CBU3 just slapped every gay, lesbian, trans, queer folk in the face right on Pride

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Originally Posted by Sea-Wolf

Ryne and Gaia's love story shows that LGBT romance does add substantial to the story and is also at the same time nuanced... But CBU3 is refusing to make another queer love story.

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Wait, they were gay? They just seemed like a couple chick friends to me. I guess it proves you can project your own point of view into the narrative, eh?

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I can't speak for everyone, but if the respondents are anything like me, the reply isn't necessarily for the OP but for this particular narrative and anyone who adopts the mindset. Because whether or not the post is sincere, this is an unfortunate reality that exists in our society.

Also. Some people are just bored. It's draught season in FFXIV right now. If the OP posted this the same week as DT launch, I assure you it would get buried very quickly.

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How is LGBT representation in story an unfortunate Reality Hm?

Also you guys already got Asahi. So, thread over.

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Originally Posted by Sensui

Also you guys already got Asahi. So, thread over.

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No, no, you guy can have him. Here, take him, he's yours:
(┛◉Д◉)┛https://i.ytimg.com/vi/A6agxP1viDE/maxresdefault.jpg

the game already has gay marriage, you are free to make your character as gay as you like, stop forcing your sexuality on other peoples characters, even the developers characters.

heck we dont really mention straight couples in this game all that often outside of saying X has parents, this game isn't about who we are sleeping with, its about the sacrifices our character makes to save the world.

if you want gay people to feel accepted then accept them and stop treating them like a segregated group, not every story's narrative need make room for your own insecurities.

Damn, I'm reading some comments and even if this post is bait or not some of you should check your homophobia!

Now with that being said I'll give my opinion as a bi man with more lean to men lately. Characters as Dion are great not because they're gay, but because they're well-written. Dion is a great character that happens to be gay, it is true if you take his relationship out (won't dig deeper to avoid spoilers) he's still a great character. Normally I really find all this kind of conversation pretty much US centered when the rest of the world doesn't have this issue in the same gravity as US does.

It happened with Dawntrail announcement: People claiming and jumping to conclusions just because the new region is based on America, and we suffered from English, Portuguese and Spanish colonizers that robbed our gold and our resources, and it happens these new regions are rich in gold and ceruleum. But guess what? No one asked Americans and especially Latin Americans what we think about all this, since most of us were happy to see references to our cultures and SEA.

Some should get their heads out of your privileged country and understand inclusivity is something that only happens there because your country is full of white supremacists and even nazi people that oppress minorities. That doesn't happen in every country at the same scale and since we don't ask for inclusivity.

Asking a Japanese developer to respond to US and even EU demands like if some of you were Social Justice Warriors is racist and annoying. Inclusivity happens naturally, it's not a checklist they have to respect, they do it because they feel like it and that's why characters like Dion work so well, because they're a character first, and he happens to be gay. The same is with people, we're people first, not a category that needs representation in every corner of media or country. Western demands are not the same in Japan, and we have to understand this when some say FF is racist for not having a black or PoC main character, it's a Japanese game what were you expecting?

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

That only works until a moderator nips your own "not a low-effort troll, but still controversial and important" thread in the bud.

Not going to ask for that to happen. We can either ignore the low-effort trolls or no. After all, folks who complain about responding to troll threads have been posting here regardless.

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Yeah, an issue with the forum is how blocking a poster doesn't completely hide everything relating them in your feed. And even then they'll just turn to necroing a bunch of threads if they can't get any other engagement.

100% ... whether you're gay or not gay.. should your sexual preferences define your character? I get having a kink and all that but, I really can't believe it *defines* your core identity....

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Originally Posted by Sea-Wolf

Ryne and Gaia's love story shows that LGBT romance does add substantial to the story and is also at the same time nuanced... But CBU3 is refusing to make another queer love story.

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Do people not know what friendship is or something
this happens with rean and crow in trails too, clear friends turned into a relationship for no reason

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

Do people not know what friendship is or something
this happens with rean and crow in trails too, clear friends turned into a relationship for no reason

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Rinoa And Squall were in Romantic relationship too... And Ryne and Gaia were modeled after FF8.

Anyone remember when games were seen as entertainment and not message boards for recognition or personal validation.

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Originally Posted by Sea-Wolf

Dexerto recently interviewed Final Fantasy 14 director Naoki Yoshida (via a translator) during a preview for the upcoming Dawntrail expansion. Yoshida was also the producer of Final Fantasy 16, so we asked whether Dawntrail would feature LGBTQ characters in the same vein as Dion.

