Can I ask why Creative Business Unit 3 are radio silent on the issue of Forked Tower?

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Originally Posted by Daralii

It's already at the point of Discord groups "reserving" instances up to a week in advance.

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All the spoils will be financially theirs as well. Total Monopoly on senguinite and everything that comes from the vendor. Our own version of the dutch east India company.

as I said in another thread :

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

The SE method is take note and "fix" things with next expansion. EW proved that. If it's not the right fix, wait next expansion. EW problems were only recognized during DT promotion.

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They keep the direction they chosen until the end (of the expansion), even with the majority of people saying to them they're wrong. You have to reach the whole Wuk Lamat fiasco lvl of backlash for them to think about changing something right now. Honestly, the backlash on Forked tower isn't that big compared to that one. r/ffxiv is even back at shoting down any criticism. I hope I'm wrong, but they'll probably not mention anything during next LL.

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Originally Posted by Astronema

All the spoils will be financially theirs as well. Total Monopoly on senguinite and everything that comes from the vendor. Our own version of the dutch east India company.

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The only AHable things you can buy with Sanguinte are 3 minions and 2 orchestrion rolls and the price on those is negligible at this point. There are MUCH easier ways to farm that amount of gil.

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Originally Posted by Yoshihara

I don't understand why someone in the dev team decided that the perfect storm of:
72 man instances
Unable to queue in as a 48 man alliance into an instance
Making the content 48 man content with mechanics that can wipe an entire raid if a random / one player makes a mistake / doesn't communicate you get the idea
Unable to choose an instance to join

Why was this greenlit? Did nobody have the foresight to see what it would cause?
All of this results in, as a lot of people have been complained about already, making the content waste hours of people's time trying to get into the same instance to do this content.

This also elevates people's frustration levels to ridiculous levels, it's an insult to people's time, we haven't received any apology from the dev team, no hotfix to implement at least the capability to queue in as a 6 party alliance. We shouldn't have to game the system by queueing on Dynamis (which is exploiting another problem brushed under the carpet of a dead Datacentre), of which EU doesn't have the luxury to do so as Shadow was removed.

So now we get instances of people getting angry and frustrated at the game after one person makes a mistake and wipes the raid. For all the "FFXIV respects your time just go play other games when you run out of content" memes (which is massive copium by the way), this is the biggest disrespect of everyone's time, and if anything Japanese culture should understand what it means to have wasted everyone's time.

Not only that but you've bred the perfect toxic environment where communities become intolerant due to how much time is invested into trying to get into the content. 47 people feel miserable when one person causes a wipe, and then the 1 person feels even more miserable because they have the eyes of everyone on their back.

You could blame "Toxic Elitism" of the raiders for ganging up on the one guy who made the mistake, you can blame the one guy for making a mistake, but ultimately the people to blame are the devs who somehow didn't foresee this happening with how this system works. For the few people who have managed to get a clear out of this, they've also created thousands of extremely upset, angry, frustrated players who are taking it out on each other. I find it hard to blame any of them, and my ire is directed at the dev team right now.

But what also really gets me is the radio silence from the devs, just nothing, no communication, no acknowledgement of the issue, nothing to let us know that the devs even care anymore.

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Your assuming they test these things properly with people who enjoy playing the game, that is asking wayyyy too much. :D

If they had play tested this content with enough people in an instance who enjoy playing the game, they would have easily noticed on day 1, most or all of the issues people have complained about. I dont think they test beyond "does it work".

I expect 1 or 2 sentences saying they'll look into it then possibly a change in 7.5 or never.

I really like OC. And I really want to continue liking it, but the only reason to continue doing anything in OC at this point (at least for me) is if I want to continue mastering jobs and upgrading gear to be more useful in Forked Tower. With FT the way it is (inability to queue or get a pre-made into that zone), I have no urge to return to OC until Relic Step 2 is released. Then I'll grind whatever the new nonsense is for a week and leave it behind again.

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Originally Posted by Valence

My personal pet theory is that they grew too wary of some of their quotes being taken to the moon, like "just go play ultimates" and others like that. This added with multiple sorties of Yoshida about players being crude or outright insulting on the forums toward the devs, tends to make me think that way anyway.

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good ol' blame the playerbase for our poor communication.

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Originally Posted by Valence

....

