Yoshi P - Your next live letter, DT msq and the damage to the brand

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Originally Posted by Nestama

I mean, there are people who were fine with and even loved the expansions story, though. Does their opinion not matter as much as those who did not like/hated the expansions story?

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Where did I imply that their opinion doesn‘t matter?
If you read my other comments I actually do say that it is completely fine to like the story.

"Damage to the brand" is such an overblown exaggeration lol. It wasn't great, but it was better than both arr and stormblood. They also had an insanely tough act to follow after shb and ew, especially since they need to restart more or less. Also it's looking like we may get the best savage raid series in the game, along with the other massively improved content.

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Originally Posted by Zuccubus

"Damage to the brand" is such an overblown exaggeration lol. It wasn't great, but it was better than both arr and stormblood. They also had an insanely tough act to follow after shb and ew, especially since they need to restart more or less. Also it's looking like we may get the best savage raid series in the game, along with the other massively improved content.

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The lowest critic score since 1.0, the player base sharply divided, and coverage of the game has moved from almost universal praise to serious concern about its future. If this is not damage to the brand for you, then I am not sure if I can explain to you what damage to a brand looks like.

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Originally Posted by Eyrilona

The lowest critic score since 1.0, the player base sharply divided, and coverage of the game has moved from almost universal praise to serious concern about its future. If this is not damage to the brand for you, then I am not sure if I can explain to you what damage to a brand looks like.

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Let's be real, cuz Elden Ring Shadow of the Erdtree also had that issue, and its brand is doing completely fine.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

I don't get why your quota is one good deed per day.

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Hey go after the people who do none

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Originally Posted by Kranel_San

When they said they'll start a new 10-years long story, we definitely didn't expect them to redo 1.0 failure all over again.

I, for one, cannot wait for the HW period of this new story.

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it will take 2-3 expansions now to undig the grave they put the game in. I'm surprised we don't see posts about a classic endwalker server..

I mean... theyre going to celebrate a successful launch if anything. Whether or not folks like the story, its what we got for at least the rest of the expansion as its far too late for them to do a U turn. As for the expansion overall, lull story aside, if they continue with the decent content im more happy with it, we'll just see what the 24m raid, criterion, and field zone bring to the expansion.

What damage did this expansion do that other expansions haven't done at least once? You all on these forums are crazy. This was literally like an ARR 2 and being the beginning of whatever giant plot is next. Funny that I'm still playing now because the content still stays after the msq is fun, and there's patch things later to do, and all of those are fun. Some of Stormblood 's content made me actively not want to play and EW's patches were such a snooze fest.
People have rights to complain about the story, but "damage"? Lol

These kind of posts are honestly wild and only do more to prove the point on just how spoiled FFXIV players actually are. Y'all were so unbelievably spoiled with Shadowbringers story that you are treating DT's slow build up setting up another decade long story like they released a completely broken and buggy expansion or something.

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Originally Posted by Selova

you are treating DT's slow build up setting up another decade long story like they released a completely broken and buggy expansion or something.

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"It's get better after X hours" is not an excuse for bad content. And there is no building for the next story. The expansion zones will be like any other expansion zones and Wuk Lamat will be Lyse. It will be old content and probably the only thing we move forward with is the magic key and multi hyper space travel to other reflections. Meracydia probably will show up and will have a teleporter :)

And if they won't deviate from the template last 3 expansions were made we already can tell which patch gets which content, which patch has new combat/crafting gear, and so on. The game hasn't progressed much since Shadowbringers if at all.

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Originally Posted by Selova

These kind of posts are honestly wild and only do more to prove the point on just how spoiled FFXIV players actually are. Y'all were so unbelievably spoiled with Shadowbringers story that you are treating DT's slow build up setting up another decade long story like they released a completely broken and buggy expansion or something.

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It is over 30 hours long. I do not know if you are an anime watcher, but a typical series has 12-13 episodes of 24 minutes each. This is not a pilot episode, this is the runtime length of a show's whole first 5 seasons! Waving around the slow buildup argument that we shouldn't expect them to already be delivering something good and that they'll get to the good part of the story later is disingenuous.

