Yotsuyu's story is a masterful postcolonial feminist critique of female oppression

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

I know TitanMen is know as a troll but this was pretty insightful and wouldn't be something that was out of place on the Lore forums.

---

I agree. This is actually a very good analysis of the character and one that I agree with. Or as I was going to reply before I saw yours:

https://wompampsupport.azureedge.net...F943%2F93f.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

It's also good to point out how Yotsuyu climbed the ranks to become the acting viceroy of Doma. There's a lack of kindness towards women in a lot of professional industries. Look at the leaders of the world in politics, look at the leaders of the world in business. Most of them are still men. Women have to work so, so much harder to progress up most professional ladders, and when we do often times we're considered cold because of how focused we are on making progress.

---

I'm definitely not taking anything away from the women who helped pave the way for those who came after them. Credit is due where credit is earned without question. However, when you say women have had to work so much harder to progress up professional ladders is where I take issue. The reason for that is because in order for women to have those opportunities in the first place, men had to live, survive, and die in the most bloody and violent national conflicts that have been recorded in our history. It's an acknowledgment that continues to get erased as women break through their "glass ceilings".

The thing is, it's still happening now. Here, in western civilization. Men continue to be the backbone of society that everyone takes for granted, and nobody thinks about. They are building the roads and railways. Excavating the fuel resources used to power, cool, and heat our homes. Pilot transportation vehicles. Run the electric grids, and remove the crap left by your neighbors so you have clean water to drink and shower with. They do all the high risk, heavy lifting labor, and more of them have job related fatalities per year, per capita, per demographic. Yet, nowadays everyone takes a giant steaming dump on them telling them they're not worth anything, while still expecting them to do what they do best.

If the crap hits the fan, and another WW breaks out, what's left of the world's "toxic masculinity" will be on the front lines, and the first to die. Meanwhile these corporate boss babes will be complaining about a shortage of toilet paper in the stores.

I definitely don't want this to come out as man vs woman thing, but like I said earlier, credit is due where credit is earned. Politics and corporate top guns is the last place I'm going to look to find the world's most valuable men AND women. When you look here, you'll find the most vile, corrupt, money and power hungry evil that couldn't care less about the people they govern. I would instead look towards strong families with prominent male and female figures within them, working together and loving each other in order to endure the worst life has to throw at them.

Perfectly put TitanMen.

Cringing, but not at OP. (-公-；)

Yotsuyu is a chick I want to step on me.

A well-written look at the character and her themes indeed. Yotsuyu is one of my favourite ‘villains’ in the game, she made for a fantastic adversary and I really love the tragic way how her story ended (How I wish she could continue being there with Gosetsu...) I think people often underestimate or ignore just how well Stormblood dealt with the themes of oppression and imperialism. It’s one of the reasons why I rank it higher then the likes of Heavensward in fact. The whole game actually does a great job with that subject, from ARR to Endwalker. Sure it may not always hit the mark (It also likes to ignore or downplay alot of those issues which come directly from within Eorzea) but it does a better job then a good chunk of fantasy media which deals with the ‘invading nation’ trope.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TitanMenII

The people who call me a concern troll are the ones who circle LGBT in big red circles and asking SE to ban them.

---

I think its more because your actions within said threads seem to very much point in a direction that says you are just using these minority groups as a shield to sew chaos and troll folk. Now do not get me wrong, I appreciate how at times it can lead to the most bigotted players to drop their masks and froth at the mouth, becomeing perfect candidates for ye old block list... but it also casts doubt on whether you actually stand for such things or if you are just as bad as those who openly decry LGBTQ+/race issues. It also makes such topics very hard to actually happen in meaningful ways without it melting into a toxic stew.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chloe_Saunders

Well I don't know about all the Feminism and all that but her character is a little more deep than that My thoughts on her isn't family values or loving your kids. Its about you need understand and listen to someone when they cry out for help, don't use them and toss them around like trash.

---

This is completely correct but there is another layer to this, it's fundamentally a critique of Japanese society, and it's something that comes up a fair bit in Japanese media, with the most popular example I can think of being Persona 5, because the issue is, to inconvenience others is a sin, you are supposed to swallow your suffering, accept your lot in life quietly, and if others are circumventing or exploiting the system to their benefit, you suck it up, you stay quiet, and if you try to bring it up, you are the problem and others ignore you, using P5 as the example, when you reach the depths of Mementos, you learn that people yearn for that complacency, that they would rather peacefully suffer than to rebel and bring chaos to their lives in any way, shape or form... and this is exactly what happened to Yotsuyu, she was expected to suffer quietly, everyone pretended her problems weren't there, until she completely snapped, she wasn't born evil, she was a good-natured person who became evil due to how the world treated her, and all she needed to be shown was a modicum of kindness, and yet the people of Doma refused to give her even that, until Gosetsu came along.

