MMO Launches

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Originally Posted by ChinoMoreno

Rocky launches aside, this could have been alleviated a bit had phase 4 not been for 3 days. Hardly a test.

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I can agree with that.

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Originally Posted by ChinoMoreno

Rocky launches aside, this could have been alleviated a bit had phase 4 not been for 3 days. Hardly a test.

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Making phase 4 longer wouldn't have alliviated anything. These problems are occuring because the load on the servers was much greater than in the beta (from all the people who bought the game who didn't play during the beta. Many of the random people preordering from gamestop or other places may not have even known about it)

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Originally Posted by Aviva

As much as you all want to complain he is a little right heres one example after just a short amount of searching.
http://forums.riftgame.com/general-d...index2253.html

i think you all will see a commonality.

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I played rift for quite some time from Beta well through release and it was nowhere near as bad as this. It was worst for the EU customers just because trion had shitty EU support but it was still a lot smoother than this. I consider rift to be one of the best launches of an MMO ever and many agree. Ill also just ignore the fact that Rift was released 3 years ago....

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

An expansion to an already existing game with a plateau'd population doesn't count as an "MMO launch." WoW's launch was very rough with long login queues and other issues when it started. Counting one of WoW's expansions among MMO launchis is just ludicrous.

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not really true considering the amount of people who would come back for WoW expansion launches often outnumbered those who would show up on launch days of new MMOs. WoW expansions could see the population swing up by as much as a couple hundred thousand players...

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Originally Posted by ChinoMoreno

Rocky launches aside, this could have been alleviated a bit had phase 4 not been for 3 days. Hardly a test.

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Not likely. It's much more difficult to get this many people to try logging on at once during a beta, even an open one. There are far more people trying to play now than there were in phase 4.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Making phase 4 longer wouldn't have alliviated anything. These problems are occuring because the load on the servers was much greater than in the beta (from all the people who bought the game who didn't play during the beta. Many of the random people preordering from gamestop or other places may not have even known about it)

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And as we know, there were no congestion related bugs in beta 4 preventing logins

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Originally Posted by redisdrunk

This isn't World of Warcraft.
It's not 2004.
This isn't Squares first MMO.
This isn't Square's first time running this MMO.

Proclaiming you were there when <GameName> launched with bugs in no way excuses the consistent, dramatic issues occurring with the game people are actually trying to play right now.

You're doing yourself, and the game, a disservice by vehemently excusing and apologizing for a company that is letting it's customers swing in the wind without clear feedback or a coherent line of communication to the.

FFXIV re-launched, in part, because of the abysmal impression it's initial launch left with the gaming press, and gamers in general. It was a second chance at a first impression. Even if you can personally tolerate the issues, it's still incredibly problematic that this is going to be the first experience with XIV for many, or for console gamers, an MMO in general.

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This, this, and this. ^

I am going to re-post what I threw up in another thread:
Yes, yes.. most big name MMO's have had plenty of launch issues. Us MMO-folk all know that by now.

There's one thing that bothers me though guys: SE has had MULTIPLE MMO launches before. FFXI, FFXIV 1.0, and now FFXIV ARR. Am I missing some? Dunno, but they should of known from past experiences how this was going to turn out. They HAVE the experience. They should of been a little more prepared, yeah? Makes sense. At least to me.

Maybe I am wrong here... Hmm.

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Originally Posted by Azurus

I consider rift to be one of the best launches of an MMO ever and many agree. Ill also just ignore the fact that Rift was released 3 years ago....

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Ok, so because it was smooth for you and because you didnt experience the Problems Rift had, those Problems did not exist and made it the "best" launch?.. Ok, here we go... I did experience 1 Login Problem today and 1 yesterday between 2 Maintances, did not get kicked once and doing quests, instances etc etc without a problem. So according to your logic; this must be the best launch of a MMO then?

fair enough. :)

Can't wait for Siege of Orgrimmar!

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Originally Posted by Azurus

I played rift for quite some time from Beta well through release and it was nowhere near as bad as this. It was worst for the EU customers just because trion had shitty EU support but it was still a lot smoother than this. I consider rift to be one of the best launches of an MMO ever and many agree. Ill also just ignore the fact that Rift was released 3 years ago.....

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Right so it was good because only the EU had problems.
So, in a few years when the JPs say the same thing about this launch it'l be the best launch ever.

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Originally Posted by M4Fade

This, this, and this. ^

I am going to re-post what I threw up in another thread:
Yes, yes.. most big name MMO's have had plenty of launch issues. Us MMO-folk all know that by now.

There's one thing that bothers me though guys: SE has had MULTIPLE MMO launches before. FFXI, FFXIV 1.0, and now FFXIV ARR. Am I missing some? Dunno, but they should of known from past experiences how this was going to turn out. They HAVE the experience. They should of been a little more prepared, yeah? Makes sense. At least to me.

Maybe I am wrong here... Hmm.

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No, you're absolutely correct. SE is just incompetent.

