dev1037 New Battle Effects

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Originally Posted by BelgianRofl

The spell-casting animations, as well as the spell animations themselves are just weak in FFXIV. It seems all they did here was adjust one variable - the size.

April 19th, ppl....

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What makes you think the patch will hit April 19th and not sooner?

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Originally Posted by Benji

What makes you think the patch will hit April 19th and not sooner?

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nah, he's somehow arguing the remote possibility of people quitting FFXIV in droves when Portal 2 is released. because you know, everyone would quite his MMORPG of choice for a (great, mind you) primarily single player game that offers 6 hours of gameplay in a generous estimate.

I'm sure FFXIV will be quite underpopulated on April 19th... for a whole six hours.

When it comes to AM magic.... if the nonexistent spell animation is doubled.....

0 x 2 = 0

I'm expecting no change....

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Originally Posted by Maverick_Hawkeye

When it comes to AM magic.... if the nonexistent spell animation is doubled.....

0 x 2 = 0

I'm expecting no change....

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LOL

That's pretty damn funny! Seriously though, animations have been a strong point in Final Fantasy games in recent years. It's one of the signature characteristics - like chocobos. I started leveling a few melee jobs only to notice identical weapon skill animations. We need to mix it up a little bit....

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Originally Posted by BelgianRofl

That's pretty damn funny! Seriously though, animations have been a strong point in Final Fantasy games in recent years. It's one of the signature characteristics - like chocobos. I started leveling a few melee jobs only to notice identical weapon skill animations. We need to mix it up a little bit....

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And again, you seem to be missing the glaringly obvious fact that this change has absolutely nothing to do with animations.

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Originally Posted by Maverick_Hawkeye

0 x 2 = 0

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The size of the effects is factually not zero. And since we're talking about size, the above equation doesn't apply.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

And again, you seem to be missing the glaringly obvious fact that this change has absolutely nothing to do with animations.



The size of the effects is factually not zero. And since we're talking about size, the above equation doesn't apply.

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Some people just have no humor whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

nah, he's somehow arguing the remote possibility of people quitting FFXIV in droves when Portal 2 is released. because you know, everyone would quite his MMORPG of choice for a (great, mind you) primarily single player game that offers 6 hours of gameplay in a generous estimate.

I'm sure FFXIV will be quite underpopulated on April 19th... for a whole six hours.

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It's extremely non-generous to assume portal 2 will only have "6 hours" of gameplay, between the SP, 2 player co-op campaign and the challenges. The SP is supposed to be much longer than the original.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

It's extremely non-generous to assume portal 2 will only have "6 hours" of gameplay, between the SP, 2 player co-op campaign and the challenges. The SP is supposed to be much longer than the original.

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Actually the "6 hours" estimate comes directly from valve. You can even add another 6 hours for co-op (that not everyone is going to do), and you get a completely negligible effect on the MMORPG market.

The only visible effect will be on sales, and FFXIV is free at the moment.

But actually, Portal 2 might have a very benficial effect on FFXIV, or at the very least on it's forums. We can only hope.

I personally like the change, and i like that they released at least something! Id still love to see some more stuff other then just larger graphical effects. Still looks nice tho, looks like the spell is more powerful ^_^. Visual appeal is just as important as game play to alot of people.

I think the 6 hours was generous, I would have said 3 for most games these days. Like Metal Gear Solid 4 or Star War Force Unleashed II or Prototype.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Actually the "6 hours" estimate comes directly from valve. You can even add another 6 hours for co-op (that not everyone is going to do), and you get a completely negligible effect on the MMORPG market.

The only visible effect will be on sales, and FFXIV is free at the moment.

But actually, Portal 2 might have a very benficial effect on FFXIV, or at the very least on it's forums. We can only hope.

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Let's just say 20 hours, that's how long most people will probably play it for. Some will play it for 100 hours to get every last thing and complete every challenge 20 times but that's not the average user.

Even at 20 hours or more your argument still holds that it has little to no impact on the MMO market. Hell I'm going to play Portal 2 as well, between FFXIV sessions.

Is this SE answer to everything. Make it BIGGER! Cmon sort it out. Ill be back on ps3 release i think, I cant be assed with this game any more. Updates are to slow, and there entire team effort should be foccussed on making content not crap like making things bigger. They havent got a clue imo.

Updates are too slow?! Do you know how insane the speed they're going at is? I've honestly never seen another game do a projected 2 updates a month to a game. Given the schedule was disrupted a little bit but with good reason.

