I can't find the fun in this game any more

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

You forgot the part where you blame it on Wildstar ;)

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Lmfao now this is gaming

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Originally Posted by Mithron

It's sickening how they make BLU a limited job but Pictomancer a DPS. I love Relm from FF6, but BLU is the staple FF job..

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And what made Blue Mage a staple? It's functionality to essentially be anything and everything. A design direction completely at odds with mainline jobs and MMO design in general. Blue Mage simply cannot exist as the overpowered swiss army knife it normally is when balance between roles needs to be achieved. They are never going to allow for one job to split between roles. So that right there means a standard Blue Mage loses any aspects of being a tank or healer. You couldn't balance the absurd abilities it gets without turning them into a basic rotation that amounts to little more than animation fluff. You want regular job Blue Mage? All the spells you'd learn from mobs would be via questing, you'd get a standardized rotation like every other job in the game and you'd be a one trick DPS. Think of Red Mage or even Bard in a sort of "proc Caster" system. That's your mainline Blue Mage.

The only issue with limited jobs is how restrictive those limitations are. There's no reason they can't do Deep Dungeon or Eureka. Who cares if they're overpowered? That's the whole point. If that ever gets added then they're actually the best designed versions of themselves. They just need content.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

The game hasn't changed much between Heavensward to now. Changed, sure, but not much. It is just more of everything we already had.
Sounds more like your problem lies with you. You are probably burned out on FFXIV and need a long break from it.

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On the flipside. This is just a ridiculous take if I'm being blunt.

- Tanks lost an entire system, albeit one that became increasingly less relevant as Stormblood pressed on.
- Healers went from having several DPS abilities to one they spam. Not to mention, in Heavensward and even parts of Stormblood, is was impossible to GCD-less heal higher end content. You actually needed to consider when to use abilities like Medica II for optimization purposes. Nowadays, you won't touch that button whatsoever in at the Savage level. Even in a PF setting, both healers won't press more than ten GCDs between them.

Several jobs have been massively overhauled. Summoner is the obvious stand out but Astro, White Mage, Warrior, Dark Knight, Ninja, Monk and Bard all play vastly differently than they did from prior iterations. At a basic level, sure, you probably wouldn't notice some of the changes but for anyone playing them at even a decent level, many of those changes have been significant. And not necessarily good.

Whole systems like TP, boss movement, the aforementioned tank stance, MP management and buff synergy have either been removed or rendered largely irrelevant in some form or another.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

All I'll say is that it is impossible in real life to learn from something if you can't live through it. If I got shot by a firearm and am now dead, I am not going to learn how to dodge a bullet. If every other mechanic is going to check if someone is dead and if they are, the raid dies, no one is going to learn much of anything.

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You keep prattling this sentiment and it's objectively false. You don't need to live through a mechanic to understand how it functions. You simply need to see the end result. In fact, a fairly common criticism and frustration point in PF is getting someone who limped past their prog point without the slightest clue how the mechanic actually worked. I'll even cite myself as an example here given I struggled mightily with Classical Concepts 2. Living through that mechanic wouldn't have made me understand it any better. I was simply approaching in a poor way by attempting to rotate the whole arena in my head. Once I broke down the mechanic in a way that made sense, I seldom wiped to it ever again. Simply getting a damage down instead would have actually made the fight easier as we were well ahead of enrage upon cleaning. So what would a tank damage down or even death matter?

While Endwalker has definitely gotten too heavy handed with body checks, you need some of them otherwise it vastly reduces the difficulty of high end content. The alternative would be significantly steeper enrages where getting even a few damage downs was a guaranteed wipe. I don't think that would garner any better a response from players.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I admire yet pity that you somehow thought they'd do a 180 on this fanfest otherwise, considering that everything that was shown was very much expected. You should've jumped off the boat years ago if this the case, because really what were you expecting from this game at this point.

Im not saying this in spite, Im just questioning your logic with how you came to be disappointed and how somehow this keynote was your breaking point (especially since for a lot of people that were not happy with EW's post content, they;ve acknowledged and announced the return of exploratory zones and more). Cant feel sorry for you with this post but I suppose you're free to express it regardless if its nonsensical

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I expect good content. I don't mind if the content is the same and predictable, so long as it's good. This game's content hasn't been good for a long time now. That isn't a "burnout" problem or a "me" problem, that's an objective loss of quality being consistently shown.