“So, if the question is whether there is a character that is clearly expressed in that way as Dion,” Yoshida said, “Then the answer is no.”

“But this time around, the Warriors of Light will be meeting many different races, many different tribes, many different peoples. The theme of the expansion is “diversity”, so in that sense, you can expect many different encounters.”

https://www.dexerto.com/final-fantas...cters-2759025/

Diversity includes sexuality and gender diversity! This is such a big slap in the face to everyone in the LGBTQIA+ Community, especially after Dion was released in FF16... We all thought... This expansion Dawntrial, will be the first expansion to feature a major LGBT NPC story character in the MSQ. But it's not. Does Square Enix even care about their LGBT players anymore?

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July can’t come quick enough.

almost fell for this till i saw ur username

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Originally Posted by Sea-Wolf

Please educate yourself...

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naw i think i agree with bahax

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Anyone remember when games were seen as entertainment and not message boards for recognition or personal validation.

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He's doing this for entertainment. His. Hes trolling. Again. I know keeping track of like, dozens of accounts is hard, but he always does the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

He's doing this for entertainment. His. Hes trolling. Again. I know keeping track of like, dozens of accounts is hard, but he always does the same thing.

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Don't you mean thousands of bot farm accounts?

God please no, CBU3 barely writes friendships with any sort of depth. Romance would be so cringe.

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Originally Posted by Vanitax

Dion is a great character that happens to be gay

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↑↑↑
this way. this way!
good character first!! good character that happens to be what they happen to be!
gay, straight, uh, some other flavour

...
Someone read Yda and Papalymo as couple?

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Originally Posted by Burmecia

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Someone read Yda and Papalymo as couple?

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When I first played the game as a pre-teen in ARR I thought Nanamo and Raubahn were married lol.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

He's doing this for entertainment. His. Hes trolling. Again. I know keeping track of like, dozens of accounts is hard, but he always does the same thing.

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I know he is a troll :D

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

Im gay and I dont give a single fuck about this. Can we not just play a fun game with a good story, without forcing some agenda here?

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I linked this to a few in my FC as well and they both had the same reaction as you. From what I gather, pretty much all LGBTQ+ people just want to play fantasy games and forget about the real world. People like OP like to stir the pot and start fights.

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Originally Posted by Krojack

People like OP like to stir the pot and start fights.

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https://i.imgur.com/9yhrsxA.png

something something

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Originally Posted by Sea-Wolf

Please educate yourself...

https://usustatesman.com/opinion-why...-is-important/

When I was a kid, I was obsessed with the Disney Channel show “Phineas and Ferb” (2007-2012). I thought — and still think — the show was incredible and made a point to watch it every day. As a child captivated by romance, I lived for the love between two of the main characters, Phineas and Isabella.

However, no one would assume that this romance was pushing a sexual orientation onto me.

More people than ever feel comfortable identifying as part of the LGBTQ+ community and as society continues to progress, this number is likely to continue growing.

With an increase in people speaking out about identifying as queer, the media has also seen an increase in queer representation. Notable movies such as 20th Century Studios’ “Love, Simon” (2018) and shows such as Netflix’s “Heartstopper” (2022-present) have showcased queer lead characters to help more of the population feel represented.

This representation has spread to kids’ media as well, but this seems to be where the biggest controversy lies.

Disney shows like “Gravity Falls” (2021-2016) and “Good Luck Charlie” (2010-2014) were criticized for including same-sex couples as background characters. When rumors surfaced about Elsa from Disney’s “Frozen” (2013) being queer, there was pushback.

So, when Disney’s “The Owl House” (2020-2023) featured the first canonically bisexual lead in a cartoon, people were angry.

A common argument against queer representation in kids’ media is that it’s enticing the kids watching to identify as queer as well.

In reality, sexual orientation is determined by brain chemistry and non-social environmental factors. In other words, the media and other people are both factors that do not contribute to sexual orientation.

Furthermore, the goal of queer representation in kids’ media is not to encourage kids to change their sexuality. Instead, the goal is to help more children feel seen and comfortable being themselves.

It’s no news that representation matters. People feel more comfortable with themselves when they see others like them, especially on a large scale. When people have others that they can identify with, they feel less alone, lowering levels of depression and anxiety.

Kids’ media is no different, and a variety of representations in such is perhaps even more important. With kids still learning how to feel about themselves, understanding that there are other people like them can help counter feelings of loneliness and isolation.

