7.0 doomium has got to stop

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It's players who have the human psychology of enjoying being in an environment with other living people and being able to interact with them, but they want to do it at their own controlled pace and not be forced into having responsibility to other people for mechanics, performance, etc.

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Nailed it, thanks. BTW your crafter pvp post had me giggling my head off last night.

Bravo.

I, like many others, do not like to be FORCED into socialising, I prefer to do it when it suits ME. Hence my continued reluctance to the point of literally noping out of after workplace "socialising"..I had to tolerate these..people..in my work hours,. but other than that I wanted nothing to do with them.

Which is entirely the problem; that is not what 14 was designed as

Now I’ll fully accept the title of 14 boomer screaming at clouds but you can’t deny from our perspective we’ve been shafted pretty hard here, we built this game into what it is, it was our contribution that allowed them to bounce back from legacy and then when the game gets worldwide popular they basically dump us off for appealing to the people who basically want a living lobby for their single player game

Again I know I’m a boomer screaming at clouds and I know the approach square has gone with is more profitable because it has a wider audience and they have to do less work but that doesn’t mean I won’t continue to be annoyed they won’t even meet me in the middle on anything anymore

If you dumped someone who started in 6.x into 3.x they would probably combust on the spot, now that doesn’t mean we have to go back to 3.x but come on, there is little of the game I stuck with through legacy even left anymore

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they basically dump us off for appealing to the people who basically want a living lobby for their single player game

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With all respect, your conclusions leave little room for a middle ground between the two. That can be done, you know, it doesnt have to run from one extreme to the other.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

With all respect, your conclusions leave little room for a middle ground between the two. That can be done, you know, it doesnt have to run from one extreme to the other.

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I think you’ll find most extremely old players would agree something of SB calibre is a perfect middle ground,

for people who invested time into mastering complex jobs and finding rewards in a variety of levels of content SB wasn’t too overly homogenised, meanwhile it wasn’t unapproachable like alot of HW was or straight up unintuitive like legacy or ARR was, but it also wasn’t excessively casual focused to the detriment of a lot of the older players like a good chunk of ShB and EW are

Now I’m not saying return to 4.0 im using it as a yard stick, SB had its fair share of missteps (SB lilies I’ll never forgive how terrible you were) but in hindsight it was probably the most balanced of the 4 expansions from the perspective of how the gameplay balance has changed

Supersnow: we both would agree that when we discuss HW and SB expansions, players are more than happy to state that there are things removed they NEVER want to see again.

Combat cross class changes? Having yo learn one skill on one character to be able to use it on another? Theres complexity, then theres needless complication. I agree its a hard balance to keep

From a crafters POV? Heavensward crafting?

UGH GOD no thanks...that was a hot mess. The crafters "specialist actions" like "whistle whilst you work"? Didnt.

When they were removed, no one was sorry to see them go. No one.

I cant speak as to balance, but I was an SMN main back in 2019, I thank the devs for what it is now. My hands DEFINITELY say thank you.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Supersnow: we both would agree that when we discuss HW and SB expansions, players are more than happy to state that there are things removed they NEVER want to see again. From a crafters POV?

Heavensward crafting? UGH GOD no thanks...that was a hot mess. The crafters "specialist actions" like "whistle whilst you work"? Didnt.

When they were removed, no one was sorry to see them go. No one. I cant speak as to balance, but I was an SMN main back in 2019, I thank the devs for what it is now. My hands DEFINITELY say thank you.

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Yes there are things that were removed that shouldn’t come back, that’s literally not my point at all, my point is that SB of the 5 expansions offered the best balance between retaining the old complexity of HW without making it excessively anti casual, that doesn’t mean SB was perfect nor would I suggest winding the game back to SB, I’m simply using it as a very broad yard stick of the state of the game

Pointing to specific “things” that were particularly bad in one expansion or another don’t change my point (I don’t actually care about SB lilies I just make a point to include them in every post I make that references stormblood), my point is HW and ARR are too old and messy, ShB and EW are too casual focused and streamlined, SB provided the best central balance

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my point is HW and ARR are too old and messy, ShB and EW are too casual focused and streamlined, SB provided the best central balance

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Apologies, I may have misread your intent. I agree.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

When you can point me to "widespread" feedback outside this echo chamber, let me know.