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That's still bad communication on their part. They do have to be competent enough not to put their foot in their mouth. If they do put their foot in their mouth they have to open it again to clarify matters.
Decent communication could have corrected the damage done by "play other games". But when you instead get silence, that's just unambiguously unapologetic.
Prominent, trusted reasonable YouTubers with working relationships, like Zepla have given them an out to exploit and still they remain silent.

As for insulting, they have behaved callously with the mixture of their lack of sensitivity in some of their decisions mixed with the lack of communication.

If they start offering me pro-rata refund on my unused sub, I'll stop being angry (and don't say watch YouTube and join the content late). But if you make incompetent decisions I'll call it incompetent. If you do it so often you make me angry, I'll call you fkn incompetent.
Offer me refund on my sub and then there will be a leg to stand on, but there is no refund, so I dint want to hear i shouldn't be fed up. Especially given the investment I have made in the game which they 'have' encouraged. They have not maintained standards.

(And if you take my money when I resub to join friends, don't give me the option of a refund, don't give me a normal Castrum, just provide a savage, then force me into a gambling bidding war I can never win to play that content, and don't offer me a refund on my really hard earned ever less spare money, i'll tell you to "go fck yourself'. Its beyond the pale. And still... no communication.)

Next expansion, offer full refund to anyone who has completed less than half MSQ, and is not happy.

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Originally Posted by Valence

My personal pet theory is that they grew too wary of some of their quotes being taken to the moon, like "just go play ultimates" and others like that.

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To be fair, if you literally go "then eat cake" its clear they get quite the backlash...

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Originally Posted by Kisshu

It's five records that's tied to the tower, or 1/6 of the current total records.

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Five???? That's even worse. Even Eureka didn't screw people over that badly in regards to lore.

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Originally Posted by Wyssahtyn

good ol' blame the playerbase for our poor communication.

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Originally Posted by Kuroka

To be fair, if you literally go "then eat cake" its clear they get quite the backlash...

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Pretty much.

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

as I said in another thread :



They keep the direction they chosen until the end (of the expansion), even with the majority of people saying to them they're wrong. You have to reach the whole Wuk Lamat fiasco lvl of backlash for them to think about changing something right now. Honestly, the backlash on Forked tower isn't that big compared to that one. r/ffxiv is even back at shoting down any criticism. I hope I'm wrong, but they'll probably not mention anything during next LL.

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Tbf that's literally every criticism with xiv reddit. I remember when Chaotic came out, everyone who so much as said something remotely negative about how it was got shot down.
While at this point it's copium, I'm interested to see what they will say about this because even the Japanese playerbase doesn't like it.

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Originally Posted by dspguy

I really like OC. And I really want to continue liking it, but the only reason to continue doing anything in OC at this point (at least for me) is if I want to continue mastering jobs and upgrading gear to be more useful in Forked Tower. With FT the way it is (inability to queue or get a pre-made into that zone), I have no urge to return to OC until Relic Step 2 is released. Then I'll grind whatever the new nonsense is for a week and leave it behind again.

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I also like the basis of OC, but with the way FT is, after doing all I wanted (500 fates, 500 CEs, leveling all the jobs, getting the gear I want) I'm left standing around scratching my head going "so.... What do I do now?"

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

as I said in another thread :



They keep the direction they chosen until the end (of the expansion), even with the majority of people saying to them they're wrong. You have to reach the whole Wuk Lamat fiasco lvl of backlash for them to think about changing something right now. Honestly, the backlash on Forked tower isn't that big compared to that one. r/ffxiv is even back at shoting down any criticism. I hope I'm wrong, but they'll probably not mention anything during next LL.

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I think Reddit explains a lot. You barely find any critical posts. I once signed up to Reddit a while back, because I wanted a discussion rather than to just air my thoughts, or get a simple answer.
Back then my critical posts were more just skeptical questions, because back then I thought I was doing something wrong. (I wasn't the options I'd later find out were just as bad as they seemed)
My post was just deleted.
Then i find out they could just make posts invisible without you knowing, ghost you , gaslight you. (So i deleted the whole useless account)
If you look at Reddit its all lovely cutesy Safe for work fan art and commissions.
If you look at the posts it's all roses and bunnies about occult. There isn't a single sentiment that gets any notice.
Even if you search for occult, you can literally find out which are going to be positive and which are negative from the updates, positive posts get upvotes, negative get none.

