whats up with the pictomancer hate

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Originally Posted by MisterNublet

The only decent looking battle effect shown in the trailer.

https://i.imgur.com/wYgJonL.png https://i.imgur.com/aV2p2uT.png

These are awful.

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Surprisingly, I like the ice effect the most out the elemental skills they showed. Earth one just looks too derpy to me, feels like something from a pokemon game, while the fire and lightning ones are barely noticeable, hoping these get neater looking with upgrades like blm fire to fire 3, if they go that route.

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Originally Posted by SanibelIsland

From what I've seen, this job is not for me. Might be my age, because I am, I think a lot older then the average player. I like Krile, but pictomancer...nah, not really. It doesn't appeal to me in any way.

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Nah, not really age. I'm 44 and I think it looks like silly fun. I'm definitely going to try it.

To the topic at hand, as someone mentioned in the second or third post, new jobs always have people excited and people complain about them. I remember that even for something that was as wanted as Red Mage.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

- We dont know its job guage/resources

- We dont know all of its skills

- We dont know what sort of buffs or extra utility theyll be bringing to the party, besides lack of rez

- We dont know the rotation

- We dont know the meta


Yeah Im pretty sure just looking at vague skills and visual effects isnt fully enough to warrant to form a valid opinion of the job. Like I said, I understand first impressions but the trailer is so lackluster that any current opinions are at this point groundless. Try again

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Again, no one is making assessments based on how the job plays. That's impossible right now. What's silly is telling players that they need to play the job before they can pass judgment on it. My response to that is, "Since when?" I'm not sure you recognize how erroneous of a statement this is.

In order to get a players to care about...

- job gauge/resource
- skills
- utility
- rotation
- meta

...it has to get passed the door. If the dev team felt they were not under any obligation to catch the interest of players, the new job trailers wouldn't even exist. First impressions are always superficial, and it's what actually sales a new product. Food, cars, toys, movies, comic book covers, etc. They all do this.

Even if we want to use the "play it before you judge it" mentality, the dev team hasn't done themselves many favors due to the homogenous design of the game's jobs. If the jobs in the game were a harmonious blend of individuality, then this argument might have some gravity. Alas, they are not so a purely superficial impression is all they have to sell this job to players because they already have a good idea what they are going to get based on current job design. It leaves very little to get exited for, and Viper falls into this trap as well.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Nah, not really age. I'm 44 and I think it looks like silly fun. I'm definitely going to try it.

To the topic at hand, as someone mentioned in the second or third post, new jobs always have people excited and people complain about them. I remember that even for something that was as wanted as Red Mage.

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I can't talk for everybody (duh, captain Obvious Merri'), but it's the first time I have such a strong reaction to a job. I didn't really liked reaper, but it was just... "Meh, guess I will see".

Here the aeshtetics is so particular, that I had a strong reaction to it. The fact that it's so special in terms of rendering certainly explains the reticence of many, because I don't think the game contains any other classes as... original, let's put it that way.

Most common complaint I've seen is that the art isn't appealing. Then perhaps the whole idea itself following behind it (paint magic), but not immediately so.

I'm fine that it exists, though the art isn't my style. My thoughts is that means it's probably going to be more someone else's then. I do think it would potentially help if they can add some paint options, like if they were able to apply a shader to it for more or less cell shading, color swaps, etc (pick your own paints basically).

I think my largest annoyance with the job is not the job, but that it feels like a perfect limited job in concept but blue and beastmaster which are, imo, more main stays, are limited (plus we have active examples of MMO beastmaster, so unless the pets are amazingly designed it's just going to be the poor man's version of it anyways).

Hate is a strong word, but I definitely find the cartoony style off-putting enough that I am not interested in it at all. Or even eager to see those effects in my party (though I'm hopeful limited effects will make it mostly unseen for me). I am disappointed.

All that said, I don't mind that it's coming. Clearly, some find it exciting. I don't have to like every job. I already don't like some jobs. It's fine.

Class reminds me of Golden Sun Effects so the class is a win for me.

Reaper never received a bunch of hate considering it is pretty much a streamlined FFXI Dark Knight with a Devil Trigger Fell Cleave mode tacked on. The only hate it evewr got long term was that Endwalker launch it was overtuned and everyone loved it's selfhealing before it got nerfed.

I'm really just seeing a lot of whiners crying that it isn't Green Mage or Geomancer.

Green Mage was dead at it's inception given Green Mage was about defensive magic and status effects which XIV detests any kind of CC on enemies and especially bosses.

Geomancer is dead in the water since XIV technically considers Astrologians Geomancers alongside the Geomancer description in XI being similar to XIV Pictomancers. And Blue Mage uses Malediction of Water which is a Geomancer attack.

