WHM gets the short stick

whm enmity is fine. more regen, less cure bomb. profit.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Almost every single piece of Mage gear shares Whm/Blm stats but its almost always geared for white mage, look at Darklight Mage gear for instance.

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only gloves and breeches. boots are for bard (no whm in their right mind should ever sacrifice the ehnanced regen). cowl is useless all around. there's not a lot WHM can improve upon outside of AF and those two DL pieces. BLM can increase damage output by quite a lot with increasingly better triple melds.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

White mage has way better MP management than Black Mage, I almost never go out of mana on white mange, black mage you have to be way more careful.

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blm is a front-loaded glass cannon dps class. giving them better MP management would make them completely overpowered and preferable to melee in all instances. they almost already are, anyway. and if whm has mp management on par with blm or worse, who do you expect to heal garuda? ifrit X? rivenroad hard? bard? get out.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Aero/Stone combos god damn rock on single target attacks, where as black mage only has thunder lines for single target. ... We only have one useful enfeeble that's sleepga.

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and even without thundaga, thunder-thundara still does farrrrrr more damage (single target) unless your gear is completely awful, and should *still* do more damage unless the mob is specifically weak to stone or specifically weak to wind.

as far as sleepga- not only is it useful but it's pretty damn vital. but you forgot about its baby cousin, sleep. both are clutch. whm has nothing comparable to sleepga.

i'm not sure what you're getting at with your post but from the pov of an experienced healer/dps it seems silly.

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Originally Posted by yoshikwalla

The short stick? Are you kidding me?

The biggest thing I'd like for WHMs are enmity reduction. And lots of it.

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http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Divine_Benison
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Tranquil_Heart

But this would make it too much like FFXI and certain people would likely kill themselves or ask SE to remove it because it came from FFXI.

If all you are getting out of this is that we think you should leave, then maybe you should. We're trying to tell you how the class works, because you are bringing up points that, like Tahngarthor brought up, are either being addressed or have been talked about extensively. You're kind of beating a dead horse.

Also, the kinds of things you are asking for are ridiculously overpowered for the current WHM. Who cares if your endgame weapons aren't as good as a melee's? You get relatively easy access to your best staff (let alone all of your best gear) in order to do your job the quickest. SE handed you the healer's job on a silver platter. They even sprinkled on some amazing DD capabilities and gave you a side of enhancing. If you honestly want more than that, you're asking to be OP. You are also asking for versatility, when no job has that currently. You put on your Soul of X to become specialized. Take it off or change jobs if you want to do things not tied to your job.

BTW, no. 2.0 isn't for people that want their class to be uber. 2.0 is for the people who have stuck it out since the beginning with an awful game because of their loyalty to a company who promised big things. The way you are posting tells me you picked this game up after being banned in WoW (and with them hiring people to sell gold these days, how did you do that?) roughly a month or two ago and decided that, while much prettier than WoW, it still needed to be much more like it for you to be happy.

This is Final Fantasy XIV. Soon to be Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn. This is not World of Warcraft. This is not Karate Pandacraft of the Worlds: Rise of the Bitch King. This isn't even Final Fantasy XI. The jobs and classes will maintain their focuses and will not become the jobs and classes of other games. So stop asking for that to happen. Please.

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Originally Posted by fusional

whm enmity is fine. more regen, less cure bomb. profit.



only gloves and breeches. boots are for bard (no whm in their right mind should ever sacrifice the ehnanced regen). cowl is useless all around. there's not a lot WHM can improve upon outside of AF and those two DL pieces. BLM can increase damage output by quite a lot with increasingly better triple melds.



blm is a front-loaded glass cannon dps class. giving them better MP management would make them completely overpowered and preferable to melee in all instances. they almost already are, anyway. and if whm has mp management on par with blm or worse, who do you expect to heal garuda? ifrit X? rivenroad hard? bard? get out.



and even without thundaga, thunder-thundara still does farrrrrr more damage (single target) unless your gear is completely awful, and should *still* do more damage unless the mob is specifically weak to stone or specifically weak to wind.

as far as sleepga- not only is it useful but it's pretty damn vital. but you forgot about its baby cousin, sleep. both are clutch. whm has nothing comparable to sleepga.

i'm not sure what you're getting at with your post but from the pov of an experienced healer/dps it seems silly.

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My point about Darklight, is that the gear is way more useful for white mage than black mage, Looks at the Imperial Jester hat, that thing is specifically made for white mage. Yet the DoW hat can be used by any DoW.

They have two good spells, while we only have thundara combo. Fire sucks up way too much MP and is AOE only. Whm has a choice of to make two spells single target line, or just use the aoes. Which is really effective against groups of mobs. Hence why I see groups of white mages used to farm taper for ifrit. Situationally white mage can be a better DD. And look at the white mage run with the moogles, yes black mage can do the same, but you can clearly see white mages can be awesome too.

If there were another healing role, and people gave white mage a chance to DD, I bet you anything they could DD very well. Just like a white mage/nin with a kraken club would wreck havoc on people in pvp Balista.

White Mage will be useful 100% of the time, versus black mage which will be 75% if the mob is lightning/earth based. Some instances prove that blm isn't needed either.

