New Player Etiquette

Mentor is a meme in this game. It's pretty much meant for japanese servers and etiquette. On western servers it's a name glamour that's about it.

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Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

Respectfully, if you are tanking post lvl 50.. pull more and get the dungeon over with. Simple as. I can give leeway to tanks at 50 and below. Above that? Nah, pull more and keep up the pace.

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This currently has 17 likes. By far the most.

Is there anyone here who thinks Chrys's main content that they care about is casual rouls rather than passing through it as a means to an end for high end?

It doesn't really matter though, because casuals being happy as opposed to fng off and playing another game, doesn't matter. Not even to other casual white-knights.

When it comes to things like 'this' I realise that it's not savage high end I'm mad at. Good for them in a certain way. Carry on, at least your acting to further your own interests. Your doing the minimum and then some to earn the right to have an enjoyable game.

I hope those white knights that are casuals genuinely are happy now and in the coming years, because if they start complaining now or later in the coming years, that would would be contemptible above all else.
You know who you are, and if the time comes make sure you keep quiet and just unsub. Don't start complaining to shut gate once the horse has not only bolted, but also finally run into traffic, panicked, fallen, and broken it's pelvis.

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Originally Posted by klu

And healers need to learn that throwing stones, lasers, and whatever else is *not* their primary job, they need to learn that they are *not* dps, and that if the tank dies it *is* your fault.

We can do this tit for tat thing all day. Im tired of dying because the healer wanted to fling a little stone.

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It is the responsibility of the entire party for a big pull to succeed. The tank needs to utilize their mitigations and understand how big of a pull they can handle. The healer needs to be able to heal and mitigate that level of damage. It's nice if the healer can also help with dps and it should be possible in a well-oiled group, but there are times when it's not possible. The dps need to be able to burn the mobs down quickly before the tank and healer run out of resources.

You have paladin in your bio and you don't understand that you do have responsibility as a tank? If you don't use mitigation at all and you pull everything in sight, you're probably gonna die with the healer out of resources and resorting to spamming basic heals just to keep you alive.

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

This currently has 17 likes. By far the most.

Is there anyone here who thinks Chrys's main content that they care about is casual rouls rather than passing through it as a means to an end for high end?

It doesn't really matter though, because casuals being happy as opposed to fng off and playing another game, doesn't matter. Not even to other casual white-knights.

When it comes to things like 'this' I realise that it's not savage high end I'm mad at. Good for them in a certain way. Carry on, at least your acting to further your own interests. Your doing the minimum and then some to earn the right to have an enjoyable game.

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Actually, the content I engage with the most is PVP. That's my (misguided) passion in FFXIV.

But I don't see how it's high end or elitist to expect players who are lvl 70+ to know how to play their job/roles. I'll give learning players all the time they need but when does that end? What, you think level 100 players should still be able to say "I'm learning"? And if someone has tank anxiety still, in SHB/EW/DT content, maybe tanking (with other players) just isn't really for them?

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

It is the responsibility of the entire party for a big pull to succeed. The tank needs to utilize their mitigations and understand how big of a pull they can handle. The healer needs to be able to heal and mitigate that level of damage. It's nice if the healer can also help with dps and it should be possible in a well-oiled group, but there are times when it's not possible. The dps need to be able to burn the mobs down quickly before the tank and healer run out of resources.

You have paladin in your bio and you don't understand that you do have responsibility as a tank? If you don't use mitigation at all and you pull everything in sight, you're probably gonna die with the healer out of resources and resorting to spamming basic heals just to keep you alive.

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Where did I say that tanks shouldn't use mitigation?

When did I say the tanks *should* pull wall to wall?

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Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

Actually, the content I engage with the most is PVP. That's my (misguided) passion in FFXIV.

But I don't see how it's high end or elitist to expect players who are lvl 70+ to know how to play their job/roles. I'll give learning players all the time they need but when does that end? What, you think level 100 players should still be able to say "I'm learning"? And if someone has tank anxiety still, in SHB/EW/DT content, maybe tanking (with other players) just isn't really for them?

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Where this all falls down is that "know how to play their jobs/roles" invariably means "know how to play as well as me."

It's baffling to me that the same group of people who (rightfully) celebrate their skill in clearing high-end content simultaneously believe (apparently) that there is no intrinsic skill spread in the player base.