Hell when I played Aion for 6+ months we only got a small handful of updates.

Give raise and resurrect an animation while you're at it.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Updates are too slow?! Do you know how insane the speed they're going at is? I've honestly never seen another game do a projected 2 updates a month to a game. Given the schedule was disrupted a little bit but with good reason.

Hell when I played Aion for 6+ months we only got a small handful of updates.

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This is due to the fact that the majority has no idea what it takes to develop. End of story. People like to act like they know, but it makes them look more ignorant than before.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Updates are too slow?! Do you know how insane the speed they're going at is? I've honestly never seen another game do a projected 2 updates a month to a game. Given the schedule was disrupted a little bit but with good reason..

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It is by no means "insane". They have been quite slow at updating the game. The reasons for it are obvious enough (or maybe not), but it has been way too slow for the time being. Whether it continues that way or not will be seen this and the next month.

If they'll keep this pace for the whole year, the game is as good as done. If the majority of fixes and content is scheduled around the same time period (April-May) then they still have a chance. But let's not fool ourselves. They haven't done enough.

But more importantly, they haven't yet shown us what they have done. Maybe it'll tip the pace in their favor, maybe it's not enough. But we have yet to see what "it" is in more than a producer's blueprint.

While making the current animations a bit bigger might help in a couple of cases, some animations will still be pretty bland. How ever once they start changing the partical effects this will definatly help the impact.

though some animations are pretty big right now, Simian thrash is already a giant ball of shiny. making that much bigger might be a bad thing lol.

IMO the size of the effects doesn't bother me too much, but making it bigger should give a dramatic effects. I may be wrong since I don't play DOM much but I don't remember having an effects on the caster, again I might be wrong but if I remember correctly FFXI not only the effects was on the MOB but there are some animation/effects on the caster as well... For example NIN had some cool scripture effects every time the caster makes a spell.

UPDATE: There are animations to casters in FFXIV, but they all look the same, probably why I didn't notice or care... /sigh.

I think if they can add more effects on the caster (streaks, glows, or something) that would make my day. And I totally agree on the Melee animations, they seem repetitive on all class. Some nice camera shakes for TP moves would be awesome and PROVOKE needs to be more visible and have AOE abilities... my 2¢.

Chanse

These "headline updates" on the lodestone are starting to depress even me. And Im a "fanboy". (ToT)

Please. SE. Just tell us the resize is a temporary measure while you make new spell animations.

Disclaimer;
I have no idea what development a game must be or how is it done, i am just a player. Nothing less, nothing more.


I fear for the game future if the update info they give us is this.I dont care if they are working on a complete overhaul.There is absolutely no reason to "update" us that they are gonna make the magic animation bigger.I only see two reasons.

1 - What you see is what you get.There is Nothing else ready for a long time.
2 - The Yoshida marketing scheme just went down the drain.If you dont got something good to say, then dont say anything at all.

Flame if you like but there is just so much people can take.

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Originally Posted by Lock_Hyur

These "headline updates" on the lodestone are starting to depress even me. And Im a "fanboy". (ToT)

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Quite the contrary. Every devXXXX post should (and probably will) go there. At the moment it's more or less always the same people discussing devXXXX topics on the forum. Fossilization in feedback is never a good thing, so it's a good idea to make new dev threads more visible (attracting more people to discuss) by putting them on the lodestone.
The purpose of the lodestone is exactly that, announcing things. There's no reason why it should be limited only to major updates.

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Originally Posted by Zkieve

1 - What you see is what you get.There is Nothing else ready for a long time.
2 - The Yoshida marketing scheme just went down the drain.If you dont got something good to say, then dont say anything at all.

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3 - (and most logical one) from now on all the devXXXX threads will be posted on the lodestone to attract more discussion and feedback on them from players that normally don't actively take part on the forums. Given that the post count of the one that opened this thread is 1, I would say it's working.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

3 - (and most logical one) from now on all the devXXXX threads will be posted on the lodestone to attract more discussion and feedback on them from players that normally don't actively take part on the forums. Given that the post count of the one that opened this thread is 1, I would say it's working.

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Discuss about magic effect being bigger or smaller ?.
yea definitely worth a thread.

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Originally Posted by Zkieve

Discuss about magic effect being bigger or smaller ?.
yea definitely worth a thread.