BLM has quite a lot of options for the head slot, DoW however is actually more limited than mages.

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Originally Posted by Wolfandre

This is not World of Warcraft

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completely aside from the personal attacks based on your assumption that the OP is a FOB WoW emigrant, as it would be just as easy for me to assume you've never done anything of note in that game and therefore have little-to-no platform with which to speak from about it...

yes, this isn't WoW. but yoshi knows what makes wow successful and wants to make sure 2.0 has *those qualities* without necessarily directly emulating them. for the life of me i still can't wrap my head around where all this flailing baseless WoW-hate comes from. it's like racist republicans dropping the N-bomb any time the topic of welfare comes up. is it just some kind of weird preprogrammed bias you absolutely can't shake?

asking for a game to incorporate features similar to what another game has isn't asking for it to BE that game. stop generalizing and jumping to wild-eyed assumptions.

1.0 was a trainwreck. dev team did everything in their power to make it playable, and succeeded to an appreciative degree. but it's still far from an amazing product. and there are still things they need to really look into doing in 2.0 if they want the relaunch to be anything but another mediocre niche MMO.

so maybe, just maybe... paying a bit of attention to the better things blizzard has done with their juggernaut isn't such a bad thing... especially considering how much depth and nuance healing classes had in their endgame, compared to xiv. i mean, this is a whm thread after all.

tl;dr OP isn't the only person overstating things in this thread

World of Warcraft is an easy target. It has a large playerbase, one can assume that another has played it, and it's a popular game. Could have put any game in there and my point would still have been made.

The name of the game wasn't the focus. Insert Aion, Star Wars, TERA, etc. into that spot. Does it still make sense? The point I was trying to make was that the OP, while wanting very much his class to play more to how he/she likes, seems to have very little experience with this game and how it's classes/jobs are designed and more with others. I could be wrong.

While you have a point that asking for elements from other games isn't cloning that game, that's not what the OP wants at all. He is asking for WHM, an already pretty bawss class, to be even bawssier. Not much from other games in there besides from FFXI, which much of this current Dev. team is comprised of. If they wanted FFXI WHM in this game, they probably would have done it already. No need to ask for it, in that case.

Now before I jump my postcount even higher on a topic that I hold very little interest in, good day, forums.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

My point about Darklight, is that the gear is way more useful for white mage than black mage, Looks at the Imperial Jester hat, that thing is specifically made for white mage. Yet the DoW hat can be used by any DoW.

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that much is true, though the DoW hat isn't really as optimal for certain melee as others. but it is a little silly they'd give the DoM hat stats for whm when it's really only about the same as WHM af. though, keep in mind- the two most important stats any blm can get are magic accuracy and int, and they have a lot of options for stacking that up in the head slot already. while that's not entirely fair since it gets expensive, it still makes it possible for them to get much more from their head slot than a whm would normally by comparison.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

They have two good spells, while we only have thundara combo. Fire sucks up way too much MP and is AOE only. Whm has a choice of to make two spells single target line, or just use the aoes. Which is really effective against groups of mobs.

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you also see whms farming tapers because amalja are strong to fire. otherwise blm will always win in aoe dps. always. fire line is mp intensive but lacks the 20 second cooldowns of whm aoes. and then there's flare. fire line is also important for maximizing dps in numerous single target situations on blm, such as on coincounter and miser's mistress. it's not even about the aoe. it's about fitting as many spells into a ~2min window as possible in between your thundara/thundaga cooldowns.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

If there were another healing role, and people gave white mage a chance to DD, I bet you anything they could DD very well. Just like a white mage/nin with a kraken club would wreck havoc on people in pvp Balista.

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whm with some kind of melee ability would be pretty strong in pvp (though as others have mentioned, they likely already will be without it), but putting them anywhere close to melee dps would just make it a completely broken, overpowered class. balance is essential.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

White Mage will be useful 100% of the time, versus black mage which will be 75% if the mob is lightning/earth based. Some instances prove that blm isn't needed either.

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i'm not sure i've stumbled upon any instance that 'proved' blm wasn't needed or useful, and i've done it all.

LMAO.. I'm banned from WoW??? Omg! I had no idea, this is surprise to me, when was I gonna find this out?

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originaly had goober with a choco's head up his butt...but i geuss i deleted it oh well. but i pretty much agree with you(mujen) and a few others. just need to learn to play it within the paramaters that are available, besides 2.0 being right around the corner people are going to need to "relearn" a little bit on their classes/jobs any way.

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-Very good point, sir!

Who said anything about WHM DD?? where are you guys getting this from? Just because I asked for a WS doesn't mean dmg is bad.. Wow.. where is all this coming from??? Holy consuming all MP is dumb, yes I said that..

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i agree it needs some instants, absolutely. but making regen instant would just be too overpowered right now. it's already 56 mp for 2500+ effective healing on a short cast and recast time. making it instant would require greatly reducing the duration or nerfing the amount it regens for.

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- Fully agree, regen is powerful. So many WHM don't use it also, it makes healing sooo much easier, Sacred Prism + Regen = Boss mode for aoe healing.