"By the time you reach DT you should be able to do X,Y and Z" is the most overused myth on these boards.

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Originally Posted by klu

Where did I say that tanks shouldn't use mitigation?

When did I say the tanks *should* pull wall to wall?

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Honestly I have no idea where your line of reply is even coming from. I was responding to this comment about why tanks would be uncomfortable with large pulls giving examples of what the tank's responsibility is in large pulls and refuting the "just pop a mit or two" mentality.

If you bothered to look at my past posts, I support the idea of allowing the tank to pull to their comfort level while encouraging them to try if they desire to give it a shot.

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Originally Posted by Shyxx

I never understood this tanks being uncomfortable with large pulls. If anyone should be uncomfortable it's the healer, the tank just pulls and pops a mit or two the rest is up to the healer (and dps).

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Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

Actually, the content I engage with the most is PVP. That's my (misguided) passion in FFXIV.

But I don't see how it's high end or elitist to expect players who are lvl 70+ to know how to play their job/roles. I'll give learning players all the time they need but when does that end? What, you think level 100 players should still be able to say "I'm learning"? And if someone has tank anxiety still, in SHB/EW/DT content, maybe tanking (with other players) just isn't really for them?

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Compared to your Ex farmer I'm a sht player. Never mind comparing me to a savage player.
XIV was my first MMO, and frankly my first action game.
I get mentally tired incredibly quickly compared to your average player, and could never do a 2 hour prog session without getting consistently wise after the first hour and twenty. (Not relevant to dungeons but you get the idea of what kind of player i am)

All that said, I know I'm finally a decent player. I know I'm useful at thinking on my feet to use my mitigations. I know that when I go in to PLD a normal alliance I'm good enough to take make 'all' the difference in guaranteeing a ropey group can clear. Even in my first/second look. I know that I can help a sprout healer gain a lot of confidence by showing them they can heal big pulls they thought they couldn't (because other tanks didn't use their mitties and that makes all the difference.)

But it took me a LONG time to ge there.
I didn't start pulling big, like more than one mob unitil almost hitting Expert roul for the first time. (That was EW) (... and no one in all that time ever made me feel shitty about it. By the way. Id have had my sprout for most of that. I shudder to think of the experience of have now.)

But I can absolutely assure you that it was still WAY beyond 50.
I dint think i had the courage to alliance (ARR) until around stormblood. It wasn't compulsory back then.
It took me a long time to develop muscle memory. (My biggest complaint about them changing jobs is that I've just given up trying getting good. It's impossible for me. I never even bothered unlocking viper, there is no point in me leveling as i can never get good, and it's not fun either in the tedious casual content.)

So yes. I do think it's reasonable to take that long. I got good eventually. I loved the game. I tried my absolute bloody hardest, but that's how long it took.
Back then people didn't feel the need to make people like me feel shitty. I would have noticed if every other DPS rushing me.
Then your totally fighting that many people might be terrified of dung any taking at all. They might well have hit end game before even unlocking their first tank, and then they're are mutual myriad ways to level 'really fast' while doing very little freak taking.

A lot of people just have NO idea how good they are, or genuinely less gifted other people can be. I would be willing to bet there are one or two things that i am better at you that that I would struggle to 'imagine' what it's like to be as bad at as you are (like empathic 'insight' frankly) but I can accept it as the reality.
You might be, but the chances are you are no genius. Imagine how a prize winning maths researcher would view your grasp of mathematics. The casm is in all likelihood unfathomable.
People can try their best but have 'very' different strengths and weaknesses.
And XIV is hardly maths research. So people can albeit taking much longer get there eventually, but it might take them, very much longer.

In the mean time it's just dungeon, and frankly there is nothing more ludicrously out of touch, than too pretend it 'matters' how one approaches a dungeon.
If you have only one way you like to run a dungeon, then you really need to form a static for that.

It kind of find as though casual trips are not your though. You are just looking to get out as soon as you get in because that's what suits 'YOU'. Your main event it PvP this time.

Any which way none of matters.

It ends when it ends. The ONLY time you will ever have s problem in a dungeon is if the healer is truly hopeless. Even then it's probably going to take an expert roul, a truly awful that tank also can't self heal, and a lack of the DPS that can res.
You see fresh new casual content more often than happens.
And that's not even an exaggeration is it!