What I expected:

1. Compelling and interesting story
2. Announcement of and emphasis on removal of 2 minute meta and major combat overhaul so every job actually feels unique and fun again
3. Actual cool and good new jobs that reflect what the player base actually wants and pulls from FF history and tradition and classic theme

What I got:

1. The most boring and least compelling story and trailer we've ever seen
2. Emphasis on nothing that matters, though this isn't uncommon from their past
3. Boring, uninspired and game worsening jobs that no one really wanted while insulting classic FF jobs

It's mostly 1 and 3 that are problem, they've been problems for a long time and continue to worsen, not improve, on top of everything else that considerably worsens

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Originally Posted by Mithron

*snip*

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Thank you for answering why you're unhappy.

1. I also didn't find the DT trailer very interesting, however, without actually playing the story how can you know if it's good or not? I mean while it looked like an island vacation to go do a colonialism, we have stuff like Solution 9 and space travel, so there is likely more to it than heading to a new continent to go do war crimes. *fingers crossed*
2. Why did you expect this? They've been progressively making the jobs easier. Did you have any reason to think they'd go back on this?
3. I feel like this is the real reason. You didn't get the job you were hoping for. Which one was it? Because both Viper and Pictomancer are past FF jobs.

I'm sorry you didn't get the job you were hoping for, but given the current state of jobs, it'd just be a reskinned role anyway. "Awww, they didn't paint gambler animations of top of my magic DPS. :("

Honestly same at times. A lot of us older veterans are getting tired. It’s par of course. Just take a nice long break before endwalker, log in for housing if you have it, but keep to your extended break. It’s healthy to rest right before we get deep into an entirely new saga of the games story. Take as long as you need.

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Originally Posted by Mithron

The most boring and least compelling story and trailer we've ever seen

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I still have no idea what is the narrative hook for Dawntrail.

Feels like we continue with the game for the sake of continuing, since it still prints money.

FFXIV is exceeding its original design lifespan and the dev team clearly wants to do other creative projects like FFXVI instead.

I'm very likely to play DT, so I'm not really in the same boat- BUT.. when I saw pictomancer as a normal job I literally had the same thought lol. "Wow.. this can be normal but blue got tossed into the limited pits? Pffft".

The trailer was still neat, but BLU has been a constant annoyance in my mind and it did temporarily taint this weird / different idea they had gone with as a normal job. Perhaps another reason why I don't really have any excitement for Painter, just jaded lol. I really hope they leave limited and go 'advanced' instead (add interesting mechanics to normal jobs, sometimes vastly different than a standard job). When Beastmaster hit the screen I was immediately hit with the idea that it would be a less interesting version of WoW's hunter, which is a 'normal' job, and would feel like a reskin of BLU (given BLU is also 'go to monster, get content').

I do feel since release they've made BLU limited more interesting, but it hasn't taken away the ache and it definitely is still in a state that I am not really sold on, feel it could be better as a limited job, would have preferred it normal (still, even after everything they've done), feel it would be best as an advanced, but at least I can now feel more "I guess I can see why some like it". If Beastmaster is just a half attempt, I seriously wish they would quit it. Pick things that are deliberately outside of a sane mind (like Onion Knight, or Xenogear/saga/Gundam/G-Warrior/Magitek Pilot, type stuff. I've never almost quit about anything else, yet BLU had me practically ready to leave (especially as release BLU was just plain bad). Honestly if WoW had not been making bad choice after bad choice it might have scooped me lol. Luckily for my own sanity, I'm not invested in Beastmaster and just feel bad for those who dreamed to play it normal. I sincerely hope they put substantial effort into it's limited concept so it doesn't feel like a giant choco turd on a dream to play it normal all for the sake of "but I can't figure it out" which sounds like a copout (and if they can give more polish to BLU that'd be nice too).

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

Man why are ppl still crying over tp and stances. It's been easily 5+ years since they were removed and yet you guys are Still here, still subbed knowing having had it literally confirmed that tp is Never comming back... asking for it back and complaining its not the same. Then play another game that is the same.. because its in the past and you have to accept this and move on. You can't just keep bashing every expansion because its not hw. The worst ffxiv expansion might I add.