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Also, the kinds of things you are asking for are ridiculously overpowered for the current WHM. Who cares if your endgame weapons aren't as good as a melee's? You get relatively easy access to your best staff (let alone all of your best gear) in order to do your job the quickest. SE handed you the healer's job on a silver platter. They even sprinkled on some amazing DD capabilities and gave you a side of enhancing. If you honestly want more than that, you're asking to be OP. You are also asking for versatility, when no job has that currently. You put on your Soul of X to become specialized. Take it off or change jobs if you want to do things not tied to your job.

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- Do you read what you type? Like, srsly.. sit down & re-read what you type. Basically the game is limited, so let's make everything limited, because obviously this isn't 2012, except the graphics need to be 2012, cuz that's what most of the posters care about.. THE GRAPHICS!
- Yes how foolish of me for wanting endgame gear to strive for.. sorry, yes SE plz hand us all our gear upfront so we can sit around and have no interest in endgame other than to watch others get drops, yet play a more demanding role.
- Srsly when did I say ANYTHING about DDing as whm?? So all the comments about WHM being able to DD is irrelevant to anything i've said.

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WHM, an already pretty bawss class, to be even bawssier. Not much from other games in there besides from FFXI, which much of this current Dev. team is comprised of. If they wanted FFXI WHM in this game, they probably would have done it already. No need to ask for it, in that case.

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- L O L ~ that's what you get. I'm sorry baws class? because they can cure? and have 2 sets of nuking? Dude.. I haven't touched/looked at FFXI since pre-abysea so my comparison would be dated, but that ffxi in 2012 is SLOW & DATED. The ffxiv engine is just a slight step up from that & thus they are reworking it... All this BS is getting annoying, some of you guys are like a bunch of hippies stuck in the 70's when it's 2012. You guys don't deserve a new engine you deserve some more of the same crap you been getting, getting on my nerves now.

FACT: I'm obviously posting a lot cuz im not playing a lot, i'm bored w/ the current game.

I smell trollmeat.

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Originally Posted by Mujen

WHM gets the short stick

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We call them wands.

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Originally Posted by fusional

whm definitely isn't perfect. it's a really easy and fairly boring job, though still an improvement over xi whm. if square could make it as deep and dynamic as wow's priest it would be perfect (as currently it resembles more of a shaman sans totems, and resto shaman isn't as faceroll as holy paladin... but still pretty damn faceroll), or close.

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I guess if we wanted to use priests as the template for WHM, you could do something like a Holy Priest for heals with a toggle that turns it into lolSmite Priest for quasi-DPS. The foundation is already there due to Cleric Stance.

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i agree it needs some instants, absolutely. but making regen instant would just be too overpowered right now. it's already 56 mp for 2500+ effective healing on a short cast and recast time. making it instant would require greatly reducing the duration or nerfing the amount it regens for.

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I don't know about that. One of the big things about regens is that incoming damage can still far outpace it. At least in my experience it's more used as a small buffer to help the healer keep people up in PvP.

I mean, if we have to nerf Regen you could tack on a +Healing Received effect to it, though that would also require either a proc or mechanic for the WHM to insta-cast Cure or a new healing spell that heals for less than Cure but is instant cast.

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Originally Posted by Mujen

So we have posts that people want sheaths & all kindas stuff that personally to me don't matter, so I'm voicing what I feel would be a good idea. I don't bitch about your other stupid requests. Get with the times. The developers obviously are. You guys are still stuck in the past...2012 and people are QQ'ing they want their animation locks and glitching, atrocious loot system, 17m dungeon runs just so you can spam the dungeon in hopes of getting a drop. QQ moar about jumping & grass.

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Just quoting this for emphasis. Wonder if some of those posters are willing to take a look at their own posts and realize the "0.o" factor to them. I've met people who are actually weirded out at the fact that this community complains about jumping and grass. And trust me, it ain't something to be proud of. Even the idiotic controversy over Ji Firepaw makes more sense than some of the stuff I've seen around here.

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Originally Posted by Mujen

Sentinel
Acquired: Level 22 Gladiator
Temporarily reduces damage taken. Increases enmity generated by actions while effect is active.
- So you get hate, you stand there pop sent for dmg reduction and just stand there until the hate shifts.. AMIRIT PLAYA?

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When sentinel is activated, hate is only generated via WeaponSkills. Abilities and Spells are unaffected. Square Enix thought this one out.

Sentinel is a great ability for WHM to use.

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

We call them wands.

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lololololol.

OP. Research. Recent research. Do some.

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My point about Darklight, is that the gear is way more useful for white mage than black mage, Looks at the Imperial Jester hat, that thing is specifically made for white mage. Yet the DoW hat can be used by any DoW.

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WHM gets two pieces of mildly useful DL and an Imperial Operative Hat that isn't really that much better than AF headdress.
BLM gets a full set of Milita gear specifically stat'd for BLM, which is much easier to get than DL and IO hat. BLM also replace all their gear with double/triple melded pieces anyways.

My only beef with WHM atm is that there isn't really a good weapon to gear for enhancing potency. There's the flame LT, and then relic. that's just about it. I'm malestrom, and dont' have a lot of interest in going after a relic. so i'm limited to wand of tremors stacked with VIT. or wasting several million gil on trying to get a giantsgal with a ton of VIT on it.

