Dodore over nerfed(and other nms too)

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Originally Posted by Zalasta

What they need to do is change some things up. Too much tank and spank.
I'm by no means hardcore, but I do like a challenge when I play. Everything is the same, leves, mobs, NM's. You do the same thing for everything, tank and spank, and it's too monotonous.

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Thats why I'm sayin. Level 2 death will make Dodore so much more challanging. What happens when your THM tank suddenly falls over dead? FUN!

Unless you had a R49 Thaum... HO HO!

Haha, yeah. I did him for the first time last night.
I got bored with just standing there casting... and I was DPS =\

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Originally Posted by Zalasta

What they need to do is change some things up. Too much tank and spank.
I'm by no means hardcore, but I do like a challenge when I play. Everything is the same, leves, mobs, NM's. You do the same thing for everything, tank and spank, and it's too monotonous.

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You need to have the appropriate environment to create encounter mechanics more complicated than tank-and-spank. Character movement also has to be adjusted and made smoother to work with the new encounters (which by extension means that controls need to be worked on). Open world has never been a good place for things like that, sadly. Hence why most interesting encounters are in instances.

Maybe if they made GB able to summon Metor. Wouldn't that be pretty interesting?

Oh, And dodore can summon an extra minion every minute! (Excitement!)

Until a game Implements a monster that you can only defeat by having a epic fiddle battle with or defeating it in a lively debate. Your still going to be hitting things until they fall over. I am hard pressed to be able to come up with any thing in a mmo that does not Revolve around "Tank and spank".

At 50%, Dodore can fly up into the air totally out of reach of players, and bombard the area around it with exploding balls of darkness!

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Originally Posted by Reika

At 50%, Dodore can fly up into the air totally out of reach of players, and bombard the area around it with exploding balls of darkness!

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would be interesting, although that basically happens when you get 3 or 4 shadowsears on you at once.


Although that can't happen anymore :(

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Originally Posted by Griss

Until a game Implements a monster that you can only defeat by having a epic fiddle battle with or defeating it in a lively debate. Your still going to be hitting things until they fall over. I am hard pressed to be able to come up with any thing in a mmo that does not Revolve around "Tank and spank".

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I'm only mentioning WoW right now because that's what I played previously, but a lot of the bosses there had "phases" where they would do something different. I've seen it in other games as well, the boss would do something different when it hit a certain time or a certain HP level. It just adds something different to the mix.

Don't worry, I left WoW because it got boring. I've loved the FF series and never got to play 11, but heard good reviews of that game. I am expecting the same things for 14. I'm sure they'll come soon. Hopefully suggestions like mine give them ideas that they can do once they have the new battle system sorted out.

I'm just saying that it's dull and lifeless because you're doing the same thing with anything you do battle wise.

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Originally Posted by Zalasta

I'm only mentioning WoW right now because that's what I played previously, but a lot of the bosses there had "phases" where they would do something different. I've seen it in other games as well, the boss would do something different when it hit a certain time or a certain HP level. It just adds something different to the mix.

Don't worry, I left WoW because it got boring. I've loved the FF series and never got to play 11, but heard good reviews of that game. I am expecting the same things for 14. I'm sure they'll come soon. Hopefully suggestions like mine give them ideas that they can do once they have the new battle system sorted out.

I'm just saying that it's dull and lifeless because you're doing the same thing with anything you do battle wise.

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Dude... The combat system is hard enough for people. If they did NM's like WoW bosses, only a small handful of people would be anywhere near skilled enough to kill them. Plus theyd have to do something about all the 'not-being-able-to-move-while-performing-and-action' stuff first.

You know how many people just cant for the sake of all human kind NOT STAND IN FIRE?!

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Originally Posted by Reika

You know how many people just cant for the sake of all human kind NOT STAND IN FIRE?!

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I had to LoL @ this - Just brought back so many memories haha.

Yeah I get what you mean. I thought having some input was a good idea, oh well...

Interesting to see that the OP feels the need to open just another thread on exactly the same topic as others he (and others) already opened. I wonder if they have been proven wrong too much there, and feel the need of an artificial clean slate?

