Should relic stats be tweeked?

You'll be able to upgrade them later. If you look at the concept art the PLD curtana is glowing.

Yes you can upgrade them but how do you know there wont be another weapon like garuda that closes the gap on them making the time investment very little again. Also if you guys must know another reason i'm not going for them cause relics are not end all weapons the legendary ones will be the end all weapons.

Comparing the stats of all the weapons and the trends they have between levels, I'd say their stats are great and they are worth the time. (also, noone can say what else they will boost. will Spirits Within damage be doubled? Will Flare's DOT be trippled? etc)

The Relic weapons are equivalent to melded Lvl 60 weapons (by comparison to the highest lvl 50 crafted weapons), yet you can use them @ lvl 50.

The Primal weapons would fall into the range of lvl 55-56

With the idea that a IV materia in essense increases a piece of gear's level by 4 (and III by 3)
a weapon with IV, III, III materia's would give you a Relic Weapon.

I'd choose the Relic over a Tripple melded weapon, cause they look sweet and cause I hope they add a 6 piece AF bonus

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Originally Posted by Jinko

I do think for the effort the stats should be ridiculous, I can't imagine anyone in this thread truly believes they have a chance of beating Extreme Ifrit after watching that and if they do then they are probably deluding themselves.

Good luck with that though :D

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It's already been taken down to 30% and below. It'll happen.

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Originally Posted by Madruk

It's already been taken down to 30% and below. It'll happen.

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can you tell me who got ifrit down to 30%?

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Originally Posted by Arkune

can you tell me who got ifrit down to 30%?

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or he meant they took 30% of its hp XD lol

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Originally Posted by Skies

Miss kitten, let's have a deeper look on the weapons:
Garuda's Talons -
Wind Resistance+15
Accuracy+25
Critical Hit Attack Power+40
Chance to inflict wind damage

Sphairai -
MP+70
Evasion+30
Attack Power+60
Refresh+5
Increases Shoulder Tackle damage

It has slightly higher DPS that most probably makes up for the increased wind damage, looses on accuracy and crit power, but gains evasion, refresh and +MP to maintain fists and a good deal more of attack power.
Does that makes it more right? I wouldn't know i'm not a monk, but a straight DPS comparison is not a good idea.

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Well, that's the thing about monk, DPS is probably the most deceiving stat for the job in terms of raw damage. If you ever parse a monk's damage, you notice their auto-attacks make a significant difference in damage. This is why I personally detest the Garuda's Talons, even though they are better than Ifrit's.

With the Monk relic, the damage amount is greatly increased, specially compared to Garuda's Talons.

Garuda: 115 Damage
Ifrit: 131 Damage
Relic: 143 Damage

This not only affects your damage output by means of auto-attacks, but also make skills such as Hundred Fists and Spinning Heel much more efficient. You can consider this somewhat situational since Hundred Fists is generally only used in instanced fights such as garuda or the Castrum Novum fight and Spinning Heel is a great TP gain for zerg fights such as Miser.

Next is the Delay between each weapon. Without a doubt Garuda's Talons is extremely low delay while the relic is 0.1 above Ifrit's. This is one thing which Hundred Fists favors on relic more since delay is ignored when the skill is up. However, delay is more of a preference on how you want to gain TP. Lower Delay gives small amount of TP yet it's more frequent while higher delay gives larger amounts of TP yet less frequent. However I think SE chose 3.4 Delay on relic on purpose because with ifrit's 3.3 the amount of TP gained per hit is 330 (Without corselet or TP gain materia). With the relic 3 hits should boost you up to 1k~ tp instead of 990.

The stats of the relic itself turns a bit into preference when dealing with monk. Personally, I wouldn't take Crit Attack Power over Attack Power because even though I won't get the pretty crit on Howling Fist, I know all my skills will get a damage increase. Then there's the fact that the talons have acc while the relic doesn't, which if you ask me it isn't that big of a deal on monk(most of our gear already holds some type of acc). There is also the loss of extra wind damage which does actually add a nice bit of damage. However you get the 5 refresh which will do wonders in extended fights such as Hamlet. Then there are the less important stats of evasion and MP which are always a nice bonus, but lets not kid ourselves, the usefulness of the stats aren't that great.

There is one stat for every relic which is still a mystery to us all, and that's the bonus to the specified job action. I don't really know what bonus Shoulder Tackle gets from the relic so I can't judge it. I use the skill quite often in fights anyway so in the end it will at least increase my damage by something.