Geo in XI states "Geomancers (GEO) are arcane spellcasters that harness the power of geomancy to strengthen their allies, enervate their enemies, and provide much-needed support to the party. They assume many of the same support roles corsairs and bards do, and while they may not pack as much offensive firepower as black mages, they can employ elemental magic with ease. "

Whereas Pictomancers in XIV state "The pictomancer channels offensive elemental magic by creating a variety of artwork. In addition to hard-cast spells, they also have several instant cast actions, similar to other magical ranged DPS. They will also be able to buff nearby allies, similar to Red Mage or Summoner. They will not have access to a resurrection spell."

Huh wow. Boy that sounds familiar doesn't it.

Not to mention the Class brings it's own whimsical personality and therefore a unique identity to the roster of Job Classes available.

You've seen 4 elemental attacks, Moogle Beam/Blast, an artistic landscape of 3 Shooting Stars which is likely part of the Star Prism animation. And potentially a teaser of it's LB3 in the CG trailer with the flying Rainbow Paint/Slime creature Krile draws to life.

Sounds like the vocal minority on the forums can't ever be happy about anything and it's rather sad. You guys really want problems all the time.

If only you had the same enthusiasm Krile does for the new class: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP9TVAtSFjc

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

sevral people said its a GIRLS and LGBT only job (this is the most laughable 1 so far)

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as a lgbtq/girl/irl pictomancer.. i cant wait for this job!

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¯\_(ツ)_/¯

While I'm not against Pictomancer as a whole, it's really insulting they made a staple job like BLU Limited but not Picto. I love Relm from FF6, so it gets a pass given it's "classic," but there were so many better options. Like Mystic Knight or Geomancer.

I also hate the aesthetics of the job in XIV. It does not fit. It screams degradation of quality in all realms.

The effects do look a little too cartoonish...

One thing that would make it look much better in my opinion was if they transformed from that cartoonish look into the things they are actually supposed to be... Basically that the Pictomancer paints things into the world and they turn from paint into real ice, fire or rocks whatever else they can throw around.

As someone who really really wanted corsair, and shapeshifter caster, I don't get it. Pictomancer looks great! I can't wait to play it.

Like someone else said this is the Internet so this ain't nothing new, but people have really wrongly internalized that offering feedback or criticism is automatically something negative and bad and hateful.

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Originally Posted by Khryseis_Astra

There’s also the third group, which really loves Pictomancer and wants to play it, but were disappointed by the initial gameplay video and just want it to be as good as it can be. :)

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Originally Posted by Khryseis_Astra

For me personally, I’m offering feedback because I’m excited to play the class. And I want to love it! I don’t offer criticism on anything just to be negative, but because I love this game and want things to be even better.

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Likewise, I want to be more excited for Pictomancer, and the gameplay video was very underwhelming for me, which is why I've been giving feedback on the visuals. This is not out of hate for the job, this is not because I was expecting something entirely different like Green Mage, this is because I want it to be better than it currently is, because I know it can be.

Partly because FFXIV has some really good VFX already, and I was surprised that the Pictomancer ones weren't of the same quality or general art direction, and partly because, as has been shown in other threads, other games with similar classes have achieved visuals that are a lot more compelling than what we've seen so far.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

as a fine artist im gona biggg disagree with you.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

i am also a manga artist so i feel this appeals to me more

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The most important thing for an artist is to understand the nature of criticism and feedback, be open to it, and listen to it, even if you disagree with it at first. This is the one skill you learn in art school, and this is the main way you improve yourself as an artist. Subjectivity doesn't mean that it's someone's opinion against the rest of the world, but rather that there might be some truth in everyone's opinion, and it's up to the artist to find that truth in the feedback they receive, in the interest of perfecting their work.

It was a letdown after what we saw Krile do. Obviously I was never expecting it to look as good as that, but I did expect more colours, sparkling particles and butterflies, and I get that it's magical ink but I don't think it needs to be that cartoony.

Giving feedback isn't "hate", if a part of the community has a mostly negative opinion about it, we're gonna say what we think, and other people with different opinions are gonna do it too.

Labelling it as hate is even less productive than the splitting opinions.

Maybe can we agree that the spell effects should not look 'realistic?'

Alright so... I was just seeing what AI would make for example and it came up with this lol:
https://i.imgur.com/oRgSXgG.png

Makes me think Diablo's version of pictomancer XD.

Anyway.. uh.. what was I doing? Right-- I wonder rather than super cutesy if it had stronger watercolor or pastel look with more emphasis on blending into the environment, if that would help players? I do feel it's very cartoony and would look, probably, quite awful in a serious dark moody dungeon when it's your first go about on the MSQ, but beyond that I don't really care that I feel that way given you can also run around as a pig and a chocobo, and on topic of effects... I can turn down the player effects if I want.