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Calls the forum an echo chamber but won’t leave the confines of his own bubble

Ironic

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

[...]we built this game into what it is, it was our contribution that allowed them to bounce back from legacy and then when the game gets worldwide popular they basically dump us off for appealing to the people who basically want a living lobby for their single player game

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Yeah, I think that's a brutally-accurate way of summarising it.

The thing is, I think that a more... uh... I don't know the right buzzword, "agile" maybe? ...development team, or company, or whatever, might well have been able to do both.

Or hell, I mean SWTOR, for example, just gives their "Story Mode" duties a cracked and overpowered companion-helper who basically tanks, heals, and kills everything for you... and then they otherwise just leave the design of the "dungeons" alone, because Super Helper won't let you die no matter how badly you're mangling the mechanics.

———————————————

...But XIV's devs have... uhhh I'm lacking the vocabulary for a good word, but like, "Person who can never just do anything simply, and has to overthink and overcomplicate everything"... syndrome.

Like they can't just create the option of queuing into "Story" versions of instances with a nutter Echo buff that lets you just solo it and move on.

Instead they have to overdesign it, and make it a full-fledged "feature", with individual NPC companions with distinct personalities, and rotations, and commentaries, and unique AI reactions and behaviors for everything.

...Which then bloats the design and development time immensely for a feature that isn't really "content" at all for any of their playerbase that doesn't want to solo — but still eats up resources to implement.

———————————————

It's the kind of overthinking and "robust" solution that always seems super-charming "on paper"... but then becomes kind-of questionable in the long-term, after the initial novelty wears off.

Then, once they've already done it and stuck their feet into the metaphorical "quicksand", they're now "trapped" with continuing to hemorrhage time and resources into developing and supporting said bizarro-feature indefinitely... when they could have just chosen a way more efficient solution to begin with, if they weren't so obsessed with "doing it in a unique and clever way that's special and a feature".

See also: Blue Mage, Island Sanctuary, Lord of Verminion, Squadrons, Diadem, etc.

And this issue isn't limited to XIV's team, it's just a game-designer weakness to be sucked into stubborn, overambitious, somewhat-irrational ideas that end up becoming dubious development-sinks — see WOW's Garrisons.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Bad example. "Story Mode" for SWTOR was always playable solo.

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Hi, that's literally factually inaccurate!

SWTOR in fact has a "Story Mode" of every single plot-related "dungeon", created as a separate version, which the Story guides you through, and gives you a helper NPC to make it basically unfailable.

And this was implemented specifically because players complained about needing to find groups to complete the "dungeon" storylines which were pretty important to the plot and storytelling — and absolutely, 100%, could not be solo'd, especially in the early days before it got powercreeped like MMOs always do.

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Originally Posted by Eorzean_username

Or hell, I mean SWTOR, for example, just gives their "Story Mode" duties ...

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Bad example. "Story Mode" for SWTOR was always playable solo. World of Warcrafts "story" was always playable solo. Rifts "story" was always playable solo. Why?

Because story mode in other MMORPGs did not require a single dungeon or trial instance in order to move to end game. Heck, you could get to max level by picking herbs in WoW.

But their point is still valid that trusts are a massive overdeployment of resources that fixes the problem in the most complex and time consuming way possible when they basically could have just given solo people BLU’s basic instinct in dungeons if they want to queue solo and move on with it

Canonically we fight almost everything pre azem’s crystal solo anyway so it’s not even like it’s lore inconsistent

Fact is as much as they are trying to future proof the game, trusts are a huge commitment of resources that give literally zero benefit to people already playing and is made worse by the fact they already have a solution built into the game

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

But their point is still valid that trusts are a massive overdeployment of resources that fixes the problem in the most complex and time consuming way possible when they basically could have just given solo people BLU’s basic instinct in dungeons if they want to queue solo and move on with it

Canonically we fight almost everything pre azem’s crystal solo anyway so it’s not even like it’s lore inconsistent

Fact is as much as they are trying to future proof the game, trusts are a huge commitment of resources that give literally zero benefit to people already playing and is made worse by the fact they already have a solution built into the game

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I'll agree to disagree. Tenth anniversary is the perfect time to start future-proofing the game. Every MMORPG out there has a flex point where there are fewer players around than the year before. SE has the numbers to indicate how popular the Duty Trusts actually are. They made the decision to move that technology into the 2.0, 3.0 and 4.0 expansions now. There was never going to be a better time to do something like this.

