Remove Trust System from future Trials

[MeteorShan]

Having finished the Yawntrail MSQ, which is absolutely dire, one extra part I feel needs to be removed from the game is the availability of the Trust system for Trials in the MSQ moving forwards.

I tend to enjoy using the Trust system on a first time playthrough for a new MSQ dungeon, as I like to see the Companions / Scions dialogue as we’re exploring along with being able to take my time to read any notes on the floor which give more lore about the area, typically when using Duty Finder other players will want to zoom through a dungeon as quickly as possible which is perfectly understandable.

The first time they enabled the Trust system for a trial was the epic second trial of Endwalker, which made complete sense as both ourselves and our Scion friends were being tested to see if we had to strength to overcome the final trial of oblivion & despair. This was a pretty awesome moment I think for most FFXIV players being able to do a trial with the Scions.

Dawntrail though shoehorns in the Trust system for the first two trials in the expansion, which is clearly just trying to shove Wuk Lamat down our throats more to validate her presence given she has dialogue at the end of each where we’re practically forced to pat her on the back for the great job she did, let alone what happens in the final trial with her terrible appearance halfway through. This, for me at least, has tarnished the epic feeling of the second Endwalker trial and I feel that really should be the only Trial in the game with the Trust system enabled as an option.

The use of the Azem crystal cutscenes at the start of a trial and grouping with people that way through Duty Finder is really cool, I would prefer that being the sole method moving forwards rather than having the Trust system option for any other trials. If anything, I actually think they could also add an Azem crystal cutscene (which can be skippable of course) to the start of dungeons when you team up with three other random players through the Duty Finder.

[Ririta]

Holy shit the Wuk Lamat brainrot is real lmao

just get over it already, go touch some grass, do something else

[Amh_Wilzuun]

Holy shit the Wuk Lamat brainrot is real lmao

just get over it already, go touch some grass, do something else

I love you

[MeteorShan]

Holy shit the Wuk Lamat brainrot is real lmao

just get over it already, go touch some grass, do something else

Yes the Wuk Lmao dislike is real, that is being discussed in other threads and people are going to speak up about it. However I do not wish to create another thread revolving around that, although I realise how I wrote the OP so I have caused this reaction rather than starting a critical conversation about this topic.

To the point at hand though, for example, the Valigarmanda trial at 93, although built up in an okay manner at best, it still has to shoehorn in Zarool Ja to do a complete 180 and help the group to create the 8 required for a Trust fight, despite this not being a part of his character, which is pretty jarring and especially so once you see how he pans out throughout the rest of DT.

The level 99 trial Trust team creation is pretty inexcusable, with several Scions just appearing out of thin air to fulfil the requirements for a Trust fight. It really is quite grating on the narrative and the build ups to these fights, this is unfortunately a writing problem.

[SDaemon]

Yes the Wuk Lmao dislike is real, that is being discussed in other threads and people are going to speak up about it. However I do not wish to create another thread revolving around that, although I realise how I wrote the OP so I have caused this reaction rather than starting a critical conversation about this topic.

To the point at hand though, for example, the Valigarmanda trial at 93, although built up in an okay manner at best, it still has to shoehorn in Zarool Ja to do a complete 180 and help the group to create the 8 required for a Trust fight, despite this not being a part of his character, which is pretty jarring and especially so once you see how he pans out throughout the rest of DT.

The level 99 trial Trust team creation is pretty inexcusable, with several Scions just appearing out of thin air to fulfil the requirements for a Trust fight. It really is quite grating on the narrative and the build ups to these fights, this is unfortunately a writing problem.

Honestly, I find the Azem crystal nonsense, where you yank random nobodies from across the rift to help you, much more of a cheap narrative pull than characters from the MSQ popping up for a trial fight.

[MeteorShan]

Honestly, I find the Azem crystal nonsense, where you yank random nobodies from across the rift to help you, much more of a cheap narrative pull than characters from the MSQ popping up for a trial fight.

I can understand why people could feel that way, although I would still argue that the Azem crystal summoning is far better than having seven random adventurers appearing out of nowhere to team up with you like it's done in the earlier expansions. How would that feel when you're in Ultima Thule of the edge of existence and seven people just appear with no reasoning behind it?

I'd also put it to you then in a different way....what alternative would you have, compared to the Azem crystal, as a reason for 7 other adventurers to appear at your side?

[SDaemon]

I can understand why people could feel that way, although I would still argue that the Azem crystal summoning is far better than having seven random adventurers appearing out of nowhere to team up with you like it's done in the earlier expansions. How would that feel when you're in Ultima Thule of the edge of existence and seven people just appear with no reasoning behind it?

