Remove Trust System from future Trials

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Originally Posted by ovIm

I love how so many people ignore the argument of "because of Trusts, it changes the narrative of the game, in one instance nonsensical" and just spout "don't use Trusts then" without even trying to understand the point. Thing is, even if a player were to not use Trusts, said player would still watch the cutscenes in the MSQ, where suddenly Character N appears out of nowhere.
Square Enix needs to write the story in a way that puts Trusts in the general area of the instance, to justify their existence in the Instance. That is the issue OP is pointing out, and I have to say, I quite agree with that stance. Its not that the Trust system is a bad thing, its that it impacts the story in noticeable ways.

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Thank you for understanding my point :)

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Originally Posted by ovIm

Its not that the Trust system is a bad thing, its that it impacts the story in noticeable ways.

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For me it wasn't any trial that had this impact. It was the first duty where the scions I did a trust with were also cutting my path off. But that so far is the only issue I noticed in regards to narrative. To me that's just another example of what is covered in other threads regarding DT story issues.

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Originally Posted by Kranel_San

FFXI did it better, where Trust is a form of magic, so you can summon any avatar of a character to fight at your side without the actual character being there. How can this be applied to FFXIV? Simple. Duty support but with Scions trust to fill the gaps, including one that aren't even present or nearby. Even better if you try to waive the Trust system into lore where Azem crystal does the job to fill the gaps.

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I like this idea that we would summon avatars of our Scion friends kind of like Themis did in Pandaemonium. Then we will still get the "WoL is the one who can handle these things" but we're calling upon the Azem creation magic to bring the avatars of our friends to help us.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Honestly, I find the Azem crystal nonsense, where you yank random nobodies from across the rift to help you, much more of a cheap narrative pull than characters from the MSQ popping up for a trial fight.

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I can understand why people could feel that way, although I would still argue that the Azem crystal summoning is far better than having seven random adventurers appearing out of nowhere to team up with you like it's done in the earlier expansions. How would that feel when you're in Ultima Thule of the edge of existence and seven people just appear with no reasoning behind it?

I'd also put it to you then in a different way....what alternative would you have, compared to the Azem crystal, as a reason for 7 other adventurers to appear at your side?

If your problem was actually with the narrative then the thread would be about the narrative. Instead you are abolishing an entire in game function because of a character and a handful of cutscenes.

There's really no need to argue about it anyway because Trusts and Duty Support are going absolutely nowhere, with no less utility.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

If your problem was actually with the narrative then the thread would be about the narrative. Instead you are abolishing an entire in game function because of a character and a handful of cutscenes.

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Characters and cutscenes are literally part of the narrative.....and the build up and participation in trials is a big part of the narrative overall, which the Trust system is a part of.

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Originally Posted by MeteorShan

I can understand why people could feel that way, although I would still argue that the Azem crystal summoning is far better than having seven random adventurers appearing out of nowhere to team up with you like it's done in the earlier expansions. How would that feel when you're in Ultima Thule of the edge of existence and seven people just appear with no reasoning behind it?

I'd also put it to you then in a different way....what alternative would you have, compared to the Azem crystal, as a reason for 7 other adventurers to appear at your side?

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The Azem crystal is literally summoning seven random adventurers from out of nowhere to team up with you. In Ultima Thule you use the crystal to summon seven random people, who have no connection to the plot you just went through, and yoink them into your fight. The Trusts are at least characters relevant to the plot of the MSQ, despite how flimsy a reason they have for being there. I'm not suggesting there should be an alternative to the Azem crystal, only that the Azem crystal from a narrative standpoint feels more jarring and flow breaking to me than 7 NPCs that have been consistently in the MSQ up to that point joining in for whatever reason.

It's an optional feature what is wrong with you?
My favorite time in the game when I play the MSQ is doing all the dungeons and trials with the trust system and the characters I'm with in the story, that's the best they have implemented.
You have roullettes and other things to make your trials. Shit open a party finder and ask for help if you need it. Don't use the trust system if you don't want to, you are not bound to use it.

Plesae keep the Trust system, it's the best.

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Originally Posted by MeteorShan

Yes the Wuk Lmao dislike is real, that is being discussed in other threads and people are going to speak up about it. However I do not wish to create another thread revolving around that, although I realise how I wrote the OP so I have caused this reaction rather than starting a critical conversation about this topic.