However it is 100% understandable why this stat is harder to get than the other ones. enhancing magic is incredibly potent. not to mention one thing whm lacks is offensive capability. so it makes even more sense for the weapons to be more nuke based, as most of the good whm gear lacks stats to improve this functionality. Of course it helps that almost everything is weak to wind/stone.

WHMs skill set is solid. So solid i find absolutely no reason to ever go CNJ. the loss of it's job skills is too painful. I can't really say that for any other job. except maybe war and steel cyclone.

The ONLY thing I think WHM could use is a little more gear selection. Aside from that they're pretty well set into their role.

DoL don't even get a stick. Be happy you have one.

OP is retarded.

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Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

OP. Research. Recent research. Do some.

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- What am I researching? The fact that the tooltip was never fixed? Have you researched every ability for tooltip errors? Don't blame the new player for developer laziness. Oh right "actions" = weaponskills.. therefore: action bar = weaponskill bar.. MAKES SO MUCH SENSE! DUH! OBVIOUSLY! Noob!

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Originally Posted by Riv

OP is retarded.

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-Awe, we like our dated, flawed game ^_^ How cuuuuute! *pinch cheeks*

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Originally Posted by Onisake

WHMs skill set is solid. So solid i find absolutely no reason to ever go CNJ. the loss of it's job skills is too painful. I can't really say that for any other job. except maybe war and steel cyclone.

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I agree in that the WHMs skill is pretty solid, but I do find going onto CNJ for nuking far more substantial. The loss of Regen does hurt, but gaining Sanguine Rite, Thunder, Fire, Fira, Resonance etc. makes it, in my opinion, more viable for nuking rather than White Mage. Especially considering the 30 and 20 second recast timer Stonera and Aerora have.

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Originally Posted by Mujen

- What am I researching? The fact that the tooltip was never fixed? Have you researched every ability for tooltip errors? Don't blame the new player for developer laziness. Oh right "actions" = weaponskills.. therefore: action bar = weaponskill bar.. MAKES SO MUCH SENSE! DUH! OBVIOUSLY! Noob!

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Oh, calling me a noob? Someone who actively plays as a WHM and knows how to operate it? Dear oh dear, you're just asking for a real PvP now.

How about researching exactly how a WHM performs with the armoury and job system? About how the abilities actually work? About the elements of each attack spell we have? About how stats affect the abilities we have? About abilities we can get from OTHER DISCIPLINES? About the exact role a WHM has in a party in FFXIV?

You comment on Holy consuming all MP, leaving us as dog meat. Well, honey-buns, if you know that they inflict BIND, you have a decent chance of survival by running away. Oh, unless you're dumb enough to stay still and go "OMG I'M GONNA DIE WAHWAHWAH" instead of trying to loss agro.

Regen is almost about instant as can get. 2 second cast timer, darling? If you can't handle even two seconds of casting, I don't see you liking the rest of White Mage, because aside from Benediction and Holy, all other abilities have longer or equal cast times.

You want fancy WS? Sorry, I don't want fancy, I want USEFUL. Which the WHM skill set is. And unless I'm very very mistaken, we get access to Shield Bash. TP skill? Tick. Stun? Oh yea, tick.

Primal weapons are not crap for DD WHM style. You wanted more playability on WHM, yet you ignore the fact that the weapons themselves give WHM an additional flavour of attacks? If you are on about every WHM being the same, then every PLD is the same, every DRG is the same, every BLM is the same, every BRD is the same, every MNK is the same...there's only one set of gear that is the best for a 'specialised' job.

No comment on the 'unable to cast while moving' issue. Beaten to death throughout the whole forums, with even a very very length explanation from our dear Yoshi-P. And if your tank is stupid enough to run ahead while in red HP, no buffs, no regen, and without the WHM ready, your tank deserves to die.

I don't even understand your issue with PvP. PvP interrupt spells? My dear, tell that to BLM, which has 0 defending skills aside from Sanguine Rite. White Mage get their own Protect and Stoneskin (30 second recast, compared to Sanguine Rite, 60 second recast). White Mage have access to Rampart, Featherfoot and Sentinel. White Mage have access to Repose with NO RECAST TIMER. White Mage have access to Stonera for HEAVY TO SLOW YOUR OPPONENTS. White Mage have access to AERO WHICH IS A DoT EFFECT. White Mage have effect to HOLY WHICH CAN BIND YOUR OPPONENT. White Mage have SECOND WIND FOR INSTANT HP REGAIN. Totally useless in PvP? Think again. Also, you are an idiot if you don't switch to classes for PvP, what with the locked traits of jobs compared to the more-expansive armoury system.

Maces? Leave my traditional WHMs alone with their rods, staves, canes and 'short sticks' as you so accurately typed in your topic name.

Oh, and judging by the rest of your posts, you really have no sense of balance between classes, jobs and their abilities do you? You just want to breeze through everything and have everything OPed. Nice. Go back to whatever kindergarten-game you play that lets you do that.

Now excuse my manners, which apparently you have no problem in discarding when you choose to verbally abuse others.

