So is there anything good about Dawntrail at all?

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Originally Posted by Isala

People can keep trying to spread the lies of "You expected it to be bad, so of course you thought it was bad!" like some defense of the absolutely depressing quality of this expansion, but it's not taking. The vast majority of us were expecting lower quality, sure, as there was no way this was going to be Endwalker tier. But we adjusted our expections to that. And we were still disappointed. This expansion was SO bad that it literally became that "Our expectations for you were low, but holy f-" meme.

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What's so bad about it for you other than the MSQ?

This forum has been pushed down into a negative hellhole with people opening multiple negative threads to spread how shit everything is.
My advice in this case. Make your own picture and decide on your own.

Difficulty has increased dramatically in comparison to previous expansions. First level 90 has had teeth to a certain degree but pales massively to the first level 100.
Then again its just my opinion.

I love the expansion so far and i am excited where they decide to push with the MSQ and the graphics updates especially. DX12 wont happen according to yoshi-p. But big fan of the weather and particle effects so far.
Please keep it coming.

And yes. I don't disregard negative comments. They have their right to be there but opening multiple threads about issues, i dont know about that really.

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Originally Posted by TBerry

There are more humourous scenes than the forum will let you think.
Also

A callback to Alphinauds firewood gathering skills, which got a good chuckle out of me.

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They are few and far in between.

Absolute waste to not have used the rivalry between scions to have more silly arguments and jabs between them. Thancred blocks one path in a dungeon and as far as I remember that was the extent of it. Utter lack of banter and the charm of the past two expansions.

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Originally Posted by SirShady

Dude, what are you doing here? Go play! I've been trashing on the MSQ for days now but that shouldn't affect your experience! Dawntrail still has plenty of good going for it.

The dungeons and boss fights are huge improvements over Endwalker and actually challenge you to pay attention and stay engaged. I had an awesome time doing the first ex trial today with friends! The new music, for the most part, is still really good. The environments are absolutely the most beautiful they've ever been. You can tell they were made with the new lighting in mind. Even the story, for as much crap as I give it, had a few moments I genuinely enjoyed. And now I get to have fun tearing its writing apart with other nerds!

Don't let us color your experience for you! Go play the expansion, then come back and tell me why I'm wrong and that Wuk Lamat is the greatest thing since sliced bread, or join us in the Wuk Lamat Deserves a Shallow Grave camp! Try to enjoy yourself!

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It was just disheartening to see the complaints run the gamut (from "disaster" MSQ, to "terrible" voice-acting, to "eye-straining" graphics, to "odd choice" jazzy music, to "boring" role quests, to "insufferable" character, to "squandered" zone design, to "wasted" 2 dye potential). That almost touches all of Dawntrail's promotional material.

But, no, you are right -- it's my fault entirely. Great to hear that there are still great things to look forward to based on all that was shared here.

I also have a high tolerance for annoying characters, so let me be the judge of that for my own experience.

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Originally Posted by Hycinthus

It was just disheartening to see the complaints run the gamut (from "disaster" MSQ, to "terrible" voice-acting, to "eye-straining" graphics, to "odd choice" jazzy music, to "boring" role quests, to "insufferable" character, to "squandered" zone design, to "wasted" 2 dye potential). That almost touches all of Dawntrail's promotional material.

But, no, you are right -- it's my fault entirely. Great to hear that there are still great things to look forward to based on all that was shared here.

I also have a high tolerance for annoying characters, so let me be the judge of that for my own experience.

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You shouldn't have to have tolerance for annoying characters you know. That's not something positive.

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Originally Posted by Aurumis

You shouldn't have to have tolerance for annoying characters you know. That's not something positive.

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Some people just have higher tolerance and more patience.

Dungeons are great, music is great, zones are beautiful if a bit generic especially the first two...The first trial has been great.

I still see sharp writing here and there while doing the MSQ but the wild differences in the quality has been jarring. It's not consistent by a mile.

I got a new hat!

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Originally Posted by TBerry

Some people just have higher tolerance and more patience.

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Yeah but that doesn't excuse bad writting of the characters or bad characters in general like we know who.