It is the epitome of "if you don't like it, go away and play other games".

It's the worst circle jerk I've ever encountered. How Reddit is still going I don't understand. Week actually I do people love to seek validation of their own preconceptions. We all do.

I can easily believe CB3 head to Reddit when they want to believe it can't be so that bad.

And why is this forum site so typically Square Enix Webserver jank.
It's like something put together using Macromedia Dreamweaver.

Square Enix, if you could even be bothered to host images, andc provide proper activity boards, and make it vaguely mobile friendly you might actually get some of that fan love on here.
Instead you have to fart about posting to some third party CDN, and then link it. Which still doesn't work properly half the time.

1. Gather 48 people with discord. I will give passcode 30 min before raid. Please dont pre-join.
2. 40 min before raid. Private pf shows up. "hmm, how come that the 6 groups are already 75% filled, i havent even seen the passcode yet.."
3. Spend almost an hour to get everyone into the same instance.
4. Grind Fate and CE till red weather.
5. Oops someone locked into a CE and can't get out to join Tower.
6. Let's w8 for the next one cause no one wanna go out and waste another hour to que into the same instance.
7. Seems like people have noticed how little amount of players were doing fate/ce during red weather.
8. Aaah, Red weather, Let's go team.
9. Hmm, seems like we have some randoms are also here waiting to que. How come???
10. Quick quick put in sipher and hopefully no snipers.
11. Oops, we got 2 randoms in the group. How do we deal with it?
12. Raid lead: We let them die and dont res them. They have no right to join the content we are entitled for.
13. First boss: OMG one forgot to stack.. Wipe..
14. Raid Lead: Good, now the randoms are dead. Lets proceed and have fun.
15. "Thank you everyone for the raid. Dont forget to promote our big casual discord server. The more ppl we get the better"
16. I Love this content. Lets repeat from 1.

Cause they suck? There is no reason to believe they give a shit since the raid got the streamer attention they wanted. Just assume the content is dead for you, forever at this point.

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Originally Posted by Infindox

Wait until the 20th (when the next LL is) to see if they say anything. If they don't, that's when I'd start getting frustrated (well, more then we already are having FT being like this in the first place).
I'm huffing the copium that they will actually say something because even the Japanese playerbase is extremely confused about it, many of them on their own forums saying they will skip it. They use Discord way less then we do.

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The 20th of when, next year?

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Originally Posted by RyomaUchi

1. Gather 48 people with discord. I will give passcode 30 min before raid. Please dont pre-join.
2. 40 min before raid. Private pf shows up. "hmm, how come that the 6 groups are already 75% filled, i havent even seen the passcode yet.."
3. Spend almost an hour to get everyone into the same instance.
4. Grind Fate and CE till red weather.
5. Oops someone locked into a CE and can't get out to join Tower.
6. Let's w8 for the next one cause no one wanna go out and waste another hour to que into the same instance.
7. Seems like people have noticed how little amount of players were doing fate/ce during red weather.
8. Aaah, Red weather, Let's go team.
9. Hmm, seems like we have some randoms are also here waiting to que. How come???
10. Quick quick put in sipher and hopefully no snipers.
11. Oops, we got 2 randoms in the group. How do we deal with it?
12. Raid lead: We let them die and dont res them. They have no right to join the content we are entitled for.
13. First boss: OMG one forgot to stack.. Wipe..
14. Raid Lead: Good, now the randoms are dead. Lets proceed and have fun.
15. "Thank you everyone for the raid. Dont forget to promote our big casual discord server. The more ppl we get the better"
16. I Love this content. Lets repeat from 1.

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All the reason to cancel sub.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

This is just going to become gatekeeped/discord content swiftly like Bozja did.

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It's already 100% gatekept at this point, you literally can not make this up. And you can't even get into a run via discord cause of all the jank and effort it requires to 'host' a run from outside of the game. The demand is greater than the amount of runs that are hosted. It's a complete and utter disastrous mess.

You could ask the same about a lot of issues we've had. Unfortunately, there's no community manager actively addressing concerns on the forums, and the Live Letters tend to only feature cherry-picked questions and feedback. It took a serious issue like the stalking plugin, which involved the IRL privacy of the game's subscribers, for them to respond early and have Yoshi-P posting here — even then, the 8-month "fix" was bypassed within a few days.