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Originally Posted by Nero

?

fair enough. :)

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lol failwhiteknight but ill bite. The difference here is that rifts problems effected far less people than FFXIV's currently are and for a far less time period. Seriously man how long did you play rift for anyway? The first day was the only bad one and throughout that whole time the devs were in open discussion through the forums tot he playerbase the entire time. None of that has happened here. This is far worse than rifts launch and its right up their with WoWs as far im concerned taking in to account SE had 10+ years of history and an already released MMO to learn from. Keep blindly defending though and youll get your dream of FFXIV 1.0 II.

fair enough? :)

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Originally Posted by Azurus

lol failwhiteknight but ill bite. The difference here is that rifts problems effected far less people than FFXIV's currently are and for a far less time period. Seriously man how long did you play rift for anyway? The first day was the only bad one and throughout that whole time the devs were in open discussion through the forums tot he playerbase the entire time. None of that has happened here. This is far worse than rifts launch and its right up their with WoWs as far im concerned taking in to account SE had 10+ years of history and an already released MMO to learn from. Keep blindly defending though and youll get your dream of FFXIV 1.0 II.

fair enough? :)

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You may wish to use the proper term, White Knight isn't the one. You also may wish to truly understand the term you should be using, because you don't seem to understand that either. I'll be one of the first to point out SE's flaws, or any other company for that matter. This is barely the second day, and I can already see the issues getting better. I won't repeat my last post, you can go read it yourself, but knowing the type you are, you will just try to label me and ignore it.

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Originally Posted by Aviva

Right so it was good because only the EU had problems.
So, in a few years when the JPs say the same thing about this launch it'l be the best launch ever.

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lol keep bending my point to serve your failed logic idc. fact is the problems of this launch have effected literally everybody playing to various degrees. And the game breaking bugs have effected far more people then Rifts ever did. So go on keep defending a 3 day fail obt and a severe inbalance in server distribution. the fact remains that launches have been done much better and just because some are also bad does not mean its ok to repeat past mistakes.

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Originally Posted by ispano

You may wish to use the proper term, White Knight isn't the one. You also may wish to truly understand the term you should be using, because you don't seem to understand that either. I'll be one of the first to point out SE's flaws, or any other company for that matter. This is barely the second day, and I can already see the issues getting better. I won't repeat my last post, you can go read it yourself, but knowing the type you are, you will just try to label me and ignore it.

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did I quote you? I dont even remember mentioning you? care to elaborate on when I labeled you?

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Originally Posted by Azurus

lol failwhiteknight but ill bite.

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No Idea what exactly i "white knighted", but yea lets "troll" a little.

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Originally Posted by Azurus

The difference here is that rifts problems effected far less people than FFXIV's currently are and for a far less time period.

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During early Access it did affect everyone not "far less" people. You are obviously talking about Rifts actual Launch and not the Early Access. 1. ARR did not launch yet and 2. during 6 days of EA in Rift i was only able to play 12 hours tops, due 5-6 hours queue times.

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Originally Posted by Azurus

Seriously man how long did you play rift for anyway? The first day was the only bad one and throughout that whole time the devs were in open discussion through the forums tot he playerbase the entire time.

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Thought so.. you do not talk about Early Access from Rift, just Launch.

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Originally Posted by Azurus

This is far worse than rifts launch and its right up their with WoWs as far im concerned taking in to account SE had 10+ years of history and an already released MMO to learn from.

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WoW was bugged and unstable for ~10 Month and apparently i was not aware that ARR is running allready that long...

did i do it right? enough with the trolling and actually i did not defend the problems of ARR's early access. But yeah.. see what you want to see. :)

SWTOR, Rift and Age of Conan. Out of those AoC was the worst for me as I believe out of the 36hr head start we were supposed to get the first 18-24 it wasn't playable, but after that it seemed fine. With Rift and swtor the worst part for me were the wait times but at least the queue system worked in those games so you had a rough idea of when you would on.

It's sad too because after the debacle that was FF14 1.0 you would think at this point they would be desperate to make sure things went as smoothly as possible, especially when the early access folks are probably the ones most likely to stick around and play the game.

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Originally Posted by ispano

Not likely. It's much more difficult to get this many people to try logging on at once during a beta, even an open one. There are far more people trying to play now than there were in phase 4.

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Well I can't argue with reason, but I feel a three day test a week before early access just isn't enough to justify anything. You'd think they'd want to check some stress. 1.0 open beta lasted longer as did the EA. I would have thought they'd go above and beyond given 1.0's history.

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Originally Posted by Azurus

did I quote you? I dont even remember mentioning you? care to elaborate on when I labeled you?

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May wish to re-read my post. I said "you will" not that you had. However, you have already done it to others, so I knew you would try to pull it on anyone who has knowledge of how these things work. You'll just say they blindly defend without being rational or logical.

Like Ive said before, EA is a bonus. Im definitely disappointed I couldnt spend the weekend playing but oh well... they have until launch (which seems to be the 29th now).