Your assertion that something like BLU's 'Basic Instinct' would be enough is false at its core. There's a reason it's combined with Mighty Guard (and negates the penalty) and White Wind in early instances. It provides zero damage reduction. It does not heal.

Working with a team is the objective here ... as that is what is required at max level (and every earlier max level) in order to perform in instances that are not part of the MSQ.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

I'll agree to disagree. Tenth anniversary is the perfect time to start future-proofing the game. Every MMORPG out there has a flex point where there are fewer players around than the year before. SE has the numbers to indicate how popular the Duty Trusts actually are. They made the decision to move that technology into the 2.0, 3.0 and 4.0 expansions now. There was never going to be a better time to do something like this.

Your assertion that something like BLU's 'Basic Instinct' would be enough is false at its core. There's a reason it's combined with Mighty Guard (and negates the penalty) and White Wind in early instances. It provides zero damage reduction. It does not heal.

Working with a team is the objective here ... as that is what is required at max level (and every earlier max level) in order to perform in instances that are not part of the MSQ.

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You’d think since the tenth anniversary coincided with the most popular expansion by playerbase at launch that future proofing the game would be pretty far down the list of things to do behind….you know actually releasing content for all the people joining the game, regardless it doesn’t change trusts are way too complex for what they need to do

I said basic instinct as an example, basic instinct for main jobs could just be combined with mighty guard and white wind as role actions, the point was that trusts are too complex of a solution for the problem

And the whole point of this is it’s for people who don’t want to learn to actually work with other people, if they were fine working with other people you wouldn’t need duty support in the first place because you would just queue with actual players

It seems to me that the people who are in the best position to determine whether or not Duty Trusts are suitable for early leveling experience have already decided. You appear to disagree with the choice to attract players who might want to play through the MSQ without joining a group of real players. Square Enix apparently thinks it a good idea.

It's done. And complaining about it is kind of silly at this point.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

It seems to me that the people who are in the best position to determine whether or not Duty Trusts are suitable for early leveling experience have already decided. You appear to disagree with the choice to attract players who might want to play through the MSQ without joining a group of real players. Square Enix apparently thinks it a good idea.

It's done. And complaining about it is kind of silly at this point.

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It's almost like people defend the fact FFXIV is an MMORPG, no way, next you're going to tell me that when the sky is clear of clouds it's actually blue ? no way !

Next, I'm going to tell you that the sky's "color", whether it is obscured by clouds or not, is due to Rayleigh scattering. It is not because someone painted it that way.

And then, I'm going to tell you that MMORPGs can utilize Trust systems because the term "Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game" doesn't imply they can't exist.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Next, I'm going to tell you that the sky's "color", whether it is obscured by clouds or not, is due to Rayleigh scattering. It is not because someone painted it that way.

And then, I'm going to tell you that MMORPGs can utilize Trust systems because the term "Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game" doesn't imply they can't exist.

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They can exist, but it still doesnt fit an MMORPG.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Next, I'm going to tell you that the sky's "color", whether it is obscured by clouds or not, is due to Rayleigh scattering. It is not because someone painted it that way.

And then, I'm going to tell you that MMORPGs can utilize Trust systems because the term "Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game" doesn't imply they can't exist.

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Trust should have been implemented later in the games life when there is significantly less players to not allow to easily que for things similar to how ff11 implemented them later in its life when there was less players to party with to do endgame.

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

Trust should have been implemented later in the games life when there is significantly less players to not allow to easily que for things similar to how ff11 implemented them later in its life when there was less players to party with to do endgame.

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Trusts were already implemented back in ShadowBringers. And in Endwalker. Why wait? To please those who think "MMORPG" should force players to go through the story dungeon accompanied by players who despise going through them in roulettes?