I'd also put it to you then in a different way....what alternative would you have, compared to the Azem crystal, as a reason for 7 other adventurers to appear at your side?

The Azem crystal is literally summoning seven random adventurers from out of nowhere to team up with you. In Ultima Thule you use the crystal to summon seven random people, who have no connection to the plot you just went through, and yoink them into your fight. The Trusts are at least characters relevant to the plot of the MSQ, despite how flimsy a reason they have for being there. I'm not suggesting there should be an alternative to the Azem crystal, only that the Azem crystal from a narrative standpoint feels more jarring and flow breaking to me than 7 NPCs that have been consistently in the MSQ up to that point joining in for whatever reason.

[SeriousPan]

Honestly, I find the Azem crystal nonsense, where you yank random nobodies from across the rift to help you, much more of a cheap narrative pull than characters from the MSQ popping up for a trial fight.

Thanks to Azem's Crystal we can now randomly make a fight a Trial instead of a solo duty where we could absolutely smash the hell out of someone. I reckon we could have taken Golbez alone but hey, we got the crystal, might as well call out 7 more dudes.

[Ririta]

Yes the Wuk Lmao dislike is real, that is being discussed in other threads and people are going to speak up about it. However I do not wish to create another thread revolving around that, although I realise how I wrote the OP so I have caused this reaction rather than starting a critical conversation about this topic.

To the point at hand though, for example, the Valigarmanda trial at 93, although built up in an okay manner at best, it still has to shoehorn in Zarool Ja to do a complete 180 and help the group to create the 8 required for a Trust fight, despite this not being a part of his character, which is pretty jarring and especially so once you see how he pans out throughout the rest of DT.

The level 99 trial Trust team creation is pretty inexcusable, with several Scions just appearing out of thin air to fulfil the requirements for a Trust fight. It really is quite grating on the narrative and the build ups to these fights, this is unfortunately a writing problem.

Valigarmanda wouldn't need to exist if not to show Zoraal Ja's obsession with proving that he's worthy of being a miracle and prove that he can be better than Gulool Ja Ja. He didn't help out of goodness in his heart, he wanted to prove himself.

His disappointment over learning that Valigarmanda was weak compared to when it fought Gulool Ja Ja also serves as a hook to why he couldn't feel satisfied enough with killing Gulool Ja Ja, who was old and had the head of reason dead, and he became obsessed with beating Wuk Lamat who did beat Gulool Ja Ja at his prime - something that Zoraal Ja couldn't do.

If anything, him NOT being there would go against his character - Zoraal Ja would never miss a chance to prove himself worthy of being the miracle. His character is eternally falling short of proving himself. He beat Valigarmanda but it was weak. He failed to beat Gulool Ja Ja in his prime. He failed to become dawnservant. He beat Gulool Ja Ja but he was old. He failed to beat Koana's army. He failed to beat Wuk Lamat in combat. He's perma cucked. That's his character.

[MeteorShan]

Valigarmanda wouldn't need to exist if not to show Zoraal Ja's obsession with proving that he's worthy of being a miracle and prove that he can be better than Gulool Ja Ja. He didn't help out of goodness in his heart, he wanted to prove himself.

His disappointment over learning that Valigarmanda was weak compared to when it fought Gulool Ja Ja also serves as a hook to why he couldn't feel satisfied enough with killing Gulool Ja Ja, who was old and had the head of reason dead, and he became obsessed with beating Wuk Lamat who did beat Gulool Ja Ja at his prime - something that Zoraal Ja couldn't do.

If anything, him NOT being there would go against his character - Zoraal Ja would never miss a chance to prove himself worthy of being the miracle. His character is eternally falling short of proving himself. He beat Valigarmanda but it was weak. He failed to beat Gulool Ja Ja in his prime. He failed to become dawnservant. He beat Gulool Ja Ja but he was old. He failed to beat Koana's army. He failed to beat Wuk Lamat in combat. He's perma cucked. That's his character.

Zoraal Ja is arguably the worst written villain in the entirety of FFXIV, his reasoning for the point where his character gets to as one of main villains is stretching things to the extreme and isn't plausible. But that's a different writing issue and not the point of my OP.

Prior to the trial he literally walks away from group, this is in line with his character so he can get ahead of everyone in an attempt to win the contest. His motivation for wanting to win the rite of succession is to plunge Tural into war so that the population can experience the horrors of it and become stronger as a people after suffering through it. Having Valigarmanda laying carnage across Urqopacha and beyond completely fits this motivation. When he suddenly does a u-turn and reappears, even Sareel Ja is shaking his head in disbelief at what he's doing.