Feedback: Feeling disappointed by 6.55's narrative, and thus unsure about Dawntrail

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Originally Posted by Ath192

Believe it or not, Zodiark prevented the final days. The solution just wasn't agreed upon by everyone. So no, the WoL wasn't even the reason the world ended or was saved to begin with.

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Uh, the Ancients literally caused the Final Days, and then they sacrificed half their population to try and fix their mistake by creating Zodiark. Also, the Final Days turned most of Etheirys into a barren wasteland. He didn't actually fix the problem. They had to sacrifice another half of the population to restore life to the planet which is what Venat and her supporters opposed, which is why she caused the Sundering. And I'm not sure you can call what Venat did genocide. The Sundering fragmented the remaining Ancients into mortal, weaker parts that led to the myriad races and peoples. So sure, they weren't the perfect, immortal beings they were before, but it led to more life on Etheirys and the reflections, while limiting the power of the remaining Ancients who thought mass sacrifice was a good strategy.


And I realize we've gone very off topic from 6.55. I agree with the OP that it seems odd that we're going to help Wuk Lamat without knowing anything yet. Would have made more sense for her to explain what she wants, and ask us to come to Tural and see for ourselves, and then decide whether to grant her our help.

Also didn't like the shady Thancred/Urianger scene. They know better!

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Originally Posted by SoloWingMetatron

Of course! If going with the opposition means the entire world ends!...

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Yeah, then the Ascians' standards of morality would take priority and not the standards of the people that perished when the world ended, which is still a great example of "might makes right."

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Originally Posted by Ath192

Proving the point, you drank the koolaid they fed you in the games narrative, and now you think we did the right thing. All it would really take to flip you is for the games narrative to change to you being a WoL rejoining the souls of your lost species that was destroyed by an evil witch hydaelyn, and how this terrible ascian is preventing your plans and trying to kill you so you don't achieve your goals.

You re-skin the people of the sundered worlds to look like horrible zombies and monsters that your once beautiful race were so you don't feel any attachment to them and now you'd be on the ascians side. It's completely subjective. Just because what you see is there as beautiful and someone is trying to change it does not make them wrong or you right.

You were trying to save people, the ascians were trying to save people, meteon was trying to save people. Everyone was trying to save everyone around there.

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So what's your solution. Not have the WoL ever exist, allow the Ascians to succeed in the rejoining, and after they wipe out all life in existence except the unsundered 3, we get to play Sim Ancients in Amaurot and Elpis?

Also, the Ascians and Meteion were not trying to save people. They just wanted to return to their old world, but they couldn't bring back those sacrificed to Zodiark. Meteion absolutely wasn't trying to save anyone. She explicitly states her goal is to kill everyone, because the universe is too depressing to continue existing.

Obviously FFXIV wouldn't exist if we went with your preferred narrative.

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Originally Posted by OliverQ

Obviously FFXIV wouldn't exist if we went with your preferred narrative.

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Is this meant to be a downside or....?

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Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

Is this meant to be a downside or....?

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If this is your feeling on the matter, why do you play. If the upside to the story being different is the whole game not existing.... Why play.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

As a direct consequence of the one individual with knowledge of the approaching Final Days refusing to reveal that knowledge in order to mitigate the devastating loss of life and need for sacrifices in the first place. Furthermore, Zodiark was in himself a necessity due to the dire state that Etheirys was left in due to the Final Days rendering the planet unfit for habitation.

He factors into Venat's plans both before and after the Sundering as an absolute necessity though his existence is exploited not for the benefit of the Ancients but the Sundered who exist at their expense.



It is not incorrect, the Ancients ceased to exist as a species, society and culture as a result of the Sundering. Venat herself, when confronted for her test through battle, specifically refers to herself as the 'last of her kind'.

The Sundered are a completely different form of existence rather than direct descendants.

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How did the Sundering kill the Ancients? I'm not aware of the story saying it killed them, merely split their essence making them mortal, thus they would die of old age and thus required the unsundered 3 to reincarnate them through memory crystals. Plus most of the Ancients died sacrificing themselves to create Zodiark and Hydaelyn. We don't know how many were left, but it was less than half.

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Originally Posted by OliverQ

How did the Sundering kill the Ancients? I'm not aware of the story saying it killed them, merely split their essence making them mortal, thus they would die of old age and thus required the unsundered 3 to reincarnate them through memory crystals. Plus most of the Ancients died sacrificing themselves to create Zodiark and Hydaelyn. We don't know how many were left, but it was less than half.

