ranged attack on every monster?

QD kite/solo was great as COR.

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Originally Posted by PikachuLink

And this new issue is?

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My guess is them re-balancing the entire game's battle system for every mob and every job/class.

"Bind" is like the most absolute worthless spell in this game cause of that =/

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Originally Posted by Magiksmurf

"Bind" is like the most absolute worthless spell in this game cause of that =/

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Bind is the most aboslute worthelss spell in this game because of how much players fell back on it to win their fights for them when they got too hard. Spells hit like wet noodles and more like DPS meleers because of how much players abused spike damagex6's.

This is all a countermeasure for how horrible FFXI got from 2003 to 2007. And now the only guy paying attention, Tanaka, is out of the picture and all these problems will come raging back.

It's a mistake to take these ranged attacks out of the game. There are already too many incentives and advantages to staying at ranged distance. If anything, more mobs should have the equivalent of tail whip for ranged distance so that if a mob turns on a player at a far distance from them, it wipes players in a ring around them, sparing the meleers...and KILLING the rangers and mages.

Hey, it happens to meleers when we get tail whipped. Fair is fair.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Bind is the most aboslute worthelss spell in this game because of how much players fell back on it to win their fights for them when they got too hard. Spells hit like wet noodles and more like DPS meleers because of how much players abused spike damagex6's.

This is all a countermeasure for how horrible FFXI got from 2003 to 2007. And now the only guy paying attention, Tanaka, is out of the picture and all these problems will come raging back.

It's a mistake to take these ranged attacks out of the game. There are already too many incentives and advantages to staying at ranged distance. If anything, more mobs should have the equivalent of tail whip for ranged distance so that if a mob turns on a player at a far distance from them, it wipes players in a ring around them, sparing the meleers...and KILLING the rangers and mages.

Hey, it happens to meleers when we get tail whipped. Fair is fair.

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You mean the famous Spike Flail? They could name it exactly that, too, and it'll be just as horrifying.^^

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Originally Posted by Kallera

You mean the famous Spike Flail? They could name it exactly that, too, and it'll be just as horrifying.^^

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Yeah, except for ranged attackers. Massive damage in a ring around the mob, sparing the middle. Oh whoa, whoa, being biased against mages and archers and favoring the gimp pugs? The MELEERS? Why, my monacle is in my tea, sir! They belong in the corner watching me kill it for them!

Or, say, if too much damage is being received by ranged attackers, massive draw in and ensuing pain. Punish players for brining too many mages and archers to a fight, because otherwise that's what they will want to bring to every hard fight there is.

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Originally Posted by Ayerc

While I appreciate the response, that was about as vague as a politician trying to explain policy. So the issue lead to another issue that needs to be addressed before the first issue can be resolved. Got it.

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If you havent noticed this by now it seems SE's policy when it comes to this game is to do just that be as vague as possible, give as little information as possible or answer a question with a question. .....

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Originally Posted by Shikyo

If you havent noticed this by now it seems SE's policy when it comes to this game is to do just that be as vague as possible, give as little information as possible or answer a question with a question. .....

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People complain when they get answers.

People complain when they don't.

People complain when they get info

People complain when they don't.

I'd be vague too lol.

thing was, ranged attacks were mostly elemental, and shell used to own magic attacks, so it was a bit safer, also ranged attacks used to be really slow, and you have no danger of weaponskills, ,which are usually monsters big damage skills. So yeah its and advantage.

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Originally Posted by Corrderio

Bad programming? That's the only thing I can think of. Since why would a new issue arise just by locking enemies out of a ranged attack?

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I think the new issue is "path block".

Stay behind a path that mob can not walk across and keep shooting the non-range attack mob.

I think the new issue will be dragging mobs to the edge of their territory and picking them off from there as when they come near to you they will wander off back to camp if they don't have ranged attack

This was a bad problem before they addressed the leashing issue in Nov.

