I loved this Live Letter

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by subatomic

Then don't be a negative Nancy and let everyone enjoy their game. <3

---

I mean, you're the one who initiated hostilities by purposely making a point to take a dig at "all the negativity."

Why not take your own advice and simply enjoy the game? If you wanna praise it in a thread, go right ahead. Just leave out the whinging remarks about other people posting their opinions. Your aren't any more special than theirs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by subatomic

Constructive criticism is fine but negativity is not. <3

---

Toxic positivity is not good for the game either.
You should want the game to be better always. The developers are paid for a reason

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reimmi

Toxic positivity is not good for the game either.
You should want the game to be better always. The developers are paid for a reason

---

And they have been making it better! With or without the negative Nancys :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

I mean, you're the one who initiated hostilities by purposely making a point to take a dig at "all the negativity."

Why not take your own advice and simply enjoy the game? If you wanna praise it in a thread, go right ahead. Just leave out the whinging remarks about other people posting their opinions. Your aren't any more special than theirs.

---

The forums are not a place for negativity <3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WaxSw

Negativity is just the consequence of constructive criticism that has been ignored/silenced over time. Both show that there is an underlying issue that have to be solved so their presence still holds more value than blind praise or the classic "just unsub" (guess what happens if people unsub, exactly, the game dies)

---

Do you have any evidence that constructive criticism has been ignored? Isn't the change to Savage loot exactly because they listened to constructive feedback :O

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WaxSw

Negativity is just the consequence of constructive criticism that has been ignored/silenced over time. Both show that there is an underlying issue that have to be solved so their presence still holds more value than blind praise or the classic "just unsub" (guess what happens if people unsub, exactly, the game dies)

---

The problem is what is constituting constructive criticism? Say I give criticism that this game isn't like Guild Wars 2 for 3 years, would you consider the negativity warranted? Of course not, you'd consider me a fool for wanting FF14 to be like GW2. There have been criticisms of the game that make no sense, and have been spouted for years. Those are not worth listening to and are just negative because "GAME ISN'T LIKE OTHER GAME", and unfortunately several posters on these very forums spout them.

Unfortunately for all the upset people here claiming that XIV is losing players left and right and no one is happy or playing, the MMO division is still making great money for SE *shrug* Thanks for Aveyond who shared this wonderful little fact with us earlier today.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Unfortunately for all the upset people here claiming that XIV is losing players left and right and no one is happy or playing, the MMO division is still making great money for SE *shrug* Thanks for Aveyond who shared this wonderful little fact with us earlier today.

---

Yeah money is all that matters well said zephyr. We should all lick our favorite billion dollar company's boot!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Minarisweet

Yeah money is all that matters well said zephyr. We should all lick our favorite billion dollar company's boot!

---

LOL. This game is 9 years old and it's financials are doing great. They are doing something right. According to the people here no one is happy outside ERPers and the game is a failure.

I know how sad this makes people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by subatomic

The forums are not a place for negativity <3

---

The forums ARE precisely the place to give that feedback, is our most reliable way to voice our concerns to the devs

Quote:

---

Do you have any evidence that constructive criticism has been ignored? Isn't the change to Savage loot exactly because they listened to constructive feedback :O

---

oh boi... let me show you the world of healers https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-healer-issues 3 years worth of feedback, one of, if not the most upvoted and followed post in the entire healer subforum and all of that feedback has been ignored AND silenced by the devs for over 3 years. This is also a very good example of how ignoring feedback breeds negativity, as the healer forum is a very negative place because of that same reason

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

The problem is what is constituting constructive criticism?

---

The link above is a good example, feedback that has been ignored for years, also complains about job design like the removal of kaiten or even balancing problems with the way the 2m meta and crits are shaping the content. Those complaints that represent a reality of the game that players are facing are very good examples constructive criticism

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WaxSw

The link above is a good example, feedback that has been ignored for years, also complains about job design like the removal of kaiten or even balancing problems with the way the 2m meta and crits are shaping the content. Those complaints that represent a reality of the game that players are facing are very good examples constructive criticism

---

I definitely agree with the healer criticisms. Anybody who knows me knows about how I rage about the current clunky state of SCH, and also about the state of DRK (my berserk button).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

i swear lmao yall always try to hide the negativity with those toxic positivity threads, as if one denies the other

also you basically summed up the patch, that's all there is (and the new dungeon)

good job i guess

---

You don't know what you're talking about !! ( obviously...)