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it killed them. the life that began again just looked distorted and wrong. its implied a less dense soul is "less" of a person and seen as flat or muted to the ancients. whether or not this is actually the case and the people are actually 2D or not is unknown although it's looking to be not the case because of the robot people being so surprised that you're able to channel absurd amounts of aether (even when you're not a casting class) to perform insane feats of strength and magic.
seems to me that even when split, an ancient's soul is just utterly insane power-level wise.

it just looks lame as hell to the ancients because they're literal gods (power wise) in comparison.

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Originally Posted by Swordsman

Yeah, then the Ascians' standards of morality would take priority and not the standards of the people that perished when the world ended, which is still a great example of "might makes right."

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I agree it's a good example for the Ascians...However, I disagree on the WoL.

My reasoning being that if it were the Ascians that took power - The Rejoining would ultimately occur and unfortunately it would only be a matter of time before The Final Days returned and another Zodiark/Hydaelyn situation would happen...and round and round would the cycle go. However if the WoL holds power it at least breaks that endless cycle and opens up new possibilities to all life.

Therefore, it's not a case of which set of morals is perceived to be "correct" dictated by the one who holds power - In XIV's case, I argue that it shows the WoL's morals and course of action to be actually correct because the alternative leads to the same never ending results.

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Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

Is this meant to be a downside or....?

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I mean, if you hate the game so much you would prefer it not exist, why play at all? I personally love the Sundering/Hydaelyn/Zodiark story and I doubt I'll feel as enthusiastic about the Dawntrail story.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

If this is your feeling on the matter, why do you play. If the upside to the story being different is the whole game not existing.... Why play.

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Originally Posted by OliverQ

I mean, if you hate the game so much you would prefer it not exist, why play at all? I personally love the Sundering/Hydaelyn/Zodiark story and I doubt I'll feel as enthusiastic about the Dawntrail story.

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Think about it.

If there is no happiness to be found for everyone in Final Fantasy XIV, there is only one place it can be found.

Destruction of the servers.

Hear me out. All this "disappointment", these misunderstandings between people, these conflicting feelings, and theories, we all know there will be no end to it. If we all can't be happy, no one gets to.

You can't disagree with the story if there is no story. You can't ask for gameplay changes, if there is no gameplay to change. You can't argue on the forums, if there is no forum. So much animosity, and for what? Nothing? Exactly.

If I had a giant crystal tower, I'd certainly go back in time to prevent the umbral calamity that is this game existing. Doesn't that sound interesting? Imagine all the strife that would no longer exist. There cannot be any greater mercy. Yoshida is a tyrant!

I know you guys might not agree with me now, and I understand, but give me a little bit longer in this questline, and I'll give you a dialogue option you can't say no to, regardless of what you actually think.

I'm just having a laugh while I wait for hunt trains guys, come on. I'm just joking, don't take it seriously, please. It's not like I'm saying Meteion was right or anything.

Unless...?

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Originally Posted by Xirean

Funny how this thread started as critiquing the political set up in 6.55 but quickly turned into the "Lackluster storytelling in EW" thread.

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This thread got hijacked before it left the runway.

On topic though, I agree with much of what the OP said.

PS: My WoL would decapitate all her enemies after battle. No more of this resurrection BS.

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Originally Posted by SoloWingMetatron

I agree it's a good example for the Ascians...However, I disagree on the WoL.

My reasoning being that if it were the Ascians that took power - The Rejoining would ultimately occur and unfortunately it would only be a matter of time before The Final Days returned and another Zodiark/Hydaelyn situation would happen...and round and round would the cycle go. However if the WoL holds power it at least breaks that endless cycle and opens up new possibilities to all life.

Therefore, it's not a case of which set of morals is perceived to be "correct" dictated by the one who holds power - In XIV's case, I argue that it shows the WoL's morals and course of action to be actually correct because the alternative leads to the same never ending results.

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Yes, I too agree the WoL/Scions' morals are actually correct as opposed to that of the Ascians', but it's because of the WoL's and the Scions' victory over the Ascians that these morals were allowed to become the leading moral standard in the first place. That's why I mentioned the "might makes right" principle. The freedom to let people make their own choices in life and choose from many different possibilities is still a moral standard in itself, and it's one the WoL/Scions had to ensure would become the dominant moral standard by killing beings who opposed that.

