This kind of thing has to stop...

Learn Japanese. Problem solved XD

I instantly /blacklist people who spam /shouts in japanese. Makes Ul'dah chatlog much cleaner and easier to monitor. Not like I'm gonna be playing with them anyway.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

Being declined or kicked from parties, not based on our gear, skill or ability to just play the game, but because some people are too lazy to use the auto translate....http://i46.tinypic.com/25z02lk.png

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JP: JP ONLY
EN: CLASS X Y Z ONLY

I don't like either.

its pretty funny how they do JP only parties for such trivial crap as Natalan EXP parties. I mean, that's not really neccesary. I also don't know why english people use autotranslate anymore, since only english people are using it nowadays anyway.

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Originally Posted by bobbygunz

I also don't know why english people use autotranslate amy,pre, since only english people are using it nowadays anyway.

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I suppose auto-translator makes life a bit easier for native speakers of german and french. Me, I just like how clean /shouts look, with those colored brackets and all. Much better than your usual "LF2M DPS BT HM" crap. Blergh.

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Originally Posted by Stanislaw

Until the auto-translate can be used to make it so people can explain something like the Rivenroad (Hard) fight from start to finish and make everyone understand exactly what they need to do, this is going to hold true. Contrary to popular belief, not everyone in the world can speak English.

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Oh whatever, this is a Natalan SB party, not some huge endeavor. NO one needs to talk for those. Contrary to popular belief, even JPs can be jerks and idiots.

It's not always about wanting JP players only, like alot of people have said its about being able to discuss in native language. I had a friend on XI who was JP and spoke insanely good English, but whenever I used autotranslate to him by mistake he would flip at me and tell me to repeat what I said again in English because the translation is aweful and most of the time don't even translate correctly.

Although this should really only be for instances or something, people that are doing it just for something like XP is just being a tad selfish. I met afew JPs like this who wanted JP only people for abyssea PTs and they would just camp ontop of people that was already there.

Having 1 person who doesn't speak JP doesn't inhibit discussion. Usually in SB pickups I'm watching Youtube or listening to music anyway. I'm not there to chat.

My suggestion to the OP, get something to translate Yoroshiku, Arigatoo, Omedetou and Otsukare into JP text and just fake it, unless you can find some sensible people to play with.

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Originally Posted by Trotsky

I instantly /blacklist people who spam /shouts in japanese. Makes Ul'dah chatlog much cleaner and easier to monitor. Not like I'm gonna be playing with them anyway.

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Well things sure have changed. I remember the clash of cultures during the NA release of FFXI. New players were chatting and asking questions in local chat only to be chided by the established players. Basically being informed that we shouldn't be clogging up the local chat or shouting out.

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Originally Posted by bobbygunz

its pretty funny how they do JP only parties for such trivial crap as Natalan EXP parties. I mean, that's not really neccesary. I also don't know why english people use autotranslate anymore, since only english people are using it nowadays anyway.

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JP players usually set a time to end whatever they are about to do, be it party or instance, if they cant stay till that given time they wont join it. There have been many instances where a NA will join a JP shout pt and then leave once they hit 50, or leave if they cant win. Cursing in english and just dropping out. And im thinking in my head.. typical.. no wonder they say JP only.
If it pisses people off so much, make a english only party, i'm sure they wont mind one bit.

A majority of Japanese players with higher english can speak decent english, some Japanese can not.

Part of it is SE, part of it is the players being arrogant. Hopefully they will put the MS or Google EDU translator in which does a better job.

Yet to put JA only is just arrogance, and some are nto exactly the best players. In a global community everyone needs to bend.

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Originally Posted by Rau

inb4 weaboo defense force.

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You're way too late on that one my friend.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

This kind of thing isn't about being racist, it's about communication.

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Of course. I don't think anyone in their right mind would claim it's actual racism.

The only logic I think people shouting should use is quite simple: if you only want Jp speaking players, just type the whole shout in Japanese. Obviously non japanese speaking players will not understand what you're shouting for or ask you to join.

But if you're using auto-translate you should expect others to use auto-translate as well, even if they can't speak japanese.