The ganme is not just about 'you' having fun. It's about everyone having fun.
If everyone was going to be that bad fair enough, that would spoil 'all' your fun. But that's not reality.
That's never going to be. It's one every now and then you are getting to have to cool your tits over.

The issue with the mentality of someone should know how to play their class is that the game doesn't give you any reason at all to improve. The story dungeons are very easy yes but the idea of pulling wall to wall is a player created one.
Then you add the fact that in general, people are afraid to give advice in fear of being banned for whatever reason.
So I 100% believe that someone can go even all the way to LVL 100 without someone telling them to pull wall to wall.

And let's not forget that some people just don't want to improve. They're just having fun going at their slow speed. And they have the right to. We're all paying customers afterall.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Where this all falls down is that "know how to play their jobs/roles" invariably means "know how to play as well as me."

It's baffling to me that the same group of people who (rightfully) celebrate their skill in clearing high-end content simultaneously believe (apparently) that there is no intrinsic skill spread in the player base.

"By the time you reach DT you should be able to do X,Y and Z" is the most overused myth on these boards.

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Also "only play the way I do"

When we get randomly matched in Duty Finder, we don't know what someone's skill level is. We don't know if they have distractions. And honestly I don't care. It's a dungeon. We can do it fast and that's fun to me or we can do it a miniscule bit slower and that's fun to me or heck we can even take a ton of time in there because people are learning and that's fun to me. I especially enjoy those parties once they do finally get it because it gives them a little taste of the elation I get when I finally see that Savage boss die. There are so many people who try to hold people who the system randomly matched with them to their own personal ideas of how others should play. But the only person we can control is ourself. I find it a much better experience to adjust if needed to what I get since I'm letting the game match me with basically anyone instead of curating my experience with a premade group.

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

The issue with the mentality of someone should know how to play their class is that the game doesn't give you any reason at all to improve. The story dungeons are very easy yes but the idea of pulling wall to wall is a player created one.
Then you add the fact that in general, people are afraid to give advice in fear of being banned for whatever reason.
So I 100% believe that someone can go even all the way to LVL 100 without someone telling them to pull wall to wall.

And let's not forget that some people just don't want to improve. They're just having fun going at their slow speed. And they have the right to. We're all paying customers afterall.

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I'd modify that a bit to "people have reached their skill cap given the amount of time they wish to devote to PvE," but I basically agree.

This whole idea of everyone meeting a PvE skill threshold is completely misplaced. It comes from action-combat RPGs and has no place in a MMORPG. Particularly one in which PvE is poorly-designed and repetitive.

And yet somehow it has become the dominant ideology in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

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Yes 100%. I finally got better when I hit expert roul because I was finally getting 'feedback' on my play from the game. Remember I don't use ACT to cheat my way to improving my game play.
Then i didn't get better at normals and Alliances... until I started doing Exs in Endwalker.
100% it's about the game teaching you when you are getting it right , making you ask questions, by knocking your arse on the floor when you get it wrong. (24 man body checks teaches almost F all)

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

And yet somehow it has become the dominant ideology in FFXIV.

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I would say the dominant ideology is rather that everyone can play as they like. I think you have seen that attitude in both PVP and PVE.

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Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

I would say the dominant ideology is rather that everyone can play as they like. I think you have seen that attitude in both PVP and PVE.

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Maybe it's better to say there are two competing ideologies that are yet another major cause of friction between players. It's one reason I advocate for a dual-difficulty system in all required PvE content.

The situation in PvP seems to me different, in that there is a minority of players in Frontline whose "playstyle" is a ToS violation.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Maybe it's better to say there are two competing ideologies that are yet another major cause of friction between players. It's one reason I advocate for a dual-difficulty system in all required PvE content.

The situation in PvP seems to me different, in that there is a minority of players in Frontline whose "playstyle" is a ToS violation.

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There is a minority of players who actively play that way. But there are enough players that seem to not care/tolerate/excuse it. So the ideology "let them play as they want" seems to be wider.

Ultimately, people can claim it is elitist or un-empathic or whatever else they want to describe it as, I will still expect tanks to w2w in later content. Yes, we are all paying customers. Myself included. So as much as people want to say to consider those players who want to take it slow, it goes the other way too.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

I'd modify that a bit to "people have reached their skill cap given the amount of time they wish to devote to PvE," but I basically agree.

This whole idea of everyone meeting a PvE skill threshold is completely misplaced. It comes from action-combat RPGs and has no place in a MMORPG. Particularly one in which PvE is poorly-designed and repetitive.