Now, I'm not saying no enemies should have ranged, just that its not necessary to have ALL of them.

the other thing is we run as fast as monsters do, so without ranged we can always escape fights. I do think that having everyone with ranged attacks was for a definite reason, and removing it will require a lot of new solutions/changes.

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Originally Posted by Physic

the other thing is we run as fast as monsters do, so without ranged we can always escape fights. I do think that having everyone with ranged attacks was for a definite reason, and removing it will require a lot of new solutions/changes.

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Thats what I thought of immediately. It takes aggro'd mobs longer to engage you than it did in FFXI. You'd be able to run right through every aggroable mob with no danger... There'd be no point to it.

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Originally Posted by Shikyo

one word dumb! every mob having a ranged attack is stupid as hell, and i hope they change it, this is just proof that no matter what there is someone in the world that eats crap on their pancakes =/

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What is stupid is hell is binding birds so they don't attack, silencing worms so they don't attack, kiting kirin so it doesn't attack, and basically all the stupid tactics that you clearly want that clearly are just easy ways out of fighting something.

Your motives are perfectly obvious. You don't want the ranged attacks there, so you can figure out a way to kill something that can't hit you back.

That is, the sneezes are working exactly. As. Intended. Again, Tanaka saw people looking to exploit ranged attacks from a mile away and had goats spit on them as a response.

I'd take the hint.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

I think the new issue will be dragging mobs to the edge of their territory and picking them off from there as when they come near to you they will wander off back to camp if they don't have ranged attack

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Simple fix to that would be to have the mob disengage immediately after it begins to return to territory, not be re-engage-able until it completely returns to where you engaged it at, and have its HP instantly recovered when it gets there.

I don't care if they remove it from standard mobs as it can get a bit annoying. However they could still ensure every NM still has a ranged attack to discourage any long drawn out bind/kite solos.

peregrine have some bitterness for Archer....lol

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

What is stupid is hell is binding birds so they don't attack, silencing worms so they don't attack, kiting kirin so it doesn't attack, and basically all the stupid tactics that you clearly want that clearly are just easy ways out of fighting something.

Your motives are perfectly obvious. You don't want the ranged attacks there, so you can figure out a way to kill something that can't hit you back.

That is, the sneezes are working exactly. As. Intended. Again, Tanaka saw people looking to exploit ranged attacks from a mile away and had goats spit on them as a response.

I'd take the hint.

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I completely agree on your stand as I also feel the same way. I'm hoping Yoshi-P is aware enough to keep chances for cheap tactics cut to the barest minimum. People talked about how much of a "challenge" XI had and most others met that challenge the easiest way as possible. Why use melee DD when you could have a rdm(or bst) kite and black mages nuke it without stress of taking a hit(example). This is something that was obviously seen by Tanaka during his reign with intent to abolish the chances for such tactics.

If Yoshi-P removes these range attacks from standard mobs I will have no objection. However, he should not take it away from NMs, Dungeon Bosses, or just the main content in general. Kiting is one lowball tactic and would love if it would not be allowed again on content that matters. If someone wants to kite a standard dodo then by all means go ahead and have fun. However, If i'm facing some NM or "boss" that proved his worth NOBODY should have it running around in a circle like an idiot while being shot with magic and arrows in the back.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

What is stupid is hell is binding birds so they don't attack, silencing worms so they don't attack, kiting kirin so it doesn't attack, and basically all the stupid tactics that you clearly want that clearly are just easy ways out of fighting something.

Your motives are perfectly obvious. You don't want the ranged attacks there, so you can figure out a way to kill something that can't hit you back.

That is, the sneezes are working exactly. As. Intended. Again, Tanaka saw people looking to exploit ranged attacks from a mile away and had goats spit on them as a response.

I'd take the hint.

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I'm pretty sure you just implied that enfeebling the target is cheating. I'm not sure what you think you're proving with your internet bravado, this whole "everyone should stand there and take damage like a man so I can feel like I have some self-worth as a healer/enhancer" whiny garbage is pathetic.