Aside from the Housing stuffies with Island Sanctuary? I will share with you all the things I love about the Live-Letter that will improve my gaming experience in vivid detail so buckle up!! Here is my list about what I loved about it:
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.



( obviously...)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Housing is my main thing in the game and I have absolutely nothing to say about it as I like it is as it is and I'm having fun, so why would I unsubscribe again ?

---

I'm not trying to pick a fight, but if you're more than content with the main content you partake in, and don't feel the need to unsub because again, you're content with it, why are you always complaining about how there's nothing to do and that people want to actually play the game, not afk in limsa?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

And you let people make complaint threads without the need to put up a toxic positivity one agaisnt the complaint one.

---

And while I do agree that the praise seems disingenuous due to the reason behind the thread, I could say the same about how you and others feel the need to go into every "positive" thread, crap all over the people saying they like it, and say everyone's high on copium.

People have different preferences. People are allowed to genuinely enjoy the game, just as people are allowed to geniunely dislike the game! But all this "copium", "SE whiteknight" bs has to stop. Not every single person who enjoys what there is is some delusional Square worshipper. Just like not every single person who has grievances with the game is a "ultra negative troll" or a "debbie downer".

This insulting people and attempt to discredit others by flinging insults is stupid and needs to stop. Jesus christ y'all act like literal children.

And that's not directed solely at you, but everyone.

Quite frankly, Im actually very surprised that the biggest reveal was elided over..or trampled on in the rush. Id expected people to be excited with this live letter. Whilst it remains a WIP, the fact that IS is a huge step forward in giving us something that has been asked for and about for years..instanced housing.

Yes a lot still needs to be done, the offline visits for example..but in all truth, with the huge changes announced last night, I am somewhat amazed that no one has twigged to whats ahead. This alone may very well take the pressure off housing wards, so really, that this got missed is somewhat...odd. Looking at some of the constant whining over "having to stay subbed or lose your house", I was expecting more of a huge sigh of relief..or delight..over this item.

Nothing is perfect, it never is..all i can say is Discord was berserk when they saw this, a lot of VERY happy people.

Unlike the negative Nancies here, 6.4 looks to to me like a very fun patch with more to come. Its a huge step, and one I thought would generate more pleasure than pain. But these are the forums.."Toxic positivity" is a buzzword used to shout down or shut up people who dare go against the hate some seem to have for the game.

Ive said this before , it still holds true.

Doesnt matter what the devs do..some of you will never be happy or satisfied.

What counts as ‘constructive’ and ‘toxic’ seems to differ from person to person. It does not help that as a public forum, you can never guarantee that everyone is talking from the same page. There are plenty of trolls here who will whip up fury for their own amusement, and bad actors who will claim civility but not act in such a way and let their own biases and agendas blind them. Personally speaking, whilst toxic positivity certainly exists, I do not think being positive about the game despite its flaws is toxic. Most who get called ‘white knights’ here I think do accept that the game is not perfect (Name one that is!) but you can still enjoy it. This place would be right depressing if anything but critsism, constructive or not, was allowed. Heck I will never forget when someone said that sharing commissions of WoL art is a sign of toxic positivity in the community… plus some of the issues often highlighted are entirely subjective, like story quality and what actually counts as ‘content’.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

LOL. This game is 9 years old and it's financials are doing great. They are doing something right. According to the people here no one is happy outside ERPers and the game is a failure.

I know how sad this makes people.

---

Thats the thing that makes me raise eyebrows about some of the negativity here. Yes, the game has issues. It always has and always will. We should of course always discuss and highlight such things, but some seem to talk as if End of Service is right around the corner unless Yoshi-P reverse direction right this instant and deletes EW from the serves personally. In the end SE is a soulless entity here to make money, like every large company under this capitalist regime we live in. If the game was in such dire straights alarm bells would be happening and we would be seeing more desperate measures being taken.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

i swear lmao yall always try to hide the negativity with those toxic positivity threads, as if one denies the other

also you basically summed up the patch, that's all there is (and the new dungeon)

good job i guess

---

Dude, there are like 5+ negativity threads already. If someone likes something - LET THEM. You aren't in all the negative threads insisting "i swear lmao yall always try to hide the positivity with those toxic negativity threads, as if one denies the other"

We get it, you hate the state of the game right now. Not everyone is you. Move on and don't post in/read threads that are positive if you want to be miserable. But just because misery loves company doesn't mean everyone else will choose to be miserable with you, and you trying to make them miserable isn't a good look.

