No exploratory content

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Originally Posted by Krokov

Speculation when we dont have all info yet nor do we know what else is planned for 7.0/7.x

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Going off the precedent laid down by the previous fanfests, we shouldn't expect much more then what we've already seen.

We're liable to just get the two new jobs and female Hrothgar detailed, and maybe the names of the new raids.

I don't want to shoot down 7.0 already... But I'm feeling underwhelmed with what they are adding.

I am really hoping we do NOT get a continuation of more Island sanctuary and criterion dungeons. This sounds incredibly dull, and leaves me questioning what we'll have to do for endgame content after the first 2 weeks of a patch cycle. I was also expecting another tank, not another melee DPS immiediatly after one had already been added in EW. It sounds like we are full steam ahead for more content dry patch cycles.

It's unfortunate to see them seemingly doubling down on Island Sanctuary and Variant Dungeon, which are two rather unsuccessful systems. There aren't any major systems that seem poised to shake the game up in any way.

This is honestly the first time I haven't really felt hyped towards an expansion announcement; At least I finally feel at peace just letting my house get auto-demo'd.

Best we can hope for Spreadsheet Sanctuary and Variant dungeon is that they listened to feedback and improve on those in 7.0

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Best we can hope for Spreadsheet Sanctuary and Variant dungeon is that they listened to feedback and improve on those in 7.0

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The problem is they don't listen to any feedback, or acknowledge any real criticisms we have of the game so we can't count on them making any improvements if they aren't even willing to address the problems in E.W.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

It's unfortunate to see them seemingly doubling down on Island Sanctuary and Variant Dungeon, which are two rather unsuccessful systems. There aren't any major systems that seem poised to shake the game up in any way.

This is honestly the first time I haven't really felt hyped towards an expansion announcement; At least I finally feel at peace just letting my house get auto-demo'd.

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This was an anti-hype event.

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Originally Posted by Archeron

The problem is they don't listen to any feedback, or acknowledge any real criticisms we have of the game so we can't count on them making any improvements if they aren't even willing to address the problems in E.W.

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Oh my, I am afraid you are wrong here. You see, they actually do listen to feedback. They simply choose to arrogantly ignore it and then tell players to get over it, such as by telling healers to play Ultimate (and of course, these healers magically never have to play anything other than Ultimate such that their concerns are assuaged).

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Originally Posted by Hurlstone

I do wonder if people would be so supportive if Koros and their legion was posting overly positive threads, but hay ho...

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So people tend to agree ideas the content of which they agree with, rather than agreeing or disagreeing solely based on who's speaking said content? The horror? Seriously, what craziness will people get up to next?

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

It's unfortunate to see them seemingly doubling down on Island Sanctuary and Variant Dungeon, which are two rather unsuccessful systems. There aren't any major systems that seem poised to shake the game up in any way.

This is honestly the first time I haven't really felt hyped towards an expansion announcement; At least I finally feel at peace just letting my house get auto-demo'd.

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If we could reasonably expect ingenuity among them, I'd have no problem with either seeing further development. I do think Exploratory Missions are fundamentally more efficient, iconic, and MMO-like content models, but hey. /shrug

My issue is that I don't think we can reasonably expect any significant interesting improvements to or ingenuity in those models. Or even in general...

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

If we could reasonably expect ingenuity among them, I'd have no problem with either seeing further development. I do think Exploratory Missions are fundamentally more efficient, iconic, and MMO-like content models, but hey. /shrug

My issue is that I don't think we can reasonably expect any significant interesting improvements to or ingenuity in those models. Or even in general...

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Bozja was fine honestly. It had duels, pretty polished and interesting 48-man content with actual stakes (e.g. threats of wiping), a nice progression system, significantly expanded base gameplay with Lost Actions (including a ridiculously fun permanent-IR Warrior with Lost Blood Rage) that I thought were actually more interesting than Eureka's. I think spawning NMs should be made a thing again though, but in a limited capacity (like only a few NMs to spawn in every zone instead of like 20), and they need to find a way to either get rid of FATEs or make them way more interesting on a gameplay level. It wasn't fun in GW2 (which is why I stopped playing that) and it isn't really fun here either.

