2.0 Grass: please change!

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Originally Posted by Neptune

Totally man. It's PS2 all over again. Sad.



I see a sparkle of comprehension in there. It IS more immersive because it's not an EYESORE. Eyesores interfere with the suspension of disbelief. Add it up.

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Lol. An eyesore is better than magically rotating grass. When I change perspective, the perspective should change. Its not immersive for all plantlife to be attached to tiny swivels in the ground, and look identical from EVERY angle.

For that matter, actually... These are SCREENSHOTS. You can't even be sure that its NOT stupidly magical rotating grass.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

The prettier grass will be MORE fps and less lag.

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Totally denying any law of computer programming and common sense. Right.

I give up, i'll just leave with : fuck grass

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Originally Posted by Punainen

Lol. An eyesore is better than magically rotating grass. When I change perspective, the perspective should change. Its not immersive for all plantlife to be attached to tiny swivels in the ground, and look identical from EVERY angle.

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Ok SEE! Now we are getting somewhere. Now you understand, but you are just coming down on the wrong side.

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Originally Posted by Punainen

For that matter, actually... These are SCREENSHOTS. You can't even be sure that its NOT stupidly magical rotating grass.

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We can be sure. Because it's locked to 3D space.

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

Totally denying any law of computer programming and common sense. Right.

I give up, i'll just leave with : fuck grass

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You really left with "law of computer programming". That is what I will think of when I need some amusement in my life. Lol.

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

Totally denying any law of computer programming and common sense. Right.

I give up, i'll just leave with : fuck grass

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What?? You mean they're NOT going to go through the whole game and rerender EVERY fucking weed on every goddamn map because this one dude likes spinning plants?? /ragequit

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Originally Posted by Punainen

What?? You mean they're NOT going to go through the whole game and rerender EVERY fucking weed on every goddamn map because this one dude likes spinning plants?? /ragequit

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I think you mean replace. And no, it wouldn't be because I like it, but because it looks better.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

Ok SEE! Now we are getting somewhere. Now you understand, but you are just coming down on the wrong side.



We can be sure. Because it's locked to 3D space.



You really left with "law of computer programming". That is what I will think of when I need some amusement in my life. Lol.

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You must have cancer of the ego, because I see that it has swollen to grotesque proportions. No one could POSSIBLY disagree with YOU! Oh no! You know all! You are always right about everything! If YOU like something, it really must be the ONLY way! All others are just misguided! Oh, thank God we have your infallible wisdom to guide us to the light of seeing that in reality, all plants are better when you can see them rotate as you walk by!

Locked to 3D space? You don't know that because the image doesn't MOVE. And you didn't take a very close look at the Xenoblade image... They aren't all cardboard cut-outs either... But I find it highly amusing that you would ACTUALLY prefer spinning cardboard cut-out plants to plants with SOME sense of realism.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

I think you mean replace. And no, it wouldn't be because I like it, but because it looks better.

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No...no I don't mean 'replace'. Learn English, genius. You can't just reach in with your hands and pull up the weeds and plant different ones. It would require new art, new rendering, and strings of new code for EVERY FUCKING MAP. I don't care if it would look like the goddamn ceiling of the sisteen chapel, they aren't gonna do it.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

Dev team, do you think you could adjust the grass before 2.0's launch? :D

I think the grass looks particularly bad in this last one. Notice that the grass is indeed 2D grass. It's painfully obvious. There is a better way to do 2D grass though:

Wow! Xenoblade's grass is so much easier on the eyes. It's because every piece of grass is identical, and it auto-rotates to face the camera. It's an illusion that is broken if you stare at one piece of grass while you move around, but as an ambient component of the overall scene it is quite pleasing to the eyes. Also the Xenoblade grass would result in even better framerates.

Do it!

Also I know the trees are a little more of a stretch, but who thinks the trees in Xenoblade look better? They are 2D.

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http://i.imgur.com/jM8QH.gif

in player polls graphics was voted as the only redeeming thing about this game, so they downgraded it. duh.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

You really left with "law of computer programming". That is what I will think of when I need some amusement in my life. Lol.

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yeah, whatever you said.
I'll post this before leaving this topic alone: if you replace bad grass with better looking grass, that "better" is heavier on your pc than the bad grass, and more grass on the screen = more stress on your hardware, less fps and all wasted resources than should used elsewhere. You can continue to troll with this crap if you wish, but your idea better grass = more fps, if ever your true thought, don't exist in any corner of this world

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Originally Posted by bobbygunz

in player polls graphics was voted as the only redeeming thing about this game, so they downgraded it. duh.