To the point at hand though, for example, the Valigarmanda trial at 93, although built up in an okay manner at best, it still has to shoehorn in Zarool Ja to do a complete 180 and help the group to create the 8 required for a Trust fight, despite this not being a part of his character, which is pretty jarring and especially so once you see how he pans out throughout the rest of DT.

The level 99 trial Trust team creation is pretty inexcusable, with several Scions just appearing out of thin air to fulfil the requirements for a Trust fight. It really is quite grating on the narrative and the build ups to these fights, this is unfortunately a writing problem.

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Valigarmanda wouldn't need to exist if not to show Zoraal Ja's obsession with proving that he's worthy of being a miracle and prove that he can be better than Gulool Ja Ja. He didn't help out of goodness in his heart, he wanted to prove himself.

His disappointment over learning that Valigarmanda was weak compared to when it fought Gulool Ja Ja also serves as a hook to why he couldn't feel satisfied enough with killing Gulool Ja Ja, who was old and had the head of reason dead, and he became obsessed with beating Wuk Lamat who did beat Gulool Ja Ja at his prime - something that Zoraal Ja couldn't do.

If anything, him NOT being there would go against his character - Zoraal Ja would never miss a chance to prove himself worthy of being the miracle. His character is eternally falling short of proving himself. He beat Valigarmanda but it was weak. He failed to beat Gulool Ja Ja in his prime. He failed to become dawnservant. He beat Gulool Ja Ja but he was old. He failed to beat Koana's army. He failed to beat Wuk Lamat in combat. He's perma cucked. That's his character.

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Originally Posted by MeteorShan

Characters and cutscenes are literally part of the narrative.....and the build up and participation in trials is a big part of the narrative overall, which the Trust system is a part of.

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The trust system is not a part of the narrative. It's gameplay. If you remove the character (that you dont like ) and the cutscenes (that reference Trusts) you could still have the Trust system. Hence why I said, your real issue is with characters and cutscenes, or is it? Maybe you just don't like that people are choosing to play with NPCs but don't want it to say that? I'm unsure.

That's why people keep asking why you're trying to get rid of an optional feature. It seems more like you desire control over how other people play the game for..some reason??

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

The Azem crystal is literally summoning seven random adventurers from out of nowhere to team up with you. In Ultima Thule you use the crystal to summon seven random people, who have no connection to the plot you just went through, and yoink them into your fight. The Trusts are at least characters relevant to the plot of the MSQ, despite how flimsy a reason they have for being there. I'm not suggesting there should be an alternative to the Azem crystal, only that the Azem crystal from a narrative standpoint feels more jarring and flow breaking to me than 7 NPCs that have been consistently in the MSQ up to that point joining in for whatever reason.

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Okay you seemed to miss the point and thank you for not being able to provide an alternative solution.

As I mentioned in my OP, the Trust system is good narratively for Trials when used correctly. It completely fits for the Hydaelyn trial as we have had the other seven scions journey with us down into the Aetherial Sea, so they've been with us on the journey to the end destination which is the mother crystal, Hydaelyn even speaks to each of the seven scions one at a time to give even more weight to them being there. On the flip side, it would feel pretty jarring during the MSQ to have the Scions all there with you, instead use Duty Finder you do the trial with 7 random people without even using Azem's crystal. That's cool though, some people will no doubt preferred doing that trial with other random players, but having all that dialogue and interaction between the Scions and Hydaelyn about testing us all and instead do the trial with 7 randoms would break the narrative.

I did say that I understood the Azem crystal summoning might not be everyone's cup of tea, however it was explained to us well in the SHB patches MSQ when we speak with the memory of Hythlodaeus, therefore narratively it makes sense when we use it given we ourselves are Azem, even if you don't like it as a tool. It's far better compared to say when we're in the Ruby Sea with Alisaie and Lyse, we enter the vault and Susano appears then Alisaie tells us to find 7 adventurer friends who might be nearby in the area. If this was the case also in say Ultima Thule WITHOUT using the Azem crystal, why on earth would there seven random people at the edge of existence?

The 93 and 99 trials do not use the Trust systems narratively well, several NPCs are shoehorned in out of thin air or doing a 180 based on how their characters would behave, which is simply bad writing and lacks narrative cohesion. FFXIV is lauded as the story driven mmorpg of the genre, it should do better than it did during the Dawntrail trails from a narrative perspective.

