because you want to finish your cast.