So are the weapons worth it for the quest? Well it depends on how you look at the weapons. I've already stated on how the monk relic upgrade looks like to me, and personally I do believe it is worthwhile, to answer the OP's questions.

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Originally Posted by Arkune

can you tell me who got ifrit down to 30%?

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Probably talking about the video the OP posted. Ifrit is down to about 30-35% HP by the time the nails are up.

I think the stats are too modest. For all that goes into obtaining them, I think they should have god-like ability.

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Originally Posted by waldo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NFMA4fP8d8&feature=youtu.be

If I'm going to put myself through this hell, maybe.... just maybe I'm thinking the relics should be a little bit more awesome you feel me?

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I think all our stats, including regular weapons and gear should be dialed down a bit...everything seems uneven, I hate that overpowered feeling...and the real difficulty we have in game is running around find positions or fighting tons of mabs at the same time...chaos I don't like...but thats just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by waldo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NFMA4fP8d8&feature=youtu.be

If I'm going to put myself through this hell, maybe.... just maybe I'm thinking the relics should be a little bit more awesome you feel me?

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Need a napkin?

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Originally Posted by Allistar

I think all our stats, including regular weapons and gear should be dialed down a bit...everything seems uneven, I hate that overpowered feeling...and the real difficulty we have in game is running around find positions or fighting tons of mabs at the same time...chaos I don't like...but thats just my opinion.

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If anything stats need to mean more.

That being said the latest additions have started to look a lot better of the stat front, the itemisation team have finally got a clue it seems.

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Originally Posted by Dawiichan

Well, that's the thing about monk, DPS is probably the most deceiving stat for the job in terms of raw damage. If you ever parse a monk's damage, you notice their auto-attacks make a significant difference in damage. This is why I personally detest the Garuda's Talons, even though they are better than Ifrit's.

With the Monk relic, the damage amount is greatly increased, specially compared to Garuda's Talons.

Garuda: 115 Damage
Ifrit: 131 Damage
Relic: 143 Damage

This not only affects your damage output by means of auto-attacks, but also make skills such as Hundred Fists and Spinning Heel much more efficient. You can consider this somewhat situational since Hundred Fists is generally only used in instanced fights such as garuda or the Castrum Novum fight and Spinning Heel is a great TP gain for zerg fights such as Miser.

Next is the Delay between each weapon. Without a doubt Garuda's Talons is extremely low delay while the relic is 0.1 above Ifrit's. This is one thing which Hundred Fists favors on relic more since delay is ignored when the skill is up. However, delay is more of a preference on how you want to gain TP. Lower Delay gives small amount of TP yet it's more frequent while higher delay gives larger amounts of TP yet less frequent. However I think SE chose 3.4 Delay on relic on purpose because with ifrit's 3.3 the amount of TP gained per hit is 330 (Without corselet or TP gain materia). With the relic 3 hits should boost you up to 1k~ tp instead of 990.

The stats of the relic itself turns a bit into preference when dealing with monk. Personally, I wouldn't take Crit Attack Power over Attack Power because even though I won't get the pretty crit on Howling Fist, I know all my skills will get a damage increase. Then there's the fact that the talons have acc while the relic doesn't, which if you ask me it isn't that big of a deal on monk(most of our gear already holds some type of acc). There is also the loss of extra wind damage which does actually add a nice bit of damage. However you get the 5 refresh which will do wonders in extended fights such as Hamlet. Then there are the less important stats of evasion and MP which are always a nice bonus, but lets not kid ourselves, the usefulness of the stats aren't that great.

There is one stat for every relic which is still a mystery to us all, and that's the bonus to the specified job action. I don't really know what bonus Shoulder Tackle gets from the relic so I can't judge it. I use the skill quite often in fights anyway so in the end it will at least increase my damage by something.

So are the weapons worth it for the quest? Well it depends on how you look at the weapons. I've already stated on how the monk relic upgrade looks like to me, and personally I do believe it is worthwhile, to answer the OP's questions.

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Finally someone who knows wtf they're talking about.

If you really want to boil it down to individual time investment, you're looking at a possible 1 (2 if your luck is terrible) total weeks to get someone a relic once everything is learned and beaten. Not really a huge time investment. It just seems that way because everything is new at the moment.

Once everything is learned the only real time factor is how long it takes you to get to a double meld.

No way anyone but Japanese players can do it with latency lag to other nations, Europeans will never be able to handle constant eruptions. That alone makes this even dumber.