I'll give an example of why auto-translate can be sketchy at times. In FFXI we would use the auto-translate {Bee} {ready!} meaning be ready or please be ready, which is fine in English, be, and bee sound exactly the same so we can understand it, now what the Japanese auto-translate would read is {鉢} {準備を！} when it should read ある準備を！

These 2 terms in romaji are Hachi junbi o! for the auto translated, and Aru junbi o! for what we mean, these are completely different and it will cause a lot of confusion for a Japanese player, yes we make terms up that sound fine to us but in another language they will sound completely different.

This is what makes it impossible to use auto translate for harder content, as someone above said try to explain the entire Garuda fight to me using nothing but auto-translate terms, I assure you it will not go well.

Personally I wouldn't mind if someone could make an auto-translate addon in ARR when we get user created addons, just click a button to choose language and type in English, the problem would be the complexity of the Japanese language and how small things can change the meaning of the sentence.

Example, if someone was shouting for Garuda and you wanted to go on BLM, you type "do you need a black mage?" it would appear on the Japanese player's screen as "あなたは、黒魔道士が必要なのでしょうか" or for people who can't read it: "Anata wa, kuro madō-shi ga hitsuyōna nodeshou ka"

Disclaimer: All Japanese in this post was done on Google translate, if there are any mistakes with words or kanji take it up with Google, not me.

I can understand the frustration behind this, but to me, this seems to come across as wanting to make other people play with you, whether they want to or not. We're not talking about applying for a job or event. No one's stopping you from playing the game. All players are allowed to choose who they do and do not play the game with, regardless of their reasons.

You can agree or disagree with those reasons, and debate whether or not those reasons are *looks up dramatically and shakes fist* "Wrong!" until you're blue in the face (or carpal tunnel in the wrists), but I haven't read anything in this thread that suggests something that needs to be stopped. Player groups are entirely a player affair, there's no calling the teacher to come over and make them let you play four-square with them at recess.

If I've misinterpreted the OP, I apologize.

That's true Seig. If they want JP onry, then give them JP onry using Google Translate. It's not perfect but it works and so long as you don't type too much you should be able to fake your way through it. :)

Signing up for an Endgame Shell: "You MUST have all classes to 50 even DoH/DoL."
Signing up for an Endgame Shell: "You MUST use Teamspeak/Vent/Mumble."
Shouting for Primals: "<Primal> <Do you need it?> 1/8, BLM, BRD, WHM and Tank Please."
Shouting for CC SB: "BLMs and BRDs only please."
Shouting for Regular SB parties: "BLMs, BRD, WHM and WARs please."
Shouting for Dungeons: "BLMs, BRDs, WHM and Tank (WAR) please."

So what's the difference with Japanese players shouting for others who can speak Japanese and what pretty much everyone else does? Showing a preference? It's about communication even in regular parties, so those who say "You don't need to talk in x" just because you choose to be anti-social doesn't mean everyone else view that belief.

When I shout and recruit for party members, all language is welcomed. However I understand if someone is not comfortable communicating in a different language. It might be embarrassing for them if they make mistakes.

The auto-translate phrases is nice, but I think something like a google translate will be better lol?

I've never understood people's inclination to use the translator for <May> <Bee> Over just typing Maybe. I mean you already typed ma and be, which is 4/5 letters and hit tab twice. Would it take that much longer to find the Y key that you'd rather double tap the tab key? Or is it just that amusing to confuse the shit out of JP players and the (apparently) few people that understand how the translator works? Somebody clue me in on this one, cause I'm stumped.

As for the topic at hand, I've been in JP parties, invited JP to parties, and overlooked JP players in favor of someone that spoke my native language even for simple things like XP grinds. Sometimes you just don't wanna screw with the translator, even if you don't suck at using it. It's a little disappointing to see JP ONLY shouts, but I don't hold it against them, I've done the same. You want a remedy for the issue at hand, start an LS. When you pug something add the players that don't suck to your LS, or if they don't want another LS add them to your friend list. Start using tools other than waiting for the right shouts, because you're never going get rid of JP ONLY.