Also, quite funny to see that he obviously (and very conveniently) forgot to mention that not all the NMs have been nerfed, as the Great Buffalo has been made considerably more powerful, with the damage it deals sizably increased.

So no. The conspiracy theory doesn't hold water. Some content has been balanced down, some up,some has been left basically unchanged. That's all there's to it. Sorry to burst a bubble, but it's up to SE to identify the target of every piece of content. Demanding that everything should be balanced over your tastes is rather petty.

Buffalo is not any easier...not by a long shot. Uraeus was already easy. Mosshorn, Dodore and Goblin just had their lacky size decreased..

Wait, when did Dodore become an HNM?

lol...dodore.. HNM

Omg Shiyo... stfu, and give it some time. The dev's know exactly what they are doing. This game is far from finished, they have a whole new battle system coming up, new job type system, materia system, and yet you're complaining about one or two mobs being to easy... give it a damn break and let them roll out the systems they have planned, and then if it's not better you can start complaining.

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Originally Posted by Reika

Dude... The combat system is hard enough for people. If they did NM's like WoW bosses, only a small handful of people would be anywhere near skilled enough to kill them. Plus theyd have to do something about all the 'not-being-able-to-move-while-performing-and-action' stuff first.

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There's a reason I said that combat would need to be tweaked or changed. You can't have a boss like Heigan the Unclean or Nefarian or (heaven forbid) any of the bosses from Ulduar because the current character movement would make it very hard to move about as needed.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

There's a reason I said that combat would need to be tweaked or changed. You can't have a boss like Heigan the Unclean or Nefarian or (heaven forbid) any of the bosses from Ulduar because the current character movement would make it very hard to move about as needed.

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I play final fantasy XIV because it is not WoW, WoW is easy mode ZERG, and sit in city.

blah blah blah "you didn't raid if you think WoW is easy" and yes, yes i did back in vanilla WoW when the game was bearable and actually difficult.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Interesting to see that the OP feels the need to open just another thread on exactly the same topic as others he (and others) already opened. I wonder if they have been proven wrong too much there, and feel the need of an artificial clean slate?

Also, quite funny to see that he obviously (and very conveniently) forgot to mention that not all the NMs have been nerfed, as the Great Buffalo has been made considerably more powerful, with the damage it deals sizably increased.

So no. The conspiracy theory doesn't hold water. Some content has been balanced down, some up,some has been left basically unchanged. That's all there's to it. Sorry to burst a bubble, but it's up to SE to identify the target of every piece of content. Demanding that everything should be balanced over your tastes is rather petty.

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i guess the 5 person party with 1 mage that dropped the buffalo 3 times today were just that good. i can vouch for it because i was there. the buffalo is not harder by any stretch.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

I love you <3 I always agree with everything you say, every single word! ^-^

Yes, it makes me sad, I say that all the time about video games. It makes me so sad, I might have to quit video games ;_;

I DO NOT want to solo! Solo is boring! I hate soloing, I play MMOs for teamwork and partying and playing with other players, its STUPID that they want to encourage soloing! Sigh >_< I want challenging party based teamwork based gameplay.

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I think its more the Nostalgic Community that kills the Games.
There is no better Game than the One you loved before the new ones, its common.
Solo is pretty much for the Casuals and as long as they dont overdo it there is no problem with that but i agree, Solo is boring, leves are boring (well Solo though), so it fits and i think that is enough of Solo content.
Most Hardcore people seem to tend to mistake what Casuals want and what not.
Im neither Hardcore or Casual but a Game should be Challenging.

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I don't think they're ever going to add challenging hardcore content tbh.

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Omg, i hope they will add Challenge, i dont want a 3d Chat that eats my PC Hardware.

What one must consider is the difficulty of Dodore when you don't have a THM in the party. With the full number of minions with only 8 people in the party and no THM I believe it may take considerably longer to kill the NM. They can't balance content with the assumption that every party will have a THM as that's just not balanced.

To increase the difficulty of the Dodore battle they don't need to add more minions. They just need to improve the AI of the mobs so that they always move into closer range.

Dodore is a beast without a thaum. When a melee tries to tank it, it starts using its tail attacks. and it is harder to position all the minions so no one has to be in front of them.