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The plants are just as flat in 1.0. He just needed something to complain about, so he was staring at the ground in the screenshots until he came up with something.

http://i.imgur.com/Dk84c.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Dk84c.jpg

The crappy 2D grass is making Chuchumu sad.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

http://i.imgur.com/Dk84c.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Dk84c.jpg

The crappy 2D grass is making Chuchumu sad.

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OMG, THAT IS THE MOST REALISTIC GRASS I HAVE EVER SEEN! Its a travesty how much they blatantly downgraded it for 2.0! /ragequit


Edited for greater sarcasm: Seriously dude, I just don't know if I'll be able to get into 2.0... The grass is flat. I'm afraid I'll be engaged in an epic battle and the realization will just hit me--omg! The grass is no more multi-dimentional than it was during 1.0!! And it'll just ruin...EVERYTHING... I'm quitting the whole game now. I can't take this immersion-spoiling grass that doesn't rotate for some reason.

You know this isn't some petty matter about someone quitting the game over an insignificant flaw. This is a discussion of excellence in game design and aspiring to make the best of the relaunch of a failed game. In this topic grass is the part of the whole that could see improvement. That you have to phrase the discussion so poorly speaks to the smallness of your own mind, Punainen.

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Originally Posted by bobbygunz

in player polls graphics was voted as the only redeeming thing about this game, so they downgraded it. duh.

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Wait.. is it now common opinion that the graphics are getting WORSE? Because I thought otherwise...

About the grass / weeds / bananas / cocaine .. Im sure if enough people care about it they will put into consideration.

I just figured I'd drop in my 2cents on this. I'm only a first year 3d animation student but good modelling and low poly counts mean that lag wouldn't be an issue with 3d as opposed to 2d, whether it's online or not. (especially with zones being re-implemented) Just putting that out there. We're not in 1998. As Gramul said, there's a brilliant grass filter on autodesk maya, and lots of games use it. Xenoblade's grass does mean the scene's more fleshed out and fuller, but since I haven't played the game, I'd like to ask OP if it's animated as a character moves through it / are there wind effects going through it?

http://i.imgur.com/GuEPQ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ZXf6C.jpg

...Just because I can, repeating assets really bother me. Compared to XIV, there's quite a lot of things which are used a lot. Some things are rotated, but...

As for the grass in XIV, my first thought upon seeing it is "wow, that ground's a little bald" but we don't know what kind of area this is yet. Not to slight the OP, but Xenoblade's grass would be ideal for an area which is a field which not many people step through, etc etc. If you're in an area that would logically have a lot of foot traffic / people not sticking to the path, then XIV's grass there is realistic and fine.

I really dislike the shadows on the grass, it makes it look too busy and turns it into a confusing mess.

http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy...g_Chocobos.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuKX52_z19s
FF13-2 grass looks amazing with the wind blowing. Wind physics adds a lot more to the feel.

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Originally Posted by bobbygunz

in player polls graphics was voted as the only redeeming thing about this game, so they downgraded it. duh.

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Yeah, that new lighting engine is nothing compared to the TRAVESTY that is the grass texture in these pictures.

I hate this community so much sometimes... :I

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

Yeah, that new lighting engine is nothing compared to the TRAVESTY that is the grass texture in these pictures.

I hate this community so much sometimes... :I

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The little things matter.

Well based on the screenshots, the grass and tree/plant textures in general look atroucious. The pixelated shadows that they're casting, don't help the situation either. As far as I can remember, Yoshida said the quality would be about 15% better? If that's the case, this is pretty much what we'll get.

That said, it's a whole different deal when you watch it in motion. The tree/plant textures are just as bad in 1.0, but I don't really mind or notice it unless I stop and zoom in on them.

I agree. The lighting system in play could make them look pretty good, but the first SS with the pixelated shadows are pretty... well... horrible.

Everything else looks so good too.

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Originally Posted by Mug

Well based on the screenshots, the grass and tree/plant textures in general look atroucious. The pixelated shadows that they're casting, don't help the situation either. As far as I can remember, Yoshida said the quality would be about 15% better? If that's the case, this is pretty much what we'll get.

That said, it's a whole different deal when you watch it in motion. The tree/plant textures are just as bad in 1.0, but I don't really mind or notice it unless I stop and zoom in on them.

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He said what they were showing at E3 was around 15% of final quality I believe.

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Originally Posted by Gokulo

He said what they were showing at E3 was around 15% of final quality I believe.

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I think that referred to optimisation, not graphical quality. I remember getting the mixed up as well. I'll try and see if I can find the quote.

I don't see a problem with the grass, by looking at the screenshots I feel like they belong and it's better than what FFXIV has right now.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

The little things matter.

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Which is funny because of how many other little things are being overlooked to complain about this one.