We never know if they'll stay silent on a problem or address it a year later. Both options are bad for the game and there is really no middle ground.

I had a revelation the other day, and I'm just going to copy paste my other post.

They make Chaotic. There is considerable backlash. Maybe even huge.
Then they make another instance like Chaotic, but now they make REALLY sure casuals don't stand a chance of even getting in without involvement in a discord that only experienced hardcore players will be able to get approved to.
I too have been sitting here going, "what were they thinking?"

However, I now realise they knew 'exactly' what they were thinking. These people just aren't stupid. They are not.
We know they aren't stupid.
So the only thing that remains is it's deliberate.

They were willfully caring only to seriously cater for high end. 'Every' indicator corroborates that but I just haven't wanted to think it.
They will have known what these actions will continue to do to the community and gaming demographic, and that is the point we need to take away.

Not rational financial sense? Since when have people been rational?
Yes there will be motivations, but those could be anyone's and anything.

What we have seen goes beyond accidental oversight.

It just does. They are 'not' stupid.

(Either that or one last option, which was they were trying to separate hardcore, from super hardcore, and educate them as to what it feels like to be a casual sitting on the sidelines watching everyone else have fun. But that would be stupid because it assumes that group have good empathy, and I'm not being snarky but that's just clearly not the case. This would be extra levels of ludicrous thinking.)

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Originally Posted by itachi-otsutsuki

It's already 100% gatekept at this point, you literally can not make this up. And you can't even get into a run via discord cause of all the jank and effort it requires to 'host' a run from outside of the game. The demand is greater than the amount of runs that are hosted. It's a complete and utter disastrous mess.

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Cartels gonna cartel. So surprising. The devs should name certain player groups as official agents.

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Originally Posted by itachi-otsutsuki

Cause they suck? There is no reason to believe they give a shit since the raid got the streamer attention they wanted. Just assume the content is dead for you, forever at this point.

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It's kinda funny, they make zone itself braindead boring grind but at least raid is sort of "fine".

Yet some moron dev insisted on BA style entering raid. REEEEE BOZJA BAD I DONT LIKE THAT PEOPLE CAN DO DRS AS GROUP REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE YOU FOOLS WE CAN ENTER FT ON DEV SERVER THROUGH PORTAL NO ISSUES SO DUMB PLAYERS SHOULD DO THE SAME REEEEEEEEE

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

I had a revelation the other day, and I'm just going to copy paste my other post.

They make Chaotic. There is considerable backlash. Maybe even huge.
Then they make another instance like Chaotic, but now they make REALLY sure casuals don't stand a chance of even getting in without involvement in a discord that only experienced hardcore players will be able to get approved to.
I too have been sitting here going, "what were they thinking?"

However, I now realise they knew 'exactly' what they were thinking. These people just aren't stupid. They are not.
We know they aren't stupid.
So the only thing that remains is it's deliberate.

They were willfully caring only to seriously cater for high end. 'Every' indicator corroborates that but I just haven't wanted to think it.
They will have known what these actions will continue to do to the community and gaming demographic, and that is the point we need to take away.

Not rational financial sense? Since when have people been rational?
Yes there will be motivations, but those could be anyone's and anything.

What we have seen goes beyond accidental oversight.

It just does. They are 'not' stupid.

(Either that or one last option, which was they were trying to separate hardcore, from super hardcore, and educate them as to what it feels like to be a casual sitting on the sidelines watching everyone else have fun. But that would be stupid because it assumes that group have good empathy, and I'm not being snarky but that's just clearly not the case. This would be extra levels of ludicrous thinking.)

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I agree. The whole thing has had too much work be put into it for it to not be deliberate. They knew of better options (DR,DRS,CLL,DAL) but chose this.

My guess is that putting FT in the casual farm instance makes it visible and fancy , even if no one can enter it. And if the streamer sweats can make a huge show out of it, apparently that's all they need.

It's funny how, on the same day as our hotfix patch (and day-long maintenance), the other MMO (that you all thought was dead) is getting an entire slew of new dungeons and a new game mode. While we are still forced to FATE farm and deal with Discord circlejerks for the rest of the year.

