Nerf Chaotic

let it be DF only and not custom group in PF then, that would fix it, only way to do it, is to queu in with randoms and top of the cherry, make it so you can only join in with 4 people grouped.

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

Would make sense if you read beyond the word "nerf," considering op listed their reasoning.

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Ok but the first thing he said was "gona be real this fight is ridiculous. please nerf some of the brutally punishing mechanics like no time to react on aeros/death or death debuff and also the absurd body checks"

This immediately tells me he doesn't even understand one of the earliest mechanics of the fight. These mechanics are not something you react to. They're something you know is coming based on a cast that happens 30-60 seconds previously. it's extremely basic stuff. He also cleared the fight in 3 hours. It's obviously not that hard. This whole point is ridiculous.

omg. I just read all of his replies and regret it. No more time wasted on this obvious troll.

The content, itself, is not actually difficult. The real difficulty is people managment, and it having body checks, and people knowing there main jobs and how to play properly.

Yes it is clearable in PF, I have helped many prog into kill, or enrage kills, and got many an extra from this fight.
I think you are misguided, and have a lot to lean youngone.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

So basically they don't want savage, they want a normal alliance raid. Well we have those already, what's the issue again?

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They, like many others, want a more difficult Alliance encounter, yknow, what this was marketed to be? Not a 24 man Savage trial?

People wanted an extreme version of an alliance raid. Not a savage version.

This is another big problem on SE. They cant seem to find the middle ground in difficulty to ease players into the endgame savage content. I feel like phase 2 could have been done better.

this is so pathetic LMAO.

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

They, like many others, want a more difficult Alliance encounter, yknow, what this was marketed to be? Not a 24 man Savage trial?

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You can stop repeating this lie, it doesn't make it any more true.

It was marketed to be a savage trial by multiple sources.

i mean is it actually savage just because it needs 24 people? i dont think standing inside a tower after a stack or spread is savage lvl.
now you could say this savage tier is pretty easy, but that would just mean the difficulty savage actually is isnt as high

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

You can stop repeating this lie, it doesn't make it any more true.

It was marketed to be a savage trial by multiple sources.

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You not liking what I'm saying doesn't make a lie, do get over yourself.

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Originally Posted by Asari5

i mean is it actually savage just because it needs 24 people? i dont think standing inside a tower after a stack or spread is savage lvl.
now you could say this savage tier is pretty easy, but that would just mean the difficulty savage actually is isnt as high

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It's definitely savage level. I dunno about like 4th floor savage but it's definitely above EX and more in line with 2nd floor. The difficulty is also higher because this seems to have many more "prog liars" due to the increase of players in each lockout. There's no barrier to entry at all so people without EX or savage experience can join.

If this were an 8-man fight it'd be EX level. But it has 24 people and getting all of them to coordinate makes it harder than EX for sure.

Honestly when they announce harder alliance raids, I thought it would be great I love alliance raids they are some of my favorite things to do. Instead of getting something like Orbonne before the nerfs and without echo we get another Savage raid just this time with 24 people instead of 8. Completely uninterested.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

Honestly when they announce harder alliance raids, I thought it would be great I love alliance raids they are some of my favorite things to do. Instead of getting something like Orbonne before the nerfs and without echo we get another Savage raid just this time with 24 people instead of 8. Completely uninterested.

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Well they advertised it as being savage difficulty so I dunno what to tell you.

As a someone who has never done a Savage, I had a giddy sense of excitement to try this raid.
I haven't cleared it but I've put 3 hours so far into trying to learn it because I want the rewards. I don't have a huge FC so I'm using PF for "BLIND/FRESH" runs to learn it, but so far I have found it to be a fun way to die.

We should rather talk about the state of Fight Design in FF14 in general with this Fight. They tried a "real" 24 Raid again and the only thing the came up with was lazy Bodychecks? Such innovation. And Ozma is getting wanked by the Streamer Crowd for that lazy work. The Future of FF14 does look indeed really grim if thats all what it needs to stroke the Devs Ego.

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Originally Posted by Keumjo

As a someone who has never done a Savage, I had a giddy sense of excitement to try this raid.
I haven't cleared it but I've put 3 hours so far into trying to learn it because I want the rewards. I don't have a huge FC so I'm using PF for "BLIND/FRESH" runs to learn it, but so far I have found it to be a fun way to die.