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Looks like quite a lot people are quite evidently considering it a worthy subject of discussion.

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1 - What you see is what you get.There is Nothing else ready for a long time.

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Hmm, I see 36 topics on the "In Development" forum as of right now, some of them containing larger, some smaller changes. If this is what we get for a month or two, sounds fine to me.

Although considering the most recent topic came out of nowhere and seems to be ready for the next patch, I am inclined to disagree. They will post more changes even outside the current 36 we can see.

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Discuss about magic effect being bigger or smaller ?.
yea definitely worth a thread.

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Discuss the "Enhancement of battle effects", as that is the name of the devtag. Maybe I simply have more imagination than you, but I can think of several things to say about the battle effects than just their size. This is what these discussion threads are for. This is why they posted the tag. To get feedback on the subject.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Looks like quite a lot people are quite evidently considering it a worthy subject of discussion.

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Yea , the sad part is the devs them selfs posted that, so it must be important to them.if you really dont see anything wrong with this, ill just ignore everything you say.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Hmm, I see 36 topics on the "In Development" forum as of right now, some of them containing larger, some smaller changes. If this is what we get for a month or two, sounds fine to me.

Although considering the most recent topic came out of nowhere and seems to be ready for the next patch, I am inclined to disagree. They will post more changes even outside the current 36 we can see.



Discuss the "Enhancement of battle effects", as that is the name of the devtag. Maybe I simply have more imagination than you, but I can think of several things to say about the battle effects than just their size. This is what these discussion threads are for. This is why they posted the tag. To get feedback on the subject.

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Wish i could be as naive . Honestly . I do wish so.if in 3 months this is what they can accomplish , i think we are waiting for a lot longer than i personally will wait on this game to recover.
Honestly wish im wrong from the bottom of a small fan heart.

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Originally Posted by Zkieve

Yea , the sad part is the devs them selfs posted that, so it must be important to them.if you really dont see anything wrong with this, ill just ignore everything you say.

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The dev forum is filled with a crapton of dev subjects, some important, some less. They had to start somewhere, and they put on the newest one. Since, you know, the front page is normally for news.

It wouldn't have made any sense making a news post saying "we posted this on the dev forum 3 weeks ago. Discuss".

Again, despite the fact that the usual suspects can't help to take advantage of this to gratuitously bash the game and the development team, the post generated quite a bit of interesting discussion, and attracted at least one new user to the forum, ergo it served it's purpose.

I really hope they do alter some of the lackluster spell effects other than simply a size increase...

If the game engine is designed properly, all a size increase of the effect would take is multiplying the scale variable by 1.5 or 2...

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Originally Posted by Aceroth

Hmmm. I dunno. we've tested a lot. And other than the obvious INT not scaling with DMG as well as STR does for Melee. The cost of time to cast, stamina, and MP ( which is not as big an issue with MP regen in game now) makes casting "nukes" not worth the 40dmg they do to NMs. You could in fact cast 2 spirit darts in its place that do same if not more dmg and have a much higher chance to hit. And I won't even go into the AM's in the game now. Totally not worth the mp/time and such. I dunno, don't care to debate. G'night

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That's a problem with NM magic resistance, not the spells themselves. They're well-balanced for normal monsters.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

The dev forum is filled with a crapton of dev subjects, some important, some less. They had to start somewhere, and they put on the newest one. Since, you know, the front page is normally for news.

It wouldn't have made any sense making a news post saying "we posted this on the dev forum 3 weeks ago. Discuss".

It's simple logic.

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Abriael ,do you really think this is the time to release such important information ?im not trolling you , im trying to reason with you.

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Originally Posted by Zkieve

Abriael ,do you really think this is the time to release such important information ?im not trolling you , im trying to reason with you.

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What would be the time to release information on something, beside "when it's ready"?

The lodestone is an information center. It's there to give information. I'm personally interested in receiving such information, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. If they decide to change something in the game, I'm happy to be informed about it, and prompted to give my opinion. The small size of the effects is one of the things I always felt needed improvement, so I'm glad they're taking action on it.

I don't see why they should withold information that they have, just because it's not "big" (which is still debatable, it could easily have an at least sizable visual effect, as increasing the size of monsters did. This kind of change is the very first thing the modding community does to PC-based RPGs as soon as they crack them open, and it improves them visibly), and because some people are some bent on the (wrong) idea that big changes should come at the snap of a finger, that they rage every time a (arguably) minor one is announced.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

What would be the time to release information on something, beside "when it's ready"?

