Auto Attack wins!

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Originally Posted by Nuru

I am going to take a wild guess and say that they are going to make this system pretty unique. :D

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I hope so, would be nice to play with. :D

The best thing here is that it looks like there are some seriously big changes coming our way. Happy with the auto-attack, happier with seeing they are really working hard to get us some big changes with big impacts.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

I'm wondering how auto attack will work with archer and multishot....

This isn't a feature I've been clamoring for, but if they think that it'll work best with the new battle system, then ok, I guess... We'll see.

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This is for every system, no matter if they had kept basic attacks manual, or as they are going to, switch them to auto attack.

The combat system is going to change. It will not be the same system that is in the game currently. Attacks will not work exactly the same way, though they may have similiar names and ideas in use (Multishot - you shoot many arrows, can that not be a one action that costs X amount of TP/Energy/Tacos to use?). Getting caught up in worrying how X-Attack will be affected is pointless when the very system itself is being changed.

This is for everything currently in the game. Did you see the results of that first Players Poll, where 85.2% of folks voted Yes to "changes to FINAL FANTASY XIV that would drastically alter the rules already set in Eorzea" as well as a 72.4% vote whos biggest expectation for the new team was "An overhaul to fundamental gameplay aspects".

A link to it for anybody who may have missed it back in January:

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...ed538a52d0fa40

The game we are currently playing is - whether you enjoy it or not, and I do personally enjoy it - a placeholder that is being changed as we play. I don't expect to recognise this game come the end of the year, minus the graphics and possibly some general rules. Will I still play? Depends if I like the game or not! Once you are able to accept that, then a lot of the topics that people go crazy about die a death, as you realise they are all pieces of a bigger puzzle, and until we see the end result, we can't really say much. This auto-attack debate was one of them, it is clear from the announcement that it was auto-attack no matter what was said, and has probably having been worked on for a while now - it is one of their first big tasks, as without a good combat system, killing stuff isn't fun, and MMOs have a huge death toll.

Honestly, I think they would have taken the servers down (possibly should have) but they have kept them up as effectively a big testing ground and for those that have friends and fun, even if not as much as they might do in the future. They are working towards "Final Fantasy XIV - Take 2" and we need to give them the time to do that. When you see them release a solid date for the Playstation 3, you can take that as the release date for 'real'.

I don't mean to sound like I'm Lording it over folk, but the pettiness (not you that I quoted, but forums in general) over what are minor subjects when the entire game is basically going to be overhauled is somewhat frustrating. This includes troll topics like BelgianRofls "6 month review" (I mainly dislike that topic for the reasons I state above...you know damn well the game is changing, but it takes time) as well as "Oh no, we are bleeding players". Damn right we are, but honestly I doubt Square Enix truly care - why would they try and bring folk back to the game when they are changing it and acknowledged that it isn't to their standard.

While gamers tend to be somewhat stupid ("Oh no, that MMO sucked at launch, now I wont ever play it...what? MMOs change drastically, even the 'best'") they will no doubt have a campaign to bring players back - when they think it is ready - who still wont have paid more than the box price, so that they can finally, truly, get their 30 days free with the box.

I speak as a long time gamer, played many MMOs and a couple of Final Fantasy games (Only completed Final Fantasy XIII though!), and have absolutely no care for the fact that it is Square Enix involved - minus that they have been able to somewhat absorb the issue and try to address it.

Time is what we have to give them, and it may feel like you've already done so, but again as I said, until they announce the Playstation 3 release and a "Welcome back (or perhaps, please come back) campaign" then you can easily take a break from the game without feeling like you are missing anything - even I, a massive fan of the game am considering doing so rather than bump into things haphazardly as they are put in, and join in when things truly get going.

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Originally Posted by Lamhirh

Anriael it avctually makes difference. Difference in my involvement. actually pressing the hey matters. But it will loose you .12312% of damage per minute to manually press the key. And that will cause serious shrinkage is certain area. Sad news for most of people i know. Autoatack -> sadface

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It's always a good idea to keep things personal. the "most people i know" argument never held much validity.
The fact that the attack key is always the same key pretty much makes the involvement zero. Now, I could have admitted the "manual" approach if there was a combo system like in AOC, but just adding a single key press in the middle of the actual tactics isn't really relevant.

Although auto-attack is somewhat of a cop-out, it at least gives them a few extra nobs to tweak in order to make combat/classes seem a little more interesting and unique (but by no means innovative).

Awesome news, curious to see which way it goes, auto attack like FF11 or auto attack like WoW ?

This is good.

Finally, some positive changes... lol

I wasn't for AA but as long as it's not as slow as XI and SE believes it goes well with their plans then i'm cool with it.

