Time Mage Awareness

blm already has flare if anything you could give blm ultima as a limit break

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Originally Posted by Rustyhagun

Actually Black mage should have Flare as their last tier spell... Whatever though. maybe Dev team could give Time Mage a Black Hole type spell to replace Meteor if Black mages are so set to have that spell.

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X-Zone, baby! Some of you cats don't dig too much for your ideas, I guess. And since we've already seen BLM throw down a meteor in a trailer, I don't think it's really a "BLMs super want Meteor so I guess we can let those crybabies have it" so much as a "hey look BLMs already have Meteor, or at least Comet or whatever". And Flare as the ultimate BLM spell... what?

That all aside! The rest is just general comments to the thread in general:

Speculating on what would/wouldn't work in 1.0 is ridiculous. 2.0 is going to be a radically different game. It would be like saying stuff that wouldn't work in FF11 wouldn't work in FF14, so we shouldn't have it. Don't expect the limiting game systems or whatever else to still exist, like... we could only have so many abilities in 1.0 so there's NO WAY blah blah could work in 2.0!

Speculating on 2.0 is also ridiculous, in terms of what would/wouldn't work, or how it should work. I suspect that RDM, for example, is not going to be terribly similar to the RDM we saw in FF11. I'm not for/against Time Mage, but I guarantee you that if the FF14 team decides they want to do any particular job, they will be able to think of a way to stylize it in a way that it doesn't ridiculously overlap another job... What would be the point otherwise?

Also, please stop suggesting jobs as classes. Like, Time Mage should be the class and Red Mage should be the job... What? That's like the goof who was saying Thief should turn into Ninja, when ideally all of the jobs should be stylized, and not branching out of each other. That's like saying White Mage should be the class and Paladin should be the job. No thank you!

tl;dr ver.: Speculation is pointless. The dev team should be more than capable of making any classic FF job into a unique and stylized addition to FF14 without significant overlap of other jobs, and any such additions are not likely to fit the mold of your preconceived notions or wish lists of any particular job (BRD should have made that super clear).

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

I personally wouldn't like RDM in XIV. A jack of all trades has no place in an MMO.

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What.. That's almost every battle class.

This is starting to become one of those boring threads where people repeat information over and over without actually making any points. I will dot point mine so they are nice and clear, easy to read and so the garbage arguments (on both sides) aren't repeated over and over.

- The spellset that was listed, has very little utility in it's original, FF lore form, if it is not already tied to / can be given to other jobs.

- Enfeebs can easily become unbalanced and overpowered in general, especially "time" based magic which causes the enemy to stop performing actions, or speeds up the player's ability to perform actions. This, in any MMO can be considered heavily overpowered if not done correctly.

- If someone wishes to become a haste bot so I can kill stuff faster on my melee, by all means I welcome it.

- I would rather see RDM branch and and become that "melee mage/support" job instead of a haste bot. This being said I truly hope the focus is on their self buffs such as En- and damage spikes, tied with fast auto-attack and decently heavy weapon skills, rather then the whole haste/refresh/enfeeb bot. Boring class was boring in party play.

- While some people are ignoring the fact that I have stated multiple times, that if done correctly, the job may be viable and wouldn't disagree with implementing it, however taking priority over more traditional FF jobs is blasphemy. The jobs I am talking about are: Red Mage, Dark Knight, Blue Mage, Corsair/Musketeer, Thief, Ninja, Samurai.... To name a few.

Release the jobs I just listed, then I will listen/care about releasing niche/hybrid jobs such as Time Mage.

Red mage and Time mage aren't competing for the same spot in the least and I'm unsure why so much argument about it continues. I'm not going to go into depth about the differences I'd suggest going back and playing some old games.

If anyone had read the post I linked to (Foolish I know) I stated I fully anticipated other jobs way before Time Mage.

As for people declaring stuns(stop), hastes and reflects are too OP that is kinda small minded(Almost an old Tanaka we can't give them anything mindset) Stop can be just a couple of seconds to stun enemies, Reflect could be a quick cast long cooldown spell used in tricky situations to help a tank out if an enemy is about to land a huge spell (Not all the damage has to be sent back to them just a percentage of it) As for stop alot of bosses could just be immune to it, remember back in the day when old FF bosses were randomly immune to a ton of enfeebling magic?


One way I see Time Mage being implemented would be a crowd control support job.

For instance you're in a dungeon there's a large group of enemies have the Time Mage cast Gravity on them as the tank pulls out one or two to fight without gravity on them, then he casts Haste on his party and slow and Age(Old) on the enemy (to decrease their attack speed and lower their stats over time), then some of the gravity'd enemies get closer so he binds them giving the party more time to take on the mobs. Maybe he even has a long cooldown expensive magic spell like Comet to deal some damage every other battle or so. Maybe they were fighting Bombs, and while the Bomb was casting self destruct the Time Mage used Stop to momentarily stun and prevent the blast from ravaging your party. Maybe someone had to leave and you invited someone new and had the Time Mage spawn a portal at their location to pick them up.

