Some additional thoughts/feelings after me playinbg some other mmos on this break...

I don't want a WoW Clone or FFXI-2. I want a game that is based off the best elements in various MMOs and aimed at both casual and hardcore audience so a lot of people around the world will play it.

I think Yoshi-P is heading in the right direction.

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Originally Posted by NintenPyjak64

I fail to see how GW2 is a "Wowclone"
I've played both, GW2 offers much more skill variety, eliminates the need for "pure tank" or "pure healer". If you don't move, you're getting hurt badly. All the quests in GW2, known as "Renowned Hearts" are what sets gw2 appart from traditional MMO quests, and each one of them has a little story to tell, where with WoW it was "accept, run to a spot, kill X mobs or find X drops, run back, accept more quests, etc etc etc"
GW2 even offers rewards for exploration, a wide variety of events and NPCs that makes the world somewhat of a "living world", a wide assortment of weapons that each have different skills for each class.
again, how is gw2 a "wowclone" when both games feel and are entirely different? Or is it just a loose term to describe MMOs these days?

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a game that is not including long wait time for party, streamlined UI, has indicator on quest, is WOWish

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Originally Posted by Darkhaund

During this time, i had the chance to see Tera, GW2 and SWTOR

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The only good thing to come out of TOR are companion characters, the mod system and healing specced Bounty Hunters. I never thought I would find something that could make me like healing, then I found a healing design where shooting my allies in the face helped them get better. :O

I've been daydreaming of Chemist using pistols to shoot their allies to get better since then. Works quite well, too.

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Originally Posted by Ricky

Level 25 Ifrit and level 45 Garuda were pretty menacing man, of course it would have been better if they were level capped

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Oh yea low level content to unlock high level content doesn't work well in MMOs. Nobody did level 25 ifrit with a level 25 party. Everyone wants to get to lvl cap as fast as they can. When I wanted to do the lv 25 ifrit I stood in uldah and shouted for 4 hours to get people to do the lv 25 ifrit so I could join groups for lv50 one. Sad part is he died in like 3 hits.

If you miss the rush at the start of people unlocking content like the level 25 ifrit gating which took a 4 person party to even fight him you will be stuck in town shouting for people for a very long time.

I've been playing SWTOR and i really like the story for my sith character,... didn't like the jedi story as much. but i must say i didn't think i wanted or liked it until SWTOR i never really played a mmo that had heavy voice acting in it for all quest and such but now that I have I really do enjoy it. I know the feat would be to large to add voice acting to every quest but I'd love to compromise and have real voice acting in Main storyline missions.

Been playing Tera in the interim, I tried the open beta a while back and dismissed it as a WoW/Aion clone. While the quests are indeed that, the combat is something altogether different...and completely awesome.

I'd kill somebody to be able to stick my Warrior from that into this game.

I've been playing..... *coughWoWcoughhackwheeze*


Aaaaaand it's not bad.


Well, it's not bad now that I'm level 80+

Levels 15-80 were mostly forgettable quest-leveling-repetitive bullshit that Blizzard oh-so-obviously just wanted to rush me through (my Monk has a daily quest that gives me 50% exp bonus for an hour! Also I can fly across the ground and have a 1.5min recast insta-kill ability! SO DIFFICULT!). Honestly it wasn't until I recently started hitting the mid-Cataclysm areas and quests that I really started paying attention to the story - that is the game actually made the story decent and not something I had to read to enjoy. I'm really liking the desert area. "LOOKIT ME! I'M A MANATAUR!"

There's not much real difficulty, yet, anyway.

Crafting is a joke. And from what I can tell, Blizzard's attempts at revitalizing their crafting is also pretty much a joke (get cooking from 1-300 in a matter of hours! WHOOPEE!).

Apart from that, I do enjoy being healer. And there's something to be said about being able to kick the snot out of giant tyranosaurs, flying freely over floating rocks in an endless void, and growing supersize to knock a giant octopus in the teeth. Blizzard knows how to fine-tune classes in such a way that is actually moderately enjoyable. And the zany-ness of it is something only their world can get away with.


