Why Savage Feels Like a Chore

Because reward system in this game sucks and u don't see a noticeable difference with gear, doubly so because dps meter bad! mentality, meaning there's no real point in clearing more than once for the average player

/thread

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Originally Posted by BabyYoda

I was just wondering why I am not enjoying Savage content. Well, first, I fell into the trap of thinking that maybe I just can't handle this difficulty.

Then one day, one of my friends sent me a gift of Elden Ring. I thought, 'Hey, I didn't clear Savage content, maybe Elden Ring is too much for me.'

But after a few weeks, I just finished it. But why?

I asked my friend, "Why can I beat one of the hardest games, but I cannot clear Savage?"
Well, his answer was easier than the questions: "Because FFXIV Savage feels like a test."

I know many people just like me who didn't enjoy Savage or at least didn't enjoy Savage after Shadowbringers. For those people, share with me your thoughts.

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did you really compare Elden Ring with FF14?

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Originally Posted by OlafQuintessa

Oh heck yes. At least for learning it would be fantastic... No sitting in party finder. Dip in to practice whenever you like for as long as you like. No recriminations or feeling bad if you mess up. Never going to happen of course. But we'd never need to worry about midcore content again if you could practice anything with trusts, since the barrier to entry would be zero.

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Unironically, a Trust system that is explicitly designed to always see Enrage but otherwise lets you practice the fight as much as you want would be brilliant...

Elden Ring Requires dynamic responses and fluid inputs. You see, you respond, you answer, you repeat. It's a skill based game with skill adjusters.

FFXIV Savage and above requires rote memorization. Full stop. A team of bots could clear ultimate without so much as a sneeze of an issue.

You're finding FFXIV difficult because it's just rote memorization and recitation. Elden Ring being easier for you in some sense would tell me you just have higher energy and need to be kept interactive with the media of your choice, thriving on the reflex and response.

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Originally Posted by Sivante

Elden Ring Requires dynamic responses and fluid inputs. You see, you respond, you answer, you repeat. It's a skill based game with skill adjusters.

FFXIV Savage and above requires rote memorization. Full stop. A team of bots could clear ultimate without so much as a sneeze of an issue.

You're finding FFXIV difficult because it's just rote memorization and recitation. Elden Ring being easier for you in some sense would tell me you just have higher energy and need to be kept interactive with the media of your choice, thriving on the reflex and response.

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FF14 in general is a memorization game.

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Originally Posted by Purrnauskis

Because reward system in this game sucks and u don't see a noticeable difference with gear, doubly so because dps meter bad! mentality, meaning there's no real point in clearing more than once for the average player

/thread

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I enjoy savage/ultimates for the prog part

reclears/loot are kind of meh

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Originally Posted by Kandraxx

In ER you actually get better at playing itself, in FF14 you learn a script, beat it, and the next boss you are back to being a complete noob.

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I think that it's the opposite :p

Played souls/souls like since DmS ps3, did all of them, and I still take overall the same amount for each "hard" bosses, it's just that ER = "react & adjust" with pattern learning when FF14 is "dancing" and with each dance you improve at dancing

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Originally Posted by Kandraxx

Tbh the only content in this game that feels rewarding is doing deep dungeons solo, you can’t outright cheese or cheat it with plugins like you can Savages and Ultimates, at least not to the same degree, you are the tank, dps and healer combined, so everything will be on you if you mess up and compared to raids it allows for at least some sort of creativity and brain usage.

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Same as souls games, solo deep dungeon is more "react" than "dance" (for savage/ultimate)

And I enjoy a lot more savages/ultimates because of the fact that you prog with 7 other people

and also the whole "cheat/cheese" is weird to me, even with all the 3rd party plugins + SIM you will probably spend more time getting a FRU clear (easiest on patch ultimate) than a Necromancer title (hardest solo DD)

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Originally Posted by Ath192

It's simple if you have friends you'll enjoy raiding in XIV more than ER. If you have no friends ER is more fun because you don't need anyone to care about you to play it.

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Yeah I agree

I think that's about it

People who dont enjoy raiding in FF14 are probably progging in pf or with a bad static (drama, no fun, bad skill level, etc)

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Originally Posted by Ath192

It's simple if you have friends you'll enjoy raiding in XIV more than ER. If you have no friends ER is more fun because you don't need anyone to care about you to play it.

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This about FF14 in general, whether it's raiding or not.

I have been since ARR and never ever got interested in savage.

All that hard work, countless of hours wasted just for the same previous gear but "dyable" version and +10 item level that won't matter because the entire content it's based on sync your character down and in current-live content the damage isn't noticiable, maybe you are gonna kill the boss in expert dungeon 2 seconds faster.

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

I have been since ARR and never ever got interested in savage.

All that hard work, countless of hours wasted just for the same previous gear but "dyable" version and +10 item level that won't matter because the entire content it's based on sync your character down and in current-live content the damage isn't noticiable, maybe you are gonna kill the boss in expert dungeon 2 seconds faster.

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do you really think raiders are considering the prog like a chore, and they do it just for the loots ? x)

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Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis

do you really think raiders are considering the prog like a chore, and they do it just for the loots ? x)

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With how much some of them complain? At least some of them, yeah.

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

With how much some of them complain? At least some of them, yeah.