And yet somehow it has become the dominant ideology in FFXIV.

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If its poorly designed and repetitive it shouldn't be that hard to pick up though. Like tanking in xiv took me so little time to pick up compared to other games. The skill floor to be an effective tank is so low there's really no excuse. People just don't want to put in the small amount of effort it takes to learn their role and blame others for their poor performance. Any other mmo has a minimum skill threshold. If you cant play in gw2 you cause deaths and get removed. If you cant play in wow you get removed. Everquest, runescape etc. The idea that you shouldn't be held to a standard and can sandbag anyone you want cuz feels is toxic af. Stop being a selfish player and contribute to your games community. This toxic casuality is exactly why people are leaving for other games in droves.

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Originally Posted by YovelaLindswood

If its poorly designed and repetitive it shouldn't be that hard to pick up though. Like tanking in xiv took me so little time to pick up compared to other games. The skill floor to be an effective tank is so low there's really no excuse. People just don't want to put in the small amount of effort it takes to learn their role and blame others for their poor performance. Any other mmo has a minimum skill threshold. If you cant play in gw2 you cause deaths and get removed. If you cant play in wow you get removed. Everquest, runescape etc. The idea that you shouldn't be held to a standard and can sandbag anyone you want cuz feels is toxic af. Stop being a selfish player and contribute to your games community. This toxic casuality is exactly why people are leaving for other games in droves.

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Absurd claims require evidence.

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Originally Posted by YovelaLindswood

If its poorly designed and repetitive it shouldn't be that hard to pick up though. Like tanking in xiv took me so little time to pick up compared to other games. The skill floor to be an effective tank is so low there's really no excuse. People just don't want to put in the small amount of effort it takes to learn their role and blame others for their poor performance. Any other mmo has a minimum skill threshold. If you cant play in gw2 you cause deaths and get removed. If you cant play in wow you get removed. Everquest, runescape etc. The idea that you shouldn't be held to a standard and can sandbag anyone you want cuz feels is toxic af. Stop being a selfish player and contribute to your games community. This toxic casuality is exactly why people are leaving for other games in droves.

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If you truly think that inneficient gameplay is toxic. Congrats! You're fitting the description of a toxic elitist.
But in all seriousness. Casuals are not the reason people are leaving. People are leaving because SE can't innovate anything at all and they butchered any individuality or complexity in jobs.

Listen, there are level 70 healers standing still and only casting if someone is not topped up. That's not a matter of being bad at the game, that's laziness. You can be awful at the game and even some of the worst tanks I've seen would usually get better when they tried. Dungeons (that are not Criterion!) are content that require zero, and I mean zero skill. A literal 12-year-old could do most of them. You get drip fed easy mechanics from level 1 to 50, by 60 you should know most basics. By 70 you should absolutely be able to know most basic shit, and refusal to do so is honestly just expecting others to carry you through content. Hell, I am godawful at AST but I still press more buttons than round 4 of "oh but my primary job is healing" Andy who doesn't wanna weave after a GCD even though they made everything have a weave slot.

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Originally Posted by 0blivion

Listen, there are level 70 healers standing still and only casting if someone is not topped up. That's not a matter of being bad at the game, that's laziness. You can be awful at the game and even some of the worst tanks I've seen would usually get better when they tried. Dungeons (that are not Criterion!) are content that require zero, and I mean zero skill. A literal 12-year-old could do most of them. You get drip fed easy mechanics from level 1 to 50, by 60 you should know most basics. By 70 you should absolutely be able to know most basic shit, and refusal to do so is honestly just expecting others to carry you through content. Hell, I am godawful at AST but I still press more buttons than round 4 of "oh but my primary job is healing" Andy who doesn't wanna weave after a GCD even though they made everything have a weave slot.

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You understand that a 12 year-old is far more able to clear SE's ghastly DDR design than a 60 year-old, right?

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Originally Posted by 0blivion

Listen, there are level 70 healers standing still and only casting if someone is not topped up. That's not a matter of being bad at the game, that's laziness. You can be awful at the game and even some of the worst tanks I've seen would usually get better when they tried. Dungeons (that are not Criterion!) are content that require zero, and I mean zero skill. A literal 12-year-old could do most of them. You get drip fed easy mechanics from level 1 to 50, by 60 you should know most basics. By 70 you should absolutely be able to know most basic shit, and refusal to do so is honestly just expecting others to carry you through content. Hell, I am godawful at AST but I still press more buttons than round 4 of "oh but my primary job is healing" Andy who doesn't wanna weave after a GCD even though they made everything have a weave slot.