Why does Square Enix Co., Ltd. never face any repercussions from its bad decision-making?

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

the other MMO (that you all thought was dead)

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The only people who think it's dead are the same people who still think that game is in the same state that it was in 2020.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

... While we are still forced to FATE farm and deal with Discord circlejerks for the rest of the year.

Why does Square Enix Co., Ltd. never face any repercussions from its bad decision-making?

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Oh I think it is. I think it really is.
To this layman, and doing huge amounts of speculation...

if you have a look at the organisation you will see that it is looks a lot like an organisation will have significant overheads.
The gaming industry is hyper competitive, especially lately. We are seeing US devs/publishers really struggling. The high quality low cost dev labour in China is and eastern Europe is means that devs that don't make use of this, just won't be able to compete. (Think Wukong)
All the time, we know that Japanese culture is one of cohesiveness, and frankly real loyalty, and decency, a valuing of what you have in the here and now (not the culture of corruption, and gangster mentality that tries to pass its self off as "loyalty" in the west) , but this massively limits their inclination to be adaptable and their experience with working while 'closely' integrated with other cultures. They are not cursed with having to speak good universal English because Hollywood is the only game in town.
I just can't think of any 'mega' successes that Square Enix have had. FFVII remakes did great I am sure, but it's still pretty niche.
It's clear that all their works are fairly high tier affairs, with significant budgets, and there have been a slew of mediocre meh's with quite a few expensive disasters.

A while back they made a number of expensive purchases of 'foreign' studios in the americas west which they then had to laster dump in a firesale I think. (I think the problem is that the Japanese are 'too' trusting, I've seen first hand when bought up western corporations just start indulging themselves following a Japanese acquisition and giving corporate group the run-around so that they can continue to indulge themselves) They have the right idea for long term health, but its like they are naive to mixture of psychopathic self interest and Western corruption/loyatly that you not uncommonly encounter in Western leadership and pervades western management, where there is little concept of the 'greater good' as an admirable value.

Then you have to consider that they are a publicly traded company, and the pressures that will put them under, particularly if they have among their goals a desire to remain a Japanese company. One which I admire. Everyone should take pride in their own worth for what they are without having to measure that worth. Im a fan of tradition, as long as people don't demean those that break with it.
I think the problem is that actually the genes industry is massively overvalued. Unless you are doing mobile gambling addiction gatcha, or sports games like FIFA, (which I'd almost argue aren't 'games' at all) it is high risk, and so low aggregate return. At that point any game dev that goes public is immediately made almost incompatible with it's industry. Public is all about 'competitive' 'investment' 'growth'. A public company has to be a good place to save your money with a competitive interest rate.

And if we look at FFXIV, and it's massive sub base something is not adding up.
I'm worried that SE haven't raised the sub cost much in recent years. Back just after ShB they could have done. If they did so now there should rightly be outrage.

Honestly I'm worried that SE is going to turn out to be another Olypus. If I thought the workld at large read these forums I wouldn't post that last bit. Because it makes me sad, as SE used to do my kind of games before they became obsessed with action games.

(What happened to Visions of Mana's marketing, and Oaka studios, was a tragic waste. Meanwhile look at the support XVI got when they put their mind to it)

(Also, yes to discord circlejerks. I'd be happy to join discords if they were subject to XIVs ToS and the full gamut of XIV sanctions, but they aren't)

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Originally Posted by AlucaDragonheart

The only people who think it's dead are the same people who still think that game is in the same state that it was in 2020.

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Realistically speaking, it's doing much better than it did years ago. I'm already considering going back.

At least the devs there nowadays attempt to make something refreshing regarding every content they have from what I hear. I wish SE could learn from this.

I wrote it right now in another thread and i write it here again

I dont think Forked was meant to be cleared with a random queue and they deceided from the start they want it to be organized because like i said, i dont see it happen that a random queue clears that thing
they only really messed up with the 74 player limit on each instance

CBU3: 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

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Originally Posted by brinn12

You could ask the same about a lot of issues we've had. Unfortunately, there's no community manager actively addressing concerns on the forums, and the Live Letters tend to only feature cherry-picked questions and feedback. It took a serious issue like the stalking plugin, which involved the IRL privacy of the game's subscribers, for them to respond early and have Yoshi-P posting here — even then, the 8-month "fix" was bypassed within a few days.