In short, I do agree that the WoL's morals are actually correct, but the fact is these morals (the freedom to choose from many new possibilities, etc.) were dictated by the ones who hold power, which are the Scions/WoL.

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

Issue 3: Urianger and his secrets

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While I agree with you on your other point about us being railroaded into agreeing to support Wuk Lamat's claim without enough information, this feels like grasping for reasons to complain, particularly given that we weren't actually shown anything of Urianger withholding secrets while interacting with us – but more importantly, it's just a totally different situation to him talking about being open to each other as friends.

In the context of this competition, we're not friends but opponents, and keeping to himself isn't any more a betrayal than if we were playing a card game and he won't show his cards to us. It's just how the game is played.

I do think it's odd how much of a game the contest seems to be portrayed as, but as our own character is (or should be) doing, I'll wait until I get there and have all the facts before I pass judgement on it.

I got the impression we agreed to go see but it's not like we signed a contract or have a geas put on us or anything. We can still refuse if anything seems hinky.

I'm curious what the deal will turn out to be with Thancred and Urianger. Have they possibly already agreed to help another candidate and are scoping out the competition? Who knows. We'll find out I'm sure.

I'm not making any assumptions about things because the pre-ShB story had me scratching my head about what could possibly be more important than what we had going on, and then we got Shadowbringers. So all I'm expecting is that I'm going to be surprised somewhere.

6.55 to me was just evident they were playing with the cards close to their chest.

What Wuk Lamat Said: "Hey if you got any questions about Tural just let me know."
What Wuk Lamat really meant: "I will tell you only about the contest for the throne, the 80 years of peace, and my language, and my warmonger of a sibling."

It would've been nice if they had had even a slight teaser towards the deeper underlying plot in 7.0.

I get that we're starting "fresh" and all, but I would've liked more then pointless reassurance that the other Scions are coming along for the ride.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

particularly given that we weren't actually shown anything of Urianger withholding secrets while interacting with us

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I won't deny the possibility for alternate readings, but given that he was waiting a mere 2 minutes from our dwelling, it seems like he could have chosen to discuss what was overheard with us. If he chose not to do that, then he chose to make it a secret.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

In the context of this competition, we're not friends but opponents, and keeping to himself isn't any more a betrayal than if we were playing a card game and he won't show his cards to us. It's just how the game is played.

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I don't mind that Urianger won't show us his hand, but I do mind that he isn't telling us he's playing the game. Especially when it's not a game; the Scions have experienced far too much to treat a contest that will determine the well-being of at least one nation — if not the world — as if it were a game.

Regardless, I'm not writing off the expansion yet. I like Wuk Lamat as a character. I'm eager to see Tural. But there do seem to be some red flags that the writers don't understand the characters or the world they're writing, and that has me concerned. I hope I'm wrong.

From reading other comments doesn't sound like Dawntrail will be very good. I already don't like part were forced to help one win event to make them a ruler. How about let the WOL enter the contest to become the ruler and let Scions back Wuk Lamat if they want to.

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Originally Posted by OliverQ

So what's your solution. Not have the WoL ever exist, allow the Ascians to succeed in the rejoining, and after they wipe out all life in existence except the unsundered 3, we get to play Sim Ancients in Amaurot and Elpis?

Also, the Ascians and Meteion were not trying to save people. They just wanted to return to their old world, but they couldn't bring back those sacrificed to Zodiark. Meteion absolutely wasn't trying to save anyone. She explicitly states her goal is to kill everyone, because the universe is too depressing to continue existing.

Obviously FFXIV wouldn't exist if we went with your preferred narrative.

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Huh, I wasn't solving anything, we got into a discussion that the current faction holding power largely sets what is moral and what isn't in the conscience of its subjects. Some people said it didnt, and that the WoL is good, and I was on the side it was subjective. All arguments ensuing were about that discussion.

My solution to keep the game more fun from the narrative perspective? Well, idk, it can't be solved anymore unless they make up some depowering event. It was more prevention that would've been great, the story should've focused more on reasoning why you and other adventurers had to band together to make this story happen and via teamwork we acheived it instead of turning us into this godslayer. We have no where to go. We defeated the biggest threat to the universe already. Now, we just roam and utterly murder anything we choose to take issue with. Hopefully the gameplay improves because if it doesn't itll just be a double punch of staleness.