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I don't care about TP maybe read the full post "Not to say I want all these changes reverted" <- What I said. I really don't want TP management back lol, so I don't know how I'm "crying" about not having TP anymore, I don't even want it, I don't want everything I listed there, I just want new and intresting changes in the combat.

If you want to be disingenuous about my post then you can, but I'll be sure to make my point here clear for you, This was meant to show how much has changed from HW > EW And you notice how most of those changes were removing something and not adding something? or at the very least making something easier or more homogeneous.

I will say I want tank stances and I think they could have worked, the issue with them was that it became the Parties job to manage and not really the tanks problem, it had some other issues but they could have worked, but I know it isn't realistic that we will have them again, so more of what I want is tank players to actually be more then glorified boring Melee DPS.

In summary my issues isn't that the game removed annoying things like TP management or cross class abilities, it's the fact it's been all removed without anything interesting replacing that, so yes the combat has become very stale and similar over the course of time, hence why people who enjoy Job design and class identity have been feeling burnt out

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

On the flipside. This is just a ridiculous take if I'm being blunt.

- Tanks lost an entire system, albeit one that became increasingly less relevant as Stormblood pressed on.
- Healers went from having several DPS abilities to one they spam. Not to mention, in Heavensward and even parts of Stormblood, is was impossible to GCD-less heal higher end content. You actually needed to consider when to use abilities like Medica II for optimization purposes. Nowadays, you won't touch that button whatsoever in at the Savage level. Even in a PF setting, both healers won't press more than ten GCDs between them.

Several jobs have been massively overhauled. Summoner is the obvious stand out but Astro, White Mage, Warrior, Dark Knight, Ninja, Monk and Bard all play vastly differently than they did from prior iterations. At a basic level, sure, you probably wouldn't notice some of the changes but for anyone playing them at even a decent level, many of those changes have been significant. And not necessarily good.

Whole systems like TP, boss movement, the aforementioned tank stance, MP management and buff synergy have either been removed or rendered largely irrelevant in some form or another.

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I don't consider any of those as major changes to combat, or to the game itself. Some jobs have had largish changes (which is a different thing), but all the fundamentals are the same, game mechanics are still handled the same, and overall the way one plays the game is the same.

Me neither, and all they were teasing in the fanfest was style over substance material.
Sure, i'd love to use multiple dyes but that'll keep me busy for maybe 10 minutes and then what? Where's the content? Am i just expected to dress up my character and then wait for my sub to run out? The jobs are all homogenised and are becoming increasingly dumbed down to where i don't want to play them anyways, and there's no content to take them into besides completely braindead dungeons and raids.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

Me neither, and all they were teasing in the fanfest was style over substance material.
Sure, i'd love to use multiple dyes but that'll keep me busy for maybe 10 minutes and then what? Where's the content? Am i just expected to dress up my character and then wait for my sub to run out? The jobs are all homogenised and are becoming increasingly dumbed down to where i don't want to play them anyways, and there's no content to take them into besides completely braindead dungeons and raids.

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Remember how much fun Dun Scaith was on day 1? How every job was actually hard to play and had dots to manage and the combat mechanics were actually interesting and engaging?

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Originally Posted by Mithron

Remember how much fun Dun Scaith was on day 1? How every job was actually hard to play and had dots to manage and the combat mechanics were actually interesting and engaging?

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Ahh yes, the days where every job had a dot on a 30 sec cd which you just pressed whenever it was up. So engaging and difficult.

I wouldn't say jobs were more difficult back then. They were just not very intuitive and annoying. DRG in 3.x was one of the worst iterations of the job, outside of it getting 1-shot by raid wides in coil because of low mdef.

Mechanics weren't that much more interesting either. It's just that the game was still fairly new so mechanic types hadn't been exhausted yet.

You'll note many mechanics were still donut/away from boss aoes. Tank busters. Towers. Stacks/spread. Knock backs. Prox aoes.

I love dun scaith, but its difficult because people just don't learn. Not because it was hard.

Play something else, old job design would have killed the game

Is this the daily "this game sucks" thread?