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This. Even if someones bad I respect them if they actually try. I can forgive wipes in dungeons because the healer died from not knowing the boss. I can forgive a tank that tries the spicy pull in shisui and dies causing a wipe. But this game does have a standard pull. If it didn't they wouldn't have reworked the fun arr dungeons into two pulls and a wall. Forcing three people into a slow run because you don't want to put in the effort to reach the minimum expected level is just lazy and toxic. Tanks that don't want to learn how to mitigate and pull small, healers that don't want to dps(the game is designed around healer dps participation), or dps that don't want to learn their rotations are all problems.

"Every player that does not play on my level is lazy. And toxic. And bad. And toxic. TOXXXXIIIICCCCCC!!!!1111!"
- FF14 leet players (at least the vocal ones) -

If they knew that its the casuals that's keeping this game online...

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Originally Posted by Espon

If he's already in Endwalker then he should be used to pulling multiple packs. If he wants to go one at at time then used the Duty Support.

Just because you're the tank, doesn't make you the main character. There's 3 other people in the dungeon with you. I'm fine with stopping at the final boss for people to watch the cutscene if they're new, but pick up the pace during the boring trash packs. There's nothing scenic or "storylike" about slowly fighting the same enemies you've seen dozens of times before.

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Have you considered some players like taking in the scenery that also tells the story?

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Originally Posted by Rinoa_353

Have you considered some players like taking in the scenery that also tells the story?

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The story? Which story?
The one were the tank pull when one healer and one DPS are just entered a long CS? (Totorak and Stone Vigil are the prime offender here)

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Originally Posted by Rinoa_353

Have you considered some players like taking in the scenery that also tells the story?

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I'd actually recommend those players do trusts. The npc dialogue will add a little flair to the run and you can change it up over multiple runs. It also lets you enjoy the scenery at your own pace. But they have to understand that this is still a multiplayer game if they sign up for regular pf. Each player has a goal and the vast majority of people doing the dungeons with players don't want that. I do think its pretty rude to hold up three other people when there is an avenue to play the dungeons to meet their demands even more than with other players.

im not against giving a first time player more time to enjoy. but i cant do anything when they skip cutscenes on their own or if they dont say anything. im not a mind reader.

wanna look at something? reading the notes along the way? tell me. are you restricted by something? tell me.

use the chat!

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Originally Posted by Rinoa_353

Have you considered some players like taking in the scenery that also tells the story?

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Have you considered using Trust if you want to also sightseeing? Or, you know, you can just go back to the start of dungeon after you finish it.

Also why are people here pretending like Explorer mode doesn't exist?

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Originally Posted by miraidensetsu

If they knew that its the casuals that's keeping this game online...

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Casual ≠ Not even trying to meet the bare minimum requirement for your role.

Well, that's what you hardcore players sounds like you think casuals are.

Alas, I find it funny how you hardcore makes assumptions. About how everyone should be good enough to do X or Y when that thing needs some research and depends also on how other party members reacts to it.

All of that to justify a bad habit of running ahead of the tank just because you're in a hurry. Making tank's and healer's job harder because you want to speed run. If you're a DPS you should melt mobs, not be melted by them.

The minimum requirement for your role is to know how to act accordingly your job. And a DPS that goes ahead pulling doesn't meet the bare minimum requirement to be a DPS. Again, DPS melts mobs, not be melted by them. Do you want to pull mobs? Go play tank.

I wasn't born knowing how to tank a dungeon, like everything else it took time and practice, someone new to it should be given advice and encouragement to pull more but ultimately left to their own pace.

If you want to be a timid tank at level 70+, though, the job isn't for you.

Some people have way too much confidence in this game's ingrained ability to teach inexperienced players.

I can assure you, it does quite a terrible job. Level-syncing is especially bad for it and is in desperate need of reform.