The problem with exploratory zones is there is no system in place to keep them alive after the initial FOMO rush when everyone gets what they want and stops doing them. It's a bit ironic that Variant gets the same complaints but they have more future-proofing since they will be something that we will be able to go do at our leisure far into the future. Criterion is a little more limited but still has the factor that you can kind of choose when you want to interact with it.

The more involved aspects of exploratory content aren't designed like that. They rely either on large numbers of people to be able to get through without things like essences or lots of pre-planning and organization. They're not something you can just choose to jump into and be assured you will be able to progress. So they're popular at first when those large numbers of people are available but get more difficult to tackle when those numbers fall off. When I finally finished Eureka recently, most instances in NA prime time were lucky to field 30 to 40 people and most only when a popular NM was up. And the Echo can help but it isn't tuned high enough to make up for the loss with everything. And these are instances that have a maximum of what, 100 something?

Bozja is even worse. I've been languishing at mettle level 23 because I'm often the only person out there doing FATEs unless they lead to something. Most have gotten what they wanted from this content so there isn't a reason to go back to it and the game design makes it difficult to tackle it on your own.

Until they can fix that aspect of exploratory zones, why would they utilize development time for something designed with such a short shelf life?

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Originally Posted by Ransu

I will. You can unsubscribe though and spare us your trolling.

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You people need to stop mixing up criticism with trolling.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

The problem with exploratory zones is there is no system in place to keep them alive after the initial FOMO rush when everyone gets what they want and stops doing them. It's a bit ironic that Variant gets the same complaints but they have more future-proofing since they will be something that we will be able to go do at our leisure far into the future. Criterion is a little more limited but still has the factor that you can kind of choose when you want to interact with it.

The more involved aspects of exploratory content aren't designed like that. They rely either on large numbers of people to be able to get through without things like essences or lots of pre-planning and organization. They're not something you can just choose to jump into and be assured you will be able to progress. So they're popular at first when those large numbers of people are available but get more difficult to tackle when those numbers fall off. When I finally finished Eureka recently, most instances in NA prime time were lucky to field 30 to 40 people and most only when a popular NM was up. And the Echo can help but it isn't tuned high enough to make up for the loss with everything. And these are instances that have a maximum of what, 100 something?

Bozja is even worse. I've been languishing at mettle level 23 because I'm often the only person out there doing FATEs unless they lead to something. Most have gotten what they wanted from this content so there isn't a reason to go back to it and the game design makes it difficult to tackle it on your own.

Until they can fix that aspect of exploratory zones, why would they utilize development time for something designed with such a short shelf life?

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Short shelf life???
bozja and eureka are still popping to this day (in large part because we didn't get one in endwalker)
And doing bozja when it was current, i never had a lack of players in there.

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

Short shelf life???
bozja and eureka are still popping to this day (in large part because we didn't get one in endwalker)
And doing bozja when it was current, i never had a lack of players in there.

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Are they? What are the numbers like when you're in there every day?

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Are they? What are the numbers like when you're in there every day?

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On aether each zone still easily can get upwards of 100 people in peak hour and still generally has 10-20 in off peak, BA is still run every day. There is enough BA hosts to fight over the queue

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Originally Posted by Kazhar

I remember that exact same excuse after Endwalker fanfest.

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I am reminded of WoW and the player base's "It's just alpha! Stop complaining, this isn't the release version, obviously it isn't finished" (the point, however, is to voice complaints so that devs are aware of problems), "It's just beta, they'll fix it", "It's just PTR, they'll fix it"…

(Spoiler: they did not.)

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

The problem with exploratory zones is there is no system in place to keep them alive after the initial FOMO rush when everyone gets what they want and stops doing them. It's a bit ironic that Variant gets the same complaints but they have more future-proofing since they will be something that we will be able to go do at our leisure far into the future. Criterion is a little more limited but still has the factor that you can kind of choose when you want to interact with it.

The more involved aspects of exploratory content aren't designed like that. They rely either on large numbers of people to be able to get through without things like essences or lots of pre-planning and organization. They're not something you can just choose to jump into and be assured you will be able to progress. So they're popular at first when those large numbers of people are available but get more difficult to tackle when those numbers fall off. When I finally finished Eureka recently, most instances in NA prime time were lucky to field 30 to 40 people and most only when a popular NM was up. And the Echo can help but it isn't tuned high enough to make up for the loss with everything. And these are instances that have a maximum of what, 100 something?