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What matters is you're having fun with it

There's not a lot you can do as a class without cleanse when you get the Doom debuff, but there are a couple of tricks to the patterns with aero and death.

Aero when it's immediate is usually easiest to just get knocked back to the corner. You can also knockback immune this. But I've found that this is better for stored aero because it's very easy to try to move from the blade attack to stored aero position and be *just* inside the circle and die.

Death you can avoid by going to a corner. It will pull you just outside the circle. Then you can stay out to avoid the debuff and move in when you need to for the donut. This can be tricky with immediate death so that's another good one to knockback immune if possible.

That phase isn't really out of the range of sprout raiders. Those are pretty standard mechanics you might see.

I do agree with the 24 man body check, though. Even if it is Savage level, that's probably something they wanted to reconsider once you get to this number of cats you have to keep in line.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

it was only confirmed to be savage at the very last minute in a passing remark by mr ozma. it was never advertised as such on the keynotes. and the majority of the community agrees its a far to heavy ask of the party finder. i don't understand why everything needs to be baby's first dungeon or "ill give you special cells" what we wanted was BA level content. what we've got is another delubrum reginae savage

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I'm sorry you haven't noticed, but they've been talking about wanting to create more challenging content in the game for a while.

I really wanted to do it, but depending on so many others to do everything right and to react if things go wrong, kill every joy. I just cant learn with the constant fear of wiping anyways, focusing on my stuff to get a feel for it, only to realize someone brought a flare to our stacks, or A is dead and the cloud charges her beams, finally reaching part two only to isnta wipe - on part two progress groups.

On top of that theres an enrange as well, right? Either do one shot mechanics or enrage, stop doing both!



Instead of wasting any more time with that horrible raid, i started teaching my wife the ex trial, we went for a "blind, no guides!" party and i roughly told her what to do when she asked, but mostly she was fine (unlike oh healers lettin us die lol)
we got barely over meteors, yet ive had more fun in that 90 min then with hours of wiping to cloud.


Again, the mechanics arent hard, the scaling is. Its no longer me vs maybe 1-2 bad players and the boss, its me vs 6-12 bad players vs the boss. If there at least were savespots, or the doom debuffs slightly longer so i dont end up with an dead party...

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

Honestly when they announce harder alliance raids, I thought it would be great I love alliance raids they are some of my favorite things to do. Instead of getting something like Orbonne before the nerfs and without echo we get another Savage raid just this time with 24 people instead of 8. Completely uninterested.

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I was hoping for something like an Alliance Raid version of the Unreal trials

Most importantly something with breaks and savespots...

o/ bumping my own thread here a little but some mechanics i want to bring attention to are a little controller unfriendly. those are the portal and also the doom debuff only having 4scs. controller players cant use mouse to target either. so they cant really heal ppl in other alliances which is going to result in them saying "your griefing" trust me as a tank im frequently warped into weird places where another alliance sage has had to heal me and cant because he plays controller. The enrage timer is also wild. i think 730 is ACTUALLY needed to make sure u dont enrage with the average PF group because of mistakes. we had 1 run with 2 death and hit enrage. its really quite rough which just leads to more skilled players attacking weaker ones for low DPS. can we nerf some of this please. Even when i did shiva savage as current content it was nowhere near this bad. The hands also have Snapshot mechanics which, im going to be real here. why are we still using snapshot mechanics when blundervil already showed the servers for this game are horrible... can yoshi{P and mr ozma please consider a nerf for this in future

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Originally Posted by NamiRocket

I'm sorry you haven't noticed, but they've been talking about wanting to create more challenging content in the game for a while.

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I don't think anybody thought they would release something like this though. if the community had known from the start it would be this rough they'd have rioted on the forums for it to never release.

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Originally Posted by FuturePastNow

I was hoping for something like an Alliance Raid version of the Unreal trials

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A lot of us were hoping for Echoes of Vana'diel Extreme/Unreal.