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Originally Posted by Bled

I play final fantasy XIV because it is not WoW, WoW is easy mode ZERG, and sit in city.

blah blah blah "you didn't raid if you think WoW is easy" and yes, yes i did back in vanilla WoW when the game was bearable and actually difficult.

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Back in Vanilla WoW!!!, well then you have no idea what a hard mode raid dungeon is or how dynamic the fights are these days, so sit down and shut up, thats just as bad as Kilta not playing FF14 and having an opinion.

I know about 85% of this games players couldnt take on the lich king... Maybe more.

Does it matter? All this game teaches us to do is not pay attention and to spam 111111111231111111231111111123

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

Does it matter? All this game teaches us to do is not pay attention and to spam 111111111231111111231111111123

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People must love killing stuff with you if you don't pay attention and just spam 1 all the time. You are over exaggerating.

I think some are expecting too much from this game, given its development stage. If you're going to knock 'end game' before the new battle/armor system is defined, and well before the game even goes retail for the PS3, you're totally out of line. How about we just be patient and give the development team time to finalize this first. I really believe they'll eventually get it right.

Seriously, it used to kill be in ffxi some of the epen5 posts about solo'g this NM or that, or solo'g salvage, Bune, etc. I kept waiting for the 'I solo'd Byakko or Kirin' posts. If you need immediate self-gratification, as such, in this game today, you really need be looking for another game.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

Does it matter? All this game teaches us to do is not pay attention and to spam 111111111231111111231111111123

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Spamming like that and wasting stamina will leave you defenseless when your defensive buff(s) wear off.....
Smart people dont do that.

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Originally Posted by Reika

Dodore is a beast without a thaum. When a melee tries to tank it, it starts using its tail attacks. and it is harder to position all the minions so no one has to be in front of them.

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Stand at range like a Thaum does and you won't be hit by tail moves.
It's just as easy to beat Dodore with a melee that can soak damage as it is with a Thaum. The only difference is the amount of healing one needs over the other.

Youre gonna lose agression real fast if you arent attacking you know. How do you think thaum keeps agression, standing there at range doing nothing? Some other melee is going to take the agression, and in comes the tail whip. It is the thaums aoe debuffs/nuking combo that allows them to hold the hate. without that dodore minions are all over the place. Melee cant aoe debuff/spell nuke...

Try it sometime.

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Originally Posted by Reika

Youre gonna lose agression real fast if you arent attacking you know. How do you think thaum keeps agression, standing there at range doing nothing? Some other melee is going to take the agression, and in comes the tail whip. It is the thaums aoe debuffs/nuking combo that allows them to hold the hate. without that dodore minions are all over the place. Melee cant aoe debuff/spell nuke...

Try it sometime.

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You won't if you know how to generate enmity.

We've done it countless, countless times, even with a main Thaum tank. Shits easy to hold doing nothing cept vokes and other enmity gaining actions.

NMs were never end-game.

Yoshida said dungeons and raid content are aimed at mid-high level players (note still not end-game.)

If they add dynamic NM fights like other MMOs people will complain when the cap raises that the boss gets easier.

Lower the party number didn't make NMs easier.

Humans love to find scapegoats so when something is changed, updated or removed people pay closer attention than they used to to find something wrong.

"Making a game easy" will attract everyone, why do you think Farmville and WoW were the most popular western online games? Long gone are the days where people actually like and want challenge in their video games.

If they add a boss rush NM like Pandemonium Ward in XI, people will be retarded and fight it for 18 hours then blame SE, this is partially why they've moved to the "light side" of things, because you throw a challenge, people don't know when to give up; Example, in PW, they put a 2-3 hour cap on the fight and it will despawn, yet the only other adjustment they did, was removed some of it's forms but didn't adjust its power nor lamp spawns which proves the group of players who fought till they got sick were just being stupid about fighting that long because people are killing it just fine with its 3 hour time limit.

They want to prevent situations like that from happening again.

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Originally Posted by Keftenk

You won't if you know how to generate enmity.

We've done it countless, countless times, even with a main Thaum tank. Shits easy to hold doing nothing cept vokes and other enmity gaining actions.