I'd probably try to do more subtle changes to it at this point, perhaps a bit more detail or after the spell effect is launched it then gains more detail such that it is still 'colorful art' but doesn't look so... young (lack of definition, in specific conjunction to the bright colors and happy shapes, gives it a very 'young' 'cartoony' and semi 'childish' vibe).

Still thinking, while a bit painful, it would be cool if you can build up your paint selections and so players can choose some of these things themselves. For example if you want to be a moody/solemn/serious painter you might use inks (like Asian Ink painting), while someone else goes to 11 and adds freaking sparkles lol.

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Originally Posted by mallleable

As someone who really really wanted corsair, and shapeshifter caster, I don't get it. Pictomancer looks great! I can't wait to play it.

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SHAPESHIFTER LEETSS GOOO

And by god please make it normal @_@ (or dreams do come true and start making advanced jobs, my petty annoyances for blue would flip on their head if they were advanced 'best job ever').

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Originally Posted by mallleable

Maybe can we agree that the spell effects should not look 'realistic?'

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Definitly ! That's not the problem here. Most people seemed bothered by :

- The cartoon aspect
- The lack of resolution

I would personnaly add "too many colors" + Kawaii elements, but that weren't as problematic for the majority.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Nah, not really age. I'm 44 and I think it looks like silly fun. I'm definitely going to try it.

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I'm well in my 60's and after reading some comments, I think the "cartoon" effect is a let down for me. But never too old to learn something new, so who knows.:p

I don't have to play the job to say the visuals aren't for me. Way too colorful and cutesy.
I'll still play it regardless just to get all jobs to max but I doubt I'll do anything else on it.

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Originally Posted by Merrigan

Definitly ! That's not the problem here. Most people seemed bothered by :

- The cartoon aspect
- The lack of resolution

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I guess it was hard for them to settle on a skill animation style, so it ended up as cartoon.

I am more bothered by the gameplay of dps jobs, I do wonder why so many dots and summons got removed from classes, why everything is tuned for burst meta. Would probably have liked a necromancer guy that summons a horde of undead mobs more. Our battle system feels very basic compared to other MMO and other Online RPG games.

I don't know if the job will be wonderful or terrible or anything in between, I do know that the aesthetic and visual effects of it are not something I want to play as myself so I will not be playing it. I can also see how some of the visual effects, being quite large and very solid, could be bothersome to others in a party.

I haven't outright expressed hate for it, but I do think it sounds pretty cheesy. Just can't get onboard with defeating fearsome enemies with a brush and splashes of paint, but I'm sure some people will enjoy it.

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Originally Posted by mallleable

Maybe can we agree that the spell effects should not look 'realistic?'

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I think they should start off looking like a drawing, and solidify into a realistic effect as it's about to go off.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

I would’ve preferred Green Mage over Pictomancer since the color green and DoTs and debuffs are my jam but I’m willing to give it a shot and I’m OK with the Splatoon look of the spell effects.

If it ends up that it’s another turret caster it can go straight to the seven hells though.

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Prepare for disappointment. That’s what casters are. They literally said this job has spells with cast time. We saw several spells in the trailer with cast times.

It will have some instant cast spells, but casters are meant to stand still. Summoner being the outlier.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

I think they should start off looking like a drawing, and solidify into a realistic effect as it's about to go off.

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Would be cool if it looked like FFXIV concept art..
https://lds-img.finalfantasyxiv.com/...0912_mm_11.pnghttps://c4.wallpaperflare.com/wallpa...er-preview.jpg

I dont hate the new jobs we getting but im forever gonna stick with Reaper.
Viper and Pictomancer looks awesome which i will let never touch or play with LOL thats just me tho.

You said several people will unsub cus of pictomancer? XD what a bunch of little babies LMFAO let them unsub we dont need anymore crybabies lol

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Originally Posted by Rayne6665

I dont hate the new jobs we getting but im forever gonna stick with Reaper.
Viper and Pictomancer looks awesome which i will let never touch or play with LOL thats just me tho.

You said several people will unsub cus of pictomancer? XD what a bunch of little babies LMFAO let them unsub we dont need anymore crybabies lol

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So what if people want to unsub due to it? They can decide when/what it is that they unsub from.
Calling other crybabies for it just shows how childish you are about it.

I do think this will be a job that more people bounce off of faster than some others. I think a ton of people will level it at launch, and then go back to their main.

The thing a lot of people are forgetting is that we haven’t seen a majority of the jobs skills, or playstyle.

The other thing is that every single job will be getting new spells and abilities. Everyone is playing a version of their job that is two years old.

Summoner is likely getting access to new summons. Black mage will likely get bigger explosions.

Dragoon and Astrologian are getting reworks. If pictomancer isn’t for you there will be other jobs that will feel fresh.

