With Apologies to Sena Bryer

That's what happens when your entire personality is your gender, you become toxic and attract toxicity.

One look at Sena's twitter says enough as to why this is happening to her.

Do I condone it ? Nah

But you reap what you sow.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

But I agree with the poster above, this should go to the police, rather than what she asked for - the "industry" to drop what they are doing and rally behind her.

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See this bit right here is exactly why I don't think anything actually happened. VA showed no evidence, which just screams "Give me Attention and Support", cause she's probably going to loss current and future prospects based off this performance and how overall unlikeable she has been.

But I don't believe anyone unless they come with actual evidence, and she has provided none.

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Originally Posted by Alchemii

See this bit right here is exactly why I don't think anything actually happened. VA showed no evidence, which just screams "Give me Attention and Support", cause she's probably going to loss current and future prospects based off this performance and how overall unlikeable she has been.

But I don't believe anyone unless they come with actual evidence, and she has provided none.

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I had the same feeling - that she was using this to try to get a publicity campaign by having tons of voice actors talk about her. Just seems like using victimhood for advantage which is on theme for her.

That said, given how gamers can act - I absolutely find it believable at least one person has decided to threaten her while protected by anonymity.

me when a trans person airs her grievances publicly and i take it as a call to action and a personal attack on myself to whine about
im sure ppl have said VILE things to her. ive seen the kind of things people say just on here. she has a right to be upset. a lot of valid criticisms are thrown out as soon as you bring her identity into it, hope this helps!

anyways thats my 2 cents back to like idk caring about something useful like going outside and talking to normal people in real life, u guys should try it !!!!!! ^_^

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Originally Posted by poooman

me when a trans person airs her grievances publicly and i take it as a call to action and a personal attack on myself to whine about
im sure ppl have said VILE things to her. ive seen the kind of things people say just on here. she has a right to be upset. a lot of valid criticisms are thrown out as soon as you bring her identity into it, hope this helps!

anyways thats my 2 cents back to like idk caring about something useful like going outside and talking to normal people in real life, u guys should try it !!!!!! ^_^

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So just like all of the valid criticism that she calls transphobia every single time ?

Wow...just..oi...

I'll say this: Threatening people is never okay. However, we do have a right to criticize a performance constructively and with respect. Do I hate Wuk? Not to the point that some do, I wish they'd reel her back and let other characters breathe. I wish they'd go back and let Sena re-record certain lines to give them that emotional impact and oomph needed. I however do not hate her, and I hope she knows not everyone is wanting to go to super extremes. If anything, reel Wuk Lamat back in the patches, let her get more experience in voicing and going through takes after takes if needed.

Please people, chill, relax. There's no need to go off the deep end, you know?

I commented that Sena cannot show evidence because it may disrupt the police investigation, and people are using my comment to say she should show evidence? If somebody sent you a death threat, would you let the police wait because internet strangers need to see it first? No, duh.
Calm the hell down and let her deal with the problem without you breathing down her neck because you wanna see the juicy death threats.

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Originally Posted by Picothea

I commented that Sena cannot show evidence because it may disrupt the police investigation, and people are using my comment to say she should show evidence? If somebody sent you a death threat, would you let the police wait because internet strangers need to see it first? No, duh.
Calm the hell down and let her deal with the problem without you breathing down her neck because you wanna see the juicy death threats.

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She posted it on twitter buddy. She made it public, either show evidence or keep it to yourself.

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

I think the issue is the fact that the 'story-first MMO' somehow managed to bungle the story--you don't see this kind of stink being stunk in WoW, for example. And they not only bungled the story, but stapled our character to a new face that many have deemed insufferable for a variety of reasons.

I agree that people should play games that they enjoy, but 'if you don't like it find something else' has always been a toxic and unhelpful rebuttal to criticism.

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Honestly I don't play wow and never did, and takign in other MMORPG's and the likes in comparison to this one or others, make a very little sense, especially why did one leave that one in the first place to start complaining about this one and wanting to make it be like the one MMO, one has left to begin with make absolutely no sense at all.

Story is just a gate you need to pass to unlock the content, and story has very little to do with the actual MMO's however it yet still is a factor of the NPC based story lines, but in the end, it is the content that people do after the story that matter the most, and that involves playing the game with other players, which is where the Roleplay comes in, even if am strictly anti RP... then you put on the mantle for just doing simple things as doing daily roulettes or taking part in Ex Trials, Treasure maps, Savage, fates or whatever else content that requires you to interact with other players of where doing the content content with other players is optional.