Did anyone ever consider maybe your characters just aren't strong enough to beat ifrit? Maybe they are trying to get ppl to triple/quad/quint meld things, lol.

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Originally Posted by waldo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NFMA4fP8d8&feature=youtu.be

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Thats insane! lol
I love it.
*One of those types that doesn't mind not having the best*

Is relic worth it? Depends on which one you're talking about. I know I'm working towards Curtana because that refresh on the shield and chance to regain MP on sword is just too good to pass up. PLD without refresh is like trying to eat a whole pack of Oreos without milk: possible, but more challenging than it needs to be.

some the people in this thread make me sick... Why does everyone want things so easy... Let the hardcore players have something to go after damn.. Not everything in the game needs to be about the casuals. Also I hope no one can beat ifrit. That would be awesome!

The weapons themselves are not worth my effort but the name of the achievement for Gae Bolg has won my heart!

Knowing that Primals will work in an entirely different way in 2.0 (unique world-roaming monsters which can be summoned by player companies once-defeated), I can't see this remaining a requirement for Relic weapons after this version ends.

Thus: not worth my time, or anyone's from my point of view.

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Originally Posted by Inzoum

Knowing that Primals will work in an entirely different way in 2.0 (unique world-roaming monsters which can be summoned by player companies once-defeated), I can't see this remaining a requirement for Relic weapons after this version ends.

Thus: not worth my time, or anyone's from my point of view.

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It's worth my time. I want to experience Ifrit Extreme more than anything since I saw the screenshots and videos. I wanna try it because hard sh*t like that entertains me.
Kinda makes you look silly now doesn't it?

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Originally Posted by Dawiichan

Well, that's the thing about monk, DPS is probably the most deceiving stat for the job in terms of raw damage. If you ever parse a monk's damage, you notice their auto-attacks make a significant difference in damage. This is why I personally detest the Garuda's Talons, even though they are better than Ifrit's.

With the Monk relic, the damage amount is greatly increased, specially compared to Garuda's Talons.

Garuda: 115 Damage
Ifrit: 131 Damage
Relic: 143 Damage

This not only affects your damage output by means of auto-attacks, but also make skills such as Hundred Fists and Spinning Heel much more efficient. You can consider this somewhat situational since Hundred Fists is generally only used in instanced fights such as garuda or the Castrum Novum fight and Spinning Heel is a great TP gain for zerg fights such as Miser.

Next is the Delay between each weapon. Without a doubt Garuda's Talons is extremely low delay while the relic is 0.1 above Ifrit's. This is one thing which Hundred Fists favors on relic more since delay is ignored when the skill is up. However, delay is more of a preference on how you want to gain TP. Lower Delay gives small amount of TP yet it's more frequent while higher delay gives larger amounts of TP yet less frequent. However I think SE chose 3.4 Delay on relic on purpose because with ifrit's 3.3 the amount of TP gained per hit is 330 (Without corselet or TP gain materia). With the relic 3 hits should boost you up to 1k~ tp instead of 990.

The stats of the relic itself turns a bit into preference when dealing with monk. Personally, I wouldn't take Crit Attack Power over Attack Power because even though I won't get the pretty crit on Howling Fist, I know all my skills will get a damage increase. Then there's the fact that the talons have acc while the relic doesn't, which if you ask me it isn't that big of a deal on monk(most of our gear already holds some type of acc). There is also the loss of extra wind damage which does actually add a nice bit of damage. However you get the 5 refresh which will do wonders in extended fights such as Hamlet. Then there are the less important stats of evasion and MP which are always a nice bonus, but lets not kid ourselves, the usefulness of the stats aren't that great.

There is one stat for every relic which is still a mystery to us all, and that's the bonus to the specified job action. I don't really know what bonus Shoulder Tackle gets from the relic so I can't judge it. I use the skill quite often in fights anyway so in the end it will at least increase my damage by something.

So are the weapons worth it for the quest? Well it depends on how you look at the weapons. I've already stated on how the monk relic upgrade looks like to me, and personally I do believe it is worthwhile, to answer the OP's questions.


Probably talking about the video the OP posted. Ifrit is down to about 30-35% HP by the time the nails are up.

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Not sure how much you have played monk but if you are doing a close to perfect rotation auto attack should be making up only 10-15% maybe 20% max of the total damage done, that isn't what i would consider "significant", if your auto attacks are making up a significant amount of your damage than you aren't putting out as much damage as a monk can, so from a min/max point of view dps on weapon > damage currently for monk.