Bozja is even worse. I've been languishing at mettle level 23 because I'm often the only person out there doing FATEs unless they lead to something. Most have gotten what they wanted from this content so there isn't a reason to go back to it and the game design makes it difficult to tackle it on your own.

Until they can fix that aspect of exploratory zones, why would they utilize development time for something designed with such a short shelf life?

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Talera? I made much the same comments in this thread

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...87#post6305787

...and was roundly shouted down.

Funny how you say the same thing I did , yet we aint seeing the same responses.

Odd. Innit?

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On aether each zone still easily can get upwards of 100 people in peak hour and still generally has 10-20 in off peak, BA is still run every day. There is enough BA hosts to fight over the queue
(3)

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Thats nice. Now tell us what the player numbers are on other datacentres.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Talera? I made much the same comments in this thread

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...87#post6305787

...and was roundly shouted down.

Funny how you say the same thing I did , yet we aint seeing the same responses.

Odd. Innit?




Thats nice. Now tell us what the player numbers are on other datacentres.

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The person asked for how many people were in an instance and I answered, crystal, primal, light and mana also have active BA discords so it’s not like “be on aether or die”

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

The problem with exploratory zones is there is no system in place to keep them alive after the initial FOMO rush when everyone gets what they want and stops doing them.

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I respectfully disagree with this, as I believe Cerberus and Ozma serve as the carrot on the stick to bring new players into older adventuring forays. While old content tends to get phased out as you can (for example) unsync an old raid to get a mount, the inherent progression inside adventuring forays makes skipping them directly for the reward not possible

I can at least say that my experience from starting bozja to getting my Cerberus was and will be one of the most fun things I have done in XIV. Delubrum Savage on itself probably clasifies as one of the best pieces of content in the game not because of inherent design, but by the atmosphere and sense of scale it imposes on anyone trying to tackle it

And exactly that journey is what keeps discord crews like ABBA and Lego steppers filling full raid groups for DRS, both of people trying to get their Cerberus and people that just enjoy re-running it with new players

At this point I may be almost done with bozja, missing some of the harder to obtain titles, but I keep coming back at it, I genuinely find the Lost action gameplay refreshing, so hoping into Bozja, chipping away at mettle or joining a DRS run, helping new players in the southern front farm fragments or taking over leadership in a CLL run full of first timers... I just keep coming back to it

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

The problem with exploratory zones is there is no system in place to keep them alive after the initial FOMO rush when everyone gets what they want and stops doing them. It's a bit ironic that Variant gets the same complaints but they have more future-proofing since they will be something that we will be able to go do at our leisure far into the future. Criterion is a little more limited but still has the factor that you can kind of choose when you want to interact with it.

The more involved aspects of exploratory content aren't designed like that. They rely either on large numbers of people to be able to get through without things like essences or lots of pre-planning and organization. They're not something you can just choose to jump into and be assured you will be able to progress. So they're popular at first when those large numbers of people are available but get more difficult to tackle when those numbers fall off. When I finally finished Eureka recently, most instances in NA prime time were lucky to field 30 to 40 people and most only when a popular NM was up. And the Echo can help but it isn't tuned high enough to make up for the loss with everything. And these are instances that have a maximum of what, 100 something?

Bozja is even worse. I've been languishing at mettle level 23 because I'm often the only person out there doing FATEs unless they lead to something. Most have gotten what they wanted from this content so there isn't a reason to go back to it and the game design makes it difficult to tackle it on your own.

Until they can fix that aspect of exploratory zones, why would they utilize development time for something designed with such a short shelf life?

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I mean.. Eureka right now, still has players doing it.. Even on a dead datacenter like Materia you can always find people in the zones working on their relics.

Same with Bozja, but to a lesser extent, there is always people doing something in there, mostly just cluster grinding since its easy gil. The worst part about Bozja is you cannot complete your relics without other people, where as eureka you can.

The same cannot be said for Variant dungeons, i've queued for them for a couple of days and haven't got a single pop, yes i could run them solo but that defeats the purpose of an MMO. For now i'm just doing it with FC members when we can all be online at the same time.
So why is it that 7 year old content still gets enough people to do the content with, but current content doesn't?

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Talera? I made much the same comments in this thread

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You have made the same comments multiple times, and have been shut down every single time.

Check out Content Acheivers discord for Elemental, you might actually get a surprise with how often BA runs and DR:Savage runs are being done.