Using Google Translate isn't any better but it's actually a lot more understandable at times when people decipher it lol -- You get the idea across but it won't really save you. A lot of Japanese know basic english, this is true -- however most prefer not to use even that because of either comfort level or because in Japan it's not a national language, therefore you rarely need to even use your requirement of it.

What Levian said is also the other reason Japanese tend to stray from the AT -- Using basic words with it doesn't translate to what you're saying at all -- If I see <May> <Bee> while on the Japanese settings, I'm not going to assume you're saying "Maybe" or even anywhere close to it -- I'm going to be confused as hell first then not caring second. Japanese players understand basic things like "Ok" and abbrivations like 'brb' 'afk' '(class/jobs)' etc, but most want to communicate beyond basic things, especially in content.

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Originally Posted by JackDaniels

No, it's completely not understandable.

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For exp parties, and mog, and ifrit? No, it isn't understandable. You're right. However, when it's something that requires a bit of coordination, like Garuda or CC/AV, then yes, I can see why it's preferred to speak their native language.

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From my experience, and the experience of many many people, Japanese don't want to play with any gaijin, so you know what, let them be in their own little ffxiv world, just like irl.

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I've had plenty of JP players in my parties, and it's generally without problems. If you actually look at the JP forums, whenever someone recommends regional servers, there are 10x as many posts that disagree with regional servers. So it's hardly the fact that they don't like us filthy gaijin.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

When you realize that the auto-translate is actually quite bad which is the real reason a lot of Japanese players doesn't use it, the sooner you'll realize it's not laziness.

When the majority of shouts you see, from NA players, consists of <hyur> <fun> <hole> <can I have it?>, do you honestly not wonder why the JP stopped bothering with it beyond localization reasons? It's well known the localization between languages for certain things is why it's not heavily used.

Also, JP only generally deals with "Japanese Language Only", I haven't seen anyone who attempts to communicate with them get kicked, it's the ones who try to join JP shouts and tell them to speak english are the ones who get kicked, btw, NA players are far worse with their "kicking/declining".

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Didn't think we had <fun> and <hole> in <autotranslate dictionary>.... anyways... its really not that bad. It really *is* laziness or simple ignorance on how to use it if someone refuses to use it. Hell half the time you don't even need to communicate other than what the main goal is...

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Stop sitting there and thinking only the Japanese do things like that when every country in the world does something similar in some fashion.

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I'm not implying that at all. As the worlds population grows, globalization is inevitable, there are going to be some major cultural and language barriers that need to be broken through, it's going to take generations of learning, tolerance and understanding for it to work, I don't see why this GAME has to be a frontier for that battle. Good grief, there's clearly hatred all around from each side, so why not just segregate by region/language (which as far as I know, we are, thank god).

What i usually do is "only ENG" because i do not want a person that has no idea what im saying. I can 100% understand those Japanese players

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Originally Posted by JackDaniels

Do you not watch anime or any really any Japanese media? America is always portrayed as belligerent evil and/or half retarded. It's really unfortunate for the English get lumped in with Americans because America doesn't even speak English, they speak American, but I can relate, as a Canadian I get lumped in with America just because of my geographical location.

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Wow way to generalize. I live in Japan I see Japanese Tv everyday. Might be a surprise to you, but they don't talk about America unless it is big news worth events like the Colorado shooting or the Presidental race. We as Westerners also think what is in Anime is what actually happens in Japan... Sorry to burst this bubble for you too, but it isn't. Take your unfounded anger on how NA actually give them this impression. Most Japanese get impressions for military or foriegn visitors, Most love us and love talking to us because they find it either cute us trying to speak Japanese or they want to actually learn English and learn about us. While most times foriegner's I have seen around Japan expect the Japanese to appease them, by speaking English or their home countries language, or talk loudly or just be generally rude in public to what the Japanese consider rude and they don't do themselves. So yes those same people don't give us credit because most of us don't know the social norms. Though you also have those NA's that don't care, and cause problems. Like raping, killing or other things unprovoked.

Short story from experience when I first arrived in Japan. An American Sailor stab killed and robbed a taxi cab driver, just because he did not have the taxi fare to pay the driver. When in all honesty if you explained it to them they will take what you can afford, and go on with their day. As has been said many times before, it is a 2 way street. We don't respect them in most cases like some people think they should respect us for, when we are just as bad.

