It shouldnt be hard to make it permanent, Dark Age of Camelot did it and it's an older game...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rukkirii
Dev-Question: Signed Items (Crafted items)
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10-13-2012, 07:05 PMKhazar
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10-13-2012, 07:07 PMSoulfireI'd like to see the name stay even if sold through a retainer. It'd be cool to check people and see them wearing something you made.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rukkirii
There could also end up being brand wars. :p
My Fernehalwes tunic is so much better than your Bayo--Beyblade--Baying tunic, or whatever it is! What a forgettable brand name! So...generic. -
10-14-2012, 02:45 AMLuhyHow about give us an NPC in the Grand Company Hall that makes signatures permanent when traded/sold? It could be that the NPC let's us stitch the signature with the same thread as used in the seam or whatnot that makes it permanent, otherwise, the signature is taken out when traded/sold.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rukkirii
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10-14-2012, 08:24 AMPSxpert2011+1 (if I could +2 it, I would!) ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiago
I don't think it should disappear, if it's a HQ item, of course not. While we're at it, like design our own logos/crest and stamp it on the crafted item. FTW! ^^ bQuote:
Originally Posted by Rukkirii
LIKE this idea and pass it down! ^o^
Raising the bar and setting the standard for all of Eorzea, "let's GO!" -
10-14-2012, 08:27 AMFiron
I don't want the name to stick even after it is sold on the markets i don't want ppl names who i don't know or who i don't want to know name all over my gear.
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10-14-2012, 10:59 AMGinTamaPlease let the name stay even if you sell it. Would love it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rukkirii
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10-14-2012, 11:03 AMWarlock
F@#k no i never wore signed gear in FF11 that makes gear worthless to me specially the +1 stuff i don't want to wear ppl's names i don't know all over me
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10-14-2012, 11:12 AMReika
Why am I not suprised. . . .
+1 to signed gear and not erasing when sold from wards. -
10-14-2012, 12:41 PMFironThey are prob not doing it for many reason, i don't want people with retarded names all over my gear. Like on sarge its someone char named plugged yass why the hell would i want that name on my gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reika
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10-14-2012, 12:47 PMReika
Dont buy it. Craft it yourself and you wont have to worry about it.
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10-14-2012, 01:50 PMWarlockthe same could be said for you...make a small club of the signed gear in-game and keep it to yourselvesQuote:
Originally Posted by Reika
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10-14-2012, 03:59 PMShougun
There should be a way to voluntary remove names. . but not involuntary like when selling stuff or trading.
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10-14-2012, 05:58 PMSine
I'm assuming the answer is no, and maybe it was addressed earlier in the thread, but what about items created before 2.0? Some of my melds are screaming for a signature.
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10-14-2012, 06:31 PMFelis
I say keep the signature and give the buyers, who don't like the names, an item to delete the names after they bought it. Something like an eraser.
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10-14-2012, 07:14 PMValmonteno placing your name on the item should be the voluntary part. there should be no removal of the name what so ever, that would defeat the whole purpose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shougun
A blacksmith isn't going to waste his time signing every last common foot soldier's blade, a blacksmith will however sign items that mark a Milestone in design or rarity. -
10-14-2012, 07:24 PMShougunQuote:
Originally Posted by Valmonte
If we have to force others to see our work then:
All gatherers should be able to put their names on gathered items, and crafters have to include their name into the crafted item.
Any loot drops should be named as well. Dont want anyone to get confused on who got the shield first.
I am extremely aganist a forced vanity system, specially one that I cant ignore (and is biased to a particular set of classes - when all classes have their own work cut out for them). Go be vain somewhere else >.> (general statement, not directed exactly at the quote) -
10-14-2012, 11:52 PMAntonyBThats awesome news, was nothing better than popping that HQ and having your name on it! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Rukkirii
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10-15-2012, 12:03 AMValmonteCant ignore? its Not like its Going to be highlighted in neon yellow and say i was created by "name" every time you pull it out. its going to be a little corner in the items stats page with a name you'll probably never even notice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shougun
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10-15-2012, 04:46 AMShougunEither way, lets not be biased in favor. If you want to reward crafters for their work lets be vain for everyone and make everything auto signed on item creation (and unremoveable).Quote:
Originally Posted by Valmonte
There are only a very very select few items that crafters make that are any comparative challenge - and most people dont have those anyways lol.
Gatherering / dungeon loots take more work then most crafting items.