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Trusts were already implemented back in ShadowBringers. And in Endwalker. Why wait? To please those who think "MMORPG" should force players to go through the story dungeon accompanied by players who despise going through them in roulettes?

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MMO games are meant to be social games and played with people not for anti-social people who can't be bothered or not want to play with anyone thats what single player games are for

I see 0 issue with trusts honestly. Gives an option for those who just wanna solo. For the argument that it's an MMO and there shouldn't be solo. The chat is still a thing. Even if you're solo, you can still talk to people all you want.
If anything I say things like chats being locked (like in cc or TT open tournaments) are far worse for an MMO then the trust system. Never felt more alone then during that content, yet I'm playing with others.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

They can exist, but it still doesnt fit an MMORPG.

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The definition of what an MMO is or isnt, is nowhere near the narrow definition you seem to espouse. i dont know how many times this has to be said: ( Josh Strife Hayes did some brilliant videos on this point by the way, you really should look at them ) but an MMO means a game with people in it, it doesnt mean you have to play WITH others. As also has been noted time and again, you cannot force people to be social.

Stormpeaks: Try this for a concept: You can be completely alone in the middle of a massive crowd in any capital city on New Years Eve.

This may be of some help

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcGezDYNLIU&t=263s

One of the comments illustrates the concept

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There was a quote I heard once something like “I don’t want to be alone, I want to be left alone.” There is something to be said about being around others but yet having privacy for yourself. Many people view this as the ideal environment.

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Oh and how often have I commented on the " go go go go go go go": mentality?

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I play solo because everyone always wants to blast through everything at warp speed and I want to look around, explore and enjoy the beautiful environments. I also like seeing other players and then seeing me but partying up makes it almost like a job, not relaxation.

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This is one of the many reasons Trusts exist.

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MMO games are meant to be social games and played with people not for anti-social people who can't be bothered or not want to play with anyone thats what single player games are for.

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Define "anti social".

By the way, just curious, maybe you can help me with this one Nebelheim:

See as I understand it, one of the ways to be "social" in an MMO is to join a guild or an FC., right?

You spend time with these people, you talk to them, play alongside them..so this is what you'd call social interaction, right?

Part of "being social in an MMO" - right?

Okay good.

Now then: with that in mind, these people with whom you have formed these so called 'social bonds"? Explain to me then why it is that people you have known for a long time and are supposedly people you want to socialise with and are supposedly "friends"...dump you in a heartbeat when and if you leave the guild or FC.

I mean, they are friends, right? Real friends dont just slam the door on you...do they? No, they dont.

People with whom you have had long term "social interaction", right?

Yet all of a sudden when you leave the FC they dont know you from a bar of soap. Dead silence.

Kinda makes you wonder if this so called "social interaction in an MMO" has the depth and meaning of a water puddle.

Doesnt it?

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Define "anti social".

By the way, just curious, maybe you can help me with this one Nebelheim:

See as I understand it, one of the ways to be "social" in an MMO is to join a guild or an FC., right?

You spend time with these people, you talk to them, play alongside them..so this is what you'd call social interaction, right?

Part of "being social in an MMO" - right?

Okay good.

Now then: with that in mind, these people with whom you have formed these so called 'social bonds"? Explain to me then why it is that people you have known for a long time and are supposedly people you want to socialise with and are supposedly "friends"...dump you in a heartbeat when and if you leave the guild or FC.

I mean, they are friends, right? Real friends dont just slam the door on you...do they? No, they dont.

People with whom you have had long term "social interaction", right?

Yet all of a sudden when you leave the FC they dont know you from a bar of soap. Dead silence.

Kinda makes you wonder if this so called "social interaction in an MMO" has the depth and meaning of a water puddle.

Doesnt it?

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If people feel the need to randomly stop being my friend if i decide to leave a FC or raid group then they werent really friends and i would find new friends. The only time i would leave a Fc or group is if they make me feel i didnt belong in there circle.

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/f/3...7fc0_96x96.jpg

yikes wtf happened

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

If people feel the need to randomly stop being my friend if i decide to leave a FC or raid group then they werent really friends and i woul find new friends.