.

OP:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by subatomic

With so much negativity from the haters on the forums I wanted to write a post praising the changes we saw in the live letter.

1. Island Sanctuary Furnishings.

Yes, yes, yes!! This is awesome for everyone who wants to make their island feel really like their home or a second home. As someone without a house I love this feature :D

2. Savage loot changes

I don't play Savage but I heard that raiders love this change. Excellent job, SE

3. Trailer

Wow this is one of the most epic trailers we got so far. There are so many scenes, like Zero going berserk against the Loporrits (I hope the bunnies are fine >.<), Golbez's monologue being so mysterious. Inquiring minds want to know! Can't wait for the patch to launch and I can see the story!! <3

---

Nice, glad you're happy on those things. Personally, I'm just looking forward to new story and some new stuff to grind for a little bit. :)

New criterion visually looks fantastic, just a shame there probably isn't a reason to do it after you get your achievement. Savage loot changes I imagine are a big step in the right direction for those players. Island Sanctuary was never my thing so I don't care about it, but the furnishing system looks better than housing's outdoor furnishing, copium continues that IS is the testing bed for future housing stuff. Otherwise everything else was more or less what I expected out of the Live Letter. Not really anything that blows my mind so I'll probably stick with my plan to take a break till 7.0 next year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Remember guys, nobody comes and disrupts/attack "Positive" Threads.
Its only the Critical ones that get attacked by "The Usual Posters"

---

Funny how that's the narrative, and yet, it's the positive threads that get attacked. Almost like we have a Black Knight/toxic negativity problem here, not a White Knight/toxic positivity one... <_<

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

Looks decent enough, but I agree with some of the other people in the thread. This is so forced and fake, especially when you notice the OP's 3 post count.

---

Honestly, it's more likely a person new to the forums who happened to like the Liveletter. People who are around here a lot TEND to be negative, but maybe they've been hearing all this negativity of late and wanted to spread a little hope instead.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WaxSw

You (and to an extent all of those who think that any criticism that the game gets is hate) should realize that many of those "haters" are people who really love this game, probably way more than those who blindly praise the game,

---

I was with you until THIS part in bold.

It's fine to have criticism. But doom posting and incessantly attacking anyone who is positive about the game IS NOT fine. It's people who are miserable who want others to be miserable so they will feel like a powerful majority and so they can (they hope/think) get the changes they want, regardless of whether they are better for the game or not and whether or not anyone else wants them.

Blind hate is worse than blind praise, and most PRAISE isn't blind praise, it's just as valid as your "good criticism". I praise the game all the time for things that I feel are worthy of praise. There's nothing "blind" about that. You don't get to couch "your side" as rational and reasonable and anyone opposed to you as irrational and extremist. Especially when many on "your side" are the irrational extremists.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WaxSw

Negativity is just the consequence of constructive criticism that has been ignored/silenced over time. Both show that there is an underlying issue that have to be solved so their presence still holds more value than blind praise or the classic "just unsub" (guess what happens if people unsub, exactly, the game dies)

---

This is a horribly bad answer. Maybe your "constructive criticism" isn't as "constructive" as you think. Maybe it HAS been heard and cost-benefit analysis or other people's views were also considered and the end result was a rational conclusion that your view was not the one to pursue. Maybe you haven't been the one "silenced" - my experience has ALWAYS been when I offer actually constructive and neutral/rational criticism, people tend to accept it and agree with me, and I've been doing it for 8 years in this game. I never got brigaded by "white knight toxic positive blind positivity" people once. Maybe your criticism has never been constructive, or your tone in presenting it has been antagonistic, but I've always been able to praise and criticize this game and have been attacked FAR MORE for praise than for criticism, considering I haven't been attacked for my criticisms of it, only when I offer it praise.

Hell, I've complained about plenty of things, like no Exploration Zone or real Relic grind combined with longer patches, no real content for lower-core people to consistently do, no difficulty step between Normal and Extreme, Extremes being made more like Savage thus defeating the point of having a different difficulty and further making a gulf between Normal and "harder than Normal", some complaints on gearing processes, some complaints on Job changes, a LOT of complaints over Island Sanctuary, and so on.