Next you should start a thread demanding all enfeebling skills and spells should be removed because they're "just easy ways out of fighting something." You should demand they delete all thaumaturges as well. And while they're at it, get rid of lancers. They're stepping on your toes a bit too by making fights too easy. This game should only be Gladiators, Marauders, and Conjurers, everyone else is cheating.

EVERY DoW HAS A RANGED ATTACK!!!!!!!!!

well.. I just bought a stack of Silver Javalins.. and they are a potent attack ;p

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Originally Posted by PikachuLink

And this new issue is?

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I dunno, but it probably has something to do with enemy AI in relation to ranged attack behavior.

I understand its an anti exploiting mechanism but

A) why bother with snares/roots
B)it looks really silly when everything in the world has some sort of ranged attack (this drives me crazy in CO too)

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Originally Posted by Nephera

I understand its an anti exploiting mechanism but

A) why bother with snares/roots
B)it looks really silly when everything in the world has some sort of ranged attack (this drives me crazy in CO too)

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"I know its an anti exploiting mechanism, but I want to exploit things! I'll be good, honest! Don't sneeze me again!"

People want the game harder not easier,and difficulty comes in many ways.

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Originally Posted by Ayerc

While I appreciate the response, that was about as vague as a politician trying to explain policy. So the issue lead to another issue that needs to be addressed before the first issue can be resolved. Got it.

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Kiting, most likely.

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Originally Posted by Mack

What new issue could have possibly arised from this?

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I think the issue is: mobs and players can't attack while running right now, would be just too easy to kite a mob if they stop ranged attacks.
I think they need to add some sort of attack while running, then they can start remove ranged attcks.

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Originally Posted by Aion

peregrine have some bitterness for Archer....lol

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Peregrine is pretty bitter about a lot of stuff till SE themselves say something even if others say the exact same thing, like the whole "event taking developers time from important matters" he was adamant that it was and would attack anyone who says otherwise then SE says the exact same thing that quite a few people said (that it doesn't) and his personality takes a complete 180.

So there's nothing wrong with fighting enemies at a range, but peregrine is one of those "hardcore" players and will see anything as trying to take the easy way out.

Peregrine evidently never got invited to the party in 11.
Maybe that was less about having the wrong job, and more about telling people ad infinitum how the game has to be and how the rules have to be when most of them have another opinion.
Just a guess.

If she's fine with goats snorting you to Valhalla and pugs sneezing you to death - well, to each one his own fantasy world. I prefer dragons that bite to those that cough me to the afterlife.

And for the record: I was a monk. And in Balista, I was shot to pieces from afar more than once. But If I got hold of any of 'them archers, they were dead within 3 seconds.

(...)

Go and try to tank a charging Elephant head-on. Your funeral.

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People want the game harder not easier,and difficulty comes in many ways.

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Yes.
And I prefer ways that are not artifical, contrived and ridiculous. Like tiny squirrels that are magically able to penetrate my 2-inch steel breastplate with an acorn thrown from a 50 yard distance.

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Originally Posted by Rinsui

Yes.
And I prefer ways that are not artifical, contrived and ridiculous. Like tiny squirrels that are magically able to penetrate my 2-inch steel breastplate with an acorn thrown from a 50 yard distance.

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You are playing a game where knights fight on ostriches, toads are the size of kiosks, and walking plants that have more teeth than sharks! Those squirrels need SOME way to kill you!

That's no contradiction. You actually *can* ride on an ostrich, giant toads are an *imaginable* thing nature could (and has, in the past) come up with, and whether Morbols are plants is... well... a good question. In my book, those squirrels and ladybugs are o.k. as LV 1 enemies, but once I use more than a loincloth to cover my body, I have a hard time trying to imagine *how on earth* they manage do chip away at my HP.