Going from FFXIV 1.0 to WoW was pretty jarring. I almost gave up on it due to boredom for the first 10 or so levels. I'm hoping that the 2.0 ARR Beta will show that SE doesn't aim to merely copy WoW and throw in Chocobos. Alpha at least showed that they care about quests enough to make them palatable (my analogy for the majority of WoW's quests is sugar-coated hamster turds).

I look forward to seeing what SE can do with their breadth of expertise in lore, visuals, and difficulty.

too long didn't read any of this thread because I am sure its just full of elexia and the other XI crusaders clinging to the remnants of oblivion.

Just wanted to point out that its technically against the terms of service to discuss other games -- including XI.

LOL

/thread.

In all seriousness though, neither yours, mine, nor anyone elses opinions matter at this point in the game development. I don't understand why people suddenly post these revelations when the core systems have been built and they aren't going to make any super dramatic changes in four months to how the core/main game is going to function.

You SHOULD have a good idea of the systems in place by now.

What COULD change, is feedback about minor things. Like text sizes, hair colors, spell effects, etc.

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Originally Posted by Tibian

In all seriousness though, neither yours, mine, nor anyone elses opinions matter at this point in the game development. I don't understand why people suddenly post these revelations when the core systems have been built and they aren't going to make any super dramatic changes in four months to how the core/main game is going to function.

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The problem is most people weren't asking about what the core systems would be like and press on stuff like class and job design when the letters of the producer came. Instead they asked whether breasts would bounce during movement and stuff about Masamune and Excalibur. Or shall I say, the questions about systems and whatnot were not picked. =/

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Originally Posted by Denmo

Going from FFXIV 1.0 to WoW was pretty jarring. I almost gave up on it due to boredom for the first 10 or so levels.

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I know 1.0 was boring for the first 10 levels, so don't feel bad. =_=

Are you familiar with warcraft lore? Most of the stuff in the early leveling zones plays on stuff mentioned in the books and other locations. Some of it is kinda based on the pre-cataclysm version of those quests. And several of the more memorable hubs were removed. Like Un'goro crater, AKA the zone that is an homage to old school games (I still miss Linken and his Sword of Mastery).

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Originally Posted by Darkhaund

By WoWized i dont mean a type of lets say "standard" but the lack of lore, story-telling, amazing CS etc etc.

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Woooow. I'm not even a fan of WoW, but I know that it had a massive amount of lore and a really involved storyline. Maybe you didn't like the presentation of said lore and story. Maybe it wasn't offered to you in a way that was engaging to you so you didn't notice it. But it's definitely there.

While I completely understand your point OP, and for the most part agree, as other have said in this thread, ARR has already been '"WoWized"/standarized'. With Beta literally right around the corner, this topic would be better discussed after getting a feel for what 2.0 will be at launch. We can only hope that by 'bringing this game up to the standard' they've also included enough content to appeal to the wide range of player preferences ARR will face at launch. And if not, I'm sure they'll hear allllll about it.

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

My point isn't related to the game, but towards you. Every single post you made lately have a similar sentence, it's starting to be a meme and it's quite annoying.
The game got a direction, a direction you don't like. Ok ? Why you're still here then ? i can't understand why a product you really don't like still require your presence. IF you really hate it so much it's time to move on something more similar to your tastes don't ?

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I have been barking up that tree for some time now. You may as well be asking why the skies blue. Some people just enjoy pooping in other folks cheerios.

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Originally Posted by Darkhaund

As I have mentioned on past times, if ARR turns out to be too WoWized and too commercial it will be done for me. I will probably quit MMOs or in any case check the new XI expansion. I have to admit I am not a fan of "modern" mmos. And your made a PERFECT example of zones... in modern MMOs you get pushed out of zones as you level, and they do not have any mayor meaning to you.