What makes you think you are so special? Ask yourself that, and if the answer is because it inconvienences you then you must rethink your priorities and maybe think that you might also be the problem at times.

Now for the kicking without a reason immediately yes that is frustrating and you can vent. Don't get angry at them over it just move along and find another group. Your anger toward them just reenforces in those select few players that yes we are all rude and self-entitled.

If it hasn't been said before this is not going to be as large of an issue once ARR is launched. Currently we are all on Japanese servers. At ARR launch there will be NA, EU and JP servers. How it is selected and what it will look like are still up in the air. Personally, the rare times that I do a PUG for anything I require English speakers and above that prefer people who can at least listen on ventrilo. Everyone who plays MMOs should have Vent, TS or mumble to listen in the very least...

Why do people continue to gripe about a reality that is ending in less than 2 months?

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Originally Posted by JackDaniels

No, it's completely not understandable. From my experience, and the experience of many many people, Japanese don't want to play with any gaijin, so you know what, let them be in their own little ffxiv world, just like irl. IDRC and neither should you, or anybody. Why play a game with people you can't communicate with. Playing with Japanese or any other nationality you can't communicate with is just one small step above playing a game with Helen Keller.

EDIT:
Can't wait for the ass-hattery that is going to come out of the enraged Japanese players who get stuck with Americans in the content finder. INB4 Search: Japanese only.

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I can attest to this. At least part of it. I have joined many "JP only" PT's..which should mean, Japanese language only, no? So anyway..I joined a LOT of those in my early days of FFXI...and when I would join they would call me a gaijin and ask me to leave, despite my Japanese being perfectly fine (I have taken 15 years of the language) I was like wtf....I was not rude or anything to them. o.O I understand their culture quite well (Was an exchange student there for many years growing up, etc) and studied it a lot. I did not say or do anything ridiculous, just said hello, thank you for inviting me. where shall we exp today, etc.

In other PT's I would join...a lot of JP would not know I could read what they were saying..and would make fun of my English speaking friends (most of my friends were quiet in the PT, and very, very polite, good players also) and act quite racist...I was taken aback by this. Especially since it happened a lot....

and before people think this....by no means am I claiming ALL Japanese players are this way..no, no they are not lol. Most of them are very sweet and kind...I have many Japanese friends I love to death. It is as someone said earlier...everywhere on this earth has jerks..and I've come across quite a handful of players that are this way in FFXI. In FFXIV not so much. The Japanese have always been more then happy to play with me and very patient and kind.

It is atrocious how people will kick someone from a party...really. I can understand doing it if someone is being rude and causing ridiculous drama. But anything else..come on....:/

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Originally Posted by Xmbei

lol still a face of America, thats the sad part. Though there is also the rapings of high school girls by sailors and marines in Okinawa as well, that surely doesn't help. I wish there was more control over who gets in, but sadly most people that go in are thieves or drug dealers or violent people, that were given the option jail or military, and of course they choose military, and then rob and kill and rape fellow military or those in the town they are stationed in. They are the ones that make the news and make us look bad too...

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-_- wow. Just take a few moments and think of what you've said. You say its a two way street then begin ranting about random crimes... just wow. 'wish there was more control over who gets in' 0-0

Anyways... we're all different, why can't we celebrate that rather than pointing out 'O that *American* robbed this convenience store' or 'O that *Japanese* guy was caught pointing a camera under girls skirts...' just with the intention to further ostricize them and yourself as 'different'? crippledchristontoast -_-

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Originally Posted by Babydoll

I can attest to this. At least part of it. I have joined many "JP only" PT's..which should mean, Japanese language only, no? So anyway..I joined a LOT of those in my early days of FFXI...and when I would join they would call me a gaijin and ask me to leave, despite my Japanese being perfectly fine (I have taken 15 years of the language) I was like wtf....I was not rude or anything to them. o.O I understand their culture quite well (Was an exchange student there for many years growing up, etc) and studied it a lot. I did not say or do anything ridiculous, just said hello, thank you for inviting me. where shall we exp today, etc.