As far as me as a player, well I'll pretend I didn't already kill gods and am an unstoppable murder machine so that things still feel like they could be a threat to me and probably hum along until I get bored and quit. But we're definitely in the post endgame stage of XIV narrative wise.

The way things are looking basically we already integrated Doma, Ala Mhigo, The mols, the city states, Ishgard, the beast tribes and sharlayan to our european union conglomerate and we're about to integrate Tural and eventually the rest of the world and make globalization a reality. At the end of all this Alphinaud, a kid, will take the helm and assume the position of global leader, because in this world letting a little Elf kid dictate politics is what people do.

Thank you for writing what I've been wrestling with as well. It felt wrong and gross how quickly we just agreed to help her despite knowing so little. If this was the way they were gonna go with dawntrail, then all of post-ew should've been us learning about Tural and its political situation. Zero's filler arc, though enjoyable to some perhaps, reeeeeeeally wasted what could've been critical setup for DT. We needed more than a .5 patch for this, that's for sure.

To be fair, we know quite a bit more than what the OP describes regarding well... everything.

Issue 1:

Re: Tural, we know it is made up of multiple disparate cultures working together under the leadership of a 2 headed Mamool-Ja whose name I'm blanking on but is something like Goolo or other and is titled the Dawnkeeper? We know he has 3 sons and a Daughter, 2 brothers are the Sisters elder, the 3rd hasn't been placed as 3rd oldest or youngest yet.

Re: Wuk Lamat we know shes happy go lucky, sure of her strength and perhaps overconfident, eager to explore and wants to make sure brother number 3 doesn't obtain the throne but otherwise doesn't really care if her other 2 brothers gain the throne. And she eats meat like she is a severely dehydrated person sucking down water in the desert.

Re: Political goals it seemed pretty clear she wants to stop her third brother and has no real plans beyond that.

Re: The other 3 contenders of the throne we do know some facts. (I'm blanking on the eldest brothers description but I believe it was generally described he is strong and a fair brother) The second eldest brother was described as having studied in Sharlayan at the Studium and is a Mi'qote and while studying, very few (possibly zero to 1 people outside of the Headmaster) knew of his royal lineage. The 3rd brother we do not know much about other than he has heard of the fall of Garlemald in Eorzea and seeks to gain the throne of Tural to invade Eorzea and the sister is looking to stop him.

Issue 2:

Largely a plot point so nothing one can do about it.

Issue 3:

This is tricky because it is entirely possible Thancred was going to come to us with the Petition Urianger recieved and waited to overhear what we were discussin and when he realized we were accepting a petition of our own from a separate petitioner for the same Contest in Tural he most likely decided the odds are better in everyone's favor if we split our effort amongst the 3 contestants actively looking to stop the 3rd brother.

To be fair to Thancred, he frequently listens in on conversations without letting his presence be known so it is hardly out of his character.

As for Urianger, he may simply wish for this to be a bit of a surprise or wants us to gather intel/ proceed with our actions independent of the knowledge that (most likely brother number 2) another petition was made to compete in the contest and that that petition was accepted until closer to this whole thing kicking off.

Issue 4:

Is it that no one knows anything about Tural or is it that we really only performed a cursory investigation in the public parts of the library. Much more information on Tural could be in the more private parts of the library such as political structure, military strength, economic capabilities, Notable Figures, etc. etc.



All in all this is going to be a looooong 5 months.


PS Totally forgot to mention it is highly likely Estinien is going to be in the new world and already signed up for the Eldest Brothers team making the whole contest a 4 way competition with Scions working on behalf of three of the contenders. Also why no mention of Y'shtola at all? And if Graha no go with, how will "Graha Taco"?

Haha you fools, FFXIV is immune from criticism, every line of dialogue is perfectly handcrafted to come together in the 10.0 expansion.

I admit, there was this feeling that I didn't like about the situation and you penned it down perfectly. Just... yeahhh

There should have been much more setup, you're leaving and involving yourself in a political thing that doesn't really have much to do with you at the whims of a complete stranger here.

Edited because the thread has actually managed to refocus on what it was created to discuss

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

I wish that were true, but the words spoken don't indicate that:

"And so I ask you: will you lend me your strength, and help me win the throne of Tulliyollal?
You don't need to decide right this moment.
But I will need you if I'm to triumph over the competition. I'll stay here as long as I can while waiting for your answer."

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What precedes this:

G'raha Tia: I understand your reasons, but this being an event that will dictate the course of your nation's future, is it appropriate for outsiders like us to be involved?