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Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

Regen is almost about instant as can get. 2 second cast timer, darling? If you can't handle even two seconds of casting, I don't see you liking the rest of White Mage, because aside from Benediction and Holy, all other abilities have longer or equal cast times.

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As has been mentioned earlier, having no instant casts means you're begging to being interrupted in PvP. Keep in mind the OP, myself and Fusional all have played WoW, and if the devs decide to take from that and spread around interrupt abilities that are not stuns (a la Shield Bash, Pummel, Kick, Earth Shock) anyone with fast reflexes is going to make your life difficult on the front lines. Especially if they choose to implement school lock-out along with interrupts or a global cooldown on spells after getting interrupted.

Additionally, the faster pace of combat makes time lost and time spent that much more valuable. Indeed, 2 seconds is nothing in the current game, but in a fast paced game two seconds is notable.

The OP's choice in words may be extremely poor, but at the least their concerns for PvP are well founded.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

As has been mentioned earlier, having no instant casts means you're begging to being interrupted in PvP. Keep in mind the OP, myself and Fusional all have played WoW, and if the devs decide to take from that and spread around interrupt abilities that are not stuns (a la Shield Bash, Pummel, Kick, Earth Shock) anyone with fast reflexes is going to make your life difficult on the front lines. Especially if they choose to implement school lock-out along with interrupts or a global cooldown on spells after getting interrupted.

Additionally, the faster pace of combat makes time lost and time spent that much more valuable. Indeed, 2 seconds is nothing in the current game, but in a fast paced game two seconds is notable.

The OP's choice in words may be extremely poor, but at the least their concerns for PvP are well founded.

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That's true. But you have to consider that the WHM in question won't all be having poor reflexes. With a Stoneskin, Sentinel and Rampart up, getting a 2 second spell off is easy if the WHM itself could get in. I'm not saying that they'll be totally immune (there should never be a need for a total immunity) but making WHM seem helpless in those situations seems rather childish. And as you point out, they made implement other stuff - we don't know. I'm assuming that the OP is referring to PvP in WHM's current state as he hasn't specified elsewhere.

Which is why I go back to classes being PvP. Sanguine Rite would be godly for mage classes considering it gives you back both MP and blocks interruption of spells. Interruption will happen no matter way for any mage class, even melee class, but that's not to say that WHM is totally off.

A bit off-topic, but I do want to point out that details about PvP is too little to make judgement on whether this is viable or not. We don't know about the arena size, we don't know about starting positions, we don't know about whether we can enter buffed or not....and those are just scraping the surface. If, say, arena size is tiny, you can't enter buffed, and you start off kissing one another, then of course, WHM in its current state is going to get blown off the side of the world.

And do forgive my own harsh language in response to the OP. I have no regrets about it, but sometimes, fire works against fire.

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Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

I agree in that the WHMs skill is pretty solid, but I do find going onto CNJ for nuking far more substantial. The loss of Regen does hurt, but gaining Sanguine Rite, Thunder, Fire, Fira, Resonance etc. makes it, in my opinion, more viable for nuking rather than White Mage. Especially considering the 30 and 20 second recast timer Stonera and Aerora have.

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You gain Thunder, Necrogenesis, Fire, Dark Seal, Resonance, and Sanguine Rite. Fira is THM only. (are you sure you go CNJ when you're nuking? lol)

You lose PoM, Esuna, Regen, Holy, Benediction.

PoM and Regen are worth more than the 5 spells you gain combined. Sanguine Rite is arguably good for surviving things like Megaflare, but you already have sentinel. and you'd be losing Regen.

Regen+SS trumps necrogenesis. heck, 2 or 3 ticks of regen will give you more HP than you'd ever get from Necrogenesis. It's also cheaper. the interupt bonus is nice, and arguably the best thing about the ability. but if you need that you're probaby SoL anyway because SS is down. Chameleon is more useful, as you can dump a ton of enmity and just not get hit.

Thunder and Fire will do reduced damage due to you can't combo them so they are really filler while you're waiting on CDs of stonera/aerora. your mp is better spent casting Regen or Stoneskin on someone. Or just getting some MP back by not doing anything.

Dark Seal has too long a CD to be useful. stone's debuff also kind of overlaps with it. (provided you can get it to land)

Resonance's main utility is so you can apply a movement debuff before they get to you. WHM doesn't have one (except stonera, and they'll be on top of you before you can Resonance+stone => stonera) so this isn't that useful either.

I focus on enhancing potency. the other whm in my party almost always has higher healing potency, and lower enhancing than me, so i typically let them cure bomb. I keep cleric stance up and rotate:

stone => aero => Aerora => stone => Stonera => regen/SS => Blissful => stone => aero => aerora => stone => Stonera => prism => SS/Regen => Blissful + second wind => Shroud of saints => repeat

Cure when needed. stop attacking to buff when needed. Don't nuke if i'm under 800 or so mp.

I'd argue that it's more viable. I don't think it gives you that many more options. but it's certainly an option and different than normal. Regen is just too powerful to give up IMO.