I dont like the above system I described either, but eh if we must have vanity.... -
10-15-2012, 10:07 AMAshel
I look forward to having named equipment. I really liked this in FFXI. :)
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10-15-2012, 01:09 PMKyraNow this I really like :) awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rukkirii
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10-15-2012, 02:11 PMReikaOh man, I think people are expecting something totally noticable, like..... idk what they are expecting. Thats all signatures ever are in MMO's, unless they devise some way to let us lazer etch our names into the blades of the weapon to where you can never avoid looking at it or something lol (I actually want to be able to do that for some things)Quote:
Originally Posted by Valmonte
Somewhere away from all the important item info there will be "crafted by so-and-so" thats all.... -
10-15-2012, 03:49 PMSoulfireI'm against removal of names.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shougun
At most, a configuration option that hides names on all gear client-side only. That's it. Names should always stick. If I made something amazing and let someone borrow it, I wouldn't want them wiping my name off of it, purposefully or accidentally. -
10-15-2012, 03:53 PMShougunIf this is all about vanity then I want to push everything getting named, loot items from dungeons and gathered items as well..Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulfire
Because for the most part crafting is extremely easy. Just the +1's of -some- items are actually crazy.
However as a personal feeling, I think being able to hide names would work for me, I can play like if I cant see it then It doesnt exist ^_^. As I wouldnt care if my name was on something I dont need to see it - but it would bother me someone is trying to brand me.
(Im the person that refuses to wear branded clothings (or buys it and removes the brand lol)). -
10-16-2012, 03:41 AMUrthdigger
For the folks asking for signatures to be added to gathered items and dungeon drops... that's kinda ridiculous, and I feel a bit of a slippery slope argument in a way.
The difference between crafted items and gathered items is that gathered items are typically expected to be used up. Whether you NPC it, turn it in for seals, eat it, or use it in a synth, gathered items are expected to be used up, not shown off. Hell, unless you put it in your bazaar, nobody could even see the name on them anyway.
The difference between crafted items and dungeon drops is that the dungeon drops people actually care about are U/U anyway for the most part, save a few items here and there. Getting your darklight pieces signed is a tad redundant. Being able to say "Yeah, I actually farmed this Chiran Zabran's Tempest instead of buying it" might be nice, but making a system to do that might be more complicated than it may be worth.
In addition, a lot of these arguments seem to be assuming that all three types of classes are equal, and they really aren't. Battle classes are inherently important to the game, they're how you do all the quests and other fun stuff, so it's not like incentive is needed there.
Gathering classes have an inherent incentive in the form of loot: Playing it is basically pure profit no matter what you do, and unlike battle classes you actually get some say as far as what loot you get.
Crafting classes... let's face it, while they do have methods of making money at the moment, it's very subject to the whims of the market. When selling loot or materia, it may suck when someone undercuts you and you have to sell for less than usual, but crafting has that initial investment that means you may very well wind up selling the item for less than it cost you to make it, especially when you're leveling and have to worry about xp instead of making whatever's in at the moment. The other class types, you can hop on and usually come out ahead across the board, unless you spent an entire night wiping to fights. Crafting can have you log on, actually finish all your synths, and still come out worse than you started, and that's painful. Leveling a craft is not a necessary part of the game, and really there's not a whole lot of incentive to do so. Signatures are a simple vanity addition, but they do add a few incentives to crafting. Pride in wearing a set of gear you made yourself. Entrepeneurship, in trying to build a name for yourself and charging a markup for name-brand equipment. Just simple amusement. At the very least, adding this feature to crafting sure doesn't hurt anyone. -
10-16-2012, 03:53 AMShougunCrafters make more money then gathers unless you arent paying attention to the market. Also crafters do require a higher start up cost (but they return on their profit). Gatherers take WAY more time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Urthdigger
It is a little bit of a slippery slope I agree (I admited I dont like what I said, but I feel it is a similar path).
I dont give a crap who made my SB gear and I dont event want to see them claim effort on it because its not something that should be so.
I think some of the really tough gears being signed - having respect for that person I can deal with. But really get your name off my hempen trousers its not that big of a deal. And melded gear doesnt mean it was created by the melder so those are unrelateable (not directed at quote, just some people saying they want to honor their awesome melded gear).
While yes crafters do have some challenge I don't think "forcing" people to appreciate the person is necessary. As the other classes also have challenge. (Also think U/U gear being signed would be stupid, but there are hard to get gears dropped in dungeons that are also not U/U).
I like appreciating people by my choice not by force - hence being able to remove names (doesnt mean I will always do it, but also means I can specially for gear I may have bought off the MW by zfjefajfje the lightning brand botter). -
10-16-2012, 04:42 AMTiago
Yeah i kinda liked it more on FFXI, Examples below:
Signed:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Z21bIaT0Bx...0/ffxi_2010.05
Normal:
http://i26.tinypic.com/166gpwk.jpg
So it made signed items not being everywhere, I think only under certain circumstances we should sign them items and not in every craft. To make signed items we should prob buy a rly cheap item, so ppl who want to sign all their items, they can and who dont, they dont and only do when they actually want. -
10-16-2012, 04:48 AMUrthdiggerQuote:
Originally Posted by Shougun
This did make me think of a side benefit: It makes it easier to choose NOT to buy from certain individuals, assuming you can see the signatures when buying from the wards. -
10-16-2012, 04:53 AMShougunlol you mean people wont buy from bots because of their stupid ass names? :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Urthdigger
I guess (taking money from RMT/Botters always makes me happy lol), but people will also buy from "cooler" sounding names then others. So if you like your name but the majority doesnt you are teh screwed out of more money then usual. Brand names are really important.