Wuk Lamat: Oh, it's more than appropriate. The Dawnservant himself expressly encourages it. The ruler of Tural must navigate the intricacies of myriad cultures, and there's no better way to prove oneself qualified to do so than to work with foreign allies. That's why I sought you out. Through our hunt, I've confirmed that you're a warrior of considerable skill. But more importantly, one of good character as well.

What is said afterwards:

Erenville: Whether Wuk Lamat has the makings of a ruler, I couldn't say. But I do know that she deeply cares for her nation and her people. Whether you choose to help her, though, is for you and you alone to decide. Think on it well. Now then, it's past time I reported our mission's success to the guildship. I would've done so sooner, except Her Highness needed to have her royal meal.

As always, it's way more complicated ...

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

I won't deny the possibility for alternate readings, but given that he was waiting a mere 2 minutes from our dwelling, it seems like he could have chosen to discuss what was overheard with us. If he chose not to do that, then he chose to make it a secret.


I don't mind that Urianger won't show us his hand, but I do mind that he isn't telling us he's playing the game. Especially when it's not a game; the Scions have experienced far too much to treat a contest that will determine the well-being of at least one nation — if not the world — as if it were a game.

Regardless, I'm not writing off the expansion yet. I like Wuk Lamat as a character. I'm eager to see Tural. But there do seem to be some red flags that the writers don't understand the characters or the world they're writing, and that has me concerned. I hope I'm wrong.

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Im with you here.

It is entirely possible the situation in Tural was explained very differently to Urianger and Thancred than it was to us. Given Thancred's wry smile when eavesdropping, im assuming they are treating it as a game, not a political struggle. I really dont think Urianger would ever betray us again.

Estinien will likely get scooped up by a third faction, and Y'shtola, who went oddly unmentioned, possible the fourth with promises of learning secrets of teleportation to the first.

The Scions and their motivations dont concern me as much as getting railroaded by Wukie into joining her crusade.

Im not concerned yet, but was hoping to see, at the very least, a third dialogue option saying something to the effect of "I'll go to evaluate the situation, but I'm not making any promises." That alone would have made me feel better.

It's almost like we'll learn new information and change our stance as the story unfolds and we learn more informations.
Ya know, kind of like when we learn the truth about ishgard in heavensward.

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Originally Posted by Jatoi

There should have been much more setup, you're leaving and involving yourself in a political thing that doesn't really have much to do with you at the whims of a complete stranger here.

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Although Wuk Lamat herself is a complete stranger, she comes with an implicit recommendation from Erenville, who we do know and trust and who seems to be level-headed and insightful.

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

I won't deny the possibility for alternate readings, but given that he was waiting a mere 2 minutes from our dwelling, it seems like he could have chosen to discuss what was overheard with us. If he chose not to do that, then he chose to make it a secret.

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I feel like you're making a stretch from "honesty between friends regarding important matters" to "obligated to inform us of anything he hears". Doubly so when that would be a direct betrayal of Thancred's trust just to inform us of something that doesn't really change anything. Triply so when, again, he is our direct competitor in a contest, whatever you may think of the quality of the writing that set the contest up.

What would we actually do with the information that they will be our opponents? We'll find out soon enough. It might be as simple as that we'll find out as soon as we're off the boat in Tural and go to the "official launch of the contest" gathering.

On a side note, Thancred and Urianger are also characters who have a good insight into things and a strong moral compass. I cannot believe that they would be willing to participate in this contest on behalf of someone who should not be supported.

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

...the Scions have experienced far too much to treat a contest that will determine the well-being of at least one nation — if not the world — as if it were a game.

Regardless, I'm not writing off the expansion yet [but] there do seem to be some red flags that the writers don't understand the characters or the world they're writing, and that has me concerned. I hope I'm wrong.

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We don't know what they're treating it as, exactly, but if the writers intend to portray it like a game then we may just have to go with it.

I'm wary about the writing choice of that particular plot point, but I'm not going to let it get in the way of what I think about everything else or getting enjoyment out of the parts that the story does do well.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Although Wuk Lamat herself is a complete stranger, she comes with an implicit recommendation from Erenville, who we do know and trust and who seems to be level-headed and insightful.

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The issue I take with this is that they are still a stranger to us, even with recommendations because the pace of this doesn't do this justice. It's why I think the story about the Void had taken too much precedence when it should have been shortened. That I think is more of the core problem here, because this is quite sudden indeed and there isn't much to chew on between this expansion and DT, especially because I think there are 5 months left?