I am indeed interested in how the job actually plays and my OCD nature means my casters will level it but the graphic aesthetic (as we have seen it so far)is a total turn off for me. So yeah disappointed. Don't want to play it. Will put it off as long as possible and try to convince my OCD self I don't HAVE to level all casters on my caster characters in the meantime.

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

So what if people want to unsub due to it? They can decide when/what it is that they unsub from.
Calling other crybabies for it just shows how childish you are about it.

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I say what i want to say XD call me childish all you want i don't really care tbh lmao . Moving on .

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

yo, this is getting wild. the job isnt even a week old and already people cannot handle it.

1 thread says its not neon enough, another says its too neon.
1 thread says the gear is too cartoony, 1 says its not cartoony enough
sevral people said theyre going to unsub just because of it
sevral said theyde kick pictomancers from there pf
sevral said picto was out of place in ff ( i guess they forgot about spriggan bombs, chocomog and cactuars)
sevral people said its a GIRLS and LGBT only job (this is the most laughable 1 so far)

and yea, btw i can cite all the times ive seen this if you wanna see it.. but what the actual hell people.. this job isnt even out yet and already people are going feral over it

as a lgbtq/girl/irl pictomancer.. i cant wait for this job!

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It's almost like people have different opinions, just as they always do.

It says a lot when it's not the job itself getting the heated discussion. It's the job's battle effects getting the attention in a game that's partially known for the style of its battle effects. With the appearance being different from the other playable jobs, it's bound to get a lot of feedback both positive and negative.

I was just about to post the same meme lynx :p

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

I was just about to post the same meme lynx :p

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I'm glad I'm not alone in my train of thought haha.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

If thats true then why are people being judgemental andys about the class when its still not released? Why go so out of their way to express such strong opinions both good and bad?

The only thing valid is just the concern of the paint aesthetic, everything else is moot.

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Its FFXIV, all jobs are is aesthetic. There are like 3 unique jobs in terms of gameplay and the rest are copy pastes with minor adjustments and 1 or 2 unique buttons out of 30. Most people play jobs based on the aesthetic first, and then later decide if they like the gameplay. If someone doesn't like the 7 year old girl's backpack stickers aesthetic for a job, they aren't going to care how it plays, they don't care about the rotation, they don't care what kind of support it gives, they don't want to play a job designed to look like kindergarten glitter glue.

Obviously: we have too many colorful, fanciful, playful looking jobs in this game already. It's time to put had stop on this nonsense!

Would someone please think of people exclusively interested in broody, dark and masculine aesthetics? It will be painfully hard for them to enjoy this job.

And I'm pretty sure pictomancer is genderlocked, too? Yeah, if you view the keynote in severse, slowed down by 50% you can see the message flashing in the background.
Says "GSRM only".

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Originally Posted by Burmecia

Obviously: we have too many colorful, fanciful, playful looking jobs in this game already. It's time to put had stop on this nonsense!

Would someone please think of people exclusively interested in broody, dark and masculine aesthetics? It will be painfully hard for them to enjoy this job.

And I'm pretty sure pictomancer is genderlocked, too? Yeah, if you view the keynote in severse, slowed down by 50% you can see the message flashing in the background.
Says "GSRM only".

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Because clearly there is no possible middle ground between Tellytubbies and Berserk

If they had gone for something more...dignified like a professional landscape artist aesthetic instead of cartoony grade schooler I think it would've been more broadly appealing.

I hope pictomancer becomes more in line with what we saw Krile do in the DT trailer- the glowy magic, sparkles and just prettiness. You see the brush strokes even amongst all of the effects and it's just very, very colorful. I'm an artist who loves color so it's right up my alley- Not every class has to appeal to everyone because that is how things currently are anyways. Reaper doesn't appeal to me at all, Astrologian and DNC do. Those don't appeal to everyone where reaper does and so on.
What we saw Krile do imo was very appealing but compared to what we were shown in the in game reveal, which felt more like Splatoon and looked kind of bland.

Less splatoon ink jets and instead, more sparkles and glowy effects and paintbrush strokes.

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Originally Posted by LynxDubh

I'm glad I'm not alone in my train of thought haha.

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I got you fam

https://c.tenor.com/S4nAT8jpuREAAAAC/tenor.gif

This board is full of negative people with no life who like to complain about everything. They're in the minority. Pay them no mind.

I feel like if the reveal trailer didn't have the character going "Tee-hee" and winking at us as she playfully splatoons the screen then the more vocal haters wouldn't have disliked it as much. Could chalk it up to dislike of 'cutesy' aesthetics or people wanting Pictomancer to be more serious looking art I guess.

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Originally Posted by Yuella

This board is full of negative people with no life who like to complain about everything. They're in the minority. Pay them no mind.

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The title of the thread is asking why the hate. Saying pay them no mind when the question was asked initially is kinda dumb.
People are allowed to dislike thing you like. As you said, pay them no mind.