I've been attacked far more for my positivity here, where my negativity gets an occasional Like or a complaint that...I wasn't being negative ENOUGH.

In any case, deciding to flip tables because you aren't being listened to and obeyed is NOT the good look you think it is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WaxSw

oh boi... let me show you the world of healers https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-healer-issues 3 years worth of feedback, one of, if not the most upvoted and followed post in the entire healer subforum and all of that feedback has been ignored AND silenced by the devs for over 3 years. This is also a very good example of how ignoring feedback breeds negativity, as the healer forum is a very negative place because of that same reason

---

No, this is 100% WRONG.

I've been a Healer main this entire time I've played. I also know other Healers. I've seen people not on these forums say they like Healers. And whenever someone goes into the Healer subforum and says they like Healers, they get attacked and run off. THAT is why that subforum is the way it is. Most people who don't hate Healers in this game get run out of there. I get attacked there almost every time I post because I don't support changing Healers into DPS/Support hybrids. That post is "the most upvoted" with all of, what, 275 votes in a game of probably over 2,000,000 players, of which at least a quarter main or frequently play Healers, and with many posters there saying they disagreed with the OP. There's no "Dislike" function, so you can't even see the ratio of those who agree to those who do not.

It's not a "very good example", because a TON of Healers in the game LIKE Healers as they are currently. The Devs very likely have read that feedback, but recognize it's a minority of the Healer players in the game, and so don't implement it. And the players who prefer to be Support/DPS hybrids hate it and make that subforum absolutely toxic because they are pissed off and throwing a months-long (or years-long at this point) tantrum over not getting their way and are determined everyone be as miserable as they are. Believe me, as a regular there, THAT is what that place has become.

The realty is, most Healers in the game right now very likely enjoy Healing in the game right now, and people who are positive on Healers don't post in the Healer subforum because the rabid salt-beasts there will viciously attack anyone who says they don't hate Healers.

Also, where has it been "silenced by the devs"?

By your own admission, the whole Healer subform is a fount of negativity and the most negative mega-post on that topic has "the most likes". How have they been silenced?

(Also, as an aside, I cross posted that thread into General to see if it would get that many likes. Not only did it not, but the thread fell off the main page within hours and hasn't come back. So apparently that view isn't even universal HERE.)

.

Sorry for the rant, but THAT one is total BS and I know from being INSIDE that echo chamber what a hellacious and toxic one it is and why that forum has so little positivity. It's not because Healers aren't positive or Healers as a whole are being ignored or silenced, it's because the people there try their hardest to run off anyone who is.

That place has so little "constructive" criticism, it's laughable to suggest otherwise. Ironically, it's the positive people who try to offer constructive criticism, and they're excoriated for not being more critical.

I'm just really stoked about outdoor furniture in IS. Fingers crossed that it's leading to instanced housing!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Boblawblah

I'm just really stoked about outdoor furniture in IS. Fingers crossed that it's leading to instanced housing!!!

---

Lat night in discord, THAT was the overwhelming commentary. They ARE on that path, it will just take time to refine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

I enjoyed the LL too! Island Sanctuary is going to steal my life, I can see it hahaha.


People enjoying things?? What has this world come to!

---

Not allowed to like it here. You have to tow the everything sucks crowd line or you're a boot licker. And I love Sanctuary too I have a slew of them not just with my main but many of my alts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by subatomic

Why do you have so much hate? If you hate the game so much just unsubscribe love <3

---

lol where is that " Unsubscribe collage" picture when you need it, I know I saw it a couple of days ago, if anyone has it can you please post for me to save, thank you

---------------------------

I never seen so many people excited for damn furniture lol instead of battle content you know what you would expect in a RPG but even calling xiv a RPG is a lie with all the RPG element taken away

Y'know what, I don't even disagree with their initial takes for the most part.

But their exchanges made it real hard to not think this is more or less what people usually call a 'karma farming'.

Carry on. Lmao.