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I suppose you did it when he had 8 minions too... and without emulate?

Godlike

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Originally Posted by Reika

I suppose you did it when he had 8 minions too... and without emulate?

Godlike

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We did yes.
I mean, you're right to some extent, of course we always had that one dps that would pull a minion off at some point of the fight. However, we never had anything rampant where they were all on different targets, running around like we had our heads chopped off.

Depending on your job, there are countless ways of generating a lot of enmity and generating it fast. Of course though, having Intimidation on your bar while everyone else has Out of Sight just makes it that much easier.

"Xatsh... so the chances of the genre having any bit of challenge or in-dept gameplay is pretty much out the window.

The MMO era is over. You have the online rpg era and the MSO(massive soloplayer online game) now. "

100% wrong. Depends on what you call a challenge, most things on FFXI took hours to complete but were just as easy as a lot of the stuff in FFXIV. Only thing that made it seem like a challenge was the fact it took so much time to do. (Time Sink) I understand that you are targeting the genre in general and not just FFXIV but I think the reason they made the NMs easier on FFXIV is because soon they will be adding challenging end game content. Also I think they just made them easier so everyone could have a shot at them before they become obsolete, sure some of the gear will still be good but new stuff will be coming out within a month or two.

So by doing this they let the LS's who aren't as well established be able to take the NMs down and get this gear and also now all the NMs can be taken down by perhaps lower level groups. (Groups from 40-50 range effectively, even though people was doing it prior majority of the time you had majority of 50s or upper 40s) and this gives the lower 40s to 50s content other than that crappy sp grind full time to 50 before you are really effective against NMs. I understand that takes away from us/the current end game LS's but it was necessary. They said from the beginning that the game would have content for both casual and hardcore players but it would not all come instantly. Hardcore content is on the way just stick with the game and keep faith or quit and maybe come back and play in a couple months if at all.

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Originally Posted by Reika

I suppose you did it when he had 8 minions too... and without emulate?

Godlike

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there are plenty of people that did Dodore before they found out how broken emulate is

Well just so everyone knows, Dodore is not the 'Final Boss'. Neither are any of the other NM's. They aren't meant to be near-impossible. And besides. Dodore Doublets are only super spectacular because the old dev team (and the new so far) forgot to add Velveteen and Linen Doublets, making it the only good thing past the r26 doublet for BSM/ARM. Wait til those come into play, Dodore would be just something to go kill if you're bored. All those things i suggested they could add to dodore were jokes. It dont need to be insanely hard.

Notorious Monster are just extra strong monsters.

I could of sworn I made a post regarding this and got flamed. Just saying.

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Originally Posted by Reika

Notorious Monster are just extra monsters.

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This sounds a lot better.

I am actually suprised they didnt just remove the minions from Dodore, Goblin, and Mosshorn... None of the new NM's have minions.

Ya but they are for mid leveled groups to kill. Like 25-40 . but 50s want the rare/ex gear for other classes

Wow... i had some good laughs in this Thread. You all are coming from WoW or something?

ALL NM's are a Joke Now. Esp. by cutting down the Adds, which i dont understand really. People saying they are harder now? People saying they didnt change? People saying Dodore is a Beast without a THM?

Um... listen.. i dont know if its the Fact that our LS killed them uncountable Times, or the Fact that we all are Former FFXI-Gamers, but we 6-8 Man's the NM's allready BEFORE the Patch and saying that they are harder now or are not easier now, or that you cant do em without a THM is nothing but a big piece of Bullshit.

Cutting Down the Adds, from Dodore and the Goblin was by far the most worse thing to do. They were doable before the Patch with 8 People so why cut them down and make them even easier? The Partysize is now 8, but it doesnt really effect any of the Fight.. Its way easier and FASTER now since you dont have kill ALL the Adds, even Buffalo is way faster now, which i find weird. To much of Cutting the NM's there.

And they are NOT HNM's.. they are just NM's.. Do you People forget that we are sitting at a Rank50 Cap? Do you guys believe that this cap will be there for the next 20 Years? You could maybe say that those NM's are similiar to what KA, Sim etc in FFXI were. But thats about it.