The zones are visually appealing, the music has some great tracks, the graphics upgrade is nice even if a bit more subtle than some people wanted. The story had some great moments, even if it was very flawed overall.

Shaaloani was great. Easily my favorite zone of the entire expansion.

Well, I was enjoying it until I wasn't. It wasn't that long into the MSQ either. I don't know. I'm really struggling with wanting to play. It's gotten to the point to where I'm at the last few quests in the expansion and thinking about logging in to complete it is just a chore to me. Most people in my FC were playing at the release of the Early Access but most aren't now. I do enjoy the long overdue graphical update, the environments, the music, and the long overdue increased difficulty in dungeons/trials. It's this MSQ that's getting to me. Not the acting but the pacing. The droning on and on and on for hours with no real action. It has worn me down.

Idea behind the story was nice but failed in the execution in many ways.

This said, you asked about positive things so here they are: Dungeons. Music. Combat. Outfits. There are quite a few things that feel better then ever but with how FF XIV is fueled by the story, it's not hard to see why people lost some of the heart for the game.

Dawntrail has quite a bit of good stuff.
The music, the dungeons, the trials, the zones, for me the graphic update. I even liked the groundwork of the story despite the plotholes and the pacing.
The criticism is really more or less about the execution and Wuk Lamat.

The problem is that for many the MSQ is the heart of ffxiv so it being bad has the most impact on the game.

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

Dawntrail has quite a bit of good stuff.
The music, the dungeons, the trials, the zones, for me the graphic update. I even liked the groundwork of the story despite the plotholes and the pacing.
The criticism is really more or less about the execution and Wuk Lamat.

The problem is that for many the MSQ is the heart of ffxiv so it being bad has the most impact on the game.

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Pretty much. The heart of this game for me is the MSQ as much as I enjoy raiding, dungeons and all the extra content. I do harder content in WOW and my story fix comes FF(I gave up on WOW's story a long time ago and Shadowlands was a freaking embarrassing disaster, DF being the power of friendship was awful).

This MSQ has been all over the place, the quality also all over the place and I don't know if Square Enix notices it but people 100 percent pay attention to the dialogue, theme, lore and everything else. I can't call Dawntrail terrible but it's definitely ranked lower than Stormblood for me so far and that was the weakest MSQ in my opinion.

Story: It's passable (I understand that WOL might need a break from being the main character and take on a Paul Heyman role in this expansion).
English VA: If you're after bad VA, ARR is the place, but DT isn't too terrible, I suppose (it's the second-worst).
Zones: I really enjoy them; the graphic update is quite evident.
Music: The usual bangers.
Dungeons: The dungeons are excellently done; no more easy passes.
Trials: I'm quite fond of them and plan to attempt Savage right away instead of waiting until the end this time.
New Jobs: Picto has become my new favorite, and Viper is to be decided.
Old Jobs: To be decided.
Glam/Gear: I'm really into the gear this time around (I even leveled up to 100 from the level 97 dungeon twice just to get the gear). By the way, if you can create a skirt version of that, it would be fantastic.

At the end of the day, I think this expansion is decent. It's going to be tough to follow up on Shadowbringers and Endwalker, especially with a new writer and new scenarios, but I believe they'll find their footing.

The new tank animations are very satisfying.

Am I the only one who love MSQ? I think the story is great for a new chapter. I like it a lot especially the last bit about soul and AI.

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Originally Posted by ksuyen

Am I the only one who love MSQ? I think the story is great for a new chapter. I like it a lot especially the last bit about soul and AI.

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I second this. As cliche as it is I found it enjoyable. I personally loved Wuk Lamat. When was the last time we had such a jovial character around?

The MSQ has its issues yes, but Endwalker was the culmination of 14 years of storyline so of course Dawntrail is going to feel like a step down. The biggest takeaway about this expansion is where they run with it. We've still a few places on the source we've not gone to and with Y'shtola skull deep in her research on travel to the shards there's plenty of opportunities to be had.