Weirdest thread I've seen thus far-I think if most of you want to flirt with each other this badly, then you should probably just meet at one of those forbidden adult venue's that you keep bible-thumping about endlessly with that spark of interest not so subtly hidden behind in your eyes ingame instead of publicly making out here in front of all the rest of us who didnt consent to seeing any it. It's gross and it's weird, and even a little predatory to me personally. Now, that said, I'm actually really excited for the patch too lol. but I don't think it's the biggest patch in the world or anything. They don't finally kill off Zero or Graha yet I'm sure unfortunately, but there was a lot of stuff I wanted to nab and have, so for now that's good enough for me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

I never attacked anyone.
But I get these false labels very often, and I got made fun of for mentioning how much it happens.

---

Some of posters were labled as white knights, Yoshi simp, or SE defender even when they do offer criticisms in different topic in different threads.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aword3213

Some of posters were labled as white knights, Yoshi simp, or SE defender even when they do offer criticisms in different topic in different threads.

---

That is because the epitome of logic is as thus...

All criticisms must be homogenous amongst all posters, and if you disagree with 1 criticism of a given poster, that therefore precludes you from having your own criticisms in another facet/area of the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaurhz

All criticisms must be homogenous amongst all posters, and if you disagree with 1 criticism of a given poster, that therefore precludes you from having your own criticisms in another facet/area of the game.

---

This is so bloody true hahahaha

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaurhz

All criticisms must be homogenous amongst all posters, and if you disagree with 1 criticism of a given poster, that therefore precludes you from having your own criticisms in another facet/area of the game.

---

Reminds me of a certain type of people I've dealt with in reality, they are not fun people let me tell you. They give the impression of having a hive mind and will bash anything that remotely is outside of their line of thinking, even attacking people for not looking the same.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Renathras

Do you guys not realize how absolutely and utterly ridiculous you sound?

"People actually like the game they pay money to play and post about on forums! How dare they! CLEARLY there is NOTHING redeemable about this game I continue to pay money to have an active subscription to, so anyone who likes it is a bot/troll/boot licker/sniffs farts, and are pathetic and CLEARLY deny ANY sort of criticism - even when those posters frequently offer critiques and criticism on the game, they're still attacking and denying criticism!! - unless one hates the game, likes and supports ALL criticism no matter how unconstructive, toxic, and ridiculous, and opposes ALL support or positivity towards the game, they're a hive minded bootlicker of toxicity because they're toxic white knight positives, and being positive and actually LIKING a videogame is the most negative thing a person can do!!!!"

That's basically what I'm getting from all the Negative Nacies here:

If you don't hate the game, you're a toxic positive white knight.

The only way you can prove you love the game is by relentlessly attacking it and anyone that likes it.

.

Do you GENUINELY not see how ridiculous you look saying that? "The only way to prove you love something is to hate it and anyone who dares not hate it alongside you!"

---

Thank you for pointing this out. Its so silly for people to immediately paint somebody who doesnt necessarily agree with you as an SE simp, or a white knight or being toxic positive when we all have gripes and criticisms in many other facets of this game.

People like this arent worth the time.

I think the savage gearing change could have been better, 2 for accessory 4 for the others ykno? So it's actually more reasonable to gear alt jobs. I am happy still with what we got but yeah.. they should have went harder on it!
And alsoo no savage gear from savage criterion is sad.

But I am still hype for the patch, all the new gear looks great so I will have a nice time hunting it all down.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

I think the savage gearing change could have been better, 2 for accessory 4 for the others ykno? So it's actually more reasonable to gear alt jobs. I am happy still with what we got but yeah.. they should have went harder on it!
And alsoo no savage gear from savage criterion is sad.

But I am still hype for the patch, all the new gear looks great so I will have a nice time hunting it all down.

---

its better, but they've could've been more.

I honestly wish there were some cool gear sets tied to Variant Dungeons. Perhaps you have a chance of obtaining a piece from a run, but you can still use the tokens you get to buy them individually and they also would give you special stats for whenever you do that content. Just some ideas.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Thank you for pointing this out. Its so silly for people to immediately paint somebody who doesnt necessarily agree with you as an SE simp, or a white knight or being toxic positive when we all have gripes and criticisms in many other facets of this game.

People like this arent worth the time.

---

Okay but the question is why don’t they spend their time on the forums providing their feedback instead of chastising people they deem too negative?

Because by all accounts that doesn’t make sense and the mud slinging doesn’t really start until someone posts a criticism and a “white knight” goes on to invalidate someone else criticism. And thus the cycle begins.