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A friend is someone who values you as a person. Not just a convenience in a video game.

What you are describing is an acquaintance, and little else beyond that. So with that in mind, perhaps you may want to rethink what your definition or actual understanding of what "anti social" is.

OK I realise I'm going into pedantic nerd mode here and this really doesn't matter, but honestly.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Bad example. "Story Mode" for SWTOR was always playable solo.

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I already noted that is literally a lie, whether intentional on your part or not, as an edit to my previous post.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

World of Warcrafts "story" was always playable solo. [...] Because story mode in other MMORPGs did not require a single dungeon or trial instance in order to move to end game.

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I started to reply, but then I realised I don't even understand what you're arguing.

It feels like you're just kind of jumping the tracks randomly back and forth here?

Like first you talk about "story" being "playable solo", but then you talk about "reaching end game" by picking herbs... which has nothing to do with solo story progression.

Are you talking about just

a) literally leveling a character to max level

b) or like... seeing all of the storylines and completing all the content?

Because if it's "a" then you can technically do that in FFXIV too if you're stubborn enough.

If it's "b" then... that's not accurate? For your WOW example, it literally ties it leveling storylines to its leveling Dungeons, usually as the capstone that completes each zone storyline. You also need to do at least the LFR version of the Raids if you want to understand the complete story of each expansion.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

A friend is someone who values you as a person. Not just a convenience in a video game.

What you are describing is an acquaintance, and little else beyond that. So with that in mind, perhaps you may want to rethink what your definition or actual understanding of what "anti social" is.

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Either way i would just meet new people until i find people that do value me rather then taking the experience of people dropping me and playing solo the rest of FF14's existence.

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Originally Posted by Koros

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/f/3...7fc0_96x96.jpg

yikes wtf happened

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jealous of his brows?

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Originally Posted by Eorzean_username

OK I realise I'm going into pedantic nerd mode here and this really doesn't matter, but honestly.

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Completion of the MSQ is not "completing all the content" in this game. Dungeon instances in the MSQ are not optional, unlike every other MMORPG I've played over the past two decades. That is the reasoning behind my comments.

Better?

Repetitive doomium posts that are all essentially the same thing but with slightly different titles is why I spend about 5 minutes here lately, whereas before I would run out of posts. Got a bit dull.

The game will be fine for some years now. Some will probably be here daily for all of those years with their end of days posts, but it's hard to keep interest in the same conversation over and over.

I mean I am waiting to see what is showcased at all the fanfests as a few announcements could easily sway me to being excited. I would love to see some missing things from Endwalker like an exploration zone or a new restoration effort for example.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Completion of the MSQ is not "completing all the content" in this game. Dungeon instances in the MSQ are not optional, unlike every other MMORPG I've played over the past two decades.

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"Are not optional" for what, though?

I'm asking because you keep ping-ponging around from "play the story" to "reach end game", and so I'm not clear on specifically what you're referring to the MSQ gating.

I'm not arguing that the MSQ hard-gates a lot of content (it obviously and inarguably does), I'm just trying to figure out specifically which gate you're trying to compare to other games.

All I am going to say is

7.0 doompost exists?

Also there are only 2 things I really want.

1. Job complexity. You can homogenize jobs without simplifying them and making them brain dead. Dancer is a really good example of job complexity homogenization when done correctly.
2. Better rewards for Criterion Dungeons. Give me a reason to want to do them. I have not finished the first nor even started the second. I was really excited about that too.

Outside of that I think its a solid game.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

The ongoing success of the entire FF franchise says otherwise.

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Ongoing success? I wonder why, then, FF16 sales numbers cratered after the first week.

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Originally Posted by Koros

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/f/3...7fc0_96x96.jpg

yikes wtf happened

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

On other news, I just grabbed some fantasias and that new jump emote. ;);););)

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Fantasia addiction is like a crack addition, the more you indulge, the more it destroys you physically.

Can we all give a moment of silence for VelKallor's bunny girl?

https://media.tenor.com/T914ACwG75UA...ake-salute.gif

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

jealous of his brows?

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I would gladly give up my eyebrows if it meant not looking like that.