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Originally Posted by Madruk

If you really want to boil it down to individual time investment, you're looking at a possible 1 (2 if your luck is terrible) total weeks to get someone a relic once everything is learned and beaten. Not really a huge time investment. It just seems that way because everything is new at the moment.

Once everything is learned the only real time factor is how long it takes you to get to a double meld.

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And a Garuda weapon can be obtained in just over an hour if you pass headdresses.

Yes it wont take that long to do subsequent relics if you indeed don't need hamlet seals which seems like the case currently, but its still a pretty huge investment for what to me seems like very undervalued relics.

I am not saying double the stats and add 50 dps to each weapon, but the upgrade from garuda > relic should atleast be significantly higher than the upgrade from ifrit > garuda and currently its not for some if not all the weapons.

Don't get me wrong ill be getting a relic infact ill be getting multiple relics most likely, but for the time spent it just feels like the itemization is extremely lackluster.

remember the games focus is balance not about being OP like other games so weapons per level cant be super god like in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Dont do it if you feel its not worth your time.

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What an original answer this is...

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Originally Posted by Powercow

Relic weapons have more value beyond functionality. They're not just extremely good weapons, they also carry that added weight of when you walk around town and people see it, thinking "hot damn, that's one badass player!"

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omfg.........

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Originally Posted by Powercow

Relic weapons have more value beyond functionality. They're not just extremely good weapons, they also carry that added weight of when you walk around town and people see it, thinking "hot damn, that's one badass player!"

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pretty sure i'll be thinking that person has no life & yoshi-p + his team need to think more before they act. (well most of us already know this as a fact)

As we have learned in recent years the casual focused MMO is one doomed to failure. A well balanced MMO which has content for all parts of the spectrum has a much better shot. Although the relic weapons dont' have OMFGWTFBBQ stats they are clear BiS for every respective job, they dont' involve insane time commitment (modest effort but nothing in the relic of FFXI timeframe), and the key point is they are going to be upgradable and the effort were putting in now likely will pay for itself down the road. I dont' expect them to be BiS forever/always but I do think they will be #1 at 2.0 and should stay a top tier weapon far into the future. Think of it as a long term investments.

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Originally Posted by YuriSan

What an original answer this is...



omfg.........

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I'm sorry you want SE to spoonfeed you the most powerful gear in this game, which will be able to be upgraded in the future. I really am.

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Originally Posted by Madruk

If you really want to boil it down to individual time investment, you're looking at a possible 1 (2 if your luck is terrible) total weeks to get someone a relic once everything is learned and beaten. Not really a huge time investment. It just seems that way because everything is new at the moment.

Once everything is learned the only real time factor is how long it takes you to get to a double meld.

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Agreed. It's taken us a week to get nearly 12 people from AV Mythril to Ifrit Extreme. Once Ifrit Extreme is beaten, and put on farm status, it's safe to say we can get 12 people a relic in under a week, with AV and CC steps taking 4 hours tops, Faction Leves taking 15 minutes, Ifrit and Garuda taking 1-2 hours. Spiritbonding will take a day for most people, and we farmed 11+ seals per day pre Hamlet seal nerf, I'm sure we could attain 16+ a day now.

We were spoon fed gear in previous patches, now we actually work a week or two for a mild upgrade and the gear is not good enough, despite being best in slot + additional stats and an additional effect?

imo, after doing the faction leves, the stats on the relics seem perfect. I think they will be the perfect enhancement to take on content currently, without content being a complete pushover. If they do boost the DPS on relics, go ahead and throw another 5% HP on Ifrit Extreme and Garuda, as well as every faction leve and everything in AV/CC (essentially any content worth doing that you could use a relic weapon during) to make it fair. This way the community can feel they achieved something great (more luldps on their gaerz), without stealing that sense of accomplishment I've been starved for since day 1.

More politely put; get your relic weapon first, then petition whether you want the stats tweeked or not.

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Originally Posted by SniperRifle

More politely put; get your relic weapon first, then petition whether you want the stats tweeked or not.

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There were some great posts. This one is my favourite.

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Originally Posted by Penguin

Not sure how much you have played monk but if you are doing a close to perfect rotation auto attack should be making up only 10-15% maybe 20% max of the total damage done, that isn't what i would consider "significant", if your auto attacks are making up a significant amount of your damage than you aren't putting out as much damage as a monk can, so from a min/max point of view dps on weapon > damage currently for monk.