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Ahh yes, the days where every job had a dot on a 30 sec cd which you just pressed whenever it was up. So engaging and difficult.

I wouldn't say jobs were more difficult back then. They were just not very intuitive and annoying. DRG in 3.x was one of the worst iterations of the job, outside of it getting 1-shot by raid wides in coil because of low mdef.

Mechanics weren't that much more interesting either. It's just that the game was still fairly new so mechanic types hadn't been exhausted yet.

You'll note many mechanics were still donut/away from boss aoes. Tank busters. Towers. Stacks/spread. Knock backs. Prox aoes.

I love dun scaith, but its difficult because people just don't learn. Not because it was hard.

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You don't think HW jobs were harder to play optimally than EW jobs?

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Originally Posted by Mithron

You don't think HW jobs were harder to play optimally than EW jobs?

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Harder to play due to annoyances.

This is like people using dark souls as an example of difficulty.

The jobs themselves were janky in 3.x because they made literally everything annoying in 3.x.

You'll note that it basically killed the raid scene back then and they decided not to do that again.

I consider job design in 3.x frustrating, not fun.


Let's flip this another way, what did you think was difficult about jobs in 3.x, and what did you like about that design?

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Harder to play due to annoyances.

This is like people using dark souls as an example of difficulty.

The jobs themselves were janky in 3.x because they made literally everything annoying in 3.x.

You'll note that it basically killed the raid scene back then and they decided not to do that again.

I consider job design in 3.x frustrating, not fun.


Let's flip this another way, what did you think was difficult about jobs in 3.x, and what did you like about that design?

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There were other issues affecting the raid scene at the time it was really not solely down to the way the jobs functioned. We were also limited to a small pool of raiders, no pf, we had to wait between pulls for cooldowns etc I'm not saying there weren't problems although I find the term jank so vague it's hard to know exactly what it is you have an issue with. But I do wonder how different things would have been if they playerbase had access to basic qol things like cooldowns and cross world pf. I don't think HW was the peak or anything I just think the job iteration gets the brunt of the the bad rap when there were more glaring issues that just pissed everyone off.

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Originally Posted by OgruMogru

There were other issues affecting the raid scene at the time it was really not solely down to the way the jobs functioned. We were also limited to a small pool of raiders, no pf, we had to wait between pulls for cooldowns etc I'm not saying there weren't problems although I find the term jank so vague it's hard to know exactly what it is you have an issue with. But I do wonder how different things would have been if they playerbase had access to basic qol things like cooldowns and cross world pf. I don't think HW was the peak or anything I just think the job iteration gets the brunt of the the bad rap when there were more glaring issues that just pissed everyone off.

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We had pf in 3.x, just not cross world. As for the cd thing, we had that in 2.x and the raid scene was pretty healthy then. The coil entrances were always busy, and I was on Balmung at the time.


And I say they were janky because skill alignments and burst windows were wonky back then. I use DRG as an example because blood of the dragon was really terrible back then. Gierskogul reduced the time it was active by 10 seconds and the timings were weird. It was not intuitive.


Doesn't mean it was difficult to play. It was annoying.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

We had pf in 3.x, just not cross world. As for the cd thing, we had that in 2.x and the raid scene was pretty healthy then. The coil entrances were always busy, and I was on Balmung at the time.

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My bad meant to clarify both times i meant cross world and it was late into the patch cycle. We definitely still had to wait between wipes for cooldowns to reset during Heavensward. upwards of 5 minutes between wipes. The jobs had issues but the enforced time out between wipes in savage combined with the difficulty of the fights, and the job "jank" whatever that means were all a contributing factor.

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Originally Posted by OgruMogru

My bad meant to clarify both times i meant cross world and it was late into the patch cycle. We definitely still had to wait between wipes for cooldowns to reset during Heavensward. upwards of 5 minutes between wipes. The jobs had issues but the enforced time out between wipes in savage combined with the difficulty of the fights, and the job "jank" whatever that means were all a contributing factor.

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Yes but 2 of those factors (lack of pf and waiting between pulls) existed in 2.x, that was my point.


The fights being over-engineered didn't help either. So chock it up to janky combat then.