In other PT's I would join...a lot of JP would not know I could read what they were saying..and would make fun of my English speaking friends (most of my friends were quiet in the PT, and very, very polite, good players also) and act quite racist...I was taken aback by this. Especially since it happened a lot....

and before people think this....by no means am I claiming ALL Japanese players are this way..no, no they are not lol. Most of them are very sweet and kind...I have many Japanese friends I love to death. It is as someone said earlier...everywhere on this earth has jerks..and I've come across quite a handful of players that are this way in FFXI. In FFXIV not so much. The Japanese have always been more then happy to play with me and very patient and kind.

It is atrocious how people will kick someone from a party...really. I can understand doing it if someone is being rude and causing ridiculous drama. But anything else..come on....:/

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Ya sadly I know not personally but know these type of people too. They are a small selection of Japanese....

Heck another short story from something I have picked up on in my past year since I started school (been here longer but never saw this till now) is The black car van racist Japanese Supremists in Japan. They purposefully in their black vans and imperial japanese flag and anthem blare it as well as hateful propaganda anywhere they know a lot of foriegners are. Mainly in the Roppongi/Minato area of Tokyo because that is where most of the Embassies and my school is located. They don't care but as you said it is not all. They are just people that believe half truths and such.

Your post also reminded me of a very vocal racist Japanese player on Siren server in my XI times. He would shout in a busy city telling us gaijin to get off their game and that we dirty up their world and ruin their experience. I have also been in parties with JP at the same time on FFXI and had the time of my life.

Anyways, I don't see the problem I have seen it since XI we have always made our own cultural groupings in the FF MMO's and we most times stay in our comfort zones, can't fault anyone for that. If you do come across a rude player no matter what the case blacklist them and also let your friends know that they are rude selfish/racist players. It probably won't do anything but it might help resolve something too.

What I want to get at though is you can't force someone to play with you because they don't. If they don't want to and you are a fun person to play with its their loss, find another group and enjoy the game, don't let a small community of secularist ruin the game for you.

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Originally Posted by Amyas

-_- wow. Just take a few moments and think of what you've said. You say its a two way street then begin ranting about random crimes... just wow. 'wish there was more control over who gets in' 0-0

Anyways... we're all different, why can't we celebrate that rather than pointing out 'O that *American* robbed this convenience store' or 'O that *Japanese* guy was caught pointing a camera under girls skirts...' just with the intention to further ostricize them and yourself as 'different'? crippledchristontoast -_-

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I did think about what I said, I worked with those people... I got robbed by those people so did my friends. In my time in Japan I have seen the best and worst of both nationalities in and out of the Navy. I still stand it is a 2 way street, we foreigners do things that make us look bad, and other times we do things that make us look good, same can be said for the Japanese. It's the human condition, until we come to understand one another and such as individuals, and not fear or hate or cause strafe because we form an opinion on a group of people because of 1 or 2.

You understand I am just trying to explain to some people on the forums that something might of happened to them or someone they know for them to feel this way or just raised that way. Sometime we need a reminder on this, that not all are innocent.

In short I am just saying understanding is key for us to work together in this Globalization world we are in now. It will take a long time and people should not be getting upset over a small thing of not being allowed in a party in a game, where you can seperate yourself from a conflict quite easily.

Edit: you do also realize when I said "let people in" I meant the Navy and military correct? not Japan or a video game....

Ive never seen any other race specify that they'll only take people of their own race in a video game.

It looks pathetic on your island. You people are already land locked, and have one of the highest suicide rates in the world. You would think that reaching out and experiencing something new might help your problems both in game and out of it.

It is you who, the JP, who are contributing to your own issues both in game and out. This topic is a great reflection on the social problems within Japan and the loner type society you have created.

Enjoy your JP only partys, I dont want to play with people who have the social issues your people have anyways.

>.> you don't think Japanese steal? (btw in that lined quote you quoted me on was people in the Navy I worked with....) Also for your information I do live in Japan. To let you know just a few months ago their was a wide range of conbini store thefts and taxi cab thefts from people with knives.... Crime is everywhere man, just because it isn't plastered all over the news everyday like it is in America doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

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Originally Posted by Xmbei

>.> you don't think Japanese steal? (btw in that lined quote you quoted me on was people in the Navy I worked with....) Also for your information I do live in Japan. To let you know just a few months ago their was a wide range of conbini store thefts and taxi cab thefts from people with knives.... Crime is everywhere man, just because it isn't plastered all over the news everyday like it is in America doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

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QFT.