The lodestone is an information center. It's there to give information. I'm personally interested in receiving such information, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. If they decide to change something in the game, I'm happy to be informed about it, and prompted to give my opinion. The small size of the effects is one of the things I always felt needed improvement, so I'm glad they're taking action on it.

I don't see why they should withold information that they have, just because it's not "big" (which is still debatable, it could easily have an at least sizable visual effect, as increasing the size of monsters did. This kind of change is the very first thing the modding community does to PC-based RPGs as soon as they crack them open, and it improves them visibly), and because some people are some bent on the (wrong) idea that big changes should come at the snap of a finger, that they rage every time a (arguably) minor one is announced.

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Ok man, i see nothing i say can change your view of thins ,so is pretty pointless to keep arguing past this point.
I think if they ever reverted to beta state of the game you would say "is to have a clean start" , the game is in horrible state, we need big changes , everyone expecting the big changes, and we get a animation size increase.

Like i said sometimes is better to not say anything at all.(and by say i mean introduce , update, etc) Is simple logic.im not angry , im just disappointed . There is a big difference.Not everyone have as much patience as you guys do to wait until game gets better. Getting Britney Spears when im waiting for AC/DC in a scenario is as disappointing as this.

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Originally Posted by Zkieve

Wish i could be as naive . Honestly . I do wish so.if in 3 months this is what they can accomplish , i think we are waiting for a lot longer than i personally will wait on this game to recover.
Honestly wish im wrong from the bottom of a small fan heart.

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I may be wrong, I'm not claiming otherwise. Yet the estimated development time for all of the topics in the "In Development" forum is from one to three-four months at most, especially if they are released in stages like the combat system overhaul. The time is due for everything listed to be complete in May. Either they deliver or they won't, but you can't look at the last 3 (2 really) months as an indicator of anything. It is not naive to assume that the development of the larger topics on that list takes more than few months. The smaller topics have been implemented in stages in the last few months too, not all at once. Even if alone they do not require that much development time, added together they still make quite a list of planned changes, enough to last for months as well.

Seriously, if you look at the topic for "AH", "Jumping" or "Combat overhaul" and assume that the development of those features takes as little time and resources as the development on "Implementation of increased item sizes after finalization" or "Improvements to skill point acquisition for parties", that's just not how it works. There is a reason why small changes are coming before the big ones, it is because they take less time to develop and there is no reason to not implement them if they're ready.

They can still mess up the rehauls and/or delay them, but we are only now getting to the point when we should expect the majority of content in the producer's letters to be done. If they were working on them since September that wouldn't be the case, but they have been working on them since January at best, February at worst. We all know why that is.

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Originally Posted by Zkieve

Ok man, i see nothing i say can change your view of thins ,so is pretty pointless to keep arguing past this point.

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So the only purpose you have for discussion is to "change my views"?
My views are mostly based on experience, and experience doesn't change because someone (that by his own admission lacks experience) argues against it.

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I think if they ever reverted to to beta state of the game you would say "is to have a clean start" , the game is in horrible state, we need big changes , everyone expecting the big changes, and we get a animation size increase.

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I would say that losing track of smaller details just because we need big changes wold be rather detrimental. Game development isn't made of airtight compartments, and a development team is normally split in several teams, and there are several moments in which individuals are prompted to work on smaller things in order to fill dead times or times in which their major projects are stalled even by something as simple as waiting for a complementary team to catch up on work.
Smaller things obviously get released first. because they're faster to implement. This is simple logic.

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Like i said sometimes is better to not say anything at all. Is simple logic.im not angry , im just disappointed . There is a big difference.Not everyone have as much patience as you guys do to wait until game gets better. Getting Britney Spears when im waiting for AC/DC in a scenario is as disappointing as this.

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There are obviously numerous people that are interested even in smaller changes. There's simply no reason to keep them in the dark because some don't know the meaning of patience.

if you aren't interested in a change, simply ignore it. I'm glad to be informed.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

So the only purpose you have for discussion is to "change my views"?
My views are mostly based on experience, and experience doesn't change because someone (that by his own admission lacks experience) argues against it.



I would say that losing track of smaller details just because we need big changes wold be rather detrimental. Game development isn't made of airtight compartments, and a development team is normally split in several teams, and there are several moments in which individuals are prompted to work on smaller things in order to fill dead times or times in which their major projects are stalled even by something as simple as waiting for a complementary team to catch up on work.
Smaller things obviously get released first. because they're faster to implement. This is simple logic.