I still have very strong and fond memories of places like SKY, SEA, boyada tree etc

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this is about it for me, i'm done with mmo's till they stop making them this modern way. if SE or any company for that matter wants to go back to games with the depth and enjoyment that i like then i'll come back. i have better things to do then to waist my time playing mmo's i can't enjoy and quit within months. i want to play a mmo i can enjoy for many years. if that isn't good enough to make them money then they can just feed on the people who enjoy that kind of mmo. they can't keep taking my money.

i've played every mmo since i quit ffxi, ...warhammer,swtor, tera, the secret world, allods, d3, gw2, dcu, apb, league of legends, beta's were enough to play the other mmo's and say hell no, like champions and tried old ass mmo's like maple story and runescape and eve but quit in a day, weather they might of been something i would of enjoyed they are too old and couldn't get into them. so, lets say i've not enjoyed any of them for more then a few months, even warhammer witch i played the longest of a year, it was only enjoyable for so long and leveling any new toons was a chore compared to ffxi. witch says a lot. it's been a good 5-6years now and not a one mmo that i can call good. and it's now starting to take it's toll, i'm tiered of getting excited about a mmo and then quitting in months and handing these asses my money cause everything they say is bs all the way to launch.

anyway, bring back stuff like sky, sea, HNM's, full linkshell events, party oriented everything, party grinds. or else you will never create a mmo that keeps the people who want to play games for years and not toss them out like they are offline disks.


tldr, bring back old school mmo's even if just one mmo and you will see it do better then any mmo out since ffxi and wow. also, screw all casuals. /end lol jk you know we love ya. but seriously.

Well, baring that ARR is going to be like WoW, I returned to WoW to gain a refresher on what am I am going to expect from Final Fantasy 14: A WoW Reborn

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Originally Posted by strallaalaa

it's now starting to take it's toll, i'm tiered of getting excited about a mmo and then quitting in months

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I feel the same way for the most part. I spent/wasted a good amount of time (and money..) trying out abuncha different MMOs over the past cupl years, and left them all for the same reasons, just was bored with the style/feel and progression just didn't feel important enough for my tastes. Guess they just weren't my cup of tea (though I didn't try quite as many as you did). I'm still very hopeful for ARR though, but if that (and TESO) doesn't appeal to me, I've already decided to step down from the MMO genre for awhile. I imagine that a new game that appeals to me would show up eventually, as I am seeing more and more players that share our mindset pop up all over the interwebs with blogs/posts/etc. Some lucky game company will decide to take our money one of these days!

Maybe can use kickstarter to make a pure hardcore game. I don't think game companies will make games like they used to since the average gamer is now an adult with more real life responsibilities.

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Originally Posted by Pseudopsia

Maybe can use kickstarter to make a pure hardcore game. I don't think game companies will make games like they used to since the average gamer is now an adult with more real life responsibilities.

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I love kickstarter so would be cool to see someone do it thru there. Not really looking for a purely hardcore game, but I guess that's based on how the word 'hardcore' is interpreted. I'm hoping that maybe the next generation of gamers, not current gamers, will look for something different in a MMO.. whether that will be for the better or worse we'll just have to see. By then we'll all prolly be playing with O. Rifts or on holodecks or something awesome hopefully too LOL.

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Originally Posted by shanvhere

Well, baring that ARR is going to be like WoW, I returned to WoW to gain a refresher on what am I am going to expect from Final Fantasy 14: A WoW Reborn

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Ouch - that hurt

Right? Well I hope they read these at times because I'm pumped for the game but definitely don't want the norm.

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Originally Posted by Exn

I love kickstarter so would be cool to see someone do it thru there. Not really looking for a purely hardcore game, but I guess that's based on how the word 'hardcore' is interpreted. I'm hoping that maybe the next generation of gamers, not current gamers, will look for something different in a MMO.. whether that will be for the better or worse we'll just have to see. By then we'll all prolly be playing with O. Rifts or on holodecks or something awesome hopefully too LOL.

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I tired FTP lord of the rings and was deeply disappointed by the FTP model. The community was fun but the nonstop questing routine is so boring.

Somewhat relevant. Most people don't even read though the quest lore in 1.0

How many people knew that Necromancer is part of the THM storyline? Almost none because they didn't care to read.