I mean these are all things possible and being done in other games, nothing is game breaking nothing encroaches on other jobs.


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- While some people are ignoring the fact that I have stated multiple times, that if done correctly, the job may be viable and wouldn't disagree with implementing it, however taking priority over more traditional FF jobs is blasphemy. The jobs I am talking about are: Red Mage, Dark Knight, Blue Mage, Corsair/Musketeer, Thief, Ninja, Samurai.... To name a few.

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Oh yeah? Corsair/Musketeer is a traditional Final Fantasy job? Since when? Enlighten me. As for all the coloured mages I agree we need them all in the game, as for my post I stated I fully expected and anticipated Thief, Ninja and Samurai to be implemented first (With the lack of Thief being a grievious Final Fantasy sin in my opinion. How many main characters were Thief? A ton.)

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- The spellset that was listed, has very little utility in it's original, FF lore form, if it is not already tied to / can be given to other jobs.

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Warps, and Teleports are utility, and since when has anyone cared about classes not having utility, there is practically none of what is known as traditional MMORPG utility in FFXIV or FFXI at all. Utility is generally none combat. As for float that could also be considered a utility (Slow fall) however I don't see a use for it and didn't list it since we will only be jumping over small little cliffs.

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Originally Posted by Syrokko

You said...

Slow- pretty sure this is gonna be an ARC spell
An Archer spell...?
I'm going to go ahead and assume that you meant Arcanist. Regardless of whether or not this ends up in Arcanist's arsenal, it's still Time Magic.

Immobilize - Same thing as bind
So what if it is the same thing as Bind? The current version of the game has a few spells that are capable of inflicting the effect, but we don't have anything quite so direct and dependent on combo/TP.

Reflect - wont happen in a mmo unless the buff last like 2 secs
Who said a buff can't last two seconds? Completely viable spell.

Disable - players can do that with ws curently (wont know if possible in ARR)
Your argument is that because the effect is interwoven into a Weaponskill currently, a more direct version of the effect should not exist. The lack of logic in your arguments continues to astound me.

Vanish- useless
Because Sneak and Invisible in XI were so gosh-darn useless in XI, right? Who needs mob evasion anyway... /sarcasm.

Gravity- in game alrdy
We have a spell called "Gravity" in our game already...? A spell that attempts to directly inflict the effect of WEIGHT onto the target...? Why was I not informed...

Haste- wont be in game
Please continue with your prophetic tellings of how things will be in the future...
It brings me much amusement.

Stop- too OP
You - too narrow-minded. There is more to a spell than just the damage/status it inflicts on the target. Variables like duration/cooldown/cost/resistance and other constraints such as the spell needing to be combo'd for the effect to proc are all aspects that are taken into consideration when creating game balance.

Bleed-this is in the game as well and CNJ still has the effect from aero in ARR as seen in the Live letter 3
Once again, you're arguing that because the effect is interwoven into existing spells, a spell that inflicts the effect in a more direct manner should not exist...?

Break- would be to too OP or too useless
Such bold statements you make. Have you played any other FF before?
1. Inflicting Break does not count as a KO, and thus, does not reward items/gil/experience.
2. Break is an enfeeble that inflicts "Petrify" for a short period of time, which is essentially Immobilize and Disable, but unlike Stop, you cannot inflict damage on the Petrified target.
It's a spell that inflicts a status with unique properties.

Float- could be useful
Yes... I suppose a spell that completely or even partially nullifies Earth magic "could be useful".
...
If you start thinking any funny stuff (such as the spell being too "OP"), look back to the statements I made in reply to your argument against the Stop spell.

Vanishga- useless
Because inflicting the effect of Invisible on the entire party is useless...
Tell us more, oh wise one.

Warp- another useless spell that would not work on mobs
Who said the spell had to target mobs?

Reflectga- same as reflect
Slowga- same as slow
Graviga- same as Gravity
Narrow-minded to the end...

Hastega- this wont be in game also
There you go again, with your prophetic visions...

Drain- this was a thm spell
And...?

Reverse- not even time magic at all
Um.. What...

Bubble- not even time magic
Because Mana Shield was not a Time Mage thing... Right...?

Syphon- was an thm spell before as well
And...?

Undo- LOL
I suppose the idea of removing the last inflicted enfeeble from a target is laughable to you.

Comet- Yeah right
A spell that inflicts massive non-elemental damage in an AoE and is affiliated with time/space...? What's so "yeah right" about that?