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Originally Posted by Sea-Wolf

Dexerto recently interviewed Final Fantasy 14 director Naoki Yoshida (via a translator) during a preview for the upcoming Dawntrail expansion. Yoshida was also the producer of Final Fantasy 16, so we asked whether Dawntrail would feature LGBTQ characters in the same vein as Dion.

“So, if the question is whether there is a character that is clearly expressed in that way as Dion,” Yoshida said, “Then the answer is no.”

“But this time around, the Warriors of Light will be meeting many different races, many different tribes, many different peoples. The theme of the expansion is “diversity”, so in that sense, you can expect many different encounters.”

https://www.dexerto.com/final-fantas...cters-2759025/

Diversity includes sexuality and gender diversity! This is such a big slap in the face to everyone in the LGBTQIA+ Community, especially after Dion was released in FF16... We all thought... This expansion Dawntrial, will be the first expansion to feature a major LGBT NPC story character in the MSQ. But it's not. Does Square Enix even care about their LGBT players anymore?

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Assuming you're not a troll, speak for yourself please. I'm a gay man and I don't feel "slapped in the face". Sure it's a little disappointing to hear that there won't be any LGBT+ people in Dawntrail, and a little odd. Maybe the writers don't feel comfortable writing them due to lack of experience, maybe they don't consider it important. Let's not advocate for ticking off checkboxes in terms of diversity/representation in FFXIV; bad enough that it's become the norm in other games and Hollywood.

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Originally Posted by Krojack

I linked this to a few in my FC as well and they both had the same reaction as you. From what I gather, pretty much all LGBTQ+ people just want to play fantasy games and forget about the real world. People like OP like to stir the pot and start fights.

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I've noticed that in literally all media genres and groups, shocking surprise LGBTQ people are just like everyone else and only mentally ill people spend all their time making their sexuality their entire personality(gay, straight or any combo you want). I'm a straight dude, one of my all time favourite books is called Corpies about a superhero, he's also gay, by the logic of some people I shouldn't be able to empathise or enjoy the story because I'm not even slightly represented in the book........... How about instead of SE adding LGBTQ characters, they just yeet some of these scions and add good characters regardless of their sexual orientation.

I'd put this question to OP, would you rather have a great character well written story and interesting plots, or a bad story but it's ticked all you diversity boxes?
Sea wolf keeps talking about no LGBTQ characters on the forum but other than Urianger, none of their sexualities are every discussed, they can be whatever your head cannon has them as. In fact I literally think the only character prominent character in the game that's had their sexuality discussed is Urianger.
You could argue Thancred potentially, but other than that none of the scions have any romantic interests, likely intentionally so each player can decided how their version of the scions are.

well, he doesn't have to....

have you looked around at your fellow WoL's? they're already very lgbtq+, my server has more inclusive fc's than i can shake a stick at.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Stay the eff away from kids.

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Hol up before I report you, excuuuse me? What are you trying to imply here?

Who wasted his time with such a stupid question? I wish these could be vetted beforehand by someone with a brain. Imagine getting to talk to Yoship and this is what you waste time on? Lol

Sadly he has to be nice about it but you know inside he is cringing and annoyed.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

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My WoL already Gay-married Hien, much to the shock of Yuguri who lives with us, so I have no need for any additional LGBT characters.

I'm gay and I don't want forced LGBTQ+ relationships just to grab 'pink money'... But at the same time I question, every time there's an actual couple, why it's always default to be straight cisgendered?

That kind of answers the question about the importance of representation and the ability for one to see themselves on media. Said that, I presume people against this thread (let the OP be a troll or not), would be okay if there was an actual duo like Dion and Terence? Whose relationship is just a background feature of their characters.

How they decided that Dion and Terence would be two men as a gay couple? Flip of a coin? Because the reception was positive in many fronts with the way it was added.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I'm gay and I don't want forced LGBTQ+ relationships just to grab 'pink money'... But at the same time I question, every time there's an actual couple, why it's always default to be straight cisgendered?

That kind of answers the question about the importance of representation and the ability for one to see themselves on media. Said that, I presume people against this thread (let the OP be a troll or not), would be okay if there was an actual duo like Dion and Terence? Whose relationship is just a background feature of their characters.

How they decided that Dion and Terence would be two men as a gay couple? Flip of a coin? Because the reception was positive in many fronts with the way it was added.

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I think the default is straight cisgendered because most people are straight and cisgendered. It is the most typical arrangement.