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If you don't consider 10%-20% of your damage significant, then the difference between 310 str to 350 str must also not be significant to you either... DPS on monk isn't as effective if the damage of the weapon is nerfing a fifth of your damage. I guess for you min/maxing is just maxing. If the GC claws didn't require as many sets at it did, it could easily become a better weapon than garuda.

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Originally Posted by Dawiichan

If you don't consider 10%-20% of your damage significant, then the difference between 310 str to 350 str must also not be significant to you either... DPS on monk isn't as effective if the damage of the weapon is nerfing a fifth of your damage. I guess for you min/maxing is just maxing. If the GC claws didn't require as many sets at it did, it could easily become a better weapon than garuda.

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If you use the right set up it can be if you're Twin Adder.

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Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

If you use the right set up it can be if you're Twin Adder.

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Just wondering which pieces you picked. My MNK is just about at cap and I was trying to pick out pieces to go with it. Was looking at Lt. Body, Sgt. legs, feet, waist, and the choker. Recommendation?

sorry for the size of pics...

http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/...cucucu/E-1.jpg

http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/...cucucu/F-1.jpg

http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/...cucucu/G-1.jpg

http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/...cucucu/H-1.jpg

http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/...6-28_00001.jpg

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Originally Posted by Cthulhu

Just wondering which pieces you picked. My MNK is just about at cap and I was trying to pick out pieces to go with it. Was looking at Lt. Body, Sgt. legs, feet, waist, and the choker. Recommendation?

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Mainly the jewelry. Earrings have +4 INT, Necklace have +27 ATP and +13 Crit ATP which is better than a +1 crafted anything, Bracelet with HP (but what can you really put there, +3 STR? lol) and the belt with +2 INT

i feel the same way, relic weapons should be a lot more powerful, although some of those already are good like blm weapon and the gae bolg, i feel that the damage is too close to standard and primal weapons and the stats are not that good to be a really long term goal, for example, the Bard weapon http://www.mooglebox.com/entries/artemis-bow.php has 116 dmg, 40 acc, 15 attack power and -30 enmitty, job effect increases song duration, the dps is only near 42, the most important thing it doesnt have an extra damage like primal weapons and it doesnt have an exclusive powerful weapon skill.

Seeing all the trouble you have to deal to get it, i dont see the big difference on fights, maybe it will do same damage as the Garuda and ifrit bow because those weapons at least have a good dps and an extra damage that im sure it isnt taked into consideration when talking about dps displayed in the weapon.

So yeah i dont feel this weapons have the fair stats considering all the trouble, as i said in other post, the player should be rewarded according to their effort and skill and im not talking about time here, your gear should be noticed instantly not only by looks, but by the numbers you do in every fight, and those numbers should be high enough so everyone else in the party can look forward on getting a relic.

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Originally Posted by Dawiichan

If you don't consider 10%-20% of your damage significant, then the difference between 310 str to 350 str must also not be significant to you either... DPS on monk isn't as effective if the damage of the weapon is nerfing a fifth of your damage. I guess for you min/maxing is just maxing. If the GC claws didn't require as many sets at it did, it could easily become a better weapon than garuda.

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The combo system renders AA a means to an end; weapon DMG has been reduced to a) the dividend of the DPS calculation, and b) base damage for Shoulder Tackle. Then again, it has probably been this way since 1.19, only we as a community never considered DPS as a factor in the damage calculation until it appeared as a weapon stat.

Unlike FFXI, where MNK relied on AA more than burst damage from WS, all DD in FFXIV have a fairly consistent AA:WS damage ratio. Even if you manage to botch several combos, WS damage will still take the majority of your parse. So, that "10-20%" of your damage is not significant, because there's 80-90% of your damage that's doing, well, most of the damage. And if losing DMG to raise DPS "nerfs a fifth of your damage," you're recouping it in WS damage where most of your damage is coming from in the first place.

To keep this relic related, I agree MNK relic is not the top of the heap. It's probably the "worst" of the relics, without knowing the power behind enhanced Shoulder Tackle. Refresh+5, MP+70 and evasion are junk. The ATK is generous and DPS is the best MNK can get, but the true worth of Sphairai among its relic brethren will be decided by tackle damage. The only reason to get Sphairai otherwise is because you enjoy and frequently use MNK.

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

The combo system renders AA a means to an end; weapon DMG has been reduced to a) the dividend of the DPS calculation, and b) base damage for Shoulder Tackle. Then again, it has probably been this way since 1.19, only we as a community never considered DPS as a factor in the damage calculation until it appeared as a weapon stat.