I can type and fight at the same time. Or i will be able to once the new system is in place. Win Win.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

It's always a good idea to keep things personal. the "most people i know" argument never held much validity.
The fact that the attack key is always the same key pretty much makes the involvement zero. Now, I could have admitted the "manual" approach if there was a combo system like in AOC, but just adding a single key press in the middle of the actual tactics isn't really relevant.

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It is personal. it is that way, as people tent to gather around people who think/feel same way. So you see most people i know"are the people i play the game with ^^. Anyway, i like thing called immersion in my Roleplaying games. I am one of the cursed crowd, and for me, more important is to do something personally, than watch it doing it for me. actually there was planing in the game, but was poorly balanced. basic attac/skills usage should be keep in check by stamina usage, and SE never really got a hold of how to work that idea. The got basic, but couldnt find spirit of it. i like doing weird builds, and trying to find the way to go through the game with them, make they usefull. but as i said i am sandbox loving wacko that never grew off playing with LEGO <_<

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Originally Posted by BelgianRofl

/em pours himself a glass of fine brandy, lights a cigar, and kicks his feet up onto his desk.

/em doesn't care that he's at work.

You're welcome, everybody!!! :) :)

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Didn't know you worked for SE. Otherwise you didn't do a damn thing.

On topic though, I didn't think manual attack was the worst thing in the world. But on the same coin i'm ok with AA. So long as we're going to get some defined battle roles i'm ok with either way they take it.

Well I'm glad I played the game when it was fun.

Can't say it yet, but I've got the feeling I'm gonna quit after the battle system patch >.>
Have fun in you new FFXI-2/WoW-Clone/Whatever.

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Originally Posted by Alcide

Well I'm glad I played the game when it was fun.

Can't say it yet, but I've got the feeling I'm gonna quit after the battle system patch >.>
Have fun in you new FFXI-2/WoW-Clone/Whatever.

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At least give it a shot first. We still don't know all the details, it could turn out to be good.

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Originally Posted by Sojiro

Didn't know you worked for SE. Otherwise you didn't do a damn thing.

On topic though, I didn't think manual attack was the worst thing in the world. But on the same coin i'm ok with AA. So long as we're going to get some defined battle roles i'm ok with either way they take it.

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I know I, along with others championed the support for AA. This feels like a campaign win, which I think BelgianRofl feels the same way. We have been playing with this battle system for 6 months, it's time for a change, we supported that change and now we are getting it. Will it be awesome? that remains to be seen, but there is nothing preventing them to alter it again in the future.

+1 to SE!!! Heading in the right direction. Now I can actually UTILIZE an game controller. Good news for PS3 players ^^

Ehh i'll wait till i see it.

I want my guild marks for heavy attacks back though.

>:[

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Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

I know I, along with others championed the support for AA. This feels like a campaign win, which I think BelgianRofl feels the same way. We have been playing with this battle system for 6 months, it's time for a change, we supported that change and now we are getting it. Will it be awesome? that remains to be seen, but there is nothing preventing them to alter it again in the future.

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I supported the idea to implement a toggle for aggro indicators. I'm not claiming that I did a damned thing and want peoples thanks.....

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Originally Posted by Alcide

Well I'm glad I played the game when it was fun.

Can't say it yet, but I've got the feeling I'm gonna quit after the battle system patch >.>
Have fun in you new FFXI-2/WoW-Clone/Whatever.

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/goodbye

/10char

So what's the argument against auto-attack, exactly? Are people worried about lack of involvement during battles? That is not related to having or not having auto-attack at all. There are plenty of MMORPGs which are more involved and spammy than FFXIV yet have auto-attack. The key part: the damage from auto-attack is not as significant as in FFXI, and it's your special abilities that make the difference in battles.

Matsui himself said that you would not be able to win by only letting your character auto-attack, and he actually mentioned that he wanted to avoid FFXI and FFXIV auto-attack comparsions, which makes me think auto-attack is going to be the same as in other MMORPGs: something that doesn't contribute much to your overall damage, but that makes the combat feel more fluid and faster.

In the end, you're probably going to be left with the system you have right now (where your actions do matter) but with more animations.

I'm glad to see this game finally making major changes! Keep that ball rolling SE!!!

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Originally Posted by Nephera

Ehh i'll wait till i see it.

I want my guild marks for heavy attacks back though.

>:[

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in order for SE to fix the game in it's current state everyone is going to hvae to accept their new and improved changes even if it will have the consequence of losing possible accomplishments/progress. I am all for any new changes that SE decides to dish out. If all of you want to support this game then we all have to accept and live with what might come forth.