Fireballs: o.k.
Magic Samurai Dwarfs: o.k.
Pink Elephants floating in the sky: borderline
Goats killing a Paladin with... snot: no-no.

i also really hope that the mobs left useing ranged attack get a proper animation for it. not just have a 0,1 sec animation (or no animation) and see a "hit" on one of the party members as a result, thats lame.

nerving the range attack also doesnt mean that the game gets easier or spells like bind acutally get some use if they start to make the world/mobs more challenging. But not by adding range to all mobs, more like adding harder dots that need to be treated by a mage etc. more evil moves. Higher cooldown on cures. less spamming-playstyle please!!!! Ofc this needs a lot of work and a complete redesign of hate-patterns, mob behaviour etc. but atm this game is easier then any mmo or single player rpg i ever played. The only thing that can actually kill you is a mob that can one shot you, everything else can be done with cure spam...

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Originally Posted by Rinsui

That's no contradiction. You actually *can* ride on an ostrich, giant toads are an *imaginable* thing nature could (and has, in the past) come up with, and whether Morbols are plants is... well... a good question. In my book, those squirrels and ladybugs are o.k. as LV 1 enemies, but once I use more than a loincloth to cover my body, I have a hard time trying to imagine *how on earth* they manage do chip away at my HP.

Fireballs: o.k.
Magic Samurai Dwarfs: o.k.
Pink Elephants floating in the sky: borderline
Goats killing a Paladin with... snot: no-no.

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Ants have been known to kill people.
The saliva of komodo dragons are a walking culturefest bacteria, making normally survivable bites deadly.
Impact screams have been used in games before.
Squirrel enemies used all sorts of attacks, including volcanic eruptions, and"L4 suicide" in FF7.
This is not the first, nor last "cute" enemy Square came up with.

They all can't be earth rending cinamatronic skylasers.

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Originally Posted by Rinsui

Yes.
And I prefer ways that are not artifical, contrived and ridiculous. Like tiny squirrels that are magically able to penetrate my 2-inch steel breastplate with an acorn thrown from a 50 yard distance.

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The squirrels aren't tiny anymore...

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Originally Posted by Anty

i also really hope that the mobs left useing ranged attack get a proper animation for it. not just have a 0,1 sec animation (or no animation) and see a "hit" on one of the party members as a result, thats lame.

nerving the range attack also doesnt mean that the game gets easier or spells like bind acutally get some use if they start to make the world/mobs more challenging. But not by adding range to all mobs, more like adding harder dots that need to be treated by a mage etc. more evil moves. Higher cooldown on cures. less spamming-playstyle please!!!! Ofc this needs a lot of work and a complete redesign of hate-patterns, mob behaviour etc. but atm this game is easier then any mmo or single player rpg i ever played. The only thing that can actually kill you is a mob that can one shot you, everything else can be done with cure spam...

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Exactly my thought... heck even goblins pick a stone out their *** and throw it xD Hehe... would love to get the crossbows back rather then a lame stone throw. Alot of mobs need their own ranged attack animation! Extremely bland and boring atm

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Originally Posted by Jericho

The squirrels aren't tiny anymore...

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Yep... They stand waist high... and they are called Nutbiter for a reason :D

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

What is stupid is hell is binding birds so they don't attack, silencing worms so they don't attack, kiting kirin so it doesn't attack, and basically all the stupid tactics that you clearly want that clearly are just easy ways out of fighting something.

Your motives are perfectly obvious. You don't want the ranged attacks there, so you can figure out a way to kill something that can't hit you back.

That is, the sneezes are working exactly. As. Intended. Again, Tanaka saw people looking to exploit ranged attacks from a mile away and had goats spit on them as a response.

I'd take the hint.

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LMFAO! i dont really need to reply just read the post after your reply to mine and you kinda get the point

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

We checked on this issue with the dev. team and have some details to report about the whole "every enemy having range attack" issue. While it's not a bug, it is something that the dev. team feels isn't very fitting with the rest of Eorzea. When they looked into remedying the situation, they discovered a new issue that needed to be addressed. So the plan now is to address the new issue first so that they're able to make adjustments to the ranged attack issue.

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If I had to guess, to me it seems that most monsters would become very simple to kill without ranged attacks.

I can imagine running around with my archer and close shot and some monsters not being able to touch me at all during fights, I mean, that's got alright distance.