The reason Japanese look clean, polite, and sophisticated is because that's the way they want you to see them. Their entire culture is embedded with cover-ups. Meanwhile, America values sincerity and honesty over politeness, which makes us seem brutish and vulgar. But really, we're all the same.

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Originally Posted by Keisuna

Is this better or worse than almost every NA player being too lazy to type out the word "you" or finishing their sentences with "lol" for punctuation?

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Lazy typists don't piss me off. The rage induced by not knowing if the WWWWWWs coming after every time I type or make the slightest mistake are directed at me or not. I can surely guarantee if it is directed at me, its not them laughing WITH me..

Also one thing is for sure, when you manage to catch a racial slur via google translate and call them out on it, they sure shut the hell up in a hurry.

People should step back and take a good look at this thread. With the amount of racist, ignorant posts you're no better than any xenophobic Japanese.
If you prefer to judge members of a society by the idiots and asshats, then you might as well do yourself a favor and shoot yourself to not have to endure the stupidity of our great modern society, no matter the country

Yeah he is definitely doing that right now. Can this thread be closed please? It is bordering offensive right now and I could go on all day about stupid Canadians, Europeans, Americans, and Japanese but its pointless. Stop making yourselves look bad.

well...that escalated rather quickly...

All I'm saying is that if you don't want to play with different cultures, you don't need to play a multicultured game and there needs to be someway of putting those that don't where they belong.

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Originally Posted by Raagnar

Yeah he is definitely doing that right now. Can this thread be closed please? It is bordering offensive right now and I could go on all day about stupid Canadians, Europeans, Americans, and Japanese but its pointless. Stop making yourselves look bad.

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Motion seconded. This thread's gotten so out of hand that it's uncomfortable to read.

Before this thread gets locked..which it most likely will lol I just wanted to say...to those comparing "JP only" to others shouting for specific jobs...um, those are JOBS..in a game we are all playing. What more are you supposed to do? Not shout which jobs are needed and go do something without healers? That will get you far! :o

It does not limit people by their language...it limits them to their jobs which everyone can level up if they want. But not everyone has the time to sit around and learn every language in the world. and with that I am done lol. Inb4 the lock!

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Originally Posted by Babydoll

Before this thread gets locked..which it most likely will lol I just wanted to say...to those comparing "JP only" to others shouting for specific jobs...um, those are JOBS..

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It is the same thing basically. You shout for people who can speak your language, you shout for ifrit but only want BLMs after the usual 2 WHM and tank join, why aren't you shouting for MNKs and DRGs? Why BLMs only?

You're just shouting what you want, it's just people take everything to a different connotation that isn't there.

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Originally Posted by Babydoll

Before this thread gets locked..which it most likely will lol I just wanted to say...to those comparing "JP only" to others shouting for specific jobs...um, those are JOBS..in a game we are all playing. What more are you supposed to do? Not shout which jobs are needed and go do something without healers? That will get you far! :o

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It's not about that. While some JP players limit their party to Japanese speaking people only, they mostly accept any class or job as long as you are good at it. EN parties just go "lol melee dps? who needs that in this encounter? gtfo". It's usually the Japanese who prove over and over again that those encounters can be cleared with any job and having fun doing it instead of the rest just sticking to the "safe" setups.

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it limits them to their jobs which everyone can level up if they want. But not everyone has the time to sit around and learn every language in the world. and with that I am done lol. Inb4 the lock!

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The initial complaint was, "Being declined or kicked from parties, not based on our gear, skill or ability to just play the game, but on language".

"Being declined or kicked from parties, not based on our gear, skill or ability to just play the game based on one's job" is not one bit better. I don't have the time to learn how to play all of the "needed" jobs of FFXIV and besides, I don't want to play a job that is boring to me (hello, BLM)

The game is supposed to be fun, but most players seem to have forgotten it and see it as their "job" instead.