Putting this here in case you missed my own edit:

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

My point stands, you're just being more open about it than usual.

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If you're going to edit a post where someone replied to it later, at least be transparent about it.

No, your point doesn't stand.

Because this isn't a positivity thread.

Your point is that positivity threads only exist in reaction to negativity ones, and you use this to try to make some arcane point about positivity not really existing somehow, and ignore how often someone making a positivity thread stand-alone are also reflected by the doomposters with a negative thread. But the point is, your argument - which is faulty to begin with (positive threads can still be entirely legitimate even if they're a "reaction" to something; your argument is like saying light cannot independently exist as an entity and only has meaning because of darkness, or reconstruction is meaningless because it's only done in response to destruction) - doesn't work when you're not dealing with a positivity thread.

THIS THREAD was mocking - OPENLY mocking - the incessant doomposting and the latest abjectly moronic example of said doomposting.

Stop being a simp for trolls, friend.

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Originally Posted by Kozh

Sub is paid monthly, and after we cancel our sub we still have 14 days more to access the forum (iirc).

6.45 just dropped recently.

I'm sure the math is not hard.

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The problem is, a lot of these same people have been posting for months - literally months - including when the last patch was in its final months, and the one before that, and the one before that, meaning no new content for 2-3 months at that point, multiple times...and continue the doomposting. So no, that math doesn't help the argument.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Strange how that frustration builds.

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That's not really a defense for Titenmen threads, Semi.

Titenmen threads are consistently trying to get people's goats and stir controversy. And given his propensity to troll and try to get people at each other, it's not borne out of frustration at the devs but rather he's one of those men who "just want to watch the world burn". Defending that is...a choice.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

I don't find it surprising at all. But if every 'positive/anti-negative' thread is going to be made purely for damage control or taking shots at other threads, then people should stop crying foul when those threads get called out for the ulterior motives behind their creation.

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I wouldn't mind if you'd call out the anti-positive threads, too. You do not.

And again, THIS thread doesn't apply, since it's not a positive thread. It's note even an anti-negative thread as such. It's an anti-doomposting-hyperbole thread. I say in all these threads that constructive criticism is a good thing, and so clearly I'm not against all negativity. I'm against hyperbole, and hyperbolic doomposting in particular. It's just so trite and silly at this point. It's gone passed the point of obnoxious to the point of /popcorn and then further still to the point of somehow being obnoxious AGAIN, but even moreso.

There was no "ulterior motive" with this thread. As I made my motive crystal clear. This isn't some attempt to mask a critique of someone behind a pretend facade of positivity. This is nakedly mocking the doomsaying. If I point out from the OP that this is open mockery of the hyperbolic doomposting, and that IS my motive, there's no "ulterior" for you to try and uncover. I already revealed to you the whole truth. There's no additional "ulterior motive" here for you to sus out.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

I enjoy that this forum has likes, makes it easy to see when people get ratioed.

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It's not really helpful because some of the doomposters have about two dozen alts between them.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

But anyway, there wouldn't be as much doomium if the game was heading in a good direction, so yknow

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Honestly, by all objective measures we have, the game is heading in a good direction. It's just a direction some people dislike, and some of those people are extremely prone to hyperbole about it.

As I said, it's one thing to critique the game. Also, it's one thing to not personally LIKE the game - there are a lot of games I don't like but I can rationally see are good games, not garbage games, they just aren't my cup of tea for whatever reason. But the incessant doomposting FOR MONTHS from people insisting the game's dying when every metric we have says otherwise is just tiring.

The game isn't dying.

It may be fine if it's going a direction some people dislike, but that doesn't make it garbage nor does that make it dead or dying. The hyperbole is just stupid at this point and in opposition to logic and facts.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Lets break this down.

1) People are fearing that 7.0 will go down the same route that Endwalker has taken, with content releases that will never stand the test of time, and outside of the first few weeks, will be dead on arrival.

2) People are not posting because they hate the game, the Diehard fans are the people that are losing their minds because the MMO they love has been watered down to the level of a Chinese mobile game.