There are obviously numerous people that are interested even in smaller changes. There's simply no reason to keep them in the dark because some don't know the meaning of patience.

if you aren't interested in a change, simply ignore it. I'm glad to be informed.

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Way to miss the point.Im sorry not everyone comes here to praise what have not been done yet.I am a fan and i am extremely disappointed.Your enthusiasm and blind faith is annoying when way over half of the fans are disappointed.Im yet to see you agree that anything is wrong within this game at all.You dont need a game development degree to see how much wrong is currently in game and how small and disappointing this small fixes are, so go lecture someone else, if you cared to read my first post you would had seen my disclaimer saying i couldnt care less about development.

I am a gamer and i speak as one , i already have a real job witch i love .Im here to have fun.

Are you fucking kidding me? Se you honestly think an increase in size will make IT ALL SUPER AWESOME?

The Duration Sucks
The Effect Sucks
The Animation Sucks

Making Flare a little big bigger doesn't make it feel impressive.

Such a let down.

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Originally Posted by viion

Are you fucking kidding me? Se you honestly think an increase in size will make IT ALL SUPER AWESOME?

The Duration Sucks
The Effect Sucks
The Animation Sucks

Making Flare a little big bigger doesn't make it feel impressive.

Such a let down.

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Yeah!

look at 0:50, that should be our FLARE T.T

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8JZo...tailpage#t=50s

same engine, same company, why can't we get these?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXoJX...tailpage#t=65s

look at that freakin tornado <3

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Originally Posted by Zkieve

Way to miss the point.Im sorry not everyone comes here to praise what have not been done yet.I am a fan and i am extremely disappointed.Your enthusiasm and blind faith is annoying when

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Blind faith? Lol. I have no blind faith. I don't know if they'll turn the game sizably for the better. There's quite a BIG difference between having blind faith and being willing to give a developer the physical time to make the necessary changes. Especially when they're not requiring me to pay a fee and they're giving me some quite clear signals that they're working hard.

You're not annoyed by blind faith. You're annoyed by realism. Sorry about that, but an injection of realism is quite needed in this forum, as some people have a way oversimplified idea of the challenges and times of game development.

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way over half of the fans are disappointed.

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Did you poll them?

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Im yet to see you agree that anything is wrong within this game at all.

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This just means that your reading is very, very selective.

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I am a gamer and i speak as one

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yep, and it's always disappointing to see that many gamers seem to be absolutely convinced that they know better about game development than developers that have been successful in the industry for decades.

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Originally Posted by viion

Are you fucking kidding me? Se you honestly think an increase in size will make IT ALL SUPER AWESOME?

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Where exactly did anyone write that it will make it ALL SUPER AWESOME?
It will make it better. Which is, by definition, a good thing.

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Originally Posted by Poipori

Yeah!

look at 0:50, that should be our FLARE T.T

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yep, it'd be super exciting to see that lovely (not a doubt) effect at 5 FPS when five mages throw at the same time during an NM battle.
Single player -> Limited environment. The developer knows at every time how many effects will be displayed at the same time, and has much wider limits in order to mantain a decent framerate.
MMORPG -> Almost unlimited environment, the developers doesn't know for sure how many people are going to activate the same spell/effect at the same time, and as such have to limit the hardware impact of every FX in order to make sure that having multiple at the same time won't bog down the engine.

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Originally Posted by Aceroth

Hmmm. I dunno. we've tested a lot. And other than the obvious INT not scaling with DMG as well as STR does for Melee. The cost of time to cast, stamina, and MP ( which is not as big an issue with MP regen in game now) makes casting "nukes" not worth the 40dmg they do to NMs. You could in fact cast 2 spirit darts in its place that do same if not more dmg and have a much higher chance to hit. And I won't even go into the AM's in the game now. Totally not worth the mp/time and such. I dunno, don't care to debate. G'night

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^THIS.
SO. MUCH.

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Originally Posted by Poipori

Yeah!

look at 0:50, that should be our FLARE T.T

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8JZo...tailpage#t=50s

same engine, same company, why can't we get these?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXoJX...tailpage#t=65s

look at that freakin tornado <3

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Hell yeh!!!

Abriael you have almost no idea what you're talking about lol All i'll say is other games (mmo) can do it.