Meteorite - Limit break for blm <.<
In Final Fantasy Tactics, the description for this spell reads "Time magic that warps space-time, causing an enormous meteor to fall on the battlefield."
Just another spell that's way more iconic of Time Mage being placed on a class that's hardly deserving of it.

All you have presented is evidence of your own closed-mindedness and a plethora of flawed logic.
I recommend thinking more carefully before posting in future.

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Like i said they can get short charge quick control and speed up the pace of over all combat
fill limit gauge faster etc there is many more ways to do things.
dont limit others to that of your own abilities.
also if you looked at my class branch approach this is another option thm/tmg thm/blm
gld/pld gld/drk mar/bsm mar/war con/sch con/whm arc/rng arc/brd lnc/drg lnc/sam then bring another /thf /nin etc or maybe ronin or w/e base class for sam i dunno but come up with ideas.
not complaints only be positive.

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Originally Posted by Altena

- While some people are ignoring the fact that I have stated multiple times, that if done correctly, the job may be viable and wouldn't disagree with implementing it, however taking priority over more traditional FF jobs is blasphemy. The jobs I am talking about are: Red Mage, Dark Knight, Blue Mage, Corsair/Musketeer, Thief, Ninja, Samurai.... To name a few.

Release the jobs I just listed, then I will listen/care about releasing niche/hybrid jobs such as Time Mage.

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All I really get out of this is "Time Mage is ok with me as long as they release the jobs I want first."

Time Mage is a traditional FF job as well, so what's the issue? Because it hasn't appear in AS MANY games as the other listed?

Also, I'm failing to see any truly concerning points in your argument.
-You say "Haste Bot". Speculation.
-You say "Unbalanced." Speculation.
-You're saying Red Mage over Time Mage when they are completely different jobs and have totally separate roles, especially when you specify a focus on Enspells, auto-attacks and weaponskills, which Time Mage wouldn't have.
-You say "Haste/Refresh/Enfeeb bot" which tells me you don't know Red Mage outside of FFXI, which is tragic.

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

If there were ever a listing for misinformed and completely off-base posts, yours and Altena's would be way up there. No offense, but this list and your reasoning are both horseshit, guys.

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As for you, your attempt at insults and defaming is laughable. You do not have the diplomatic power to decide whose reasoning is "hoseshit" and whose is not. While reasons can be different, opinions will never determine which of those reasons are "hoseshit" or not. Try again.

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<insert boring list that doesn't "fix" anything here>

OK re-writing that list was boring and time-consuming, but the point is there are PLENTY of reasons why if they plan for it, Time Mage or any other class/job for that matter could work easily in the framework of 2.0 which, because apparently certain individuals need to be reminded, is going to have a very, VERY different set of rules.

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Next time, don't bother re-writing that list because you basically explained abilities everyone already knows, and wasted your time.

As for 2.0, I don't get why everyone is making the argument that we are blind rabbits and have no idea what is going on. It is pretty obvious that the battle system is getting overhauled in a functional sense (animation lock reduction, some major job reworks etc) but as a whole, it is still going to be the same game essentially. Combo system is staying but being modified, classes are being reworked, battle regimes are being reimplemented... What this has to do with changing the effectiveness of certain spells that are deemed to be either useless or OP (by my standards) is beyond me to be honest.

Just a small example is "Stop" "Immobilize" "Disable". Preventing a boss from performing any action for any duration of time has a high chance of being OP in any battle system... It also seems that everyone including yourself is putting a heavy weight on these being the main point of a "Time Mage". Look at that ability list again... You padded out 3 spells that do almost exactly the same thing. The only spells that you did mention have been given to Red Mage/Black Mage/White mage in previous FF's (not just XI, which is not where I have been basing my points off anyway). These spells are: Slow (red mage/white mage), reflect (white mage), vanish/blink (white mage), gravity (black mage/red mage), haste (red mage/BLACK mage actually).

While sure they are "time/space" based spells, implementing a whole job based around a few buff spells seems like a waste of resources. Spend that time on Dark Knight, or Blue Mage (an actual unique mage), Musketeer/Corsair... etc

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Just a small example is "Stop" "Immobilize" "Disable". Preventing a boss from performing any action for any duration of time has a high chance of being OP in any battle system...

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As I've and others have stated Bosses can be immune to stuns and in most Final Fantasy games are immune to most if not all status ailments.

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You padded out 3 spells that do almost exactly the same thing.

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Crowd Control
Bind - Crowd control prevent movement
Gravity - Crowd control slows movement
Stop - Crowd control stuns target

Enfeeble
Slow - Enfeeble, increases delay for attacks / abilities
Old - Enfeeble decreases stats over time

Support
Haste - Buff decreases delay for attacks / abilities
Reflect - Bounces a spell back at it's caster

Utility
Teleport - Utility brings other players to Time Mage's location
Vanish - Sneak / Invis

Damage
Comet - Nuke

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Originally Posted by Endigiont

As I've and others have stated Bosses can be immune to stuns and in most Final Fantasy games are immune to most if not all status ailments.