3) FF14 will continue on it's current path, there is no doubting that. 7.0 will release, the playerbase will grow exponentially and new servers will be added(And then left to die because nobody wants to actually be on them, other than to own a large/mod house). A few months in ~30% of the playerbase will have quit playing and the game will settle back down to the same numbers across the board, because there is zero engaging reason to log into the game throughout the downtime between major patches.

4) CBU3 certainly did create one of the best MMORPG's out there, but they also started catering that MMORPG to a Single Player audience, and the game has lost it's MMO flair and gone down the sad and lonely path of single player driven content.

The game does have major glaring issues, and the foremost one is Player Retention. They developers need to create content that lasts longer than the patch it is created for in order to keep people engaged with the game.
The same can be said for Raiding, After 10 years, it has become the same bland cycle of Raid, Gear, Unsub. There needs to be engaging content for those players to continue playing the game too.

As i have said before, When an expansion ends, all the current content gets passed down to become 'backlog' casual content for people to consume during downtime.
Endwalker is an anomaly because the backlog of content getting passed down is next to nothing. The content was designed to be done once, then go play something else.

XIV will not die (even if places like materia feel like a wasteland during the small content drops), and there is no need to worry in that regard.

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Real quick:

1) Yes, some people are. Thing is, a lot of those people praised ShB, but ShB and EW are basically the same thing done twice in terms of overall direction.

2) SOME people, yes. But a lot of the hyperbolic doomposting ("This game is garbage", "This game is dead", "CBU3 are hacks") are NOT from people who are diehard fans or who like the game. There are two different groups of people. The most diehard fans are the ones making constructive feedback posts, not the ones that "are tired of being ignored" or the Titanmen troll brigade.

3) Expansion-on-expansion - that is, comparing now to the prior expansion at this same point (patch 5.45) using the Steam numbers (the only ones we have) shows growth. And the Steam numbers are pretty widely considered more antagonistic than the whole playerbase likely is. So even with the "worst case" numbers, the game did not "Settle back down to the same numbers across the board". It's had between a 5-30% increase, depending on which months we're looking at. The current X.45 comparison has us at ~+30% over 5.45. I'm not sure how being around a third bigger is "the same". And it's unrealistic to say that all those people are just logging in to avoid losing houses, since we know housing is too rare for a THIRD of the playerbase to be house logging and doing nothing else.

4) Yes and no. 24 mans aren't single player. Extremes aren't single player. Savages aren't single player. Ultimates aren't single player. Ultimates and Savages take up a HUGE chunk of the production budget and manhours for content played by a small amount of the playerbase. Deep Dungeons CAN be single player but generally are not. Criterion have a single player mode, but the harder modes which have rewards you can't get solo are not. Eureka and Bozja you can que up alone, but you generally have to work with other players to achieve things (and are arguably some of the most MMO-y content in the game). As I've said before, FFXIV's dearth of content is in the midcore range. But it's not in the multiplayer range. While they've made a lot of adjustments to allow a single player audience, the game is not catering to them - or not catering to them alone/exclusively, at any rate. Even most of the "single player" content like Trusts is made on top of a multi-player format - the dungeons are made for 4 players, not for 1, you can just solo them with Trusts because Trusts scale up if you're doing badly and are practically (for the most part) unkillable; but the target audience is still the roulette players, which are not playing solo, per se.

5) The game does have issues, though "major glaring" is subjective. The Devs do and have created long-term content. Not everyone likes it, but people are still playing Eureka and Bozja. People are still running Orthos. People are running Crystaline Conflict and Frontlines. Hunt Train pings go out for SB all the time, and S ranks for ARR. People are still doing Ishgard Restoration, even ARR Relics, etc. You're talking your own experience, and while your experience IS real, it's anecdote. It's true of you and players like you, but you can't project that onto the entire playerbase, or even necessarily a large portion of it. No one can do that with their own experience, because we don't know who the "average player" really is. Lots of players haven't even reached the end of the game yet and play all kinds of content aside from the MSQ like Deep Dungeons or leveling alt Jobs or only an hour or so a night, so their cycle is not "Raid, Gear, Unsub", as they don't even raid.