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Originally Posted by Sojiro

At least give it a shot first. We still don't know all the details, try it before claiming it fails and quit >.>

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The lack of AA was the core of the game, it gave tactics to solo fights, to party fights, to BR, to stamina control, to TP control EVERYTHING.

The point is not that the new battle system can be good, the point is that I loved it before and everything is gonna get scrapped while it could be improved. And I can tell you I'm not the only one thinking this way, just take a look at the forums... what's the highest rank of those against AA? and of those in favor?

And this because come people thought that trying out something new was too difficult, while whining is much easier...

@solracht how autoattack will make gamaplay feel more active?

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Originally Posted by solracht

So what's the argument against auto-attack, exactly? Are people worried about lack of involvement during battles? That is not related to having or not having auto-attack at all. There are plenty of MMORPGs which are more involved and spammy than FFXIV yet have auto-attack. The key part: the damage from auto-attack is not as significant as in FFXI, and it's your special abilities that make the difference in battles.

Matsui himself said that you would not be able to win by only letting your character auto-attack, and he actually mentioned that he wanted to avoid FFXI and FFXIV auto-attack comparsions, which makes me think auto-attack is going to be the same as in other MMORPGs: something that doesn't contribute much to your overall damage, but that makes the combat feel more fluid and faster.

In the end, you're probably going to be left with the system you have right now (where your actions do matter) but with more animations.

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Well there's no such thing as a non effective auto attack. There's such a thing as stat baseline. It just puts more faith in stats then it is to your finger dexterity.

No way in heck has auto attack ever won battles without user intervention. I'm not sure where they got that idea from. Auto attack has pretty much matured in MMO with it's own features.

If you want to beat down a non challenging trash monster, then that's practically FF14. Almost everything is a trash monster. Not sure how auto attack comes into it.

im jw how auto attack is going to work with archers multishot and trifuricate abilities

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Originally Posted by Alcide

Well I'm glad I played the game when it was fun.

Can't say it yet, but I've got the feeling I'm gonna quit after the battle system patch >.>
Have fun in you new FFXI-2/WoW-Clone/Whatever.

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If this is how you feel before even seeing what all is in the upcoming battle updates and actually see how it is then I guess you do what you do and enjoy yourself wherever you do end up.

I would atleast wait until I hear more, see more, feel more before making a wild assumption about the unknown.

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Originally Posted by Akira

im jw how auto attack is going to work with archers multishot and trifuricate abilities

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Obviously there will be a score of ability changing/axing/adding.

It was a given that after the battle overhaul, no one is going to play the same way.

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Originally Posted by Spuffin

/goodbye

/10char

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Hey smartass, remember when people used to say "you don't like the game? don't play" and they were answering that square enix needed them?

Guess what, it's the same situation.
I'm not the only one pissed off about this, there will be a lot of complaints in the next days and I bet a lot of people that's playng now are gonna quit too.
And now what? we don't count anything? Does SE only need people thinking like you?
Oh sure, we tried hard to understan a system that at the beginning seemed stupid, but after a while turned out great, but listening to those that gave up at the beginning and don't know a crap about what they're saying sounds like a much better idea...

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Originally Posted by Akira

im jw how auto attack is going to work with archers multishot and trifuricate abilities

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I'm sure it's been taken into account. Some people may not like this, but there's a good chance that combat will eventually be drastically different from what it is now.

As far as multishot and trifuricate go, it would be pretty easy to integrate them into the auto attack system without losing any of the gameplay that you enjoy. Button to pause auto attack.. button to resume auto attack.

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Originally Posted by Keith_Dragoon

If this is how you feel before even seeing what all is in the upcoming battle updates and actually see how it is then I guess you do what you do and enjoy yourself wherever you do end up.

I would atleast wait until I hear more, see more, feel more before making a wild assumption about the unknown.

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Uhm, coz you mean that at rank20 you tried the current battle system enough so you can say for sure that it totally sucks and only because of the lack of AA?? No, you and the others gave up and started complaining, can't I do the same now?

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

ok this is Something I like. With ffxi I could be afk and still help my party with just auto attack. Now since you can't win a fight with just auto attack ima be happy. Just keep my ADD arse active or ima get hyper. :3

Now release ffxiv for the ps3 already.

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That's the only reason I'm ok with this change. Since he specifically mentioned that along with AA they would be making it so A) you can't win with just AA and B) they will be making timing of other abilities necessary.

The thing I was worried about was making it a FFXI clone. Hopefully he can follow through on his promise not to here.

Honestly, this sucks.

I've played WoW, I've played LotRO, I've played Aion, though I admit I only tried the FFXI trial (and quit mostly because my sister didn't like it).