And jank means "not working very well"

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Originally Posted by Mithron

I expect good content. I don't mind if the content is the same and predictable, so long as it's good. This game's content hasn't been good for a long time now. That isn't a "burnout" problem or a "me" problem, that's an objective loss of quality being consistently shown.

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I'll be the one to break the bad news to you...umm...this is a "you" problem, and quite possibly a "burnout" problem. There isn't an "objective" loss of anything, just your own personal opinions. For example:

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1. Compelling and interesting story
2. Announcement of and emphasis on removal of 2 minute meta and major combat overhaul so every job actually feels unique and fun again
3. Actual cool and good new jobs that reflect what the player base actually wants and pulls from FF history and tradition and classic theme

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Only the first half of #2 would be "objective" here. The rest is entirely what you personally think or want, random attempt to appeal to "what the player base actually wants" (which is a huge group of people wanting many different things, as evidenced by the many positive receptions we've seen to the Picto and Beast announcements).

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1. The most boring and least compelling story and trailer we've ever seen
2. Emphasis on nothing that matters, though this isn't uncommon from their past
3. Boring, uninspired and game worsening jobs that no one really wanted while insulting classic FF jobs

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Everything here is pure personal opinion. Not one single aspect of it is "objective" in any way, shape, or form. For example, look at the ton of interest and posts that have appeared in just the past couple days about various aspects of the graphics update. That matters to a lot of people. It just might not matter to you, personally. And that's okay. It doesn't have to. But you're only going to frustrate yourself further trying to believe that your personal opinions are somehow objective facts, because reality will get in the way of that.

That's unfortunate. I personally loved Endwalker, and it tied everything that's happened since ARR into what has become my favorite plot of the entire Final Fantasy series. I hope you find a game you like. (And I don't mean that facetiously.)

A lot of the things you describe do seem subjective and limited to your own opinions. MMOs change over time and those changes aren't always something that is our cup of tea. If you want to try to stay, then sit and think about what you enjoyed about the things you used to enjoy. And then see either if some of that is still there or if there are new things you can enjoy about current content. For instance, while they have simplified jobs, that seems to have allowed them to make fight mechanics more complex. So maybe you can find enjoyment in that new dance. That's one thing that's helped me keep my interest since I started in 2.2. Even if I lament something lost, I look to see what I can enjoy in the changed game. And I have certainly left MMOs in the past 20+ years I've been playing them when they just weren't my cup of tea anymore.

If you can't find enjoyment, then maybe take a break for a bit. Indulge in something else and then come back and see if something sparks. If you're miserable, continuing to mire yourself in the misery isn't going to change things. That's not telling you to quit or unsub if you don't like things. Just to take some time away and give yourself a breather. If it still doesn't spark, it may be time to move on. But you might also be surprised that if you get away for a bit, things may not seem as bad when you come back, or you'll find a new enjoyment your dissatisfaction may not let you see now.

@ OP and others: Can we say it for what it is?

Personal opinions are not objective (i.e. story is bad, job design and meta is unfun).
"There's nothing to do." No, there is, just not something you want to do. And that is fine.
Endwalker's issues is that it was mid af, formulaic, and brought us everything we already had before (minus an exploration zone, which for some reason now everyone loves, but hated when eureka was current)
Criticize EW for actual laziness: i.e. not making new weapons for old raids (like a GNB Weapon for UCOB or something), skipping a crafted primal weapon for 6.4, viera/hroth hats, that sorta stuff.

Saying there is nothing to do isn't accurate because there is almost always something that you have not done. In Endwalker, for instance, if you have not cleared both DSR and TOP, got EO solo + the tiger mount, cleared each criterion and their respective savages, farmed every primal ex mount, cleared every savage, then there is something for you to do. But you don't have to and that is okay, it just means you are bored with the game and have exhausted doing whatever you wanted to personally do, not that there is nothing to do. Same with every other expansion. I have not done criterion savage nor have I done EW big fish nor have i done the DD at all.... that stuff just doesn't interest me. I'm not going to go say the game has nothing to do and is objectively boring though. Just boring to ME.

It's something that often happens on games in general every 404 hours of playtime

Don't be a slave to this game (or any other game). If you're not having fun, then find other games that you might find fun. This is just a game, not your whole life.