Yoshi P doesn't need to make any statements and realistically what will happen going forward is they take player feedback and move the MSQ in a direction players want.
Yoshi P stated beforehand Dawntrail is a starting point, that they'd drop multiple things and see where player interest goes.
So judging by player feedback I imagine we won't be seeing much of Tuliyollal anymore, Wuk Lamat goes the way of Aymeric, Hien, and Lyse and only shows up occasionally in unvoiced roles providing backup with their armies.

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Originally Posted by Eyrilona

It is over 30 hours long. I do not know if you are an anime watcher, but a typical series has 12-13 episodes of 24 minutes each. This is not a pilot episode, this is the runtime length of a show's whole first 5 seasons! Waving around the slow buildup argument that we shouldn't expect them to already be delivering something good and that they'll get to the good part of the story later is disingenuous.

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I never mentioned anything about the actual quality of the story given how divisive it is between people, some people like it some don't. Regardless of how you personally feel towards DT's story claiming that it's somehow "damaging the brand" and how Yoshi P. needs to make some kind of PSA apologizing to the player base is honestly ridiculous. I refuse to believe anyone can sit there with a straight face and type up something that ludicrous.

- Questionable job balance
- no reason to play white mage in raids
- divisive story
- 2 new DPS
- normal content has friction once more
- raid content looks promising

Welcome back Stormblood

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Originally Posted by NishaSetsuya

- Questionable job balance
- no reason to play white mage in raids
- divisive story
- 2 new DPS
- normal content has friction once more
- raid content looks promising

Welcome back Stormblood

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I agree but I don't think that we will see Shadowbringers again

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Originally Posted by NishaSetsuya

- Questionable job balance
- no reason to play white mage in raids
- divisive story
- 2 new DPS
- normal content has friction once more
- raid content looks promising

Welcome back Stormblood

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Stormblood East part story wise was generally nice, it was the Ala Migho part the one that was done really dirty, plus the job design overall then was the best we have seen even if it wasnt perfect

DT not only has a garbage story from start to end with some brief sparks that are actually good sprinkled here and there but also the job design is basically ShB 3.0, only the fight design as improved which wasnt that hard considering how bad it was before

Low stakes are not excuses for such level of mediocrity in the storytelling. Heavensward was basically a Dragon-human conflict reduced just to Ishgard (Tural is basically the entire American continent) and they made one of the best stories, plus ARR had to basically introduce people to the entire setting and despite having a "simple" story it was reasonably well done. Today it feels kinda bad because the gameplay at low levels is garbage with everyone using just a few skills due to everything locked until higher levels

Yoshi P isn't going to say anything aside from a blanket "we're responding to feedback". I'm not sure what people are expecting, major corporations generally aren't like "sorry you guys hate our story, our bad, we'll do better".

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Originally Posted by Volgia

That's not damage, that's just divisive opinions, and the MSQ isn't the only measure of an expansion. Endwalker had a good story, and it was to me the worst expansion contentwise. I almost didn't get Dawntrail because I thought we would have more of the same. Did people look back at Stormblood and Lyse and say "will Yoshi-P please address the irreparable damage this expansion has given the FF brand?"

Like I'm having a blast playing through Dawntrail, especially looking forward the raid scene next month.

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Having a blast doing the same rehashed content (with less content and less focused on combat/actions etc) since HW?

My sides.

They probably won't address the story directly.

The story is not good, but it is not that bad where they need to directly address it. They'll just see what people liked, what they didn't like and go from there. [Edit: at most, they'll comment vaguely on how they overestimated the reception of Wuk Lamat, and thought she would be a well-liked character]

I know the story matters, but honestly what matters more is the content going forward, as that is what will give a lot of people staying power, and it is what people will be spending the majority of their time doing.

Not saying the story isn't important, but it isn't the most important factor IMO.

The story is fine.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

DT being "The start of a new story arc" doesn't justify badly written characters and badly written stories.