And that is the end of the story, whenever it get to it.

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Originally Posted by Picothea

I commented that Sena cannot show evidence because it may disrupt the police investigation, and people are using my comment to say she should show evidence? If somebody sent you a death threat, would you let the police wait because internet strangers need to see it first? No, duh.
Calm the hell down and let her deal with the problem without you breathing down her neck because you wanna see the juicy death threats.

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Why are you so fixated on trying to get people to blindly believe her? If they believe her, that's fine. If they doubt her/don't believe her, that's fine. No one's breathing down her neck here, stop exaggerating.

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Originally Posted by SophiaDL

She posted it on twitter buddy. She made it public, either show evidence or keep it to yourself.

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No she didn't. She said she'd received death threats, but that doesn't entitle you to see footage of it. Again, reporting it to the police is more important than showing it to you. Who are you to her?

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Originally Posted by Rueby

Why are you so fixated on trying to get people to blindly believe her? If they believe her, that's fine. If they doubt her/don't believe her, that's fine. No one's breathing down her neck here, stop exaggerating.

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See my other comment for an easy example of someone breathing down her neck to publicly share the death threats.

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Originally Posted by Picothea

No she didn't. She said she'd received death threats, but that doesn't entitle you to see footage of it. Again, reporting it to the police is more important than showing it to you. Who are you to her?

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The point went right over your head

bad faith galore lmao, anyways moving on

Why is this such a big deal. Before all of these threads and posts I had no idea who Sena Bryer even was much less what her gender identity was. The VA for Wuk was just a bad VA to me and nothing more.

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Originally Posted by Swordsman

Why is this such a big deal. Before all of these threads and posts I had no idea who Sena Bryer even was much less what her gender identity was. The VA for Wuk was just a bad VA to me and nothing more.

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These threads always receive many comments making personal attacks against her. Some in this one are even implying the death threats against her are just reaping what she's sowing. People have a lot of hate they want to make everyone else's problem.

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Originally Posted by Picothea

No she didn't. She said she'd received death threats, but that doesn't entitle you to see footage of it. Again, reporting it to the police is more important than showing it to you. Who are you to her?

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But...she stomped her feet and said that her industry should be rallying behind her. Over a death threat no one has seen or heard about before then.

Also comparing herself to an Olympian who has been under intense global scrutiny is a bit laughable.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

But...she stomped her feet and said that her industry should be rallying behind her. Over a death threat no one has seen or heard about before then.

Also comparing herself to an Olympian who has been under intense global scrutiny is a bit laughable.

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And these points matter why? It's not the death threats alone that should give someone cause to stand by her. I saw that post, there's enough public hate that commenters were calling her slurs right off the bat. Are you not satisfied?

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Originally Posted by SophiaDL

So just like all of the valid criticism that she calls transphobia every single time ?

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"how dare you say we piss on the poor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Voice actress bad. Updoots to the left. Beep boop I am very smart for parroting the Content Creators' latest take.

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Originally Posted by Antharaes

You need to get your facts straight and not post a part of a conversation to fit your narrative.

Thanks to @Karious, for posting the convo.
https://i.imgur.com/oQ6OL0n.png

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This goes to show how important context can be, cause that third tweet reeks of misogyny. yikes!

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Originally Posted by Picothea

And these points matter why? It's not the death threats alone that should give someone cause to stand by her. I saw that post, there's enough public hate that commenters were calling her slurs right off the bat. Are you not satisfied?

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No. I find her victimhood envy and her "why isn't everyone surrounding MEEE!" distasteful.

The reality is that the vile people who threaten and harass people exist far beyond the scope of "Ohmahgawd, forums, stop please", and while I respect the idea that it should be reinforced that this kind of behaviour is unacceptable, the forums are, quite likely, not to blame.

Thread titles are rarely addressed to her directly, and while her name's probably been brought up in most Wuk discussions it was usually to present criticism or a point. Could a bad agent come by and use that to harass her? Absolutely. But that information is free for everyone to gather, discuss and is easy to find.

At the end of the day, Sena's job as a VA is inherently tied to her connections and online presence (not discussing whether that's a good or bad thing) and while I want to be understanding that she almost needs to be terminally online, the fact is that the inflammatory way she has to discuss certain topics is going to inevitably lead to hateful people just looking for any ammunition to justify their acts. She doesn't deserve this, but I hope she keeps her known presence (at least) more professional in the future, if only for her safety.

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Originally Posted by MartinFreeman

Though the internet has many bad people on it, and I will not doubt that someone did send at least one threat of some kind...let us be honest, I am pretty sure the voice actor did not get a wave of threats as they claimed. Jullie Smollet all over again.