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Originally Posted by Aurumis

It's an optional feature what is wrong with you?
My favorite time in the game when I play the MSQ is doing all the dungeons and trials with the trust system and the characters I'm with in the story, that's the best they have implemented.
You have roullettes and other things to make your trials. Shit open a party finder and ask for help if you need it. Don't use the trust system if you don't want to, you are not bound to use it.

Plesae keep the Trust system, it's the best.

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I didn't say at any point to remove it completely from the game. So far it completely works for dungeons, it worked for the Mother Crystal in Endwalker but narratively it did not work for the 93 and 99 trials. If they had done the story build up better and it made more sense prior to those trials commencing, I would have zero problem. But it is affecting the writing and they are now deliberately trying to find ways to ensure there are 7 or more NPCs around you, even if those people have no place being there. That is a problem.

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Originally Posted by Ririta

Valigarmanda wouldn't need to exist if not to show Zoraal Ja's obsession with proving that he's worthy of being a miracle and prove that he can be better than Gulool Ja Ja. He didn't help out of goodness in his heart, he wanted to prove himself.

His disappointment over learning that Valigarmanda was weak compared to when it fought Gulool Ja Ja also serves as a hook to why he couldn't feel satisfied enough with killing Gulool Ja Ja, who was old and had the head of reason dead, and he became obsessed with beating Wuk Lamat who did beat Gulool Ja Ja at his prime - something that Zoraal Ja couldn't do.

If anything, him NOT being there would go against his character - Zoraal Ja would never miss a chance to prove himself worthy of being the miracle. His character is eternally falling short of proving himself. He beat Valigarmanda but it was weak. He failed to beat Gulool Ja Ja in his prime. He failed to become dawnservant. He beat Gulool Ja Ja but he was old. He failed to beat Koana's army. He failed to beat Wuk Lamat in combat. He's perma cucked. That's his character.

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Zoraal Ja is arguably the worst written villain in the entirety of FFXIV, his reasoning for the point where his character gets to as one of main villains is stretching things to the extreme and isn't plausible. But that's a different writing issue and not the point of my OP.

Prior to the trial he literally walks away from group, this is in line with his character so he can get ahead of everyone in an attempt to win the contest. His motivation for wanting to win the rite of succession is to plunge Tural into war so that the population can experience the horrors of it and become stronger as a people after suffering through it. Having Valigarmanda laying carnage across Urqopacha and beyond completely fits this motivation. When he suddenly does a u-turn and reappears, even Sareel Ja is shaking his head in disbelief at what he's doing.

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Originally Posted by MeteorShan

Okay you seemed to miss the point and thank you for not being able to provide an alternative solution.

As I mentioned in my OP, the Trust system is good narratively for Trials when used correctly. It completely fits for the Hydaelyn trial as we have had the other seven scions journey with us down into the Aetherial Sea, so they've been with us on the journey to the end destination which is the mother crystal, Hydaelyn even speaks to each of the seven scions one at a time to give even more weight to them being there. On the flip side, it would feel pretty jarring during the MSQ to have the Scions all there with you, instead use Duty Finder you do the trial with 7 random people without even using Azem's crystal. That's cool though, some people will no doubt preferred doing that trial with other random players, but having all that dialogue and interaction between the Scions and Hydaelyn about testing us all and instead do the trial with 7 randoms would break the narrative.

I did say that I understood the Azem crystal summoning might not be everyone's cup of tea, however it was explained to us well in the SHB patches MSQ when we speak with the memory of Hythlodaeus, therefore narratively it makes sense when we use it given we ourselves are Azem, even if you don't like it as a tool. It's far better compared to say when we're in the Ruby Sea with Alisaie and Lyse, we enter the vault and Susano appears then Alisaie tells us to find 7 adventurer friends who might be nearby in the area. If this was the case also in say Ultima Thule WITHOUT using the Azem crystal, why on earth would there seven random people at the edge of existence?

The 93 and 99 trials do not use the Trust systems narratively well, several NPCs are shoehorned in out of thin air or doing a 180 based on how their characters would behave, which is simply bad writing and lacks narrative cohesion. FFXIV is lauded as the story driven mmorpg of the genre, it should do better than it did during the Dawntrail trails from a narrative perspective.

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I didn't miss the point. I'm making the argument that the Trust system is the better narrative option than the Azem Crystal function. Are both setups without flaws? Of course not. But to remove Trusts which is currently the superior option imo would be a mistake.

In your examples.