OP called Tera and GW2 WoW clones. OP has clearly never played at least 2 of the 3 games... possibly all 3.

but thank god for another one of these threads, right?

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Originally Posted by Darkhaund

if ARR turns out to be too WoWized and too commercial it will be done for me

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since apparently everything is like WoW to you even when it's actually not at all like WoW, ARR will almost certainly be "too-WoWized" for you and therefore good riddance

if ARR is fun, Ill take it no matter how WoWized it is

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Too bad SE said it first and recently stated they want it to compete and capture audiences or there's no real point.

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See this is probably the best way you could have said what you normally say. When you say "it's going to be mainstream", you normally sound like you're saying "it's going to fail for lack of originality". It's very annoying, and your character's condescending expression makes it even worse. However:

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While true, more MMOs are going down this path so one strength the FF MMOs had in originality is starting to slip away, especially since with XIV they're still going the 'open ended' route in a sense that most MMOs have. XI for example a good strength was the fact it played like a FF game, throughout the story you end up opening more options to yourself (like almost all FF game) and eventually unlock the "final area", again like almost every FF game. You unlocked Sky and Sea through progressing the storyline which unlocks a bit more content for you to do as well as additional leveling places.

Most MMOs push you out of zones through quest chaining so you don't really get a real "attachment" to areas since once you wear out quests you'll want to go to the next zone and rinse and repeat. FF games generally give you an attachment to many areas usually through backtracking but mostly through sidequests outside of the main path. So all they really have to do is make it more of a FF game in setup and execution, much like they did with XI, it was based on EQ baseline but they made it their own.

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This I'll agree with, for the most part. Fortunately all of the lower level content in XI is still there for players to enjoy, even though their more recent focus is on endgame since they don't expect many new players to an old game. But what you've said about the progression of area accessibility is absolutely true. The Tavnazian Archipelago is an excellent early-game example. After 3 fairly difficult dungeons (recently made easier), you stumble on this beautiful and inspiring new land. It feels just as remote and abandoned as is appropriate for the plot. The same is even more true of Al'Taieu or Ru'Aun Gardens: abandoned, devoid of any NPCs except those who travel there during the plot. I should hope that we have similarly mystifying endgame areas in XIV.

This also reminds me that I prefer XI's setup to questing. I don't want to be told "go kill 6 mobs" over and over again. I want to have to get a random drop. This ensures people are less likely to have the exact same experience with each quest. "I got it in 1 kill" vs. "I got it in 5." No matter how much you all hate RNG, the luck (good or bad) and how we handle it builds character. It's probably too late for them to redesign this system, though, and in the end it's not really that big a deal. (I still play XI, intending to play both.)

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Most MMOs push you out of zones through quest chaining so you don't really get a real "attachment" to areas since once you wear out quests you'll want to go to the next zone and rinse and repeat. FF games generally give you an attachment to many areas usually through backtracking but mostly through sidequests outside of the main path.

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As for this statement alone it is totally a matter of opinion. Majority of my favorites zones from MMOs comes from WoW where the quests take you all over the zone and you get to explore it while questing instead of never seeing said corner of any given map like in XI. Though I will have to say my favorite bit of exploring and attachment would belong to Everquest where areas were rich and worth branching out off the beaten path.

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Originally Posted by -S-a-g-e

As for this statement alone it is totally a matter of opinion. Majority of my favorites zones from MMOs comes from WoW where the quests take you all over the zone and you get to explore it while questing instead of never seeing said corner of any given map like in XI. Though I will have to say my favorite bit of exploring and attachment would belong to Everquest where areas were rich and worth branching out off the beaten path.