She's still a stranger.

I'm interfering in the politics of something I don't understand for a complete stranger.

What the hell?

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Originally Posted by Denji

She's still a stranger.

I'm interfering in the politics of something I don't understand for a complete stranger.

What the hell?

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I'm more on board because the not-a-stranger guy I worked with previously says that it's important for us to get involved to stop something bad from happening.

They made the very debatable choice to have a whole filler arc instead of fleshing out the introduction to the next expansion and that's what we ended up with : A quick, swept under the rug prologue.

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Originally Posted by Syln

They made the very debatable choice to have a whole filler arc instead of fleshing out the introduction to the next expansion and that's what we ended up with : A quick, swept under the rug prologue.

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I wouldn't have expected any more than this, regardless of what story they chose to tell in the Endwalker patches. Spending multiple patches "fleshing out Dawntrail" months before we get there seems unnecessary.

Female Hrothgar would have been at least part of the hold-up, but they also did have hints at the incoming plot all throughout the patches. If they wanted to provide us with more background information than this, they had every opportunity to do so.

Like it or not, this is the story they want to tell us, and I want to hear the whole thing before judging it.

The main improvement would probably be to not rush the build-up to a new expansion in the second half of the final patch. Somehow and some way it may have been better to try and make one or two of the trials into a dungeon boss so that we could face Zeromus earlier, then spend more of the patches building up to the situation in the New World like we have every other expansion.

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Issue 1: Backing a political candidate that we know nothing about

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Easy to withdraw our support if we find they are a problem. The point of backing them is to prevent a rival winning who plans to conquer Eorzea the same way the Garleans did with Gyr Abania, Castrum Meridianum and Doma.

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nothing about the 3 other contenders for the throne

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We know one of them plans to wage war with us. We know one of them involves a bird called Valigarmanda.

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Issue 2: Forced to agree?

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Well obviously, or the expansion wouldn't happen.

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Which was disheartening, because after going through so much together, it felt like these two were supposed to be our friends. And that's not how you treat friends.

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I agree. It's also crazy that after going through so much, Thancred thinks he can win against the Warrior of Light in the contest. SE must be well aware of this, so they will most likely explain it to us in Dawntrail, because it obviously doesn't seem logical right now.

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Especially considering recent events in the previous expansion. One of my favorite parts of Endwalker was the heart-to-heart that we had with Urianger on the moon, where he reflects with regret on his history of subterfuge.

And now here he is, choosing to keep new secrets from the friend he had that conversation with, instead of being open about it.

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I was thinking that too. I don't really care that much that he continues subterfuge, but y'know, to still do it again after being caught is amazing.

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It's silly that nobody knows anything about Tural

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Well they do know things about Tural. The Great Gubal Library had a book about the city of gold. The library in Old Sharlayan had books about it that we looked at in the MSQ.

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Especially when you've got folks like Erinville going to and from there.

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Wasn't it implied he was from there as well because of how long he's known Wuk Lamat?

Do people actually expect to have the whole plot explained to them like they are 3yo, in advance on top of it or something ?
Yes there is a problem in going to involve ourselves in a succession war, especially of a nation we know next to nothing about. And that's why the WoL can confesse their doubts about it. But consider this:

1- We are told that within this competition there is at least one side that might become a threat to our own country. Makes sense to at least go and check out how true that is and be the judge of that.

2- Litteraly nothing stops the WoL or the Scions to back away and leave if they so chose, if things aren't what they were told to be. (ie: Wuk Lamat deceiving them for any reason)

3- What we know of Tural, from books wrote by explorers like Galuf, so far aligns with what Wuk Lamat says: the current king unified the different clans and created an era of peace that, apparently, was quite good given the reports we found in the library.
So, based on available informations, the WoL has no reason not to help Wuk Lamat or at least go in person see what this is all about.

Obviously there is going to be twists and revelations, maybe Wuk Lamat has had her reputation as one of the heirs soiled in some way and her claim is a childish way to regain honor or some perception of parental acceptance while another candidate is more fit to become king.
Maybe the war mongering candidate isn't as bad as we are told and another one is much more dangerous. We don't know, that's why we're going there.

If you don't think the WoL should go well then, just don't buy dawntrail then, or just play old content with the new jobs :p

I would have preferred to be on the side of Urianger and Thancred with Y'shtola as a bonus. And Graha'Tia the fanboy, that's fine.