I'm firmly on the side of 'just communicate' which, to me seems relatively easy, but i also understand that might be troublesome for others. I've been the insecure tank at later dungeons purely out of anxiety, I've also been the insecure and later confident healer, and a generally confident DPS, so I've tried out most roles. As a DPS, I've never had an issue with a tank playing more timid. As a healer, I've never really had a problem with a tank being a little slow, or a little bit silly, or a little bit uncaring in regards to their gear or mits or whatever. Idunno, I think if I spot a tank being unsure, I've told them when I was a healer they are free to pull more if they feel comfortable, but I've also had zero issue with them politely declining, or even not saying anything in chat.

I have anxiety, but I love MMOs very much. I know I'm not the only one who is like this, and I understand some of the critique given by other players who feel as though they don't owe anyone their time if they think the dungeons are going too slow. I think in a way, everyone has a point, to some extent? I dont' think anyone's necessarily wrong for feeling this way, I've definitely encountered some people who didn't know what job stones were in like. Stormblood content. It just happens. I'm not in a rush, but others might be, but again, I think the point is to try and meet people where they're at, if you can. I think if people leave it's their prerogative, but I also disagree with the idea that others are playing wrongly because of these things. You don't know them, you don't know why they play the way they do, you can only make an assumption, and I don't like judging people so harshly based on how many mobs they pull in a dungeon.

I believe that if you find the party members to not be working out for your playstyle and you don't want to deal with it, then by all means leave. But I think it's also okay for them to consider it an unnecessary thing to be fussed about as its casual content, I just don't think it's cool to act in any way that dismisses people and how they play and make arbitary numbers on when they think they should have been good enough to know better, ex 'If you are in Endwalker you should know by now how to play your job' etc. I feel like all of this should have a bit more merit if this person suddenly entered, idk, savage? I would find it funny still but at least in that case you could genuinely ask them to maybe figure out how to play their job properly and learn what mitigations are.

i feel like my words are mostly resorting to sounding like "we should all get along" so it kind of sounds a little naive, but I believe the best player etiquette is to always try to communicate first before having any immediate expectations because you truly never know what's going on with your party members when you're in queue with total strangers.

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Originally Posted by KrhisTia

This isn't a "OMFG NEWBIES BEHAVE" but a: Seasoned players chill out a bit.

I'm not a newbie, but one of my partners is a long time Fiesta online vet, WOW vet etc -- He just started a couple months ago, and is now ALMOST in mid Endwalker (first half).
:cool:

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First of all you are a new player, being at that part of the content having played the game only make you a small fraction of the game, listen to people, pull it all if they tell you so, they know better and even if it go wrong, it would be a lesson learned that you might need to use your cool downs and more as well, embrace that.

Having played wow, has nothing to do with FFXIV, if people tell you to go for more do it, worst that can happen is a fail and unlike wow we will have a laugh of it instead and saying lets try again but try a different approach with the same amount of mobs, going wall to wall is what we do here most of all.

Seasoned players can tell you alot, it does not mean that there is not toxic people, they are everywhere, though to my experience much less in FFXIV, meaning it is rare I actually have to report someone for going totally overboard, being now, old or veteran.

EDIT:
Being new means you can actually learn quite a few things from someone else, who has played the game for years and endured all the changes and challenges, to be able to listen, should be your ultimate first goal and if you are in doubt of things, just ask.

My gripe is with story/job skippers.

I don’t mind wall-to-wall pulls—I know I can heal them just fine. But running Aurum Vale (of all places) with a tank who dies repeatedly because they don’t know how to tank, despite having that job at level 100 and others mid-level, is beyond frustrating.

I wasn’t even healing this time—we had another healer, clearly new, which is totally fine. But how are we supposed to handle situations like this? The tank kept pulling every mob in sight, refused to use cooldowns, and the healer simply couldn’t keep up. This, of course, frustrates the healer: they’re new, everyone keeps dying, and as the healer, it’s their job to keep the party alive. Meanwhile, the tank is just… facerolling the keyboard, running headfirst into the same problem again and again.

A dungeon that should take, at most, 10 minutes ends up taking 30 because, apparently, nobody can be bothered to use… I don’t know, braincells or something. I can draw no other conclusion than that they’ve job-skipped or MSQ-skipped—because if you actually played the story, you’d know where to go in Aurum Vale and how to tank properly.

I’ve been playing for years, and I still don’t understand why Aurum Vale in particular always seems to bring out this exact scenario—people throwing themselves headfirst into a wall over and over, hoping somehow the outcome will change.