If Trusts for trials had been a thing back then, SE would have set up the plot in a way that 7 NPCs would be present. How? Thats just a matter of literary freedom at this point since we're talking about a story that has already been written, but I've no doubt they would have had them be present for some reason or another, good or bad. That could very well have meant the story added some able-bodied NPCs leading up to Susano or the Scions not being yeeted back home early for Endsinger and the narrative changing accordingly.

As for the present 93 and 99 Trials. I really did not experience any qualms for the NPCs present at either Trial, especially the 93 Trial which made sense narratively to me for what was happening. The 99 Trial by that point in the story there were so many mishaps narratively that the barebone reason for them showing up was honestly enough to continue forward with the story without a second thought.

Can SE improve the experience? Absolutely. But the system doesn't need to be removed.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

If Trusts for trials had been a thing back then, SE would have set up the plot in a way that 7 NPCs would be present. How? Thats just a matter of literary freedom at this point since we're talking about a story that has already been written, but I've no doubt they would have had them be present for some reason or another, good or bad. That could very well have meant the story added some able-bodied NPCs leading up to Susano or the Scions not being yeeted back home early for Endsinger and the narrative changing accordingly.

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So therefore do you acknowledge that the narrative is important for who's accompanying you via the Trust system for trials?

I appreciate it's something they only implemented from SHB and it would be difficult to go back and implement it for all HW to SB trials, especially for several where there's no real viable way narratively to have 7 NPCs around you to do the trial with. It would have been nice to have and I have no problem with the Trust system as an actual system, something which the majority of people haven't seemed to grasp yet and I have explicitly said it's great for dungeons. It's simply the execution of it narratively for the Trials that it hasn't worked cohesively in Dawntrail.

I see we've hit the rock bottom of expansion discourse where people are unironically saying "Being able to do this content with story characters is detrimental to the story and formulaic, we should actually just summon 7 players for every fight because that's definitely narratively relevant and not at all formulaic"

I mean in theory we could also establish that we can fill up trust groups with the azem magic and we use the gauntlet class of light figures that Elidibus summoned. That would allow to do trust trials with all narrative characters needed even if they are not enough to normally fill it. :)

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Originally Posted by MeteorShan

The use of the Azem crystal cutscenes at the start of a trial and grouping with people that way through Duty Finder is really cool, I would prefer that being the sole method moving forwards rather than having the Trust system option for any other trials. If anything, I actually think they could also add an Azem crystal cutscene (which can be skippable of course) to the start of dungeons when you team up with three other random players through the Duty Finder.

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There is no need to force everyone else to play the way you want them to for your personal benefit that has no consideration for what they want.

If you want to use Duty Finder, then use Duty Finder. I did it that way myself for all the DT trials.

If others want to use Trust, let them use Trust.

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Originally Posted by MeteorShan

So therefore do you acknowledge that the narrative is important for who's accompanying you via the Trust system for trials?

I appreciate it's something they only implemented from SHB and it would be difficult to go back and implement it for all HW to SB trials, especially for several where there's no real viable way narratively to have 7 NPCs around you to do the trial with. It would have been nice to have and I have no problem with the Trust system as an actual system, something which the majority of people haven't seemed to grasp yet and I have explicitly said it's great for dungeons. It's simply the execution of it narratively for the Trials that it hasn't worked cohesively in Dawntrail.

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Yes, for any Trials they implement the Trust system for the NPCs used should be NPCs that are present at that point in the story, the reason they are present being a good one is up to the writers. But having said that, I would still prefer flimsy narrative reasons for present NPCs being involved in the fight over Azem random people pulled from the void.

Given the option of removing Trusts from Trials or leaving them and having SE improve. I would always choose the latter.

I love Trusts for trials, it's really the only time I'm able to see the mechanics properly and learn them at my own pace. As for story weirdness though, they need to simply stop trying to shoehorn in the characters like the Scions showing up in a cutscene. Just have them magically be there in the trust. We have the crystal, so players can just assume they summoned their allies with it.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

There is no need to force everyone else to play the way you want them to for your personal benefit that has no consideration for what they want.

If you want to use Duty Finder, then use Duty Finder. I did it that way myself for all the DT trials.

If others want to use Trust, let them use Trust.

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Another one who has missed the point. It has nothing to do with how I want to play, if the narrative build up to a Trial with a Trust systems sucks, it sucks and those NPCs have no reason to be there. The issue is not the actual Trust system itself, as a system it works brilliantly although it is pushing the game more towards solo play which is a shame for an mmo.