Unlike FFXI, where MNK relied on AA more than burst damage from WS, all DD in FFXIV have a fairly consistent AA:WS damage ratio. Even if you manage to botch several combos, WS damage will still take the majority of your parse. So, that "10-20%" of your damage is not significant, because there's 80-90% of your damage that's doing, well, most of the damage. And if losing DMG to raise DPS "nerfs a fifth of your damage," you're recouping it in WS damage where most of your damage is coming from in the first place.

To keep this relic related, I agree MNK relic is not the top of the heap. It's probably the "worst" of the relics, without knowing the power behind enhanced Shoulder Tackle. Refresh+5, MP+70 and evasion are junk. The ATK is generous and DPS is the best MNK can get, but the true worth of Sphairai among its relic brethren will be decided by tackle damage. The only reason to get Sphairai otherwise is because you enjoy and frequently use MNK.

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Ok, you're completely missing the point... It's obvious that unlike XI, XIV's MNK deals most of it's damage from the WS they cast. However, I'm talking about the upgrade from Garuda Talons to Monk Relic. Garuda talons has the very low Damage yet a high DPS, while Monk's relic has a high DPS with a high damage. DPS on Garuda does make it a very nice weapon but the low damage on it nerfs you on 10%-20% of your damage. However with the monk relic the higher damage potentially increases a certain threshold of your damage by an immense amount because of Garuda's low DMG stat.

This is why I'm saying that compared to Ifrit, even though the overall damage from your skills is lowered, the damage on your AAs is increased. So unlike getting a low delay, low DMG weapon with the same DPS, we are actually getting a buff because the higher delay yet higher damage increases damage potential on some of their skills, which with the 340 TP per AA rotation, you can get 1000 tp in 3 hits instead of 4.

So in case you don't get it, I'm saying a high delay, high damage weapon(With the same DPS stat) is potentially better especially if the delay is high enough, which like the monk relic, you need at least 3.4 delay for it to be effective.

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Originally Posted by Allistar

I think all our stats, including regular weapons and gear should be dialed down a bit...everything seems uneven, I hate that overpowered feeling...and the real difficulty we have in game is running around find positions or fighting tons of mabs at the same time...chaos I don't like...but thats just my opinion.

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The reason stats are much bigger than in FFXI is because bigger numbers can give gear more variety.

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Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

It's worth my time. I want to experience Ifrit Extreme more than anything since I saw the screenshots and videos. I wanna try it because hard sh*t like that entertains me.
Kinda makes you look silly now doesn't it?

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I agree. I'd like to try Ifrit Extreme myself, but unless I stick around come 2.0, it won't be something I'll get to try.

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Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

Mainly the jewelry. Earrings have +4 INT, Necklace have +27 ATP and +13 Crit ATP which is better than a +1 crafted anything, Bracelet with HP (but what can you really put there, +3 STR? lol) and the belt with +2 INT

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The body is also nice, even if it needs Sanction +120 Crit ATP is hella lots on top of native +10 STR +10 INT.

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Originally Posted by elreed

i feel the same way, relic weapons should be a lot more powerful, although some of those already are good like blm weapon and the gae bolg, i feel that the damage is too close to standard and primal weapons and the stats are not that good to be a really long term goal, for example, the Bard weapon http://www.mooglebox.com/entries/artemis-bow.php has 116 dmg, 40 acc, 15 attack power and -30 enmitty, job effect increases song duration, the dps is only near 42, the most important thing it doesnt have an extra damage like primal weapons and it doesnt have an exclusive powerful weapon skill.

Seeing all the trouble you have to deal to get it, i dont see the big difference on fights, maybe it will do same damage as the Garuda and ifrit bow because those weapons at least have a good dps and an extra damage that im sure it isnt taked into consideration when talking about dps displayed in the weapon.

So yeah i dont feel this weapons have the fair stats considering all the trouble, as i said in other post, the player should be rewarded according to their effort and skill and im not talking about time here, your gear should be noticed instantly not only by looks, but by the numbers you do in every fight, and those numbers should be high enough so everyone else in the party can look forward on getting a relic.

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DMG is a very big factor for BRD/ARC, because they can't spam WS (long CD) as much as other classes/jobs and the fact that most of their WS does VERY little more damage than a normal Light Shot (very pointless WS combo on Bloodletter if it's already in effect, better to save TP for a Rain of Death). That's the sole reason why many still run around with an Ifrit bow even if they have access to something with higher DPS (Ifrit and Moogle has terrible DPS). Raging Strike also increase enmity generated a lot, hence -30 Enmity is quite a bonus.