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Originally Posted by Nyastra

I don’t mind wall-to-wall pulls—I know I can heal them just fine. But running Aurum Vale (of all places) with a tank who dies repeatedly because they don’t know how to tank, despite having that job at level 100 and others mid-level, is beyond frustrating.

I wasn’t even healing this time—we had another healer, clearly new, which is totally fine. But how are we supposed to handle situations like this? The tank kept pulling every mob in sight, refused to use cooldowns, and the healer simply couldn’t keep up. This, of course, frustrates the healer: they’re new, everyone keeps dying, and as the healer, it’s their job to keep the party alive. Meanwhile, the tank is just… facerolling the keyboard, running headfirst into the same problem again and again.

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I'm usually the first one to tell the tank to quit being dumb and use his mits, especially if the same thing happens twice in a row. Sometimes the tank will listen and actually pull smaller or use mits, other times I get ignored / I find out the tank doesn't understand English (or whatever the translator spits out when I try to match their launcher's language) / seems they're not reading the chat and just give the sprout healer my condolences :') you poor things.

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Originally Posted by Nyastra

I’ve been playing for years, and I still don’t understand why Aurum Vale in particular always seems to bring out this exact scenario—people throwing themselves headfirst into a wall over and over, hoping somehow the outcome will change.

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There's something in the air in that place besides the toxic gas, I swear.

Had this situation yesterday, tank was 50+ and single pack pulling (I forgot which duty). I’m guessing they were newer to tanking? They were not using mits very well and got caught by mechanics. Was it annoying? Yeah. But I qued into leveling so I just sucked it up and did as much dmg as I could. Tank did start to pull more at the end, so yay for them.

What would prolly help the group, is if the tank gave a quick heads up at the start. Something like ‘hey first run of the day, need to warm up’ or ‘haven’t tanked in a while, need to remember the flow’. Just something to set the expectation. Could be difficult if they play with a controller to type all that, but slow tanks shouldn’t see others leaving as their fault, there are plenty of DPS willing to go slower for a clear.

New/learning tanks can always try and make friends with a healer to run too. Let them have the confidence to try bigger pulls and the room to mess up, knowing their healer pal has their back.

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Originally Posted by SkoNay

Had this situation yesterday, tank was 50+ and single pack pulling (I forgot which duty). I’m guessing they were newer to tanking? They were not using mits very well and got caught by mechanics. Was it annoying? Yeah. But I qued into leveling so I just sucked it up and did as much dmg as I could. Tank did start to pull more at the end, so yay for them.

What would prolly help the group, is if the tank gave a quick heads up at the start. Something like ‘hey first run of the day, need to warm up’ or ‘haven’t tanked in a while, need to remember the flow’. Just something to set the expectation. Could be difficult if they play with a controller to type all that, but slow tanks shouldn’t see others leaving as their fault, there are plenty of DPS willing to go slower for a clear.

New/learning tanks can always try and make friends with a healer to run too. Let them have the confidence to try bigger pulls and the room to mess up, knowing their healer pal has their back.

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Being so for real right now, I'd rather have single pulls, than W2W that just results in death 4 times over. But you are not wrong, communication goes a long way. Just sometimes even as an experienced player I genuinely do not know what to say to these people without coming across as nitpicky or a-hole. On main I genuinely shut my mouth until asked, because I know the reputation Mentors have. On my alt, which is a "Sprout" I'm like um... How do I say this nicely, I've resorted to just shutting up but when you're sitting in the room with the newbie who is getting frustrated, I dunno.

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Originally Posted by Nyastra

I’ve been playing for years, and I still don’t understand why Aurum Vale in particular always seems to bring out this exact scenario—people throwing themselves headfirst into a wall over and over, hoping somehow the outcome will change.

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Probably one of them is similar to mine once. I mostly tank with Warrior, and I got that to level 80. Yet I realize, I should not level that any further. I should level one of the other tanks. So I think, sure I'll take my Paladin, level 50. I get into a leveling dungeon, and it's Aurum Vale! I realize my gear for Paladin was crap. I realized this as mobs were hitting me hard, and eventually the boss. The party is very patient with me, and we finally get past the first boss, but I die at it. At that point, I tell them thank you for trying, but I have to bow out so they can get a tank that is better geared and won't annoy them further. That was embarrassing. So it's possible some hard focused another tank or another class and didn't realize they should probably have watched a video guide on how to tank before trying.