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Indeed.

It's like saying "They shouldn't implement a Death spell because killing bosses with one spell will be too OP." Resistances and Immunities can be adjusted for bosses.

Even on basic spells. Say Slow is a 10% slow and Slow II is a 15% slow. Adjust Ifrit's resistances so it's 5% slow for Slow I and 8-10% for Slow II.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

All I really get out of this is "Time Mage is ok with me as long as they release the jobs I want first."

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Pretty much. Fulfil the more common FF lore before releasing a niche job that appears in a small handful of FF's comparatively.

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Time Mage is a traditional FF job as well, so what's the issue? Because it hasn't appear in AS MANY games as the other listed?

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Traditional in 2-3 out of 13 games? Yep...

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Also, I'm failing to see any truly concerning points in your argument.
-You say "Haste Bot". Speculation. Speculation but an informed one. What else is a "time mage" going to do in a fight that's even half worth doing?
-You say "Unbalanced." Speculation. Speculation but an informed one. Spells such as Stop (preventing an enemy from doing anything ie. long duration stun) will be OP. Making mobs immune to it will make it useless. Therefore unbalanced.
-You're saying Red Mage over Time Mage when they are completely different jobs and have totally separate roles, especially when you specify a focus on Enspells, auto-attacks and weaponskills, which Time Mage wouldn't have. No. If you have even read half my posts that isn't my argument. I want RDM to become a En~ based melee fighter. I am saying that the time/resources should be spent going into jobs that are MORE traditional in the lore, SUCH AS red mage, dark knight, sam, nin etc~
-You say "Haste/Refresh/Enfeeb bot" which tells me you don't know Red Mage outside of FFXI, which is tragic. I do actually. I was using XI's RDM as an example of what "Time Mage" will end up being. Please go back and re-read.

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http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Time_Mage

Even if Time Mage wasn't a playable Jobs in most games (Btw I'm counting like 8 games) there was often a nod at it being the source of certain types of magic. (Instance Tidus in X)

Anyhow I haven't heard ANYONE argue so far that they want Time Mage right here right now, as I've said if you read the post I linked to I even stated

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So what I'm hoping, and I'm patient with it... Is that after jobs like Ninja Thief and Samurai are introduced maybe one day we'll get to see the noble Time Mage strolling around Eorzea.

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Also notice the thread was called

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A Time Mage In Time (Time Mage Awareness)

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In time meaning EVENTUALLY


Also the games it appears in are all the ones with a JOB SYSTEM for the most part. It's not a niche.



EDIT:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...e-Awareness%29


Like I've said it was foolish of me to post to another thread because no one would read it, infact Altena you were the first to post on this thread being a downer without reading from day one, I stated the exact things you've been arguing about out in the open originally <,<;

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Originally Posted by Altena

Traditional in 2-3 out of 13 games? Yep...

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I count eight. Unless you're only counting main numbered titles, in which case you are ignorant.

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Originally Posted by Altena

Speculation but an informed one. What else is a "time mage" going to do in a fight that's even half worth doing?

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Buff, Enfeeb and Crowd Control, as has been presented earlier in the thread.

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Originally Posted by Altena

Speculation but an informed one. Spells such as Stop (preventing an enemy from doing anything ie. long duration stun) will be OP. Making mobs immune to it will make it useless. Therefore unbalanced.

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Bosses SHOULD have immunities and high resistances to certain spell types, while basic mobs can still be effected. This is the case in every final fantasy bar a few select moves like The End and Zanmato.

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Originally Posted by Altena

No. If you have even read half my posts that isn't my argument. I want RDM to become a En~ based melee fighter. I am saying that the time/resources should be spent going into jobs that are MORE traditional in the lore, SUCH AS red mage, dark knight, sam, nin etc~

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So again, jobs you personally feel should be added beforehand. This is not an argument, as I feel Time Mage should be implemented before SAM and NIN, yet I don't count this as a reason it SHOULD be added.

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Originally Posted by Altena

I do actually. I was using XI's RDM as an example of what "Time Mage" will end up being. Please go back and re-read.

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Then you are, once again, being ignorant.

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Originally Posted by Endigiont

As I've and others have stated Bosses can be immune to stuns and in most Final Fantasy games are immune to most if not all status ailments. So make a class with spells that are only useful against trash mobs that no one cares about?

EDIT:



Crowd Control
Bind - Crowd control prevent movement
Gravity - Crowd control slows movement
Stop - Crowd control stuns target
Single target spells are hardly "crowd control". Make them -ga's and I will change my opinion.