Plus gravity, you could just plant that and a monster would become totally useless.



You can get rid of some of the ranged though and still add some strategy.

Mobs that don't have ranged attack should all be significantly more resistant to gravity then the rest.

Also, it would help to increase the ground speed of monsters that did not have ranged attacks, that way if someone was going to bind mobs, they would find it hard if bind did not stick when they expected it too.

Depending on how the close shot strategy worked, you could also lower it's accuracy or effectiveness on these monsters. (I wouldn't nessasrily recommend this, that could add some excitement and strategy on it's own, increase of speed could make this intresting).

I think if you are going to take out ranged attacks, you need to allow monsters to physically attack while moving. (If they can't as it is)

Another major problem I could see with taking away ranged attack is that because ranges are so much larger that melee fighters might spend more time chasing around mobs then actually fighting them, especially if there's an archer in the group.

Archers have quite some distance, and at least now, enemies stand still and throw stones when they attack archers. It's gonna be a different story once those ranged attacks are gone.
Probably going to just be a major fight between archer and tanks, with melee fighters trailing the mobs, hoping to hit.
Anyway I can see some real problems arising from that.



Could keep ranged attacks and lower accuracy at greater then 20'
Or lower ranged attack to less then 20'. Something along those lines.

If it's the actual seeing monsters ranged attack that's the issue, then you need other solutions for that. To create a multi-strategic enemy system, you could use a variety of these.
Brainstorming, it's all a cloud of ideas, sorry, weed through it.



This is a real big problem that seems to be looked over...

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Originally Posted by Anty

The only thing that can actually kill you is a mob that can one shot you, everything else can be done with cure spam...

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I think this has to do with the giant pool of MP. As a melee solo fights are no fun.

Something you could do is add a greater stamina costs to MP as a melee or non-DoM,

At the same time I think it would be a much smarter idea to have this game focus on an MP-regeneration system, where MP just constantly refilled as time went on and that the main focus of jobs was maintaining adequate MP rather then what it is now with the huge MP pool and the spell spam.

An idea for that could be that MP regenerated constantly at some rate (even when casting), though when your not casting spells (so just waiting) MP would refill faster.
Later rather then jobs being focused on the maintence of MP, they could be focused on the regen rates.

Some thoughts, related and unrelated.

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Originally Posted by Akumu

I completely agree on your stand as I also feel the same way. I'm hoping Yoshi-P is aware enough to keep chances for cheap tactics cut to the barest minimum. People talked about how much of a "challenge" XI had and most others met that challenge the easiest way as possible. Why use melee DD when you could have a rdm(or bst) kite and black mages nuke it without stress of taking a hit(example). This is something that was obviously seen by Tanaka during his reign with intent to abolish the chances for such tactics.

If Yoshi-P removes these range attacks from standard mobs I will have no objection. However, he should not take it away from NMs, Dungeon Bosses, or just the main content in general. Kiting is one lowball tactic and would love if it would not be allowed again on content that matters. If someone wants to kite a standard dodo then by all means go ahead and have fun. However, If i'm facing some NM or "boss" that proved his worth NOBODY should have it running around in a circle like an idiot while being shot with magic and arrows in the back.

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Nice post. I wondered once why every monster seemed to have a ranged attack but decided it was probably to prevent kiting things around rocks and such to kill without getting hit. While it makes you feel smart perhaps and it is kinda fun, it's still a little cheap. I do think that it's a bit awkward with all monsters having ranged attacks though. I would like to see them at least keep ranged attacks on NMs and bosses as you said.. that's a great idea.
While kiting can be fun for those doing it, I don't like that it takes away from party play in a way. Suddenly parties/LS' only want ranged/magic classes and no others. And I don't really like seeing one person solo something they shouldn't be able to by tricking it into running back and forth. >.>
I would much prefer to see a full party accomplish beating a tough boss/NM fighting it head on and putting a wider range of classes' skills to use.

What was SE's reasoning in removing ranged attack from mobs? Game is easy enough as it is, are they trying to make this game retard-proof?