Regarding your point though, from a narrative perspective if people did prefer to do a Trust system fight for a trial using the Duty Finder instead when going through the MSQ, then it would be nice if Squeenix added the Azem crystal cutscene to summon our 7 fellow peeps via DF. Would be a nice touch imo.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Yes, for any Trials they implement the Trust system for the NPCs used should be NPCs that are present at that point in the story, the reason they are present being a good one is up to the writers. But having said that, I would still prefer flimsy narrative reasons for present NPCs being involved in the fight over Azem random people pulled from the void.

Given the option of removing Trusts from Trials or leaving them and having SE improve. I would always choose the latter.

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I would like SE to improve too, but there has been a worrying trend of writing since 6.1 and if the narrative quality doesn't improve then I would prefer they scrap the Trust system for Trials moving forwards.

If, however, SE does improve their quality of writing and build up to trials then I have absolutely no problem with the Trust system being there for future trials if the narrative warrants it. Alas though, there does need to be a course correction in this regard.

Anytime I can avoid dealing with some of the idiots out there who insist on ruining my gaming experience (in group content), I will.

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Originally Posted by kcj

Anytime I can avoid dealing with some of the idiots out there who insist on ruining my gaming experience (in group content), I will.

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Fair enough :) I initially misread your point so I apologise for my initial response!

Like I said myself, I do use the Trust system on an initial playthrough whenever it's available. So I have no issue with the actual Trust system itself, I just haven't liked where and how it's been implemented in Dawntrail for its first two trials in detriment to the MSQ.

No. I love the trust system, for healers it helps you learn all of the fights in the story mode so you can do them properly with a group. Story wise sometimes it makes sense sometimes it doesn't but why would you remove something useful just because? Also there is something relaxing about not being expected to be peak the first time you see a fight.

"Trusts totally break my immersion, since characters come out of no where!"

...you mean like the random adventurers we've spent the majority of the game doing trails with? 'cause the Warrior of Light, canonically, only soloed solo instances.

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Originally Posted by MeteorShan

Zoraal Ja is arguably the worst written villain in the entirety of FFXIV, his reasoning for the point where his character gets to as one of main villains is stretching things to the extreme and isn't plausible. But that's a different writing issue and not the point of my OP.

Prior to the trial he literally walks away from group, this is in line with his character so he can get ahead of everyone in an attempt to win the contest. His motivation for wanting to win the rite of succession is to plunge Tural into war so that the population can experience the horrors of it and become stronger as a people after suffering through it. Having Valigarmanda laying carnage across Urqopacha and beyond completely fits this motivation. When he suddenly does a u-turn and reappears, even Sareel Ja is shaking his head in disbelief at what he's doing.

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I'll give you the 99 trial which did seem more forced but Zoraal Ja joining did make sense in the 93 trial. He wanted to prove himself, as another poster outlined. And having Valigarmanda lay carnage wouldn't fit with his ideals because he wanted people to stop fighting by experiencing the reality of war, not just suffering in general.

It's true the plot has to constantly contrive itself around everyone showing up just before a trial, but it doesn't mean they need to remove the trust system entirely. They can use generic NPCs for the trials like they added for ARR dungeons and just use the Azem crystal as an excuse for the random party members to show up.

Strongly disagree
I think doing the trials with trusts is cool, regardless of who is in the party

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Originally Posted by MeteorShan

Another one who has missed the point. It has nothing to do with how I want to play, if the narrative build up to a Trial with a Trust systems sucks, it sucks and those NPCs have no reason to be there. The issue is not the actual Trust system itself, as a system it works brilliantly although it is pushing the game more towards solo play which is a shame for an mmo.

Regarding your point though, from a narrative perspective if people did prefer to do a Trust system fight for a trial using the Duty Finder instead when going through the MSQ, then it would be nice if Squeenix added the Azem crystal cutscene to summon our 7 fellow peeps via DF. Would be a nice touch imo.

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According to your post title, you want Trust removed completely from trials. That's fairly straightforward. There's no need for anyone to read farther. Either they're going to agree that they should be removed or they won't.

If that is not your point, then you shouldn't have made that your title. Your title should have been something more along the lines of "Please make NPC use in Duty Support flow better with story". That would have engaged those curious in reading farther to better understand what your point is and why you feel that way.