Enfeeble
Slow - Enfeeble, increases delay for attacks / abilities 1 spell, that can be given to Arcanist already. and probably will be (speculation/assumption, but that's all we have atm).
Old - Enfeeble decreases stats over time Impact had a similar effect in XI and wasn't very useful. Not saying it wouldn't be in XIV, just pointing out another MMO that tried it and didn't really get the utility out of it

Support
Haste - Buff decreases delay for attacks / abilities
Reflect - Bounces a spell back at it's caster
2 other spells that could be given to WHM to eliminate the need for an entire new class

Utility
Teleport - Utility brings other players to Time Mage's location Anima baby !
Vanish - Sneak / Invis Sneak is eliminated by walk mode. Invisible is eliminated by common sense.

Damage
Comet - Nuke BLM.

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Just my opinion...

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Originally Posted by Altena

Impact had a similar effect in XI and wasn't very useful. Not saying it wouldn't be in XIV, just pointing out another MMO that tried it and didn't really get the utility out of it

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You don't know what utility means and yet you keep spouting it out, Old utility? What?

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Single target spells are hardly "crowd control". Make them -ga's and I will change my opinion.

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As for not saying "GA" at the end of every spell seriously then you'd just complain I was reiterating EVERYTHING OVER AGAIN~!

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Anima baby !

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As for Teleport I'm thinking more along the lines of how Warlocks in WoW in the middle of a dungeon can pull other players in the party to their exact location and continue with the dungeon.

As for divvying up magic to blackmage or whitemage you could do that with everything basically.

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So make a class with spells that are only useful against trash mobs that no one cares about?

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You'd be more than happy to see a Time Mage at a boss because of all the support it'll give to the whitemage and the tank.

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Originally Posted by Endigiont

You don't know what utility means and yet you keep spouting it out, Old utility? What? As for not saying "GA" at the end of every spell seriously then you'd just complain I was reiterating EVERYTHING OVER AGAIN~! As for Teleport I'm thinking more along the lines of how Warlocks in WoW in the middle of a dungeon can pull other players in the party to their exact location and continue with the dungeon.

As for divvying up magic to blackmage or whitemage you could do that with everything basically.

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for you:

u·til·i·ty   [yoo-til-i-tee] A noun, plural u·til·i·ties, adjective
noun
1. the state or quality of being useful; usefulness: This chemical has no utility as an agricultural fertilizer.

So yes, I do know what utility means. i.e.. Impact / Old does not seem very useful.

When you explain teleport in that sense, it seems to have more UTILITY. (woops I used that word again).

And yes, you pretty much could do that with everything, but "time/space" has a fairly narrow skill set, and can be easily reallocated with only a couple of spells shuffled to BLM/WHM.

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Bosses SHOULD have immunities and high resistances to certain spell types, while basic mobs can still be effected. This is the case in every final fantasy bar a few select moves like The End and Zanmato.

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So you are saying bosses should be immune to the spells that would define that job? Also a lot of people don't consider FF tactics apart of the mains franchise/ they don't know or don't care about them all together. That is the reason why that person said 2-3 games out of the 13.

No see you don't know what utility means in mmorpgs.

Utility is a classification of spells or abilities primarily used not for combat but for interacting with the world.

For instance, slow fall, movement speed, conjuring food and beverage, sneak or invisible, teleports, warps.

Those in the mmorpg setting is generally what is referred to as utility.

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Originally Posted by Altena

for you:

u·til·i·ty   [yoo-til-i-tee] A noun, plural u·til·i·ties, adjective
noun
1. the state or quality of being useful; usefulness: This chemical has no utility as an agricultural fertilizer.

So yes, I do know what utility means. i.e.. Impact / Old does not seem very useful.

When you explain teleport in that sense, it seems to have more UTILITY. (woops I used that word again).

And yes, you pretty much could do that with everything, but "time/space" has a fairly narrow skill set, and can be easily reallocated with only a couple of spells shuffled to BLM/WHM.

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BLM/WHM had most of these spell in FF 1 if anything lol.

Are we seriously going back to the "traditional jobs" argument? We'd might as well stick with only the original six from Final Fantasy and damn everything else. Let's get rid of chocobos too while we're at it. Guys named Cid? Nope. Get the fuck out of here with that nonsense!

The job system that everyone usually heralds as the greatest incarnation, and what most people are usually referring to(unless they're archaic old men who should be in a coffin by now) is the Final Fantasy V job system, which in addition to Time Mage, also includes plenty of other jobs that could easily fit the framework of 2.0 if the developers wish it. And are we really going to reduce a job's chances at being introduced based on how many Final Fantasy entries it's been in? Dancer has been in less games and it was brought into FFXI much to the appreciation of a lot of players. Corsair? Where the hell was that before FFXI? Puppetmaster? Come on, people. Where are you getting this nonsense that Time Mage, or any other job for that matter, couldn't be introduced into FFXIV to great effect?