I know that bringing up Persona 5 can be blazé due to its tendency of being Baby's Introduction to Philosophy, but I am using it as an example of a different story made by a different company in a different setting hitting extremely similar beats, because this is a real social problem that Japan goes through, this goes deeper than just FFXIV and P5.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hurlstone

I think its more because your actions within said threads seem to very much point in a direction that says you are just using these minority groups as a shield to sew chaos and troll folk. Now do not get me wrong, I appreciate how at times it can lead to the most bigotted players to drop their masks and froth at the mouth, becomeing perfect candidates for ye old block list... but it also casts doubt on whether you actually stand for such things or if you are just as bad as those who openly decry LGBTQ+/race issues. It also makes such topics very hard to actually happen in meaningful ways without it melting into a toxic stew.

---

This. And it's why I won't engage with the actual OP. This poster loves just trying to throw RL political hot topics and strain to relate them to something in FFXIV. "LGBT!" "FEMINISM!" "CHINA!" whatever. This is a gaming forum and I don't care for twitter-esque conversations around political topics on a gaming forum. Better moderated MMO forums don't allow for this at all. But there is almost no oversight here, so here we are.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

This. And it's why I won't engage with the actual OP. This poster loves just trying to throw RL political hot topics and strain to relate them to something in FFXIV. "LGBT!" "FEMINISM!" "CHINA!" whatever. This is a gaming forum and I don't care for twitter-esque conversations around political topics on a gaming forum. Better moderated MMO forums don't allow for this at all. But there is almost no oversight here, so here we are.

---

XIV is in many ways a commentary on different aspects of our real life world so it's not out of place to discuss the themes in expansions that display that commentary.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gemina

If the crap hits the fan, and another WW breaks out, what's left of the world's "toxic masculinity" will be on the front lines, and the first to die. Meanwhile these corporate boss babes will be complaining about a shortage of toilet paper in the stores.

---

Not even going to try to dissect your entire post, but this specific part is messing me up because I just can't believe someone wrote this down without wondering who are starting those wars in the first place (hint: it's not the 'corporate boss babes'). Spectacular miss lol.

I can't tell whether this is alluding to an unhinged conspiracy theory about an unspecified group pulling the strings - billionaires, reptilians, the french - or weapons grade naivety.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raasu

Not even going to try to dissect your entire post, but this specific part is messing me up because I just can't believe someone wrote this down without wondering who are starting those wars in the first place (hint: it's not the 'corporate boss babes'). Spectacular miss lol.

---

Well I guess I'm stumped. How do I provide a rebuttal to such divine tiktok wisdom? I'm not the brightest bulb of the bunch, but I'll give it my best shot while trying to remain in your attention span.

First let me ask you something. Do you enjoy playing FFXIV? How about catching up with your favorite Netflix series, BBQ get togethers, or spending a warm afternoon with lover ones? How about just simply living and breathing? If the answer to any of those is yes, it has all been made possible through war. I'm not saying war is a good thing, and you're not wrong. War is started by men, but they are also fought by them.

When you do dive into the textbooks, you find out that there are always two forces at play when it comes to war: Good, and evil. War happens when evil tries to reign, and good men wage these wars to stop it. There is a saying along the lines of "the only thing evil needs to win is for good men to do nothing." You're able to read this and participate in these forum discussions because good men did something. They fought, bled, and died because they believed in freedom, independence, life, liberty, peace, and valued their families including all the women. They fought, for them and you. Do you understand?

Everyone living today, especially in Western civilization has relatives no matter how distant that served time during war, and you have them to thank for the fact you are even existing. If those wars were never started and won by the forces of good, you would not be here today.

These men. These disposable heroes. We have them to thank for everything, and I do mean everything. They start and fight the wars because they are built for it. Because it's in their nature to protect women and children. They value youth and femininity and will die for both. Evil seeks to destroy masculinity and femininity so keep that in mind the next time you see low T ladyboys and boss babes all around you.