The entire first half of the expansion, the entire rite of succession thing should be entirely rewritten and replaced as there is no reason for the WoL to take part in it, and they're barely even in the story to begin with.

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Sadly, this is a major L take. The first half of the story was great, and exactly what we were told we are getting. The second half is good too, but the way they transitioned wasn't very great , and that caused a major disconnect. As mentioned by other players on many threads, you cannot judge the story after only reading the first chapter of it. The introductions and world building are done now, as always happens in the main story for every expansion. If people judged an expansion by its leveling msq, then shb would be the worst expansion by lightyears, but nobody bashes it now that the story is done, and all the content is released and polished.

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Originally Posted by 1313

Sadly, this is a major L take. The first half of the story was great, and exactly what we were told we are getting. The second half is good too, but the way they transitioned wasn't very great , and that caused a major disconnect. As mentioned by other players on many threads, you cannot judge the story after only reading the first chapter of it. The introductions and world building are done now, as always happens in the main story for every expansion. If people judged an expansion by its leveling msq, then shb would be the worst expansion by lightyears, but nobody bashes it now that the story is done, and all the content is released and polished.

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What did you think about how Alphinaud reacted to the system of governments of both the nations. Did you enjoy hearing yshtolas inquisitive musings about the device allowing inter shard travel? What did you think about alisae using a porxie to help the kid suffering from levin sickness? Or were you wondering where these moments were? Because I sure as hell was. Characters had nothing to say. Every scene just seemed to revolve around Wuk Lumat. She drowned everything else out. That's my major complaint. Shadowbringers in contrast allowed each character to contribute based on their own expertise and experience.

I personally LOVED not being the center of attention, being barraged with a massive overdose of brown nosers and excessive praise for pushing my 123 combo and avoiding the dumb like i already do all day every day anyway. It was nice to be the reason Wuk succeeded, but being in the shadows for it. That was perfect for me.

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Originally Posted by 1313

Sadly, this is a major L take. The first half of the story was great, and exactly what we were told we are getting. The second half is good too, but the way they transitioned wasn't very great , and that caused a major disconnect. As mentioned by other players on many threads, you cannot judge the story after only reading the first chapter of it. The introductions and world building are done now, as always happens in the main story for every expansion. If people judged an expansion by its leveling msq, then shb would be the worst expansion by lightyears, but nobody bashes it now that the story is done, and all the content is released and polished.

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Even the base story of Shb was praised. Why do you think people love Emet Selch so much?
He wasn't in the patches.
The patches were only the strawberry on the story cake.

Do you mean Stormblood by any chance?

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Originally Posted by 1313

I personally LOVED not being the center of attention, being barraged with a massive overdose of brown nosers and excessive praise for pushing my 123 combo and avoiding the dumb like i already do all day every day anyway. It was nice to be the reason Wuk succeeded, but being in the shadows for it. That was perfect for me.

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The determining factor of wither or not you enjoy Dawntrail's story is if you like the experience of being a 'Goon'.

In Dawntrail, Wuk Lamat is the 'Boss' and you are the enforcer.

https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.m7ZgI1...pid=ImgDetMain

PS: IT'S THE BAT!

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

Having a blast doing the same rehashed content (with less content and less focused on combat/actions etc) since HW?

My sides.

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Huh? Okay.

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Originally Posted by Xellith

What did you think about how Alphinaud reacted to the system of governments of both the nations. Did you enjoy hearing yshtolas inquisitive musings about the device allowing inter shard travel? What did you think about alisae using a porxie to help the kid suffering from levin sickness? Or were you wondering where these moments were? Because I sure as hell was. Characters had nothing to say. Every scene just seemed to revolve around Wuk Lumat. She drowned everything else out. That's my major complaint. Shadowbringers in contrast allowed each character to contribute based on their own expertise and experience.

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Us not having anything to say about the kid with levin sickness was especially baffling because we have an immediate and obvious cure and just... don't bring it up for some reason?