In each and every one of these games, autoattack added absolutely nothing to the combat system except occasionally swinging at an enemy I didn't want to. Autoattack adds nothing to the combat system except for forcing it to control the combat pace instead of you. I don't need the game to attack for me, that's what my abilities and spells are for.

I'm certainly not going to drop the game just because of a single-decision by the developers. Hopefully, Tanaka & Co. can make it into a useful component, something the others have failed to do.

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Originally Posted by Alcide

Hey smartass, remember when people used to say "you don't like the game? don't play" and they were answering that square enix needed them?

Guess what, it's the same situation.
I'm not the only one pissed off about this, there will be a lot of complaints in the next days and I bet a lot of people that's playng now are gonna quit too.
And now what? we don't count anything? Does SE only need people thinking like you?
Oh sure, we tried hard to understan a system that at the beginning seemed stupid, but after a while turned out great, but listening to those that gave up at the beginning and don't know a crap about what they're saying sounds like a much better idea...

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if you want change, your opinion doesnt matter
if you dont want change, your opinion doesnt matter
if you like something, too bad it needs to be changed
if you hate it, too bad you get what you get

get used to these comments all over forums

but seriously, auto attack and change to stamina wont mean too much if done right, it doesnt make anything a clone, or more unique

ill reserve judgement for when it all comes in and we see it first hand what they are doing

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Originally Posted by Alcide

The lack of AA was the core of the game, it gave tactics to solo fights, to party fights, to BR, to stamina control, to TP control EVERYTHING.

The point is not that the new battle system can be good, the point is that I loved it before and everything is gonna get scrapped while it could be improved. And I can tell you I'm not the only one thinking this way, just take a look at the forums... what's the highest rank of those against AA? and of those in favor?

And this because come people thought that trying out something new was too difficult, while whining is much easier...

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That is a worry I have. We will lose significant amounts of control in fights (at least mages will). In FFXI, I was ok with AA as a mage, since I had to be in melee range for it to work. I could sleep mobs and take care of crowd control without worrying about accidentally waking stuff up with a melee attack.

But with FFXIV, my AA is ranged. Since I have to have my weapon out to cast spells, it's going to be extremely annoying if AA wakes it up. There had better be a way to turn it off, is all I'm saying.

Additionally, people are going to pay less attention now, so I'll also have to worry about their dumb ***es. And we can't use the facing trick, since FFXIV makes you auto-face the enemy you're attacking... *sigh* I'm less and less thrilled with this as I think about it.

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Originally Posted by Alcide

Uhm, coz you mean that at rank20 you tried the current battle system enough so you can say for sure that it totally sucks and only because of the lack of AA?? No, you and the others gave up and started complaining, can't I do the same now?

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I didn't "give up", in fact I wasn't even for AA. Thanks for making assumptions without any supporting evidence. I am level 20 because I loathe soloing and all the friends that came to XIV either quit or got tons of RL stuff going on.

If you wanna be a snappy d-bag when I was trying to be kind go ahead but know what your talking about first, it helps.

if AA could be toggle-able. than let it be. But i have troubles immaging autoatack as archer or conjurer, and those are main classes i play:?

I don't see any reason why a mage needs to have auto attack in the first place. They don't need to be tied to a TP system.

Hopefully people can start thinking outside of the box a little bit. Otherwise they won't be able to see all of the possibilities for a new combat system.

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Originally Posted by Lamhirh

if AA could be toggle-able. than let it be. But i have troubles immaging autoatack as archer or conjurer, and those are main classes i play:?

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You are trying to imagine auto-attack in the system currently in play, its not going to be the same when they start patching in the battle system overhaul. Hopefully all turn out for the best, I am interested to see how it'll all come together in the end though.

you see, the curent system was outside the box and had possiblities... so people asked for something they already know, so they wont have to learn/think

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Originally Posted by Grit

I don't see any reason why a mage needs to have auto attack in the first place. They don't need to be tied to a TP system.

Hopefully people can start thinking outside of the box a little bit. Otherwise they won't be able to see all of the possibilities for a new combat system.

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Actually, they do. They need some way of damaging mobs if they are out of mp, or are playing tactically to conserve mp in a dungeon or whatever. Before they added mp regen, a significant amount of my damage to mobs came from my attack and TP skill(s).

All I'm saying is that I'm disappointed because they are taking away significant control of battle. I hardly think that hitting the light attack key 3-4 times to build TP was that burdensome. But who knows, they might surprise us and come up with a nice system.

I'm extremely skeptical of that, however. History has proven that the more you listen to the whining from armchair developers on forums, the higher the chance that you screw your game over irrevocably.