TBH a lot of people who claim to be “positive” really enjoy attacking and destroying others arguments on here for the hell of it. They also enjoy pointing out any issue they can find in others instead of trying to understand the main point the critical poster is getting at. That doesn’t seem very positive at all does it? It’s just the same toxicity with a different spin.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ath192

Okay but the question is why don’t they spend their time on the forums providing their feedback instead of chastising people they deem too negative?

Because by all accounts that doesn’t make sense and the mud slinging doesn’t really start until someone posts a criticism and a “white knight” goes on to invalidate someone else criticism. And thus the cycle begins.

TBH a lot of people who claim to be “positive” really enjoy attacking and destroying others arguments on here for the hell of it. They also enjoy pointing out any issue they can find in others instead of trying to understand the main point the critical poster is getting at. That doesn’t seem very positive at all does it? It’s just the same toxicity with a different spin.

---

(Bolded by me)

100% correct.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ath192

Okay but the question is why don’t they spend their time on the forums providing their feedback instead of chastising people they deem too negative?

Because by all accounts that doesn’t make sense and the mud slinging doesn’t really start until someone posts a criticism and a “white knight” goes on to invalidate someone else criticism. And thus the cycle begins.

TBH a lot of people who claim to be “positive” really enjoy attacking and destroying others arguments on here for the hell of it. They also enjoy pointing out any issue they can find in others instead of trying to understand the main point the critical poster is getting at. That doesn’t seem very positive at all does it? It’s just the same toxicity with a different spin.

---

Depends what you mean by feedback. Speaking positively about the game is a type of feedback, and it would be depressing if all we had to do is attack the game. Besides, I think many so-called 'white knights' do still accept the games flaws. Its just not everyone thinks such flaws negate the games enjoyability. Some of the negative posts here make it sound like any attempt to disagree or question with said criticism is ‘boot licking’ and akin to saying the game is perfect, without there being any middle ground. Plus, there are a number of folk here who are not acting in good faith. Many of the negative threads are pure troll bait, or our full of bias that they do require actual debate rather then just ‘I agree or disagree.’

Both sides certainly have a toxic element to them sure, but personally speaking I find the scales do tip more in one direction then the other, even if you and others will likely dissagree.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ath192

Okay but the question is why don’t they spend their time on the forums providing their feedback instead of chastising people they deem too negative?

---

1) They do. Many of us offer criticism. I have a thread here about how Extreme fights (and the discussion went into fights more generally) have changed over time and how I think Extremes are closer to Savage now and the game needs a difficulty between Normal and "harder than Normal". That's a criticism.

2) People are ALLOWED to post positive things. And when the same negative people going into all the positive threads to pick fights and berate people for being positive come into their threads, they are well within reason to rebuff those people.

3) The negative people are coming into the positive threads picking fights. They aren't innocent victims and people aren't going out of their way to attack them. Even with all the negative people taking issue with OP's first line, his line wasn't attacking the negative people, it was saying "there's a lot of negativity here, but here is some positivity". That wasn't picking a fight or "chastising" anyone. The perma-negative people here took it as a personal attack because someone dared not agree with them that they should be down on the game, and raided this thread to try and prevent any positivity from taking hold. This happens in seemingly EVERY positive thread here, indicating it's not "toxic positivity and white knights" we have here, it's "toxic negativity and black knights".

4) The mud slinging almost always starts when someone posts something positive - either in their own thread (like this one) or as a comment in another thread - and the "black knights" go on to invalidate the positivity. And thus the cycle begins. It's almost always the black knights starting this fighting - which they immediately blame on the white knights that don't exist. Reading through a lot of threads here in General lately, I don't see many or even any "blind positive white knights". People saying the game isn't horribad right now are generally doing so by offering actual reasons.

5) TBH a lot of people who claim to be offering "constructive criticism" really enjoy attacking and destroying others arguments on here for the hell of it. They also enjoy pointing out any issue they can find in others instead of trying to understand the main point the positive poster is getting at. That seems extra toxic doesn't it? It’s the worse toxicity of the two by far.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hurlstone

Depends what you mean by feedback. Speaking positively about the game is a type of feedback, and it would be depressing if all we had to do is attack the game. Besides, I think many so-called 'white knights' do still accept the games flaws. Its just not everyone thinks such flaws negate the games enjoyability. Some of the negative posts here make it sound like any attempt to disagree or question with said criticism is ‘boot licking’ and akin to saying the game is perfect, without there being any middle ground. Plus, there are a number of folk here who are not acting in good faith. Many of the negative threads are pure troll bait, or our full of bias that they do require actual debate rather then just ‘I agree or disagree.’