If you're expecting them to like, go back and rewrite the DT msq or fire the writing team and replace them or something, be ready to be disappointed.

Even if some people really hated the story this is far from like, a 1.0 disaster where they'll have to do a drastic overhaul. Especially since the actual content seems to be much better received so far. (Dungeons, trials, raids etc.)

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Originally Posted by Xellith

What did you think about how Alphinaud reacted to the system of governments of both the nations. Did you enjoy hearing yshtolas inquisitive musings about the device allowing inter shard travel? What did you think about alisae using a porxie to help the kid suffering from levin sickness? Or were you wondering where these moments were? Because I sure as hell was. Characters had nothing to say. Every scene just seemed to revolve around Wuk Lumat. She drowned everything else out. That's my major complaint. Shadowbringers in contrast allowed each character to contribute based on their own expertise and experience.

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Yeah, while I still overall enjoyed going through the msq, it definitely had issues. The twins having nothing interesting or meaningful to do or say besides filling in trust slots being one of them. The scions largely felt tacked on. Even Krile until the late game.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Us not having anything to say about the kid with levin sickness was especially baffling because we have an immediate and obvious cure and just... don't bring it up for some reason?

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His soul was ripe for harvesting, and to be rebundled into a soul cell for consumption.

i like the story its pretty cool

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Us not having anything to say about the kid with levin sickness was especially baffling because we have an immediate and obvious cure and just... don't bring it up for some reason?

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We even have a possible solution for the failing crops outside of solution 9. We specifically figured out that some areas have a tendancy to be aspected to one particular element need certain crops in order to survive (The mamool ja home) and we just.. never say anything about it. (Its possible that it was even the same element, and thus the same crops would work. But I forget)

Story wasnt that bad. Over reacting dont you think. If anything the real criticism should be the current job design. Encounter design is good and story is passable. However the monk problems, BLM problems, DRK and GNB dash problems show that there was an extreme oversight not only in media tour but overall issues in job balance and is showing that adding a new job every expansion is slowly hurting every existing job in the game.

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Originally Posted by Xellith

We even have a possible solution for the failing crops outside of solution 9. We specifically figured out that some areas have a tendancy to be aspected to one particular element need certain crops in order to survive (The mamool ja home) and we just.. never say anything about it. (Its possible that it was even the same element, and thus the same crops would work. But I forget)

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You know the worst about that. In every zone there is two series of 4 story side-quest (first quest is always a aetheral wind quest, 3 others are yellow quest). When you finish those 2 series of side quest there is a quest that conclude both lines with characters from both. In the Pelu Pelu zone, one of the quest is about a lalafell that tricked a Pelu Pelu into buying corrupted crystals, and the pay-off in the conclusion quest is that they will use the corrupted crystal to transorm the fire and thunder aether left by valigarmanda into earth aether so they can grow better crop in the mountains, mentionning what you with wind aether for Garuda. There is a side quest that solve that problem, making it a non problem. If you did that quest before, this whole segment just feels weird. You just want to scream "game, you litterally gave me the solution 12 hours ago"

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

Where did I imply that their opinion doesn‘t matter?
If you read my other comments I actually do say that it is completely fine to like the story.

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If you feel this was aimed specifically at you, that's my bad. My comment was aimed more towards those like Eyrilona who literally said in response to me: "so no, for the purpose of feedback and media coverage, the opinion of people that liked it does not matter as much as those who hated it."

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Originally Posted by Volgia

What damage? What are you talking about?

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My man living that sheltered life. Honestly i want them to bring back plunge. The new anime dash for drk is so damn lame. The npc in the lvl 90 void dungeon still has plunge but im left with the weeb anime dash from a failed edge lord....drk was done dirty during DT fix that lol

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Originally Posted by Derio

Story wasnt that bad. Over reacting dont you think. If anything the real criticism should be the current job design. Encounter design is good and story is passable. However the monk problems, BLM problems, DRK and GNB dash problems show that there was an extreme oversight not only in media tour but overall issues in job balance and is showing that adding a new job every expansion is slowly hurting every existing job in the game.