I'm not seeing a particularly convincing argument from people opposed to this.

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Originally Posted by Endigiont

No see you don't know what utility means in mmorpgs.

Utility is a classification of spells or abilities primarily used not for combat but for interacting with the world.

For instance, slow fall, movement speed, conjuring food and beverage, sneak or invisible, teleports, warps.

Those in the mmorpg setting is generally what is referred to as utility.

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Sorry not all of us live in a magical land of ponies where we dance around and paint rainbows. We use english definitions of words..

I do understand what you are saying though, but attempting to demeanour my point based on "failure to know definitions of words" doesn't really work when my use of the word is actually correct in the english dictionary.

I do understand what you are saying though.. Just replace my use of "utility" with "usefulness" and you will understand my point.


Trolling aside, (as yeah I have probably been guilty of it in here) It is not that I don't want this particular job to ever get released, nor do I care overly if they do it, as I have faith in the dev team and their ability to think outside the box/implement stuff and make it work~ however I would prefer to see the focus on new classes be on jobs with a more iconic final fantasy feel. Sorry to say but when I think of Final Fantasy I think of a guy with a cool sword/katana/two-handed weapon (WAR, PLD, THF), a girl in a white and red cape (WHM/RDM), a knight with cool armour and a big weapon (DRK, DRG, SAM), big celestial avatars (SMN), and chocobo's. The *only* place I really fit "time mages" into that is a sorcerer/ess type of character. Black/dark cloak (like Ultimicia/Edel).

If we were to look at FF lore, I would prefer AF based on that sorceress kind of look.

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

etc etc

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True enough, I will admit that it is a pretty weak argument, but my major point is I would rather the FF lore to be built up based on the more popular/well known jobs before the less known (time mage as an example). As I said, by all means if they do it, and they do it well - good on them. I welcome it. One of the biggest complaint when 1.0 was released was that the game didn't feel like "Final Fantasy", and I feel the job selection had a lot to do with that.

As for Corsair - the "pirate" job that was portrayed in the XI lore isn't as common no, however the musketeer / single handed gun job was. I say "Corsair" in previous posts because people know what I am talking about.. however a couple of examples are Vincent and Irvine. The point is when someone asks you about Final Fantasy, those characters are in the list of what you remember. Of course people will disagree as that is the nature of these forums, however a lot of people that are sold on the Final Fantasy title & lore have FF7-13 in their mind.

To risk opening myself up to more rage bashing, the musketeer type of job was more memorable to a lot of people then the Time Mage, which appeared in hmm FF5, FF9 and what was the other one? See I don't even remember where else they appeared.. While the spells may be heavily weighted on FF lore, the job isn't an iconic figure, like many others that are not yet in the game.

I am surprised no one has mentioned Demi as a spell by the way... That definitely would be a time mage based spell wouldn't it?

Characters with guns aren't musketeers fyi.

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Originally Posted by Altena

True enough, I will admit that it is a pretty weak argument, but my major point is I would rather the FF lore to be built up based on the more popular/well known jobs before the less known (time mage as an example). As I said, by all means if they do it, and they do it well - good on them. I welcome it. One of the biggest complaint when 1.0 was released was that the game didn't feel like "Final Fantasy", and I feel the job selection had a lot to do with that.

As for Corsair - the "pirate" job that was portrayed in the XI lore isn't as common no, however the musketeer / single handed gun job was. I say "Corsair" in previous posts because people know what I am talking about.. however a couple of examples are Vincent and Irvine. The point is when someone asks you about Final Fantasy, those characters are in the list of what you remember. Of course people will disagree as that is the nature of these forums, however a lot of people that are sold on the Final Fantasy title & lore have FF7-13 in their mind.

To risk opening myself up to more rage bashing, the musketeer type of job was more memorable to a lot of people then the Time Mage, which appeared in hmm FF5, FF9 and what was the other one? See I don't even remember where else they appeared.. While the spells may be heavily weighted on FF lore, the job isn't an iconic figure, like many others that are not yet in the game.

I am surprised no one has mentioned Demi as a spell by the way... That definitely would be a time mage based spell wouldn't it?

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Personally I support having classic jobs first than slowly add other jobs such as Time Mage based on the story that involved with it whether it's expansion or whatever.

I think Time Mage would definitely play an interesting role should an expansion with content required strategically used certain spells as if you are trying to solve a puzzle on a environment or boss fight or quest.
In party wise, Time Mage will definitely be intriguing because of the spells it possessed. Although Red Mage already has at least half the spells Time Mage has, white mage and black mage also share some of the spells since it's "Light" spells and "Dark" spells.

In the end it might be hard to implement Time Mage because it will then have to spread out the spells between WHM, BLM and RDM (should rdm exist after 2.0 ARR).