Something like that is just going to be a fact when on the PS3. The hardware is very limited and thye will have to take shortcuts. Now if they have the PC version set to be more scalable like they say they will then they can add more details like that.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

Ah, sir but you are confused! The grass in Xenoblade is even easier on the frames AND it looks better!!

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You're comparing a single player console game to an MMO. You're an idiot lol.

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Originally Posted by bobbygunz

in player polls graphics was voted as the only redeeming thing about this game, so they downgraded it. duh.

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You know for something to downgrade it has to actually, you know... well, downgrade.

The fact that Neptune and others think this is a 'quickfix' that actually deserves resources and time to 'fix', just goes to show how little he/they know about programming.

I'm making a game myself with FAR less complicated graphics than this, and if you asked me last minute to change all the plantlife in the game, I'd tell you to go fuck yourself. There isn't any easy 'replace this with this' button. This isn't MSPaint.

first jump. then 'overly' sexy gear.

...now i guess we'll get 40+ pages about grass.

best community.

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Originally Posted by Punainen

The fact that Neptune and others think this is a 'quickfix' that actually deserves resources and time to 'fix', just goes to show how little he/they know about programming.

I'm making a game myself with FAR less complicated graphics than this, and if you asked me last minute to change all the plantlife in the game, I'd tell you to go fuck yourself. There isn't any easy 'replace this with this' button. This isn't MSPaint.

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Can't expect them to actually know what they're talking about. It's much easier said than done and there are tons of things to consider in making a decision like that, especially considering how many other elements it could throw off. Personally I'm fine with the current grass, especially if the game runs fine with it.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

You know this isn't some petty matter about someone quitting the game over an insignificant flaw. This is a discussion of excellence in game design and aspiring to make the best of the relaunch of a failed game. In this topic grass is the part of the whole that could see improvement. That you have to phrase the discussion so poorly speaks to the smallness of your own mind, Punainen.

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So let me get this straight... You win arguments by having a God-complex, and attempting to belittle the intelligence of the competition. Noooot exactly a way to win against people who ACTUALLY think for themselves. You've spent too much time debating against children. Welcome to the bigleagues, where 'hinting' that you think I'm stupid wont cover the fact that you can't carry your argument on real merits.

Come back when you can actually make a competent argument as to why, after complaining about the copy-paste environment, you think they should make all the plantlife look identical, all be the same color, and magically rotate; and should waste countless hours UNDOING what they've already done to 'fix' an issue that no one ever complained about until you just now.

GRASS will not spell the life or death of this game. Ever.


Edit: Also there was absolutely nothing wrong with my 'phrasing'. Try actually knowing how to construct a proper sentence and use words in their proper context before you attempt to lord over me with your 'superior intellect'. For that matter you may as well just stop trying if you don't know how; as a flamboyant sentence structure and eloquent (misused) phrasing doesn't actually convince me that I'm being outwitted.

I just wanted to say that SHARLA, DID YOU SEE ME? and REYN TIME

lol they will surely revamp every single leaf of grass in their whole new world especially for you,
they will just make up a few thousand variations in a couple of hours and simply overwrite the original data with them,
that's how it works right?

oh while were at it they should change the sky to more of a cyan, i am so sick of this dull old blue

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Well, actually, Maya has a nice grass generator in the hair modifier.

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It's be a while since I've used Maya, but if memory serves, the hair/fur generators work using relatively high-poly surfaces not billboarded textures; great for pre-rendered movies or cutscenes, but not really practical for the current discussion.

As for the discussion at hand, I think it's pretty much up to each person to decide if this is an upgrade or downgrade. In terms of just the grass and it's raw graphical prowess, probably a downgrade. But personally, those real-time shadows make up for it for me. Those are some of the best looking (not realistic, but eye pleasing) shadows I've seen in any game. My only complaint would be the lack of self-cast shadows, but those are notoriously hard on processors, so I'll let that slide.

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Originally Posted by Punainen

The fact that Neptune and others think this is a 'quickfix' that actually deserves resources and time to 'fix', just goes to show how little he/they know about programming.

I'm making a game myself with FAR less complicated graphics than this, and if you asked me last minute to change all the plantlife in the game, I'd tell you to go fuck yourself. There isn't any easy 'replace this with this' button. This isn't MSPaint.

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I mean, it's really stupid to think that SE has a high budget and specialists who know how to code better than an amateur.

thread lock by post 100

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Originally Posted by Neptune

Same^ Who is Neptune? I totally agree with him right now.

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Okay I just have to laugh at this.. hahahahahaha,

Okay Neptune, if Crappy grass is what it takes to help the frame rate etc.. I gladly will take the crappy grass :p.