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wow. just wow

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Originally Posted by Picothea

These threads always receive many comments making personal attacks against her. Some in this one are even implying the death threats against her are just reaping what she's sowing. People have a lot of hate they want to make everyone else's problem.

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Well damn, this thread ain't gonna last long then. From what I've seen in the past on these forums is threads that devolve into endless sociopolitical debates end up being deleted anyways lol.

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Originally Posted by PorxiesRCute

Voice actress bad. Updoots to the left. Beep boop I am very smart for parroting the Content Creators' latest take.

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The whole "The people are just parroting the content creators latest take" as your point is kinda parroting what other people have said...

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Originally Posted by Swordsman

Well damn, this thread ain't gonna last long then. From what I've seen in the past on these forums is threads that devolve into endless sociopolitical debates end up being deleted anyways lol.

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Yeah it’s kinda sad that some people from both sites can’t have decent human conversations anymore. Everything devolves into this poop throwing contest we’re both sites try to smear each other in a bad light.

I found DT story super mega meh boring and the English voice acting from the character that was in the limelight for 90 % of the story wasn’t good enough and had no emotional reach and I for myself didn’t care the VA was trans and only after finding out I’m actually more curious if the choice was DEI or a friend hiring this person because any decent voice director worth his salt would take 200 % another voice actor after hearing voice clips were the VA has to shout or put emotions into the character and sentences.

This person just being a drama llama

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Originally Posted by Swordsman

Why is this such a big deal. Before all of these threads and posts I had no idea who Sena Bryer even was much less what her gender identity was. The VA for Wuk was just a bad VA to me and nothing more.

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Because both sites have people that are arseholes. You have the transphobic critics that use slurs and the you have the defender site that calls all critics transphobic even if it was valid criticism. And then you have decent humans on both sides arguing over these hyper cases and ripping each other apart. It’s a sad state of affairs

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

I think whoever's the VA director for Dawntrail is the one who dropped the ball for this expansion

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Probably because the seasoned, senior folks are all busy working on the mystery third project and they just let some random intern or super junior dev manage the VAs.

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Originally Posted by Picothea

No she didn't. She said she'd received death threats, but that doesn't entitle you to see footage of it. Again, reporting it to the police is more important than showing it to you. Who are you to her?

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I'm sure you'll ignore and twist this to fit your narrative as you've been doing all thread but,
Her saying she's received death threats is making it public. And her whole response was replying to someone with actual criticism about her character. Nothing to do with anything she's spouting about.

Death threats are never ok but at the same time, people are going to care less when it's from someone who constantly claims to be the victim in scenarios when she isn't even the topic.
Cry about everything all the time and people won't care once it's a real problem.

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Originally Posted by Picothea

Bringing attention to the toxicity in this forum is warranted. It's not the entirety or a majority of the community that's hateful, but it's enough to be noticed on multiple platforms, including this one. In this very thread there are users who have made personal and discriminatory attacks against Sena Bryer, and I'm sure the other usual suspects will soon turn up to talk about how she is "misgendering [herself]" like that makes hatred valid.

I get your frustration in seeing posts about this, but the hate is very much present, and I'm okay with bringing up the problem until the moderators do something about the troublemakers.

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Except now every legitimate criticism is buried and instead of the discussing the game we're discussing this stupid drama for nearly two thirds of the year at this point.

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Originally Posted by Swordsman

Why is this such a big deal. Before all of these threads and posts I had no idea who Sena Bryer even was much less what her gender identity was. The VA for Wuk was just a bad VA to me and nothing more.

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100% this lmao.

You can clearly tell who needs to log off Twitter in these threads.

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

I'm sure you'll ignore and twist this to fit your narrative as you've been doing all thread but,
Her saying she's received death threats is making it public. And her whole response was replying to someone with actual criticism about her character. Nothing to do with anything she's spouting about.

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To play Devil's Advocate ... Criticism can be harassment, especially if the one on the receiving end didn't ask for it and is receiving a lot of it. I 100% that Sena feels like this is harassment.

Unfortunately, Voice Acting is an art form. Every time someone voices anything, people will form opinions, and they will share these opinions, especially if they paid for it. This issue isn't unique to Sena, a lot of people in Media have these knee-jerk reactions nowadays, but coming out as a victim never works and I don't know why so many go that route. If she had an honest heart-to-heart, discussing maybe the development and her struggles with the role, people would probably be kinder to her. It wouldn't fix everything, but at least you wouldn't have people claim she's lying or earned it.