The overall doom and gloom mentality I feel brought Dawntrail down some before it had a chance which I think meant a lot of folks didn't give it a fair chance which is unfortunate. There's plenty of games out there that have stories handled with only a fraction of effect DT had, but people still love the game to bits. Look at Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen for example.

My biggest problem with Dawntrail is MSQ, other content i have no problems with. Dungeons difficulty got better, ex trials are enjoyable. Visual with new locations and music in them are also good. Maybe the ending song sounded out of place, but other then that and msq, it was pretty good

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Originally Posted by Hycinthus

Reading the forums, there seems to be nothing good about DT at all.
Maybe it's my fault reading before even completing DT. But the negativity starts to affect me, and I'm losing motivation. I just landed in Tural, and I immediately feel like logging off, because I've been hearing all bad things about Wuk Lamat.

So is there anything good to look forward to from DT?

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I would give it a 6 or 7 out of 10. You should ask yourself why you play. Is it just for the MSQ? I've enjoyed Pictomancer so far and the new duties are very good.
I stayed off the forums and all Discords when I did MSQ. I don't want to anticipate being overly happy or overly disappointed with any story whether it is a movie, book, or the MSQ.

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Originally Posted by Hycinthus

Reading the forums, there seems to be nothing good about DT at all.
Maybe it's my fault reading before even completing DT. But the negativity starts to affect me, and I'm losing motivation. I just landed in Tural, and I immediately feel like logging off, because I've been hearing all bad things about Wuk Lamat.

So is there anything good to look forward to from DT?

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That depends on what you personally enjoy.

The negativity comes from basic human nature. We're more likely to discuss what we don't like than what we do.

For me, it's been mixed so far. There are parts I've enjoyed. There are parts that left me going "what were they thinking?".

It could be that you will enjoy all of it, none of it, or will feel mixed like I do. Don't let others form your opinions for you. Experience the expansion and decide for yourself.

I am a huge FF fan. Played all of them, am old enough to have played all of them when they were relevant. Have my own little 'museum' of FF titles I've collected over the years. It's hands down my favorite IP of all time.

This xpac is very 'safe and predictable'. If you never saw an earlier expac, never played through the quests in their original forms before the compressions they did, you probably won't be nearly as annoyed at using the keyboard to type in a phrase three times in three slightly different locations or zoom in at three places on an object and press a button to trigger a dialogue.

So if you liked it, thought that was engaging, it's more of the same. The maps are more of the same. Starter zone looks exactly like the starter zones outside of Gridania, just maybe a little denser with the trees.

It didn't veer very far at all from the 'formula', and for me, that's what makes it weaker overall. A good story and engaging characters could carry that, it's not a heavy lift, but the weaker story, weaker characters, just for me, makes this a very, very weak experience. I actually turned it off and went to play something else. I was THAT tired of Wuk Lamat Fantasy.

And I LIKE Wuk Lamat.....

I’ve enjoyed everything about Dawntrail except for the MSQ. Pictomancer is fun. Viper is fun. The areas are gorgeous, if not a bit empty. Music is good. I was personally pleased with the graphics update. It was just the MSQ I was dissatisfied with. It felt exhausting to do, and I’ve never felt that way about the MSQ before. Not even ARR or SB.

fight is good, map design is good, story is horrible, our character nearly non-exist in msq plot, we will turn into wow if this trending keep go on

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Originally Posted by Vespar

I have no idea what you are reading, but this expansion is AMAZING!!!!
The story is well voice acted and well thought out, the gear designs look great, the music, which I will admit threw me off upon landing in Tuliyollal, is actually FABULOUS!

The MSQ pacing is great and will pretty much get you to 100 if you only do MSQ, aether currents and 6 fates per zone for riding maps on a single job.

TBH, I love everything about this expansion thus far. Experience it for yourself! Dont let others ruin stuff for you. It sounds like just nitpicky people coming on the forums to gripe.

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This is what you call a bad faith actor.

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Originally Posted by Hycinthus

It was just disheartening to see the complaints run the gamut (from "disaster" MSQ, to "terrible" voice-acting, to "eye-straining" graphics, to "odd choice" jazzy music, to "boring" role quests, to "insufferable" character, to "squandered" zone design, to "wasted" 2 dye potential). That almost touches all of Dawntrail's promotional material.