Both sides certainly have a toxic element to them sure, but personally speaking I find the scales do tip more in one direction then the other, even if you and others will likely dissagree.

---

100% correct.

I don't think I've seen a white knight in here yet. The people offering positivity often have some critiques of the game, and even those that don't aren't "reactively overpositive", they're offering reasons behind why they think what they think. Rationally disagreeing with a person who is negative does not make one toxic.

It seems that the toxic negative black knights also severely overestimate how constructive and non-combative they are as a whole. Some individuals are exceptions, but on the whole, the black knight brigade is a problem here as it attacks any positive feedback. And positive feedback IS feedback.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ath192

Okay but the question is why don’t they spend their time on the forums providing their feedback instead of chastising people they deem too negative?

Because by all accounts that doesn’t make sense and the mud slinging doesn’t really start until someone posts a criticism and a “white knight” goes on to invalidate someone else criticism. And thus the cycle begins.

TBH a lot of people who claim to be “positive” really enjoy attacking and destroying others arguments on here for the hell of it. They also enjoy pointing out any issue they can find in others instead of trying to understand the main point the critical poster is getting at. That doesn’t seem very positive at all does it? It’s just the same toxicity with a different spin.

---

So you can complain about the game and pick apart every issue you find in the game but no one can do the same to you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by subatomic

So you can complain about the game and pick apart every issue you find in the game but no one can do the same to you?

---

...Yes? Thats the whole point of the forums? One thing is a game and another different is a person? The difference is pretty basic. One can try to argument with another player about the complains one may have, but there is actually a very big difference between doing that and calling others haters and telling them to "just unsuscribe".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ath192

Okay but the question is why don’t they spend their time on the forums providing their feedback instead of chastising people they deem too negative?

Because by all accounts that doesn’t make sense and the mud slinging doesn’t really start until someone posts a criticism and a “white knight” goes on to invalidate someone else criticism. And thus the cycle begins.

TBH a lot of people who claim to be “positive” really enjoy attacking and destroying others arguments on here for the hell of it. They also enjoy pointing out any issue they can find in others instead of trying to understand the main point the critical poster is getting at. That doesn’t seem very positive at all does it? It’s just the same toxicity with a different spin.

---

goes to show how little you actually pay attention to anyone on the forums except when the obvious loud people make their points. Ive stated numerous times on replies and other posts about how:

I dislike the current housing system, dislike the leveling experience, dislike the combat system, dislike the homogenous jobs, dislike the butchering of the holy trinity (tanks, healers, dps), dislike the character progression for being meaningless, dislike the dungeon and raid design, dislike the lack of meaningful rewards in Variant/Criterion dungeons, dislike parts of the MSQ, dislike the community, dislike the current EW relic steps being the exact same etc

Ive stated all of these things in one way or another but ofcourse because these statements have been mostly worded softly (for the most part, I'an no saint either) and or werent made into dramatic threads or abnoxious loud posts ala aveyond or hunkygladiator, they usually go unnoticed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WaxSw

...Yes? Thats the whole point of the forums? One thing is a game and another different is a person? The difference is pretty basic. One can try to argument with another player about the complains one may have, but there is actually a very big difference between doing that and calling others haters and telling them to "just unsuscribe".

---

People are behind the games as well... when you complain and pick apart everything someone does you're attacking the developers too. Learn how to make constructive feedback <3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by subatomic

People are behind the games as well... when you complain and pick apart everything someone does you're attacking the developers too. Learn how to make constructive feedback <3

---

You can kiss their boots all you want, doesnt mean everyone has to

Also you should prob stop writing <3's in every single post like a 12 year old

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by subatomic

People are behind the games as well... when you complain and pick apart everything someone does you're attacking the developers too. Learn how to make constructive feedback <3

---

Not really. My focus at least is usually on the product rather than the individual because if they have shown they can produce excellent work. However I don't think that's what is going on in Endwalker. Corners have obviously been cut in terms of content and the story right now is going nowhere. To say nothing of how thematically tone deaf base Endwalker was when compared to Shadowbringers, the perspective from which the MSQ was being written shifted from a place that was relatable to one that seemed to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the topics it attempted to tackle.