The biggest problem, as some commenters have said, is that MMO players (specifically raiders) are kind of like a swarm of locusts. And not in a negative way, per se. In a practical sense, they come in, they consume content rapidly (but only of the type they like, which will never be the whole game; WoW for a while was a game for only raiders and PvPers and no one else, and it cratered under that model and has had to branch out), and then are bored until the next release. This has been true for a while and isn't a Endwalker or new problem. This problem has plagued MMOs since Vanilla WoW. Since before Vanilla WoW. Back then (Everquest/FF11/Ultima Online era), the main difference was players would set their own objectives that weren't "get latest gear then raidlog". The problem is, there's NO WAY to make engaging content for them AT THE RATE THEY CONSUME IT. There's physically no way without spending Bill Gates' fortune each month to make content at that pace that will keep them engaged...and the kicker is, even if you somehow DID: Then they'd get burnout.

...so the solution is to try and give them content and recognize that when they're done consuming it, they'll unsub until the next release. There's no way ANY major MMO can release a new raid tier every 4-6 weeks for perpetuity. I'm unaware of any MMO that's ever even tried for a short time, but certainly none have managed it for an extended amount of time.

I do agree with you on one point here, though; EW doesn't have a lot of "later on grinding" content. The only thing it has at all like that is Orthos, and while that's great and all, Deep Dungeons have a far more limited audience than something like Eureka/Bozja, and because they're RNG dungeons, they tend to have a pretty samey feel to them and the progression isn't as interesting as Eureka/Bozja where you have stuff like multiple weapons, multiple armors, and some BiS pieces for those zones that can encourage farming them or associated things (Mettle, etc), and Deep Dungeons just don't quite do that, nor do they have the pick up group/drop in/out feel to them. They still have longevity - go que up for PotD floor 51-60 and you're probably going to get a que pop with minutes unless you're on really low intensity times or the new DC - but it's somehow more limited. Criterion is also a case of "do it solo to get all paths, maybe do it once at harder difficulties for the achievements, maybe farm the medium one for a few glam pieces...then done.

I suppose, in a way, everything is like that, but some things have more going for them.

Oh, and I also agree FFXIV is not going to die, so no worries on that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Ongoing success? I wonder why, then, FF16 sales numbers cratered after the first week.

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Well they would like FF15/7R did in japan too...they cratered in second week. 3M+ sold in a 38M ecosystem is really good like far from bad that's for sure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kazhar

Despite high number of trolls and bad faith actors, this is one of the few places where discussion actually take place.
While it can change depending on the general mood and the subject, both negative and positive opinions can gather around the same amount of upvotes. And your post are not hidden by default if they're controversial. Negative echo chamber? Not really.

On the reddit mainsub you can and will get downvoted to oblivion if your opinion goes against the crowd. No matter if you phrase it in the most polite and nuanced way. That is what an echo chamber looks like.

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The irony being that FFXIV's mainsub is so toxically positive the mods had to pin a warning message telling people to stop reporting posts criticising the pricing of the Alpha mount or the Mogstation as a whole.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

snip

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Despite being a franchise fan, I'm generally in the same boat myself. I've grown more distant in Endwalker than any other expansion because of the drip feed content releases and lackluster longevity. All of which seem to be a pursuit in appealing to single player gamers more. None of that is to say I want FFXIV to fail or that I somehow think it will. Much like you, I think it'll do fine even if they do embark on a sweeping change? Will it maintain the success we saw with Shadowbringers? Who's to say. It may settle back down to what we had before, albeit with a new direction. If that emphasis is more on solo play and quick, "instant gratification" content that doesn't last beyond the week it's released. Well, it may be time to pack it in.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Koros

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/f/3...7fc0_96x96.jpg

yikes wtf happened

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I mean it’s not just him

Male elezen and male veira have 0 good facial hair options

They’re hideous

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Renathras

a college essay somehow even longer than a Jojoya essay

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https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...1.33.38_AM.jpg

EDIT: He somehow made an even longer essay LMAO

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Renathras

I know you don't have the capacity. It's okay. /pat

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Nah, I just don't bother reading essays from people that use a high word count to sound smarter than they actually are or to disguise their flawed arguments. Less is more, my guy.

(as for the chess game, I'd still win even if I was a pigeon lol)