But, no, you are right -- it's my fault entirely. Great to hear that there are still great things to look forward to based on all that was shared here.

I also have a high tolerance for annoying characters, so let me be the judge of that for my own experience.

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At the end of the day, it's all subjective man. I have no doubt some folks get sucked into a negative feedback loop when they don't enjoy the MSQ and probably blow other things a little out of proportion. It's easy to become critical about everything when one major aspect disappoints you. Like the jazz is kind of an odd choice, but I'm still bopping to it anyway.

Yeah, I'd say go in with an open mind and see where it lands for you. And if you can tolerate Wuk, you're probably set up for being able to appreciate it a lot more than I did haha.

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Originally Posted by missTori

I think people are looking back at endwalker with rose tinted glasses. Every expansion has always had a lot of fluff and pacing issues. Remember when the world was ending & the sky was red in radz at Han and we were playing dress up with bunnies on the moon? Yeah lol. Writers need to do better all around.

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And the carrots. My god, the carrots.

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Originally Posted by missTori

I think people are looking back at endwalker with rose tinted glasses. Every expansion has always had a lot of fluff and pacing issues. Remember when the world was ending & the sky was red in radz at Han and we were playing dress up with bunnies on the moon? Yeah lol. Writers need to do better all around.

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Dressing up with bunnies was jarring and silly but it lasted 2-3 quests, not the whole MSQ. The additional problem with the MSQ is that by FF14's design (obviously) you have to do the MSQ to get to the good bits so you're walled off from those excellent dungeons by an insane slog of a visual novel written by a 12 year old.

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Originally Posted by Hycinthus

Reading the forums, there seems to be nothing good about DT at all.
Maybe it's my fault reading before even completing DT. But the negativity starts to affect me, and I'm losing motivation. I just landed in Tural, and I immediately feel like logging off, because I've been hearing all bad things about Wuk Lamat.

So is there anything good to look forward to from DT?

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The music is ok. It isn't ShB or EW quality, but it is still better than anything you will get in most if not all other MMO's. The dungeons are mostly good, though some of the expert fights are extremely melee unfriendly to an obnoxious degree and have some very annoying mechanics that aren't "difficult" just not fun. The trials (minus something that happens in the last one) are all solid, have very creative new mechanics, and are fun to play out.

The problems are all 100% in the MSQ. Which is a major issue because... this is a MMO that's claim to fame has always been having one of if not the best story and plot of any MMO to the point many people only play when new story content is added. Not new expansions... new story content. I have even previously said the ARR->EW plot is actually the best FF story ever made even better than the actual single player games.

I will definitely not be telling anyone Dawntrail has a better plot/story than the single player FF's.

Story: X
Job gameplay: X
PVE content: Good so far! There's a LOT to be seen still.

If they don't drop the ball with that one, I may endure, or else, I'll just find another MMORPG to focus and resub only at 7.75 so I can see the rest of the patch MSQ without cliffhangers. If they get really fazed by the unpopular way the .o MSQ was conceived, they'll change things around in the patch ones and hopefully it will be good.

I think it was more or less the case with Stormblood if I wasn't mistaken. People generally disliked the .o story, but the patch content made up for it.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I think it was more or less the case with Stormblood if I wasn't mistaken. People generally disliked the .o story, but the patch content made up for it.

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I am PRAYING they make some major changes to the writing team and manage to Stormblood the rest of the MSQ. Fix the plotholes they need to fix going forward and just move on from the main Dawntrail story as quickly as possible and into better and brighter things. Please YoshiP!

That tankbuster in EX1 is the best shit I've ever seen.

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Originally Posted by Hycinthus

Reading the forums, there seems to be nothing good about DT at all.
Maybe it's my fault reading before even completing DT. But the negativity starts to affect me, and I'm losing motivation. I just landed in Tural, and I immediately feel like logging off, because I've been hearing all bad things about Wuk Lamat.

So is there anything good to look forward to from DT?