- Well I was making a sarcastic comment that you would be saying to me: " MAKES SO MUCH SENSE! DUH! OBVIOUSLY! Noob!" It's sarcastic because the tooltip says "ability" yet it really needs to say is "weaponskill". So that clear's that up.. I've only been playing the game a month, you more than likely have been more, so technically i'd be the "noob."
- Btw I had no idea WHM could use shield bash, but In all fairness it's going to be very limiting, so it's rly not that useful maybe once in a blue moon. I would not consider Shield Bash a WS by classic definition, moreso of an ability.. BUT (sarcasm here) since ability = weaponskill.. I guess it would be.. ha ha ha! (obvious sarcasm!).
- Hexastrike, unless I was mistaken was a Mace skill, AMIRITE, hater?! Besides, I could bitch about the overall lack in this game, but I choose WHM as the shorter end of the stick. Yes lots of changes will be made, but if this whm lack trend occurs again, it'll be sad face all over again... In all fairness I think every class needs access to more weapon variety & equipment, period. I'm hoping 2.0 will resolve a lot of issues.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Officially it is because people wanted something to break a started cast.

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- I'm gonna chalk it upto server-communication lag but you can start casting Cure, have to suddenly move and it still goes off, your character will stop for cast animation.. and in my case.. die to Ifrit's Eruption move. So moving currently doesn't stop casts efficiently & can cause deaths (we'll chalk it upto lag for now).

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I don't even understand your issue with PvP. PvP interrupt spells? My dear, tell that to BLM, which has 0 defending skills aside from Sanguine Rite. White Mage get their own Protect and Stoneskin (30 second recast, compared to Sanguine Rite, 60 second recast). White Mage have access to Rampart, Featherfoot and Sentinel. White Mage have access to Repose with NO RECAST TIMER. White Mage have access to Stonera for HEAVY TO SLOW YOUR OPPONENTS. White Mage have access to AERO WHICH IS A DoT EFFECT. White Mage have effect to HOLY WHICH CAN BIND YOUR OPPONENT. White Mage have SECOND WIND FOR INSTANT HP REGAIN. Totally useless in PvP? Think again. Also, you are an idiot if you don't switch to classes for PvP, what with the locked traits of jobs compared to the more-expansive armoury system.

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- For the fact that Holy consumes ALL MP, i'd hope it did something.. I didn't know it binded, but that's because I hardly ever use it, it's rly just for funzies, it's not practical. Yes i've seen the WHM Moogle Burn video, but do you think ppl came up with that as an initial strat or out of boredom? Losing all your MP when you have 0 melee capabilities means you're pretty much done. So Holy is actually a poor argument, it's more of a "why does this skill exist?" If whm had say a Melee weapon that could drain MP on hit, then sure... (and use common sense here "OMG thats OP!".. obviously not enough to get you full in 4 swings)
- Second Wind + "cast animation" = Annoying. Instant skills need to be INSTANT as in... I can run, hit 2nd wind while continuing to run. NOT.. runs.. hits 2nd wind.. STOPS for some weird cast motion.. then continue.. there are no skills you can "kite" with.. and we're not talking casting while moving we're talking like 2nd wind, rampart, sentinel, voke, flash...

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Originally Posted by Mujen

- Well I was making a sarcastic comment that you would be saying to me: " MAKES SO MUCH SENSE! DUH! OBVIOUSLY! Noob!" It's sarcastic because the tooltip says "ability" yet it really needs to say is "weaponskill". So that clear's that up.. I've only been playing the game a month, you more than likely have been more, so technically i'd be the "noob."
- Btw I had no idea WHM could use shield bash, but In all fairness it's going to be very limiting, so it's rly not that useful maybe once in a blue moon. I would not consider Shield Bash a WS by classic definition, moreso of an ability.. BUT (sarcasm here) since ability = weaponskill.. I guess it would be.. ha ha ha! (obvious sarcasm!).
- Hexastrike, unless I was mistaken was a Mace skill, AMIRITE, hater?! Besides, I could bitch about the overall lack in this game, but I choose WHM as the shorter end of the stick. Yes lots of changes will be made, but if this whm lack trend occurs again, it'll be sad face all over again... In all fairness I think every class needs access to more weapon variety & equipment, period. I'm hoping 2.0 will resolve a lot of issues.

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Wait. is this a discussion or a pissing contest? because now i'm confused. >.>;;

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Originally Posted by Mujen

- I'm gonna chalk it upto server-communication lag but you can start casting Cure, have to suddenly move and it still goes off, your character will stop for cast animation.. and in my case.. die to Ifrit's Eruption move. So moving currently doesn't stop casts efficiently & can cause deaths (we'll chalk it upto lag for now).

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This has killed me a couple times too. However I just adjusted my behavior. Ifrit has a very specific pattern when he uses special attacks. when he's getting close to using one i make sure i'm not casting. easy. all other fights are equally predictable.

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Originally Posted by Mujen

- For the fact that Holy consumes ALL MP, i'd hope it did something.. I didn't know it binded, but that's because I hardly ever use it, it's rly just for funzies, it's not practical.

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Holy is a very situation spell. I agree it's rather lackluster, and probably the only spell in WHMs kit i would change.