We never know if they'll stay silent on a problem or address it a year later. Both options are bad for the game and there is really no middle ground.

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Honestly, we'll never know the real answers to some of the most popular questions b/c this is how SE handled it. For example, anything from lack of viera/hroth hats to like why the entry process in FT is so stressful, and that will remain a mystery. Also, I've watched old fanfest YT, and Yoshi P is very adept at side-stepping questions he'd just rather not reply beyond: I'll think about it, maybe.

I think Cider Spider is pretty much on point with it.

https://youtu.be/tPKIgDNRvmg?t=565

I thought OP was being silly thinking they'd talk about it but I forgot they responded right after BA was added

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post4896293

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

- Reflecting on the Baldesion Arsenal (Nakagawa)

...

In the future, should more issues like this arise, I promise to take your feedback to heart, communicate openly with you all, and quickly take the necessary measures to improve things. Thank you for your continued support.

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https://i.imgur.com/zav5mAk.jpg

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

I sort of assumed it is working as intended?

These are professional game developers. The implications of the design choice in FT would be obvious to people with that background. It may be a nightmare for most players, but "most players" are no longer the target demographic.

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Why is a savage level raid in the first tier of the Relic? BA was at the end for the 4th tier. Castrum, Delibrium and Dalraidia were all set for Casual Players in my view. DRS was optional and is one I still took many of my alts through.

Sorry but Crescent and the atma phase doesn't encourage me to take more than a couple or mine through the content. I lived in relic zones and have little interest to spend time there this go around. Fates are ridiculously fast, CE's are nothing but aoe fests and for me not much fun. The pacing is bad in my view with non stop running from one event to another. I enjoyed the queuing used for CE's a lot more in Bozja and fates were easier to attend for leveling.

Hopefully the second tier might change my mind but I suspect any changes to adjust the content at this point would be pretty hard for the devs.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Why is a savage level raid in the first tier of the Relic? BA was at the end for the 4th tier. Castrum, Delibrium and Dalraidia were all set for Casual Players in my view. DRS was optional and is one I still took many of my alts through.

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It's the one piece of feedback they took to heart for some reason. People who want to stream hard content complained that you had to progress through 4 zones of Eureka to do BA. So now we'll never get more than 2 exploration zones and the big raid will never be at the end. Pretty sure they even announced this as the reason why DRS is a standalone thing.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Why is a savage level raid in the first tier of the Relic? BA was at the end for the 4th tier. Castrum, Delibrium and Dalraidia were all set for Casual Players in my view. DRS was optional and is one I still took many of my alts through.

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Because SE now caters exclusively to savage raiders.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Because SE now caters exclusively to savage raiders.

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Well if that's the case they're going to lose a lot of casuals. Bozja was fun this in more ways than one isn't. Not that hard to pass up forked tower for me but the overall mechs and pacing of the game is poorly done in my opinion or at least not to my tastes. I rarely go there and this is from someone with 8 marbles and 12 Cerebus and 7 Frans bikes.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Well if that's the case they're going to lose a lot of casuals. Bozja was fun this in more ways than one isn't. Not that hard to pass up forked tower for me but the overall mechs and pacing of the game is poorly done in my opinion or at least not to my tastes. I rarely go there and this is from someone with 8 marbles and 12 Cerebus and 7 Frans bikes.

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I'd suggest they already have.

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Originally Posted by Asari5

'maybe fork tower wasnt optimal, we will do better in the next one. look forward to it'
i kinda expect something like that. then they will make a joke about it and laugh because they are always so very funny. and then they will move on and ignore it.

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This is 100% what they will do.

It's two of the things they love doing the most - never fixing anything instead considering doing it differently "next time," and pretending that they're somehow in the same boat as the players by joking about how bad their design decisions are as if they're not completely in control of them. They even did that second one this same update with atma.

the raid is not part of the relic at all :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Tsukino

This is 100% what they will do.

It's two of the things they love doing the most - never fixing anything instead considering doing it differently "next time," and pretending that they're somehow in the same boat as the players by joking about how bad their design decisions are as if they're not completely in control of them. They even did that second one this same update with atma.

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I dunno that they'll even say that; with the discord groups now bringing up engagement and clear numbers, there's also the chance they'll see those rising numbers and pretend that the content is fine.