Just because you don't want to go to the effort to find people to play with, it does not mean the content is dead.

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Originally Posted by Raraka

I respectfully disagree with this, as I believe Cerberus and Ozma serve as the carrot on the stick to bring new players into older adventuring forays. While old content tends to get phased out as you can (for example) unsync an old raid to get a mount, the inherent progression inside adventuring forays makes skipping them directly for the reward not possible

I can at least say that my experience from starting bozja to getting my Cerberus was and will be one of the most fun things I have done in XIV. Delubrum Savage on itself probably clasifies as one of the best pieces of content in the game not because of inherent design, but by the atmosphere and sense of scale it imposes on anyone trying to tackle it

And exactly that journey is what keeps discord crews like ABBA and Lego steppers filling full raid groups for DRS, both of people trying to get their Cerberus and people that just enjoy re-running it with new players

At this point I may be almost done with bozja, missing some of the harder to obtain titles, but I keep coming back at it, I genuinely find the Lost action gameplay refreshing, so hoping into Bozja, chipping away at mettle or joining a DRS run, helping new players in the southern front farm fragments or taking over leadership in a CLL run full of first timers... I just keep coming back to it

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I have cleared Ozma 385 times, I still run BA almost daily and host it as much as I can

Field content has an implicit replayability the rest of the game just completely lacks

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I have cleared Ozma 385 times, I still run BA almost daily and host it as much as I can

Field content has an implicit replayability the rest of the game just completely lacks

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Same could be said here.

Just one piece of gear to get to +2 and 2 relics to finish in Eureka and i will STILL go back and run BA because the content is actually fun, almost 7 years after it first released.

I still do BA twice a week, on a datacenter that is well below the population of any other (Materia).

And i know damn well that the same group i do BA with (Content Acheivers) run BA and DRS on Elemental DC multiple times a week.

These complainers are lazy and do not wish to actually play the game, that is the simple truth of the matter.

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Originally Posted by Fourbestintoner

Please understand, they must spend all their budget pandering to graha fujos.

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By giving him a grandma face?

Yoshida has disclosed in a Famitsu interview that they are planning a new type of battle content (probably) for 7.X, as well as stating that the next iteration of exploratory content is being discussed.

Source: https://www.famitsu.com/news/202307/30311422.html

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――After Variant Dungeon and Another Dungeon, do you have any plans to develop new 4-player ending content in the future? What kind of feedback have you received so far? Also, is it safe to assume that there won't be any new content for 72 players in the future after the implementation of this content?

Yoshida: The systems of Variant Dungeon and Another Dungeon are very complete, so we'll start by creating end-game content for four players in this series. Of course, we would like to continue to reflect the feedback we receive, and power it up with casual and exciting content, but for the time being, the end content for 4 players will continue with the Variant Dungeon and Another Dungeon series. I am planning to go.

　However, we are currently in the process of planning a completely new type of battle content that has never existed before. We are also discussing what to do with the next series for large-scale games like "Southern Bozja Front" and "Forbidden Land Eureka" that use the entire area, and we plan to take on new challenges.

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I find it very hard to believe that a man who'd die working on FFXIV would suddenly give up his life's work for middling single-player content. V&C was obviously an experiment that just didn't hit the right notes. I'm glad he's addressing this obvious inconsistency in his attitude, but the "new content" needs to come sooner rather than later. As in, 2024 or early 2025.

Those on the forums who are tripping themselves defending V&C might want to look at the Famitsu interview, because it looks like Yoshida would disagree with you that the game is "fine as-is". He wants to improve it (as us naysayers do), much to your chagrin.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

i hate variant dungeons
i hate variant dungeons
i hate variant dungeons
i hate variant dungeons

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Much better than boring zone where all you do is Fate farm in some boring locals. Bozja was the most snooze fest aesthetically.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Much better than boring zone where all you do is Fate farm in some boring locals. Bozja was the most snooze fest aesthetically.

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Is it though? You're doing the same thing essentially in a variant dungeon, except objectively Bozja gives you more to do.

Variants can't match Castrum or Dalriadia, it can't match DR or DRS, there is no expanded skill system with lost actions, no customization, no horizontal progression, hell even the stories are less cool than what Bozja tried to do, which yeah it had its problems but in comparison the stories of Varaint have been:

Whats in Nanamo's basement??
Help the merchant guy find a pipe.