That said, theyre really screwing it up. Honestly ive heard launch horror stories before but Ive personally never experience something as bad. Maybe ive just been lucky but I havent had a horrible launch since LotRO. Sure ... ive had horrible lag, some crashes, insanely large queues, maybe even some quick maintenance here and there ... but the game being downright unplayable at all for this long? Not since LotRO and even then it wasnt as bad. LotRO had major rubberbanding issues happening within 10 minutes but at least it wasnt everyone.

AoC
Aion - worse were the incredibly long queues from the "AFK personal shop" cheat.
WAR
Champions Online
SWTOR
Guild Wars 2

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not really true considering the amount of people who would come back for WoW expansion launches often outnumbered those who would show up on launch days of new MMOs.

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Uncomparable. WoW already had plenty of capacity at the time because they knew how many players they had and how many players could possibly be attracted back with an expansion. In other words, they both already had the infrastructure and already knew how much they needed, because the game was ALREADY RUNNING and they had YEARS OF DATA DIRECTLY FROM THEIR GAME to go on.

|An new expansion != an MMO launch. If you want to bring up WoW, it has to be WoW's original launch, not an expansion.

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And as we know, there were no congestion related bugs in beta 4 preventing logins

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Where Y is a much greater number than X:

It doesn't matter how long phase 4 is. Having X people on your servers during phase 4 does not help you alliviate problems that occur when Y people are on the servers afterward.

Its like if you build a stadium that's just big enough for a brand new (american) football team before it's proven itself, and then you don't have eneough seats for everyone when their popularity explodes after winning their first few games. Now you have to make the stadium (server) bigger to accommodate the larger number of fans (logins). But you couldn't have known until after it happened that you would need that many. Yes, you can use region population data to make an educated guess, but that's just it- a guess.

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Originally Posted by ispano

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ohhhh nonono i dont see much wrong with the points you raise, so dont assume, you know what they say about assuming. I throw the label around for people who think it is ok to have an EA like this "because wow was bad" or some other mmo was bad. I waited for this game to come around for 3 years so im plenty invested and to watch SE piss away their rare chance at a second impression is quite disappointing.

And it is even more disappointing to see people patting them on the back like there isnt so much in this industry to learn from. fact remains that far more people are pissed than pleased this EA and that does not bode well for this game as history has shown so many times. This is why I find it infuriating when people use the same tired excuses, cause honestly there has not been a truely "successful" MMO, to use that term loosely since WoW.

Every MMO after has had varying degrees of "success" but there are far more failures and the ones that enjoyed some "success", ended up going f2p in 6 months and found that their success was fleeting at best. Maybe I am being a tad irrational but you know what? watching the same dismal scene of a potentially great game commit suicide is getting really old after 10 years. So I am sorry If i hurt your or anyone else's feelings but this industry has a way of bringing out the worst in people...

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Originally Posted by Azurus

ohhhh nonono i dont see much wrong with the points you raise, so dont assume, you know what they say about assuming. I throw the label around for people who think it is ok to have an EA like this "because wow was bad" or some other mmo was bad. I waited for this game to come around for 3 years so im plenty invested and to watch SE piss away their rare chance at a second impression is quite disappointing.

And it is even more disappointing to see people patting them on the back like there isnt so much in this industry to learn from. fact remains that far more people are pissed than pleased this EA and that does not bode well for this game as history has shown so many times. This is why I find it infuriating when people use the same tired excuses, cause honestly there has not been a truely "successful" MMO, to use that term loosely since WoW.

Every MMO after has had varying degrees of "success" but there are far more failures and the ones that enjoyed some "success", ended up going f2p in 6 months and found that their success was fleeting at best. Maybe I am being a tad irrational but you know what? watching the same dismal scene of a potentially great game commit suicide is getting really old after 10 years. So I am sorry If i hurt your or anyone else's feelings but this industry has a way of bringing out the worst in people...

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Most? You might want to get numbers to back that up. Sure there are plenty that are upset, but doing a quick look through the forums and other places, it's not that many, even compared to the typical fraction that actually use the forums.

No matter what has happened in the past, things to learn from, what have you, this is something that you can't properly prepare for. It just doesn't happen.

You either don't have enough capacity for everyone on AT THE SAME TIME(Which is what's happening), but it's plenty of capacity when people play normally. This is what cause the issue we have now.

OR you grossly overestimate, and everything is fairly snug on release, but then it all dies down, people go back to playing normal hours for the most part.... And you get empty servers at varying times of the day, you end up having to merge servers and waste the money you spent for the extra capacity.

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Originally Posted by ispano

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eh its not even worth arguing about for me at this point. I want the game to succeed, thats all there is to it. whether it does or not is to be seen. I dont like what I am seeing because it reminds me of so many games before it but who knows, I guess we will see and you know what else? I would be absolutely ecstatic if I was wrong. Enjoy the rest of your evening.