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Look im a hardcore advocator of ff14. Even I can say DT had a bad story, lets set aside the Wuk drama. Bad pacing, lack of fan fare, stakes were all over the pkace, horrible plot hole, krile and eren ville were done dirty, bland approach on characters, too many plots, too little resolves, grnocide is ok as long as we make final boss give up on her mission, lack of communication, lack of common sense (certain character dies, we could have prevented that, and another tragedy from happening), the telling others and forcing our views unto them, (the soul thing). Its weird but ideas on DT were all over the place....felt like no real focus until it came to certain parts of the story.

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Originally Posted by Zakuyia

Look im a hardcore advocator of ff14. Even I can say DT had a bad story, lets set aside the Wuk drama. Bad pacing, lack of fan fare, stakes were all over the pkace, horrible plot hole, krile and eren ville were done dirty, bland approach on characters, too many plots, too little resolves, grnocide is ok as long as we make final boss give up on her mission, lack of communication, lack of common sense (certain character dies, we could have prevented that, and another tragedy from happening), the telling others and forcing our views unto them, (the soul thing). Its weird but ideas on DT were all over the place....felt like no real focus until it came to certain parts of the story.

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I feel you could describe Endwalker just the same way with the exception of the stakes. Lack of common sense and communication, we get the final boss to give up on her mission by hugging her, we stand there while we watch someone die without doing anything... the story isn't without it's flaws but it wasn't anything too grating to do "Damage to the brand" lmao.

To me that's all a matter of opinoin, I found the storylines compelling. but if I have a real critcisims is that there are so many action scenes turned into cutscenes. You barely control your character but to drag other NPCs around, so it's a cutscene at your own pace. I have all these cool abilities and I use them on maybe 15 encounters. I find the MSQ flawed, but not because of it's characters, it's the narrative that bothers me, with such an up of quality from EW in terms of content it's kind of sad we spend so much time reading a book.

I was enjoying the story until we got to the final zone and then we had a repeat of the final zone of EW, a zone full of dead spirits and having to make brutal decisions. Hopefully 8.0 has a better end zone where we do not have to worry about existential death issues.

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

You know the worst about that. In every zone there is two series of 4 story side-quest (first quest is always a aetheral wind quest, 3 others are yellow quest). When you finish those 2 series of side quest there is a quest that conclude both lines with characters from both. In the Pelu Pelu zone, one of the quest is about a lalafell that tricked a Pelu Pelu into buying corrupted crystals, and the pay-off in the conclusion quest is that they will use the corrupted crystal to transorm the fire and thunder aether left by valigarmanda into earth aether so they can grow better crop in the mountains, mentionning what you with wind aether for Garuda. There is a side quest that solve that problem, making it a non problem. If you did that quest before, this whole segment just feels weird. You just want to scream "game, you litterally gave me the solution 12 hours ago"

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The crops in Heritage Found are dying for another reason. You will actually solve it in the sidequests.

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

You know the worst about that. In every zone there is two series of 4 story side-quest (first quest is always a aetheral wind quest, 3 others are yellow quest). When you finish those 2 series of side quest there is a quest that conclude both lines with characters from both. In the Pelu Pelu zone, one of the quest is about a lalafell that tricked a Pelu Pelu into buying corrupted crystals, and the pay-off in the conclusion quest is that they will use the corrupted crystal to transorm the fire and thunder aether left by valigarmanda into earth aether so they can grow better crop in the mountains, mentionning what you with wind aether for Garuda. There is a side quest that solve that problem, making it a non problem. If you did that quest before, this whole segment just feels weird. You just want to scream "game, you litterally gave me the solution 12 hours ago"

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I feel like those aethercurrent questlines could have been or at some point actually were supposed to be MSQ beats alongside the right of succession. They add some desperately-needed meaningful connection between the inhabitants of each zone and made everything feel more interconnected. Not even in a deep or remarkable way, they were just competent. And a pleasure because of that.