I currently picture Holy as an 'Oh F___' button. kind of like benediction is an 'Oh F___' button, but holy has a lower CD. considering it is an 'instant' cast and does considerable damage I think the spell is fine for what it is. if you have blissful charged and shroud up the mp consumption isn't an issue. even less so if you have an ether of somesort on you.

I've found it useful in a couple of situations. I've had WAR's collusion me while i hit holy on a group of mobs so he can get a lot of hate at the start of the fight. it does considerably more than flare, and does it far quicker. so Holy is not completely useless, you just have to put a bit more effort into making it useful.

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Originally Posted by Mujen

Yes i've seen the WHM Moogle Burn video, but do you think ppl came up with that as an initial strat or out of boredom? Losing all your MP when you have 0 melee capabilities means you're pretty much done.

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see above. Blissful+shroud gets you a lot of mp back.

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Originally Posted by Mujen

So Holy is actually a poor argument, it's more of a "why does this skill exist?" If whm had say a Melee weapon that could drain MP on hit, then sure... (and use common sense here "OMG thats OP!".. obviously not enough to get you full in 4 swings)

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Again, it's not that intuitive of a spell. you have to put forth some effort to make it useful. kind of like resonance.

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Originally Posted by Mujen

- Second Wind + "cast animation" = Annoying. Instant skills need to be INSTANT as in... I can run, hit 2nd wind while continuing to run. NOT.. runs.. hits 2nd wind.. STOPS for some weird cast motion.. then continue.. there are no skills you can "kite" with.. and we're not talking casting while moving we're talking like 2nd wind, rampart, sentinel, voke, flash...

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why are you kiting on whm? why do you have voke on whm? on second thought, how did you even equip voke on whm?

if you have hate as whm you shoudl do one of three things

1) do nothing. let tank get hate back or die to reset your hate. do not use mp, you will need it as soon as you are rez'd. healing yourself gives you more hate and wastes your mp.
2) run towards the tank and do 1 or 3 once you are close to him.
3) pop shroud in attempt to dump enough hate long enough for tank to secure threshold again.if this fails see 1

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Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

That's true. But you have to consider that the WHM in question won't all be having poor reflexes. With a Stoneskin, Sentinel and Rampart up, getting a 2 second spell off is easy if the WHM itself could get in. I'm not saying that they'll be totally immune (there should never be a need for a total immunity) but making WHM seem helpless in those situations seems rather childish.

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Stoneskin has a cast time, and knowing what I know about interrupts, they ignore damage mitigation spells and barriers.

Hypothetically speaking, if we had a WHM vs a THF, and the THF had an on-demand stun called Groin Kick and an ability called Cheap Shot that did no damage but interrupted spell casting, you'd be hard pressed to get spells out between getting interrupted and stunned by said THF. Sure, 1 vs 1 may not mean much, but in a group situation it is quite possible for that THF to be the bane of your existence if you're trying to get out life-saving cures but can't.

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Which is why I go back to classes being PvP. Sanguine Rite would be godly for mage classes considering it gives you back both MP and blocks interruption of spells. Interruption will happen no matter way for any mage class, even melee class, but that's not to say that WHM is totally off.

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I personally can't see them keeping stuff like Sanguine Rite as is. Additionally, I can't see them keeping the "damage taken interrupts spells" mechanic either, because then ranged classes like archers and musketeers would be incredibly effective at making mages miserable.

I agree that we should ask for details on PvP balancing and await for more information, though.

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Wait. is this a discussion or a pissing contest? because now i'm confused. >.>;;

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-lol yeah sorry...

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why are you kiting on whm? why do you have voke on whm? on second thought, how did you even equip voke on whm?

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- Just meant in general, they all make you stop moving & yeah you're right about the ifrit/predictable fight thing but I'm not too thrilled with having to learn to deal with dated/laggy system in 2012 after playing other games where it wasn't that way, but that's hopefully where 2.0 comes in so, yay for that! lots of expectations for 2.0!

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Originally Posted by Onisake

You gain Thunder, Necrogenesis, Fire, Dark Seal, Resonance, and Sanguine Rite. Fira is THM only. (are you sure you go CNJ when you're nuking? lol)

You lose PoM, Esuna, Regen, Holy, Benediction.

PoM and Regen are worth more than the 5 spells you gain combined. Sanguine Rite is arguably good for surviving things like Megaflare, but you already have sentinel. and you'd be losing Regen.

Regen+SS trumps necrogenesis. heck, 2 or 3 ticks of regen will give you more HP than you'd ever get from Necrogenesis. It's also cheaper. the interupt bonus is nice, and arguably the best thing about the ability. but if you need that you're probaby SoL anyway because SS is down. Chameleon is more useful, as you can dump a ton of enmity and just not get hit.

Thunder and Fire will do reduced damage due to you can't combo them so they are really filler while you're waiting on CDs of stonera/aerora. your mp is better spent casting Regen or Stoneskin on someone. Or just getting some MP back by not doing anything.

Dark Seal has too long a CD to be useful. stone's debuff also kind of overlaps with it. (provided you can get it to land)

Resonance's main utility is so you can apply a movement debuff before they get to you. WHM doesn't have one (except stonera, and they'll be on top of you before you can Resonance+stone => stonera) so this isn't that useful either.