Signing should be possible but it should be something easily applied and easily removed. Also probably shouldn't be visible when buying the item, otherwise there WILL be item signed bias (if all other factors are equal). -
10-16-2012, 05:22 AMPSxpert2011
I'm starting see it's not a good idea to sell items and gear through a marketing system [sighed]. If it were to be traded for gill then the signature would obviously stay. I really don't want someone elses name on my gear unless I'm gettign paid to promote his work.
Sure, I'll promote your awesome/ mended gear, give me discount, thank you!
...(Hehe, not a bad idea) >:D -
10-16-2012, 02:49 PMReinheart
If gear from market has names on them we can tell which person undercut everyone and we'll have a nice time at PvP area if he/she dare to enter :D
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10-16-2012, 03:22 PMShougunUnless someone bought the item and resold it XD...Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinheart
But I have to admit I've felt like camping some peoples retainers for undercutting by 70% and then everyone else follows suit for a few days. -
10-16-2012, 03:48 PMDubstepNinjaI am guessing I wont be selling much stuff then <.<Quote:
Originally Posted by Shougun
Dont worry If they let me ,I will change my name to "Post-IronicBeardcore Ninja" -
10-18-2012, 12:32 AMSoulfire
Okay, I thought of an alternative.
When looking at crafted gear in the market you will see the signatures. Selecting a signed item will give you this in the purchase prompt under the item name and price:
If people opt to remove the signature the tax on the seller will be reduced by an additional one percent as compensation. No bonus nor penalty will be incurred on the buyer. It's win-win, or at least somewhat close.Quote:
This item has been signed by
First Last
[ ] Remove signature(Accept) (Return)
I still prefer names being irremovable. -
10-18-2012, 12:40 AMMjollnir
How about signatures only appearing on crafted +1 items?
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10-18-2012, 02:45 AMShougunThere will still be market bias. If LordLavaLamp is selling a +1 for the same price Bob is, bob will probably have to undercut his items just to sell out over LordLavaLamp. Then there will also have items selling unsigned differently then signed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mjollnir
Signing items permanently has effect greater then just the ego of the crafters. I think Soulfire suggestion is in a better direction. You can remove it at buy from the MW.
Perhaps on trades you -can't- remove it and if crafters are dying to keep their name on an item (no idea why you would care so hard) then they can trade it. Like someone's example was giving their friend an item, you dont give your friend items through the MW (unless you are crazy).
But for market bias and the seemingly invisible tendrils of change that would shoot out I really recommend no permanent names on MW sold items - perhaps don't even show the name until in confirmation window of buying/removing signature just to really prevent market bias. (Retainers also have a little bias, I know some of my friends refuse to buy from certain retainers - but the names of retainers are not stuck to the item so its much easier to ignore on a general average). -
10-18-2012, 09:39 AMUrthdigger
I honestly don't think market-bias would be a bad thing. For the vast majority of players, they're not going to care about the signature on their gear. People have to check you in order to see them, and it's such a minor little thing. That said, this DOES mean that someone can attempt to use whatever fame they've acquired in game to market their goods, and this is arguably a good thing. It adds a new social dynamic to selling your products. Also, on the flipside it gives players an incentive to not buy from players who are infamous, which means another little reason not to be a dick.
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10-18-2012, 09:44 AMShougunMeh - I dont play games for their intricate market. Not quite an exciting idea to me (i like to get in and out). I'd rather keep it simple and let me sell when I want without worrying that MrTaruPopper isnt going to out sell me unless I undercut his shit specifically.Quote:
Originally Posted by Urthdigger
I can see the idea you are going for - stops asshats and known botters/RMT.
But I think it would be more of annoyance as people seldom accurately describe an ass, botter, or rmt. "He fished for an hour - must be a botter" -_-, "They didnt give me the item I wanted in Raid - LS boycott this guys product", "They dont speak english and play a lot - must be RMT". -
10-18-2012, 12:19 PMUrthdiggerPart of the reason a system like this works is because you're actually in the majority. Most of the people feel the way you do, and would be content to simply buy whatever's cheapest. For the most part, a system like this wouldn't alter your ability to buy/sell goods any more than how people sometimes buy from their friends instead of the wards. In either case, it's a small market who cares where their goods come from, but an enterprising marketer could use this to their advantage to sell at a mark up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shougun
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10-18-2012, 01:12 PMShougunI still dont think it would be beneficial over all - but having never tried it I can't definitively say how players would react (only can imagine).Quote:
Originally Posted by Urthdigger
Perhaps if they let us fiddle with different systems in alpha/beta. Until I can test it I'll have to stay biased against (as my gut says it wont be fun to watch someone sell better just because they "branded" better).
While branding is a real life reality I dont want to deal with that kind of depth when it comes to marketing in game lol. A feature one too many if you will, though I know some people love playing marketing.. Perhaps I'm the minority.