Then Time Mage won't have much spells left in their arsenal unless SE go ahead makes it exclusives to Time Mage.

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Originally Posted by Endigiont

Characters with guns aren't musketeers fyi.

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Ok then, they are? Characters with guns? Hardly seems like a class to me. I will pull out the dictionary again.. Just for you~

mus·ket·eer   [muhs-ki-teer] A
noun
a soldier armed with a musket.

What's a musket you ask?

mus·ket   [muhs-kit] A
noun
1. a heavy, large-caliber smoothbore gun for infantry soldiers, introduced in the 16th century: the predecessor of the modern rifle.


Sure, real-world descriptions of classes aren't necessarily the grounds for classes in a game, however what is your perception of a Musketeer?

*edit* Not to mention that the musketeer guild in 1.0 is filled with pirates with guns.

I want Time Mage so much! T_T


*support*

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Originally Posted by Totorixiii

Personally I support having classic jobs first than slowly add other jobs such as Time Mage based on the story that involved with it whether it's expansion or whatever.

I think Time Mage would definitely play an interesting role should an expansion with content required strategically used certain spells as if you are trying to solve a puzzle on a environment or boss fight or quest.
In party wise, Time Mage will definitely be intriguing because of the spells it possessed. Although Red Mage already has at least half the spells Time Mage has, white mage and black mage also share some of the spells since it's "Light" spells and "Dark" spells.

In the end it might be hard to implement Time Mage because it will then have to spread out the spells between WHM, BLM and RDM (should rdm exist after 2.0 ARR).

Then Time Mage won't have much spells left in their arsenal unless SE go ahead makes it exclusives to Time Mage.

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I want to add more to Time Mage.


It be great if SE can re-invent or update Time Mage so there are new spells exclusives to Time Mage be it to bend time or space or even non-elemental spells.

Heck it be funny if Yoshi said, okay let's make a spells that drops a gigantic Clock on top of a mob's head and inflict it with Slow/ga.


There's alot of potential for Time Mage for group party wise and storyline.

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Originally Posted by Firon

So you are saying bosses should be immune to the spells that would define that job? Also a lot of people don't consider FF tactics apart of the mains franchise/ they don't know or don't care about them all together. That is the reason why that person said 2-3 games out of the 13.

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I'm saying bosses should be immune to spells that are going to be horribly unbalanced in boss fights like Death, Doom, X-Zone, Teleport, Frog and nearly every other spell most bosses are immune to for this reason.

Also, as far as the Tactics comment....lol

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Originally Posted by Alerith

I'm saying bosses should be immune to spells that are going to be horribly unbalanced in boss fights like Death, Doom, X-Zone, Teleport, Frog and nearly every other spell most bosses are immune to for this reason.

Also, as far as the Tactics comment....lol

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You can lol all you want @ the tactics comment most FF fans don't know of it or never bother to play it.

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Originally Posted by Firon

You can lol all you want @ the tactics comment most FF fans don't know of it or never bother to play it.

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I'm from the UK

Tactics never came out over here

All of my friends and every FF fan I've ever known irl has heard of and played Tactics.

There are people who think of FF as anything past FFVII, and there are people who think those are crap. There are people who worship the ground Hironobu Sakaguchi walks on and there are those that are glad SE got rid of him. There are those that think Tactics doesn't count as an entry in the series, and there are sane, rational people.

Arguing about what makes Final Fantasy "Final Fantasy" is a tired and pointless argument precisely because of the previous, so trying to dictate what is "traditional", and therefore what should make it in the game for that specific reason is a farce. A more grievous offense is speaking for an entire group of people as some kind of authority. The very fact that there are people who would love to see that job(and Geomancer, Beastmaster, Sorcerer, and even Mime) should be enough evidence that there's a demand for it, and that you can't or won't see that is your own special brand of myopia.

iirc the most popular choice in the poll was a completely unique job, that hasn't been in FFs before.

I think tradition is great. It's a great foundry to build on, but basing all choices on tradition alone isn't what people want.

Adding a job that exists purely for support roles is counter-productive and kills class balance.

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Originally Posted by Altena

I didn't vote, and I am sure many others didn't.. So this is basing it on a sample size of hmmm a few hundred out of thousands? Also note the word presumably in my original post (stating that I am assuming or "probably" without evidence to prove it, ie guessing/expecting), therefore no evidence is required.

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If this is the case then you guys have no baring on what should or shouldn't come out. The majority that did votes are the ones that cont so to bad.

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Originally Posted by TomCarroll

Adding a job that exists purely for support roles is counter-productive and kills class balance.

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Whitemage is a support, so is Bard in XI, and they are very popular jobs, also it should be noted that enfeebles, crowd control and some nukes doesn't make it just support.