Massive disappointment when they showcased a new Trial instead.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

The enrage timer is also wild. i think 730 is ACTUALLY needed to make sure u dont enrage with the average PF group because of mistakes. we had 1 run with 2 death and hit enrage. its really quite rough which just leads to more skilled players attacking weaker ones for low DPS. can we nerf some of this please

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The enrager timer is very generous (above 11mins I think). If there were only two deaths and you reach enrage, I think all of your players were perfoming extremely badly. Most of the time, I'm clearing with 5-6 deaths without seeing enrage. When I'm seeing it, it's after seeing one entire alliance and more players being wiped out of the raid (What I meant here is, one entire alliance and an other half being dead at the same time. Too long to recover without LB heal and will ensure enrage. Not ~10 deaths throughout the whole fight, which is recoverable). Most of PF players are not tryharders, they're average. The chaotic raid has problems, but I don't think these are ones
I don't want to be mean, but if you're not, or almost 730 by now, it's a little sad. You can hit this iLVL with tomestone gear, no need to clear savage, especially when Chaotic drop 730iLVL gear

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Originally Posted by Wawaya

The enrager timer is very generous (above 11mins I think). If there were only two deaths and you reach enrage, I think all of your players were perfoming extremely badly. Most of the time, I'm clearing with 5-6 deaths without seeing enrage. When I'm seeing it, it's after seeing one entire alliance and more players being wiped out of the raid. Most of PF players are not tryharders, they're average. The chaotic raid has problems, but I don't think these are ones
I don't want to be mean, but if you're not, or almost 730 by now, it's a little sad. You can hit this iLVL with tomestone gear, no need to clear savage, especially when Chaotic drop 730iLVL gear

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i am 730 on every job before this content came out. The alliance runs i do i cannot see a players dps of course because in game there is simply no way to do that. but the fact this content is 24 people and you yourself hit enrage after only 6 deaths ( thats 3 wipes per party for the entire fight which btw will be all of the casters if a few towers are missed) is even less generous than a current tier final floor savage. my runs of wicked thunder have up to 6 deaths and we can still clear and skip ion cluster II.

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Most of PF players are not tryharders, they're average

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no, not when it comes to chaotic.

If they're not going to design the content for the ilv they advertise then they really should make Bis ilv gear more obtainable before content like this drops.
I truly do not understand why the normal alliance raid set cant be 730 as well, or why the weapon upgrade from M3S couldn't have also come availbe from coins in 7.1

Gearing in this game is boring and exists to be a ticket to ride other content, the savage tier got old months ago no reason to keep it on a pedestal after one patch.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

i am 730 on every job before this content came out. The alliance runs i do i cannot see a players dps of course because in game there is simply no way to do that. but the fact this content is 24 people and you yourself hit enrage after only 6 deaths ( thats 3 wipes per party for the entire fight which btw will be all of the casters if a few towers are missed) is even less generous than a current tier final floor savage. my runs of wicked thunder have up to 6 deaths and we can still clear and skip ion cluster II.



no, not when it comes to chaotic.

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No, I've said I'm not even hitting enrage with 5-6 deaths, far from it. I have a lot of kills now, all done in Party Finder. I had a run with ~15 deaths, last thing the boss was casting before dying was Aero. That's why I don't think the dps check is that hard with more or less comptent players, that are quick enough to raise. I think the problem comes from people being on the ground for way too long , or too many people on the ground at the same time, that's always what's happening when I'm seeing enrage with less deaths than this example. We have to keep in mind that there are also Damage Down. If a lot of players are getting hit by them, surely the global dps is going to be low and chances of seeing enrage increases. We can't just face roll every mechanics and act surprised when seeing enrage, it's still a savage like fight
The mentality must be different depending on data centers and servers, but I've hardly see tryharders there. It's always silent disband if it goes wrong
I'll add this: While I don't doubt your claim of seeing enrage with only two deaths, it seems odd to me. I can see that some people were generous enough to upload combat logs on the Forbidden website, so I can see what happened in my own runs. One had 21 deaths, 42 damage down, and the last thing the boss was casting before dying was Flare, so not long before enrage. 5-6 deaths is maybe killing the boss in 10mins

Might work for many, but nerfing this wouldn't win for me. The reward needs to be good enough to be worth enduring trying clearonce. Then I'll do it more if there is also to try farming. And I don't see how you can just 'nerf' this without switching off P2, at which point you've hollowed it out. You've killed it.
Nah nerfing is a rebalancing. This is beyond some mere tuning of the numbers, and a redesign will upset many.
Let's just hope the explorer region casual content is also 'engaging', and doesn't just treat casuals like mindless mash A grinders. Because that's not BATTLE content, so it's not content. (Slaping a savage on the end of brain dead, wild just be another chaotic)
Actually I dint even know what Explorer is. It's that like Bozja?

From complaining about high gear requirements on pf to pushing it themselves. What happened to never having seen enrage OP?