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Well I've never met a raider that's doing high end pve for the loots (= prog is a chore and loots is all I want)

except for criterion (savage), but that's a bad design, exact same fights with a "0 death" condition (even me I consider it as a chore, whem im progging the exact same fight but with an extra challenge)

How you feel about progging any encounter is subjective. Multiple factors affect how you feel.

For me, it's the players I play with. I can prog/re-prog the same fight twice with two different statics and have two completely different experiences. Some players are fun to play with, others make me not look forward to the next raid day.

I quit a static once because I couldn't stand playing with my co-tank. The same thing applies to all roles. A co-healer with bad communication, a greedy DPS constantly wiping the group, etc..

Encounter design & job design/balance also play a role in how I feel. I wouldn't say this is a deal breaker though. I like the variety in difficulty. Sometimes it's a chill tier, other times it's a much more challenging one. I don't mind either.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

How you feel about progging any encounter is subjective. Multiple factors affect how you feel.

For me, it's the players I play with. I can prog/re-prog the same fight twice with two different statics and have two completely different experiences. Some players are fun to play with, others make me not look forward to the next raid day.

I quit a static once because I couldn't stand playing with my co-tank. The same thing applies to all roles. A co-healer with bad communication, a greedy DPS constantly wiping the group, etc..

Encounter design & job design/balance also play a role in how I feel. I wouldn't say this is a deal breaker though. I like the variety in difficulty. Sometimes it's a chill tier, other times it's a much more challenging one. I don't mind either.

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yeah I agree

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Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis

Well I've never met a raider that's doing high end pve for the loots (= prog is a chore and loots is all I want)

except for criterion (savage), but that's a bad design, exact same fights with a "0 death" condition (even me I consider it as a chore, whem im progging the exact same fight but with an extra challenge)

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Okay? I've met raiders who do. Mileage varies. Your opinion isn't any less valid than theirs.

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Originally Posted by BabyYoda

I was just wondering why I am not enjoying Savage content. Well, first, I fell into the trap of thinking that maybe I just can't handle this difficulty.

Then one day, one of my friends sent me a gift of Elden Ring. I thought, 'Hey, I didn't clear Savage content, maybe Elden Ring is too much for me.'

But after a few weeks, I just finished it. But why?

I asked my friend, "Why can I beat one of the hardest games, but I cannot clear Savage?"
Well, his answer was easier than the questions: "Because FFXIV Savage feels like a test."

I know many people just like me who didn't enjoy Savage or at least didn't enjoy Savage after Shadowbringers. For those people, share with me your thoughts.

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FF14 difficulty comes from memorizing a single script, making sure you have the raidplan up on your second monitor and remembering which exact position you need to go to for a spread.

Elden Ring isn't actually that difficult compared to Sekiro. Sekiro is a far better game as well. You should try it. The difficulty comes from intuitively understanding the boss's patterns. When you kill a boss in a souls-like it feels like you have successfully read the boss and that you would successfully kill it again even if they behaved completely differently. That is not the case in FF14. If the fight changes its script the reclear parties are going to get stuck for hours. You didn't actually master the boss. You mastered a script.

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Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis

do you really think raiders are considering the prog like a chore, and they do it just for the loots ? x)

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Some definitely do, yeah. I know some and I just sit and think to myself "Why are you here making the rest of us miserable if you aren't enjoying this then?"

I definitely get frustrated and that's natural. But I'm at least getting something enjoyable out of the experience.

to only be able to obtain items that is based on the job you have done it as, would seem like a reasonable thing to do, if you did it as a pictormancer, you will only get pictormancer items and to pick/roll on pictomancer things, and if you want things as a healer, you need to be a healer to be able to get thigns, but only able to get the weapon as the healer you joined as.

That is some thoughts, and also a way to only be able to get the weapon as actual job joined as, but of course the other gear as your job reflect, meaning if monk, you can only get monk weapon, but rest of the gear would also cover sam, excluding weapon.

Crazy, are you telling me the scripted 2 minute job rotations plastered atop a scripted 12 minute synchronized dance feels like a chore? Couldn't be. There must be something wrong with you if you aren't religiously doing this every Tuesday. You must be "afraid of a challenge" if you saw what this was about and said "no thanks."

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Originally Posted by the title

Why Savage Feels Like a Chore

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Because like with chores no one really likes them
Most try to get it done fast and easy, cutting corners
And when it doesnt work out like that the blamegame starts

its not hard. getting people to not play subpar is the challenge

The real savage dificulty is the showers along the way.

There is no instant, guaranteed reward for clearing a Savage tier. Ultis reward players instantly with a unique weapon and a title, and Extreme gear is guaranteed after a few reclears, which one can do in 1 day. Also, the presence of a veteran in Savage clear parties means that people going for their first clear will lose loot.

Savage has been in a weird spot for many tiers now, where hard and creative mechanics were avoided to "reduce player stress". You can tell by Mr. Ozma's interview that there was a constant fear in the development of these fights, where they had to be as predictable and easy as possible, to avoid negative feedback from the community.

So there are no veterans, no instant rewards and the fights lack substance. Hence people don't find this content fun.

Honestly as someone who is new to savage i dont think this tier feels like a chore. I think its cause I been doing unreals/extremes. For so long Im tired of boring fights and Savage tickles my goofy brain ways ex doesn't. The chore part comes when u reach enrage 0.1-5.0% and ur trying to figure out how to break that damage thresh hold.