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Originally Posted by Endigiont

Whitemage is a support, so is Bard in XI, and they are very popular jobs, also it should be noted that enfeebles, crowd control and some nukes doesn't make it just support.

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Correct.

But XI was notorious for its class imbalance.

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Originally Posted by TomCarroll

Adding a job that exists purely for support roles is counter-productive and kills class balance.

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According to this logic, adding Red Mage to XI was "counter-productive" (lol).
Kills class balance...? Explain exactly how...

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

Time Mage > Red Mage.

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Quoted for Truth.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

iirc the most popular choice in the poll was a completely unique job, that hasn't been in FFs before.

I think tradition is great. It's a great foundry to build on, but basing all choices on tradition alone isn't what people want.

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I totally agree with this. *shakes hand* well played.

It is not like I dislike the idea entirely, my main point was that according to FF lore, the aforementioned job was not very well known, not very iconic, and realistically isn't going to get those FF fans attention off the bat, like a DRK THF NIN RDM would. My 2nd point was I fail to see much utility in the 1.0 version of the game, and although I am speculating, I believe it to be an informed speculation at making this call.

I am all for originality, and I am all for introducing new classes and jobs into the FF lore (not that Time mage is "new" in the lore, but blah... I understand what I am saying in my own head) because realistically it grew from FF1 but it isn't based solely off FF1. I just believe that to improve that "FF feel" to the game, which a lot of people stated at the beginning of 1.0, and probably still state it now - the game still lacks a bit of that "FF" vibe. Is it such a negative thing that I would rather the focus to be based off the iconic FF jobs that people remember, over the more subtle jobs in the lore?

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Originally Posted by KoujiGeki

If this is the case then you guys have no baring on what should or shouldn't come out. The majority that did votes are the ones that cont so to bad.

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So a community made poll should be gospel?

I didn't vote because I enjoy playing a large array of classes/jobs. So because I choose not to pick one definitive job that I will focus on once released, my voice is suddenly excluded? Wishing to play multiple jobs does by no means imply that I do not want to see more classes getting released, it simply means that I would like to see multiple, solid, enjoyable classes released.

What am I looking forward to seeing? THF and NIN will be interesting. Nice to finally get some dual wield classes hopefully. I will be interested how they do SAM as well, as I get the feeling that it will be nothing like XI. As for mages, the classes in that category I am looking forward to is ACN/SMN & BLU. I have always been a fan of summons/avatars/guardians/etc and how Yoshi plans to do it sounds interesting. I am also looking forward to seeing how the BLU skill set works, and how the dev team execute it because I believe that it will be a tricky one to balance (Similar to time mage). I also really hope they nail RDM and make it more of the melee/elemental mage that is was popular before XI. Giving them en-spells and spikes, with a nice arsenal of abilities and weapon skills. I hope it doesn't turn into the Time Mage that it is in XI.

So this will be my last post I will make in here because none of you will change my opinion, and I will change no one else's, so this argument/discussion is pointless. I am looking forward to what the devs come up with on the new jobs front, and look forward to playing whatever they throw at us - regardless how "standard" or "unique" it is. Hopefully you guys will get your way and they will release it in due time, I just hope it isn't the next big one to take the skies after SMN, and they look at the supportive roles such as THF NIN COR.

/goodbye.

Well I have to say I think Time Mage is alot more ingratiated into the vibe of what is "Final Fantasy" than you think it is, not to say I'm a bigger Final Fantasy fan than you, but I've played and beaten almost every game except for 8PS1 and 3DS. I just think we need more jobs that will excite people to play, I know everyone is tired of the Knight Cleric Rogue Wizard classes, and I think classes that are unique and have a Final Fantasy vibe will get people to play. The only other MMO that I can think of that has anything like a Time Mage is Wakfu which has Xelor's Sandglass.

http://wakfu.wikia.com/wiki/Xelor


Also Time Mage could easily fit into the FFXIV lore, I mean we just time traveled even...



Also....

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I also really hope they nail RDM and make it more of the melee/elemental mage that is was popular before XI. Giving them en-spells and spikes, with a nice arsenal of abilities and weapon skills. I hope it doesn't turn into the Time Mage that it is in XI.

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Have you played Red Mage? Just because in a party gaining EXP it is a refresh whore doesn't mean that's all it does, you might not know but RDM is very good at soloing. I also fully anticipate the Dev team will make it so one of the core resources of Red Mage will force it to melee and do decent damage as well as dishing out a cure once in awhile and maybe a random nuke.


Also I'd like to randomly put out something about RDM in the first Final Fantasy which is kinda pointless. RDM doesn't have any unique spells the only difference is that it has a sword, and if you recall WHM hammer is pretty strong in FF1 making Redmage almost a useless class as WHM and BLM have access to stronger spells and can do them better.