I think giving death threats are horrible and so is doxxing but Sena constantly playing victim and going on toxic rants about how cisgendered white woman should step down and be blacklisted from voice acting or playing certain roles and complaining how people find cisgendered woman cute or claiming she is being harassed and getting death threats with no proof while replying to a valid criticism of her performance things like that are just going to keep giving hateful people more ammunition to harass. I think she needs to take a break from social media and not keep posting the things that she has been posting because not only will she be putting herself at risk of not being hired in future projects but also at risk of being fired and people getting more nasty towards her.

There is way too much drama associated with this person... I don't come to the forums to read about terminally online social media drama.

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Originally Posted by Mapleine

There is way too much drama associated with this person... I don't come to the forums to read about terminally online social media drama.

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The drama seems to be happening on twitter and then people bring it here. World would be a better place if Twitter was nuked from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

https://imgur.com/Z1PBwvF.png

I didn't even know who Wuk Lemats english VA was MtF trans until I saw I saw a video on Youtube about it. This was just before Dawntrail released and after Wuk Lemat was introduced in 6.55. Then I found another video a bit later still before DT came out, and posted a comment about Wuk Lemat's English VA. You can find that here, it's the highlighted reply : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kghL...U2yA2u_4W8JZf0

Then Dawntrail came out and after going through the story all I had to say was : "I think the English VA did fine. Not the best performance, but not bad overall. I say a 7/10. The only real issue I had with her performance was 2 things : The accent seemed too hard forced, but i'm not an expert on what you would call an authentic accent for that area. The other was her emotion. When she screamed and yelled, it sounded very... muted. This is probably because the voice actress is MtF trans. She probably had issues hitting that higher volume, while keeping a more feminine pitch and tone. Other than that, I didn't have a problem." (Sorry, I don't have a link to where I first posted that, the thread that was posted on got deleted.)

I still got called a bigot a couple times and hated on for even MENTIONING Sena was MtF trans. Even though what I said was more along the lines of saying "I understand why". Not blaming her, not shaming her, not hating on her for it. If anything, I gave a good reason as to why her performance fell a little flat. I was understanding and not in a "pity" way, just understanding that it was really hard for her or downright impossible. I didn't expect perfection, and I still maintain Sena did alright, minus a few points. It just goes to show, sometimes you can't even be fair sometimes. Show ANY criticism when it comes to some overzealous activist, LEGBTQ++, ect. You will always have those that are rabid, and either you're 100% for, or 100% against. There is no middle ground with a minority of very angry and vocal activist, LGBTQ++, ect. people.

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Originally Posted by Picothea

No she didn't. She said she'd received death threats, but that doesn't entitle you to see footage of it. Again, reporting it to the police is more important than showing it to you. Who are you to her?

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I could accuse you of sending me death threats and make a huge stink about it on twitter. By your logic, everyone in this thread should just believe me right? After all, you can't ask the "victim" to provide evidence of their accusations. Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? That's because it is. If she didn't care about the publicity, then there's no reason to even go on twitter and mention it.

Now here's the real rub. Wanna know who else received death threats? Practically every big named content creator for this game. Xeno literally has a lawsuit he's been talking about. Somehow, he was still able to share proof of his accusations despite having on ongoing legal battle. Put bluntly, Sena could show a handful of tweets with named redacted and that solves everything. Is she obligated to do so? Of course not. But neither she nor anyone else should expect to be believed without showing some measure of proof. Even if that seems to be the trend nowadays.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

I could accuse you of sending me death threats and make a huge stink about it on twitter. By your logic, everyone in this thread should just believe me right? After all, you can't ask the "victim" to provide evidence of their accusations. Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? That's because it is. If she didn't care about the publicity, then there's no reason to even go on twitter and mention it.

Now here's the real rub. Wanna know who else received death threats? Practically every big named content creator for this game. Xeno literally has a lawsuit he's been talking about. Somehow, he was still able to share proof of his accusations despite having on ongoing legal battle. Put bluntly, Sena could show a handful of tweets with named redacted and that solves everything. Is she obligated to do so? Of course not. But neither she nor anyone else should expect to be believed without showing some measure of proof. Even if that seems to be the trend nowadays.

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You've changed the context.

You switched the idea from "I've been attacked" to "you attacked me" and are trying to conflate the two when they are actually drastically different things to say.

The former is a way of indicating distress and a desire for support. The latter is an accusation that someone else has wronged you.

You're arguing dishonestly and doing a poor job at it.