Not saying representation and diversity isn't good storytelling, but it's probably why it starts as "default".

Well written couples are welcome of any sexual orientation to me. There are obnoxious straight couples in media as well as gay ones. I care more about how good they are as characters and how they fold into the narrative. I think in general what people don't like is when a gay couple is put into the narrative and then there are tons of articles seeking praise for having included it, since then it feels disingenuous and more to try to increase sales.

I'd rather them not add any romance to the game. Given how cringey the Endwalker crafter relic questline was, I'd rather CBU3 never write another romance again.

i dont think we should be forcing orientations out in the open or forcing relationships to happen especially putting it on writers who are just not experienced to write about such a subject it would only come off as fake and disingenuous to those who are actually lgbtq+
would it be cool to see a representative character? well sure but only if they are written in a natural and not forced way it doesn't need to be outright stated what a character's orientation or preferences would be to those with whom it would matter they would be able to tell even if its very subtle.
if ever they are too introduce a mainline character thats to resemble lgbtq+ they need to make sure the character is designed and written with care and considerations not just view it as a means to earn public favor.

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Originally Posted by Sea-Wolf

...... We all thought... This expansion Dawntrial, will be the first expansion to feature a major LGBT NPC story character in the MSQ. But it's not. Does Square Enix even care about their LGBT players anymore?

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I'm sorry but aren't you in charge of the main character of FF XIV's story? So if you have your Character, who can be whatever you like it to be, not giving you a welcoming feeling isn't it your fault for feeling under represented?

The last thing this game needs is romance and sexuality shoehorned into the storyline. For all we know Thancred’s had his bi-awakening by now (good for him!) but it’s not gonna add a damn thing to the story. My gay af WoL and his gay af husband are the only representation I need.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I'm gay and I don't want forced LGBTQ+ relationships just to grab 'pink money'... But at the same time I question, every time there's an actual couple, why it's always default to be straight cisgendered?

That kind of answers the question about the importance of representation and the ability for one to see themselves on media. Said that, I presume people against this thread (let the OP be a troll or not), would be okay if there was an actual duo like Dion and Terence? Whose relationship is just a background feature of their characters.

How they decided that Dion and Terence would be two men as a gay couple? Flip of a coin? Because the reception was positive in many fronts with the way it was added.

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There is a gay couple in an ARR side quest, but I can’t remember which one. Maybe for an optional dungeon unlock? Or post moogle? I think it’s a Miqo’te and Hyur, who discuss people judging them for being interracial. Which honestly, even as lgbtq+ myself, I would rather see more interracial couples. I loved the Elezen and Hyur who had a baby at the Crystarium, F’lhaminn and her dead Elezen lover, and the Au Ra and Hyur couple from the EW ranged job quest. Oh, and the Lalafell and Hyur woman in the Fringes!

Romances has never really been a focal point in FFXIV. There are some implied relationships, sure (think Moenbryda & Urianger, Cid & Nero, Thancred & Minfilia, Ryne & Gaia), but that's about it. I don't think there's a need for any romantic relationship to be made important to the plot.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I'm gay and I don't want forced LGBTQ+ relationships just to grab 'pink money'... But at the same time I question, every time there's an actual couple, why it's always default to be straight cisgendered?

That kind of answers the question about the importance of representation and the ability for one to see themselves on media. Said that, I presume people against this thread (let the OP be a troll or not), would be okay if there was an actual duo like Dion and Terence? Whose relationship is just a background feature of their characters.

How they decided that Dion and Terence would be two men as a gay couple? Flip of a coin? Because the reception was positive in many fronts with the way it was added.

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Hetro is probably the default as it's debatably the norm for society (I say debatably cause personally I think it's more likely that bi is the norm for humans but still). Same sex couples are going to be rarer and since this game has I think 3 actual defined couples then it would make sense they would be hetro or appear as hetro. That being said I have no issue with them adding a few different relationships into the game just as long as they do it well. I think we can all agree we're tired of every gay character having to be flamboyant and effeminate in you face kind of characters, which is why I think Dion and Terence was so well received. They were gay but their sexuality didn't effect their personality as an individual, as in they weren't cliche. At the same time I think ff16 was a terrible game, but that's not due to Dion and Terence, in fact those are the only 2 characters the writers didn't butcher.

I mean...

Your character can marry someone of the same gender.

Titania is transgender

There are player-made Pride events, trans rights marches and such all across the realm.

If CBU3 really wanted to slap every LGBTQ+ person in the face, they wouldn't allow any of these things.