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there isn't a inch of the game that ffxi doesn't take you too. between quests, missions, nm's, and everything else. fact just nm's themselves would of been good enough reason to see many zones. least for people who played the game and didn't just buy gil and played the same few endgames over and over again. there were tons of awesome looking places in ffxi to see that you would be exploring or trying to find a spot for something you need. even if you looked up the position on the web for the quest it probably still took you threw most of that zone. i'll agree quests weren't rewarding in ffxi, but they were quality in my opinion. i enjoyed all of them. majority of them had mini bosses. and they didn't have to be fast kill quests like other mmo's. and i've said it a million times but you can actually take your time and read them and watch the cs's this way. hopefully everquest3 will be like ffxi and eq1, never played any eq mmo but if everyone is saying they are what ffxi took some of itself from so ...here is to hoping it's great. probably be my last mmo i try to play.

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Originally Posted by Ricky

Level 25 Ifrit and level 45 Garuda were pretty menacing man, of course it would have been better if they were level capped

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It would also have been better if we had those contents before everyone had all lvl50 classes....

I've been playing Secret World with some XIV friends and I've got to say, its truly an amazing game. I've tried SWTOR, WoW, Aion, Tera, that one about super heroes, but none of them have captured my attention like XIV did, until Secret World. If i could take XIV and overlay it on top of TSW it would be the GREATEST GAME OF ALL TIME. The things i wished XIV would do, TSW did and vice-versa. Though, if I had to choose, I'd still take XIV 1.0 over anything else out there. Cant even imagine how much more im going to like 2.0!

I know Yoshida said he wants to bring XIV to mmo standarts but why does this automatically mean that he won't add anything beyond this that makes the game good or that going this route automatically eradicates everything positive that could possibly happen to the game?

To me the term "standardise" rather evokes the impression of user-friendliness, accessibility of content (I, too, found it really hard to get into FFXIV at the beginning. The beginning is vital - you have to catch people here and no I do not mean spoon-feeding!) and (technical) mechanics. For example the general audience was really unhappy about the complicated UI (and other things like the map), the restricting mechanisms such as the fatigue system and apparently the engine SE had programmed for the game was rather messed up.

What is so bad about making the outer construction of a game, or let's say the frame of it, standard at minimum?
Isn't an amazing story, a very deep fantasy world, and challenging and fun fights what sets final fantasy apart? That it is actually a profound world and not just a "I want to make quick money with an rpg, but crap, I need a story so I just puzzle a generic one to cover my game with it"-story?


What I hope will set this game apart is that this game holds a great story that is told and can be experienced in a fun way . Where the story is not only a make shift to do repetitive stuff but is what the game is about. (Note: I'm NOT saying that gaining awesome gear and stuff is bad but it surely becomes boring if there is no variety of content, huh?)
I have the feeling though that Yoshi and his team actually take the issue of a good story serious so if they want to do something that is not "standard" then they should fill XIV with amazing storyplay.

Furthermore I really hope that the fights will be fun and challenging and this is probably my only point of real concern. :/
Some people seem to fear that Yoshi wants to go on the "spoon-feeding" route. I can't really remember when this was said so if you can provide a link to the source or sth. similar then I'd really like to inform myself about it.


If SE can handle to make a really good fighting system with according content that is challenging and incorporate it fluently into a really good story - when you can feel the quality of it - then I don't care if whatsover is similar to WoW or to this or that game. Then it will be a good game to me.

Just my humble opinion though.

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Originally Posted by Lady

Suddenly get the feeling that this thread is being invaded by the "FFXIV should be FFXI-2" group.

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I fear you're right. (sigh)

I'll go get the can of RAID.

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Originally Posted by schism

I'd rather them copy from a game they made instead of a game they didnt. ^.- Gaurantee you get more ppl playing it too.

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I'd rather they just made a game that's fun, engaging, has it's own awesome storyline and excellent features. If the gameplay is similar to another mmo's gameplay, I don't give a crap, as long as it's playable and enjoyable. Guarantee a lot of people will flock to the game.

League of Legends and Ragnarok Online have been my choice games for the break. Although completely different styles [and a genre]. These games I feel had a large benefit of my understanding of roles, and how expansive the role pool is compared to how many FF players may feel it is. Not so much ragnarok, but especially league. I also like how active both of these games are [comparing to ffxi which felt very snail paced.] and so I'm hoping to see more active combat come to ARR.