I usually like Alphinaud and Alisae when everyone's around. But in Garlemald, I wanted to strangle them...

But then, Krile waited until the end of Endwalker 6.55 to pull out a style she knew, in addition to arriving late to the fight that by the scenarium, she "saves" us?

In previous expansions, we were treated to a long preview of the new jobs, but here it's just a last-minute arrival, which is a shame. I wasn't expecting the second part of MSQ to be long, but here it's the bare minimum.

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

Issue 1: Backing a political candidate that we know nothing about

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This was my primary reaction to this story. Wuk Lamat feels very impulsive and immature, all she cared about when I "got to know her" was killing wild animals so she could eat them. Not at any point did I get the impression that she'd make a good leader, but it feels like the story is heading down a railroad of us watching her grow as a person so she becomes a good leader by the time we succeed at putting her there. My character though should have no reason to believe that's going to happen, no reason to support her over the others.

My primary issue is that she straight up tells us that there are FOUR contenders to the throne, and while I totally get wanting to stop the warmongering one from winning, it bothers me that we're not even given the option of asking about the other two in order to have any idea why we should pick her over them. If it were only two options, a matter of Wuk Lamat over war, okay sign me up, but it's not.

None of the other scions can give a good reason for supporting her specifically either! None of them appear to even be in it for the contest. Krile wants to find the city of gold and the twins want to go on vacation to research Tuliyollal's society. But in order to do that, they pledge their support to Wuk Lamat? Why?

Fingers crossed something crazy happens and the story goes off these rails almost immediately. Because the layout as presented has me worried.

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Originally Posted by Kalaam

Do people actually expect to have the whole plot explained to them like they are 3yo, in advance on top of it or something ?
Yes there is a problem in going to involve ourselves in a succession war, especially of a nation we know next to nothing about. And that's why the WoL can confesse their doubts about it. But consider this:

1- We are told that within this competition there is at least one side that might become a threat to our own country. Makes sense to at least go and check out how true that is and be the judge of that.

2- Litteraly nothing stops the WoL or the Scions to back away and leave if they so chose, if things aren't what they were told to be. (ie: Wuk Lamat deceiving them for any reason)

3- What we know of Tural, from books wrote by explorers like Galuf, so far aligns with what Wuk Lamat says: the current king unified the different clans and created an era of peace that, apparently, was quite good given the reports we found in the library.
So, based on available informations, the WoL has no reason not to help Wuk Lamat or at least go in person see what this is all about.

Obviously there is going to be twists and revelations, maybe Wuk Lamat has had her reputation as one of the heirs soiled in some way and her claim is a childish way to regain honor or some perception of parental acceptance while another candidate is more fit to become king.
Maybe the war mongering candidate isn't as bad as we are told and another one is much more dangerous. We don't know, that's why we're going there.

If you don't think the WoL should go well then, just don't buy dawntrail then, or just play old content with the new jobs :p

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The issue is the priority that the Void story had taken over this, and given that the patches are spread further apart than previous expacs I don't think it's out-of-line of people to have the desire to familiarize their character with one so important as Wuk Lamat or get more tidbits on what they will be getting into. One or two patches ago would have been decent. This doesn't mean that people want the plot entirely explained to them, just to reassure you because that didn't feel like a rational thing to say. There is an interesting premise with this prologue, just the execution is the thing that is making people wary. After all, Summer is five months away and Endwalker released in 2021.

I definitely have a different read on this than a lot of other people it seems. For me, it is made pretty clear that

1) We didn't promise to support Wuk Lamat, we merely mentioned that we'll go with her to Tural for adventuring purposes. Perhaps there was a '' nod '' to backing her up politically that I don't recall, but the dialogue with G'raha and the choices for Wuk Lamat's request seems to imply that we are doing this only for adventure's sake, politics be damned.
2) The ending with Emet-Selch's speech definitely definitely seem to imply that we are Team Erenville, as in let's go seek that Golden City.
3) Even if we agreed to back up Wuk Lamat, there is nothing that says that there can't be shifts regarding who the WoL actually will end up supporting, same with the other scions who are joining the competition, as the story progresses.

I feel like the story is as open as it can be right now, and nothing is definite, perhaps for the first time in a long long while. I'm curious to see where this leads, personally.

I aggree having more than one patch of setup would have been very welcome. But people are over-reacting, there is other stuff that deserve more complaints I think.