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The dungeons and trials are the best they've ever done. The zones are really pretty with the new graphics. Some of the music is fantastic. Parts of the story are ok. It gets better 95+

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Originally Posted by RatCopter

That tankbuster in EX1 is the best shit I've ever seen.

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Yup, I progged Ex1 as a tank, and I'm obsessed with that tank buster now. Coolest TB they've ever done. Whoever is designing their trials/dungeons should get a raise and I hope they continue down this path.

If you read the comments in here a lot of people skipped cut scenes cause of the slow start, which was warned about ahead of time. once u get to zone 3.5 the story takes starts becoming interesting with a lot of character building, and starts improving greatly. By the end of the expansion you have a wonderful story and expansion. The people who started skipping cutscenes early and never stopped have no clue whats going and really should not be posting or having opinions that are completely invaled. Which is a majority of the people posting on the forums. Our fc hasn't had a single person dislike or hate the story. We are meant to be on vacation, and that's what it is up to a point. While many of us agree their are def. slow parts and some of the pacing could have been better at the start, once it picks up its just non stop lore, adventure, and crazyness. There is one zone that feels out of place, but its supposed to be part of our vacation, so take that as u will. If u skipped story from z 3 you missed all the good stuff so of course your gunna think it was bad.

I think there's plenty to enjoy about Dawntrail, just not the MSQ. The sidequests I've played seem fun, especially the Role Quests. The environments and the music are great, the additional dye channels are breathing new life into self-expression, and it's nice to have stuff to do and people to play with in the game after what was arguably a bit of a drought.

The music, the world design is actually very pretty, and the actual battle content is a blast. I think if you're the type of player that enjoys the combat part of the game you'll have a great time.

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Originally Posted by Hycinthus

Reading the forums, there seems to be nothing good about DT at all.
Maybe it's my fault reading before even completing DT. But the negativity starts to affect me, and I'm losing motivation. I just landed in Tural, and I immediately feel like logging off, because I've been hearing all bad things about Wuk Lamat.

So is there anything good to look forward to from DT?

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The main story is terrible and poorly written, but as with all video games, you don't have to enjoy the story to enjoy playing the game.

The new music is good (though certain tracks are overused during certain cutscenes to the point where they lose all impact. Machinations - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMP4HH7mct0 , Fracture - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWkH1elDDLI , etc. IMO they need to mix out some of the 10-year-old songs we've heard thousands of times or at least use them more sparingly so they retain some emotional impact).

The zone artwork is very pretty (there's too much unused empty space in some zones, but this is a minor complaint that doesn't impact gameplay at all).

The dungeons and trials are very well done.

The graphical update is pretty snazzy.

There are definitely things to like. But if you play mostly for the story, you will probably not have the best time.

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Originally Posted by Urielparadox

If you read the comments in here a lot of people skipped cut scenes cause of the slow start, which was warned about ahead of time. once u get to zone 3.5 the story takes starts becoming interesting with a lot of character building, and starts improving greatly. By the end of the expansion you have a wonderful story and expansion. The people who started skipping cutscenes early and never stopped have no clue whats going and really should not be posting or having opinions that are completely invaled. Which is a majority of the people posting on the forums. Our fc hasn't had a single person dislike or hate the story. We are meant to be on vacation, and that's what it is up to a point. While many of us agree their are def. slow parts and some of the pacing could have been better at the start, once it picks up its just non stop lore, adventure, and crazyness. There is one zone that feels out of place, but its supposed to be part of our vacation, so take that as u will. If u skipped story from z 3 you missed all the good stuff so of course your gunna think it was bad.

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This is just not true. If you've read a lot of the criticism on here most of it comes from MSQ fans who experienced the entire story and were severely letdown. We have people making entire college theses on why its terribly written. These narratives of "everyone who doesn't like it skipped it" and "people don't like it cause it's slow" completely misrepresent the criticism. Plenty us didn't skip and just think the narrative is written incredibly immaturely and without nuance. We came in expecting a slow character driven narrative and got Wuk Lamant fan fiction and dry tedious busywork.

Dawntrail is fine.

Don't let whiners get to you.