So you're getting the response you deserve for using a click bait title. Don't want Trust in trials? Don't use it. It's optional.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

According to your post title, you want Trust removed completely from trials. That's fairly straightforward. There's no need for anyone to read farther. Either they're going to agree that they should be removed or they won't.

If that is not your point, then you shouldn't have made that your title. Your title should have been something more along the lines of "Please make NPC use in Duty Support flow better with story". That would have engaged those curious in reading farther to better understand what your point is and why you feel that way.

So you're getting the response you deserve for using a click bait title. Don't want Trust in trials? Don't use it. It's optional.

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Completely fair point, it's the first thread I've posted in the forums and wasn't my intention for the title to be clickbaity, but I understand now how that's the case :)

I think it was fine for the trials in Dawntrail.

Now the dungeons in the Endwalker patches on the other hand? Yeah, I can see it. The Duty Support/Trust system is the only reason Urianger and Graha were present in 6.1, same goes for Thancred in 6.4.

I've said it before, but the Trust system was a mistake. Sure, the "I summon my friends" is cheesy. But dammit, it was better than "Let's drag all your Scion friends into the story for no reason other than the fact that we created this stupid system." Especially with the dogwater writing of Dawntrail, where each one of those Scions got maybe half a dozen lines each across the entire expansion. They barely put any effort into the couple of Scions in the beginning of story, but then they dragged the rest of them in for that one instance, and gave them no significance in the story anyway.

Isn't it duty support not trust?
Anyway if it is duty support then I think that it can exist but it should never interfere with the story. Having to fit characters who really shouldn't be present into the story to fill a role for a fight hurts the story for sure.
Just have generic guards or peacekeepers, maybe established local NPCs you don't need to insert people into the story just for it to make sense.
As for trust, that system is just for fun. I don't personally see the appeal (I'm not too interested in the reward being alternative costumes.) but it's about as interruptive to me as the golden saucer. Side content for people who enjoy it.

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

Isn't it duty support not trust?
Anyway if it is duty support then I think that it can exist but it should never interfere with the story. Having to fit characters who really shouldn't be present into the story to fill a role for a fight hurts the story for sure.
Just have generic guards or peacekeepers, maybe established local NPCs you don't need to insert people into the story just for it to make sense.
As for trust, that system is just for fun. I don't personally see the appeal (I'm not too interested in the reward being alternative costumes.) but it's about as interruptive to me as the golden saucer. Side content for people who enjoy it.

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Just use the random adventurers ARR gives you on Trust/Duty Support to fill in for characters that literally cannot be there, and bam. Solved.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Honestly, I find the Azem crystal nonsense, where you yank random nobodies from across the rift to help you, much more of a cheap narrative pull than characters from the MSQ popping up for a trial fight.

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Thanks to Azem's Crystal we can now randomly make a fight a Trial instead of a solo duty where we could absolutely smash the hell out of someone. I reckon we could have taken Golbez alone but hey, we got the crystal, might as well call out 7 more dudes.

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Originally Posted by DreadCrow

"Trusts totally break my immersion, since characters come out of no where!"

...you mean like the random adventurers we've spent the majority of the game doing trails with? 'cause the Warrior of Light, canonically, only soloed solo instances.

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Yes but in that case the characters actually canonically don’t exist

The trust problem comes because the scions who are going to make up your party always show up like 2 quests before the trial than randomly disappear afterwards, like imagine if thancred, uriangier, yshtola and alphinaud showed up randomly to Susano even though only lyse and alisaie were actually in the far east and Y’shtola was half dead

Then after the trial they just randomly after a quest or two go “oh I have stuff to do” and just diffuse back away again

If they want to continue to use the trust system they should be using either random NPC’s we summon with azem’s crystal. Nameless NPC’s for no reason or members of groups that are actually organically there (like members of oblivion for the 99 dungeon)

While I on the other hand would like to see every trial trust-enabled. Like endsinger and -redacted trial 3-

Having random characters popping up to fill spots in a trust party is like the least viable criticism in a story of this caliber tbh. This sounds like another poorly disguised "remove trusts because I don't like them" thread

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Originally Posted by dullneedles

Having random characters popping up to fill spots in a trust party is like the least viable criticism in a story of this caliber tbh. This sounds like another poorly disguised "remove trusts because I don't like them" thread

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So you would of been fine with Ryne popping up in DT to fill in a DPS role? IDK I feel like that would be contrived and really dumb.