Turing test for the average 0 iq FFXIV player passed
Well done TitanMenGPT

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gemina

Well I guess I'm stumped. How do I provide a rebuttal to such divine tiktok wisdom? I'm not the brightest bulb of the bunch, but I'll give it my best shot while trying to remain in your attention span.

First let me ask you something. Do you enjoy playing FFXIV? How about catching up with your favorite Netflix series, BBQ get togethers, or spending a warm afternoon with lover ones? How about just simply living and breathing? If the answer to any of those is yes, it has all been made possible through war. I'm not saying war is a good thing, and you're not wrong. War is started by men, but they are also fought by them.

When you do dive into the textbooks, you find out that there are always two forces at play when it comes to war: Good, and evil. War happens when evil tries to reign, and good men wage these wars to stop it. There is a saying along the lines of "the only thing evil needs to win is for good men to do nothing." You're able to read this and participate in these forum discussions because good men did something. They fought, bled, and died because they believed in freedom, independence, life, liberty, peace, and valued their families including all the women. They fought, for them and you. Do you understand?

Everyone living today, especially in Western civilization has relatives no matter how distant that served time during war, and you have them to thank for the fact you are even existing. If those wars were never started and won by the forces of good, you would not be here today.

These men. These disposable heroes. We have them to thank for everything, and I do mean everything. They start and fight the wars because they are built for it. Because it's in their nature to protect women and children. They value youth and femininity and will die for both. Evil seeks to destroy masculinity and femininity so keep that in mind the next time you see low T ladyboys and boss babes all around you.

---

LOL those are honestly kinda insane takes dude.

For real, I don't even know where to start. This is such an infantile and dishonest way of looking at the world. Telling someone to dive into the textbooks while also proudly declaring that every war is about good vs. evil is just too much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gemina

When you do dive into the textbooks, you find out that there are always two forces at play when it comes to war: Good, and evil. War happens when evil tries to reign, and good men wage these wars to stop it.[snip]

If those wars were never started and won by the forces of good, you would not be here today.[snip]

They start and fight the wars because they are built for it.

---

(Bolding added by me.)

Since you're clearly an expert on the topic, tell me who the evil side is in every war in history. I'm especially curious about the ones where the good guys were the aggressors. It'll be easy for you since you've done your textbook diving and you know your stuff. Plus the post I've snipped shows you're more than willing to bash out a novel-length post on a forum for discussing an MMO.

I mean it's not like you're a liar, coward, or idiot who'll say something like "do your own research" or "I don't have time" or "you're clearly a troll" or some other form of deflection or refusal. You're not afraid to put your money where your mouth is, right?

Easy-peasy! Give me the list and you're clearly Good; fail and you're Evil.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fulminating

I can't tell whether this is alluding to an unhinged conspiracy theory about an unspecified group pulling the strings - billionaires, reptilians, the french - or weapons grade naivety.

---

Its the french. Its always the french and their delicious croissants mind controlling us.

Speaking of French, what do you all think about the French vs English translation?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gemina

I'm definitely

---

Based Gemina.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gemina

War happens when evil tries to reign

---

Well, based until this. This isn't quite true. War happens when multiple groups of people have a disagreement that cannot be solved via diplomacy. Generally this is with regards to two or more groups desiring the same resources.

Whether those resources are land, animals, oil, gold, or people just depends on which war we're talking about.

The morally right do not always win war. There's a famous quote by Bertrand Russell that goes,

"War does not determine who is right, only who is left."

Sometimes those with the morally upright position are the aggressors who initiate hostility, while the morally repugnant simply defend themselves or stake their claim.

Sometimes the purpose of a war is even rewritten later by the victors, to make them seem more morally sound so their progeny don't have to feel bad about their ancestors, too.

War itself is often filled with hard choices both in sheer operation as well as on moral levels. Do you invade a country on land with troops so that you can distinguish more often between civilians and combatants, knowing that by taking this morally upstanding path you condemn more good men on your side to die? Or do you engage in less humane bombings that are without discernment, hoping to force a surrender to spare those good men their lives while still taking the lives of others, combatant or not?

In the end, our society has tried to wage wars it has been in, in a humane fashion. However, there is ultimately no way to truly succeed in doing that, because war by its very nature is inhumane.

Of course, if you do look into history enough, you find many an instance where lady leaders start wars and are actually some of the more willing war practitioners in all of history. Catherine the Great comes to mind most readily with the Russo-Turkish War. Not too mention overthrowing her own husband to take the crown.