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Originally Posted by MisterNublet

A lot of us were hoping for Echoes of Vana'diel Extreme/Unreal.

Massive disappointment when they showcased a new Trial instead.

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I was expecting a hard mode version of the Ark Angels... like what FFXI has (Divine Might). It was the first thing I thought of when I heard FFXI alliance raid + new hard mode alliance raid content
Would have been fairly easy to make, timely, and thematic. Instead they chose to make a bunch of references to a Savage fight, pretty bizarre

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Originally Posted by Saraide

From complaining about high gear requirements on pf to pushing it themselves. What happened to never having seen enrage OP?

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Citation needed

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

Citation needed

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here: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6647178

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That's not mistakes, those are dps stats I'm just a trash gnb player. This is the case everywhere I play it. I is not my main class and i only play it to get easier ques
Dps =/= mecanic execution

Again I firmly disagree here that low dps is griefing because I have never not cleared from dps and the game isn't trying to enforce I do this much dps to enter the raid. I am not not "being avoided" u need to explain where u got that from. I also do not believe that failing mecanics is "griefing" because then everyone who ever makes mistakes in life is griefing everyone else and this is not how life works. I don't care that it's ur sub ur not entitled to belittle and bully people because of your perceived entitlement to a certain experience in pug content

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Added emphasis by me. What happened to never having not cleared from lack of dps?

I've heard complaints from healers on controller to struggle healing non-party members, a friend of mine also uses controller and thinks the hand mechanic is janky.
For me I think the teleporter is really awful on Legacy controls, I don't mind the hand but ugh...

I think the swap is unnecessary...some damage is abit too overstated (imo) from the eye lasers...

But all in all I doubt it'll be nerfed. I can't imagine this fight being for ilv710 because even ilv725 really hurts

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Originally Posted by ExiaKuromonji

Well they advertised it as being savage difficulty so I dunno what to tell you.

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It wasnt so much the difficulty being the problem as it was the fact it's just another boss in an arena. So innovative.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

or why the weapon upgrade from M3S couldn't have also come availbe from coins in 7.1

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That would hurt the ego and feelings of the average endgame raider! They must feel like their time was well spent.

i had an awesome group today. ten kills in a row without a single wipe. it was a blast

like nine of these kille were during bonustime though and i have to say the bonus sucks. everytime just two chests. thats it.
the materia bonus was an average of one per kill (sometimes 0. are you kidding me?) .... wow...

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

It wasnt so much the difficulty being the problem as it was the fact it's just another boss in an arena. So innovative.

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Yeah it's a bit of a separate issue but I can agree that "boss in a room" has gotten a bit old. We used to have trash in 8-man raid content too but players complained (I think) and now it's gone.

It's pretty hard to have an immersive experience of storming a large area like pretty much all of the alliance raids when there's no trash or journey to the boss. But there's a few issues with trash in this game in general:

• Trash mobs in themselves have just been "round up and AoE down". I can't speak for current expacs but at least in Classic WoW, the trash was as hard and in same cases harder than the boss and even somewhat had a solution for the next point...
  The game has no reward system that would be appropriate to put on trash mobs. There's no crafting materials they could put in a Chaotic raid and not piss people off who don't wanna do it. There's no gear to really gain as that's on the boss and the overly simplified stat system leaves for almost no variation in gearing. And it's pretty obvious that cosmetics are also not liked in Chaotic raid.

Whenever I try to farm this content, I end up waiting for the PF to be refilled instead of - well clearing the content.
It's really bummer, some people sneak into farm parties without 100% confidence or enough experience. The c4u parties are nice, but they truly are ruining PF experience. It's unbearable at some point, people leave instantly.

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

Whenever I try to farm this content, I end up waiting for the PF to be refilled instead of - well clearing the content.
It's really bummer, some people sneak into farm parties without 100% confidence or enough experience. The c4u parties are nice, but they truly are ruining PF experience. It's unbearable at some point, people leave instantly.

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Helps to build a little community you trust. But I've seen to many farm groups deteriorating into bickering or sm1 making small but sadly critical mistakes ( it's the nature of this games fight design that one person destroys the raid) which then results in half leaving and everyone blacklisting eachother. This content blew up ppl blacklisting each other for just asking to adjust or making little mistakes.


Idk who is at fault, the community or the game... or both?

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

Idk who is at fault, the community or the game... or both?

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The community