I focus on enhancing potency. the other whm in my party almost always has higher healing potency, and lower enhancing than me, so i typically let them cure bomb. I keep cleric stance up and rotate:

stone => aero => Aerora => stone => Stonera => regen/SS => Blissful => stone => aero => aerora => stone => Stonera => prism => SS/Regen => Blissful + second wind => Shroud of saints => repeat

Cure when needed. stop attacking to buff when needed. Don't nuke if i'm under 800 or so mp.

I'd argue that it's more viable. I don't think it gives you that many more options. but it's certainly an option and different than normal. Regen is just too powerful to give up IMO.

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Actually, Fira is a cross-class ability, haha. It's the only second tier spell that you can cross class to any of the other classes.

Also, and maybe I should have mentioned this, but I use Conjurer when either solo or duo-ing. If I get a party of 4 or more, I always use White Mage because there would be a specialised DD in there somewhere.

Yea, I'm on my conjurer, and the abilities I have are Thunder, Fire, Fira, Sanguine Rite, Necrogenesis, Chameleon, Sentinel, Rampart, Featherfoot and Second Wind. The lack of Regen does hurt, but I consider the extra damage output overcomes that, especially if solo or duoing. I consider it the 'offence is the defence' option when it comes to Conjurer.

Dark Seal is generally not as good an ability for the Conjurer discipline, because they naturally have high MND for magic accuracy anyhow. Resonance, however, I find useful to pull mobs in or for sleeping agro mobs that are further away. And to confirm, I'm putting this in a perspective of a small party or solo.

Oh, enhancement potency is generally overlooked - I'm trying to cap mine atm. I'm still a good dozen or so points short from the cap, but Regen is deadly useful, I understand that. But as solo, I find the gain of more nukes generally having more usability in the case of conjurer.

(Also, it gives me the chance to flaunt off my vanya set and alkalurops. :p I should mention that the vanya set also gives a great deal of nuking benefits that further enhance conjurer as a more nuking-discipline rather than WHM.)

So I'm not saying you're wrong. But rather that I have my own reasons for choosing conjurer over white mage for nuking in small parties or solo.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Stoneskin has a cast time, and knowing what I know about interrupts, they ignore damage mitigation spells and barriers.

Hypothetically speaking, if we had a WHM vs a THF, and the THF had an on-demand stun called Groin Kick and an ability called Cheap Shot that did no damage but interrupted spell casting, you'd be hard pressed to get spells out between getting interrupted and stunned by said THF. Sure, 1 vs 1 may not mean much, but in a group situation it is quite possible for that THF to be the bane of your existence if you're trying to get out life-saving cures but can't.

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As far as I'm aware, as long as Stoneskin is up, you ignore all types of damage - the only interruption to reach you would be Sleep. Easy way to notice is getting attacked while having stoneskin up - your character doesn't flinch at all.

Ah, but in PvP group situations, you'll have a tank, preferably a Paladin, that can cover your White Mage and soak up all that damage. I'm assuming that it would also prevent statuses that link to those attacks to reach the White Mage. But as your last paragraph stated, this is all speculation and assumption, so we should wait for more details before discussing.

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Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

Ah, but in PvP group situations, you'll have a tank, preferably a Paladin, that can cover your White Mage and soak up all that damage. I'm assuming that it would also prevent statuses that link to those attacks to reach the White Mage. But as your last paragraph stated, this is all speculation and assumption, so we should wait for more details before discussing.

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- Did you use the word Tank & pvp in the same sentence? (O_o)

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Originally Posted by Mujen

- Did you use the word Tank & pvp in the same sentence? (O_o)

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Indeed I did. In group PvP, PLD's cover would be a nice boon towards the mage classes. Of course, PLD would be next to useless considering it's enmity skills, but with its defensability....

Have no fear, OP! The majority of the forum wants to have the "stopping-animation" in 2.0, means you still shouldn't be able to cast while YOU'RE ACTUALLY NOT PRESSING THE "W" BUTTON.

Have a nice day.

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Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

Indeed I did. In group PvP, PLD's cover would be a nice boon towards the mage classes. Of course, PLD would be next to useless considering it's enmity skills, but with its defensability....

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I don't think you know how World of Fantasy PvP works.

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Originally Posted by Risae

I don't think you know how World of Fantasy PvP works.

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But nor do you.

There can be tank in pvp , CTF and other kind of battle having some people with good sustain will help a lot , so that you protect the flag easier , you hold the ennemy longer when waiting for reinforcement ( zone control ) and in sw tor they added some damage redirection so tank would take damages for another player .

And also in some games such as the LoL the tanks are good to engage teamfight and controling the ennemy team .

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Originally Posted by Mujen

I'm not too thrilled with having to learn

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This is all I've been able to read of your posts.
And for god's sake please stop saying 2012 in every post! We know what year it was that you joined this game. But this was a game that came out in 2010 and most of us have been sticking with this since the beginning. Don't come into the game a month before 2.0 and tell us this game has a lot of broken mechanics. We know, we were there when they were more broken. We've just bucked up and learned how to deal with it until 2.0, which is now right around the corner.