Neat lore dumps at best, boring filler at worst.

Bozja's rewards also completely shit all over Variant Dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

Is it though? You're doing the same thing essentially in a variant dungeon, except objectively Bozja gives you more to do.

Variants can't match Castrum or Dalriadia, it can't match DR or DRS, there is no expanded skill system with lost actions, no customization, no horizontal progression, hell even the stories are less cool than what Bozja tried to do, which yeah it had its problems but in comparison the stories of Varaint have been:

Whats in Nanamo's basement??
Help the merchant guy find a pipe.

Neat lore dumps at best, boring filler at worst.

Bozja's rewards also completely shit all over Variant Dungeons.

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It absolutely can be. I think the point is that practically everything you've tried assigning value to there is nothing but your own personal opinion. Other people can have different opinions. Stories being "cool" is entirely subjective, and other things like a series of extra "lost actions" to learn or horizontal progression can just as easily be a turn-off for some people as it is engaging for others.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

Is it though? You're doing the same thing essentially in a variant dungeon, except objectively Bozja gives you more to do.

Variants can't match Castrum or Dalriadia, it can't match DR or DRS, there is no expanded skill system with lost actions, no customization, no horizontal progression, hell even the stories are less cool than what Bozja tried to do, which yeah it had its problems but in comparison the stories of Varaint have been:

Whats in Nanamo's basement??
Help the merchant guy find a pipe.

Neat lore dumps at best, boring filler at worst.

Bozja's rewards also completely shit all over Variant Dungeons.

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I had a much better and fulfilling experience in variants and trying to go for all paths than exploratory zones. Literally were arguing over something that's much more short and complete all the way through compared to a content that is long, and paced so horrible because of the grinds.

This is almost the same argument, idiots make over how they judge a game's quality because it has 200+ hours of content but never point out how shallow and padded out the content is to meet that criteria. It's just mind boggling that people are so desperate to have their time wasted even if the activities aren't fun the whole way through.

I agree that the rewards suck but honestly I find more fulfillment just getting all the entries and calling it a day.

The Exploratory content was Island Sanctuary and any fight related fight/lore was Variant & Criterion Dungeon they just aren't related to the relic.

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Originally Posted by AmpelioB

The Exploratory content was Island Sanctuary and any fight related fight/lore was Variant & Criterion Dungeon they just aren't related to the relic.

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This must be the worst cope I've ever seen...

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Thats nice. Now tell us what the player numbers are on other datacentres.

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Sounds like your datacenter just sucks. Pretty much everyone keeps telling you that Eureka is alive and well but apparently it's not on your datacenter. Sucks to suck I guess.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I had a much better and fulfilling experience in variants and trying to go for all paths than exploratory zones.

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Tell me, were you more fufilled when you pushed the tree down to make the bridge over the cliff, or the big rock?

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Yoshida has disclosed in a Famitsu interview that they are planning a new type of battle content (probably) for 7.X, as well as stating that the next iteration of exploratory content is being discussed.

Source: https://www.famitsu.com/news/202307/30311422.html

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They always hype up new features. I still remember how they hyped up Diadem, but it just remained trash.

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

You people need to stop mixing up criticism with trolling.

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Koros is a known troll and nothing about the content of this thread states any form of criticism from the OP initial post. It was a pure troll post.

I didn't like Eureka nor Bozja that much anyway. Well, BA was the best over 24man "raid" I've experienced in this game next to Pre-"Nerf" Orbonne Monastery.
I do think Varient Dungeons are really bad reward wise and 12 runs for the mount is really dull and boring.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

[...]Or you could yknow, just not respond to his threads and move on with your life, but obviously you love to give him attention eh ?

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Ngl, despite that many people cry 'they're troll(s)!!', these 'trolls' actually instigated many discussion nowadays than real people lol.

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Originally Posted by Fortecael

This must be the worst cope I've ever seen...

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For all we know this was the dev's logic behind it.
I'm getting so sick of the word "cope"

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Originally Posted by Ransu

You literally only ever complain about this game and never have any valid criticism. You are no better than the Titan trolls.

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Originally Posted by True-to-Caesar

Literally 0 argument to what Stormpeaks said, only pitiful attacks. You’re just proving him/her correct.

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. /10chars