But yes, it's still true that men fight war, and are responsible for holding up society.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/TepidUnawa...se-max-1mb.gif

Generals gathered in their masses
Just like witches at black masses
Evil minds that plot destruction
Sorcerer of death's construction
In the fields, the bodies burning
As the war machine keeps turning
Death and hatred to mankind
Poisoning their brainwashed minds
Oh lord, yeah!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Boblawblah

Speaking of French, what do you all think about the French vs English translation?

---

No idea, I can only say croissant oh la la

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reimar

(Bolding added by me.)

Since you're clearly an expert on the topic, tell me who the evil side is in every war in history. I'm especially curious about the ones where the good guys were the aggressors. It'll be easy for you since you've done your textbook diving and you know your stuff. Plus the post I've snipped shows you're more than willing to bash out a novel-length post on a forum for discussing an MMO.

I mean it's not like you're a liar, coward, or idiot who'll say something like "do your own research" or "I don't have time" or "you're clearly a troll" or some other form of deflection or refusal. You're not afraid to put your money where your mouth is, right?

Easy-peasy! Give me the list and you're clearly Good; fail and you're Evil.

---

You seem to be under the impression that the burden of proof lies on my shoulders. However, in order for ownership of that obligation to be mine, I would have to be making a claim instead of stating a fact. Now if I have to point out how worldwide known facts such as male and female oppression, slavery, slave trade, genocide, infanticide, assassinations, primae noctis, concentration camps, terrorism, fascism, and even religion itself are acts of evil that were the deliberate and main causes of war; you are absolutely correct. I don't have the time. You are clearly a troll, and do your own damn research.

What I well defend though is being called a coward. Do you honestly think I would come here and go against the grain and place myself in the heart of a hornets nest known as the FFXIV official forums if I was a coward? Also you state that you're especially curious, "Where the good guys were the aggressors." Dude, the good guys were almost always the aggressors.

How's that for you? Am I good, or am I evil. Lord knows that you have this right to deem me as such. So inform the echo chamber. We wouldn't want anyone getting the wrong impression, now would we?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Well, based until this. This isn't quite true. War happens when multiple groups of people have a disagreement that cannot be solved via diplomacy. Generally this is with regards to two or more groups desiring the same resources.

Whether those resources are land, animals, oil, gold, or people just depends on which war we're talking about.

---

When I was in school, this is what they would have liked us to believe. However, the perceptive and the not-so-impressionable minds knew or later found out there was much more to it than this. We are not the insect or animal kingdom, fighting over scraps so we can survive the winter. At least not after civilization was established anyway. Battles over resources was to determine who had reign over a region, and did so with uncontested power in their sovereignty. Diplomacy is actually a very recent term when taking the entirety of human existence into account. It came well after civilization as we know it came into existence. However, no matter how far you go back or recent you stay, the elements of good and evil are always there in one way or the other. And a huge reason for this is because some type of currency and sovereign reign always had a hand in human conflicts, each and every time.

Quote:

---

The morally right do not always win war. There's a famous quote by Bertrand Russell that goes,

"War does not determine who is right, only who is left."

---

You are 100% correct. But I never claimed that good always wins. I only stated that you, myself, and everyone on these forums who all enjoy FFXIV and other civilized forms of livelihood are able to do so because the good guys won. When the good guys don't win we get the Mexican Cartel, Vietnam, and the current US Administration.

Quote:

---

Sometimes those with the morally upright position are the aggressors who initiate hostility, while the morally repugnant simply defend themselves or stake their claim.

---

Like I told the last poster I quoted, the morally upright are always the aggressors. However, acts of hostility can be initiated by either side. Aggression does not always equal hostile. It can also mean assertive and steadfast pursuit of goals, which are then met with hostility. Pearl Harbor in 1941 is a great example of this.

Quote:

---

Sometimes the purpose of a war is even rewritten later by the victors, to make them seem more morally sound so their progeny don't have to feel bad about their ancestors, too.

War itself is often filled with hard choices both in sheer operation as well as on moral levels. Do you invade a country on land with troops so that you can distinguish more often between civilians and combatants, knowing that by taking this morally upstanding path you condemn more good men on your side to die? Or do you engage in less humane bombings that are without discernment, hoping to force a surrender to spare those good men their lives while still taking the lives of others, combatant or not?

In the end, our society has tried to wage wars it has been in, in a humane fashion. However, there is ultimately no way to truly succeed in doing that, because war by its very nature is inhumane.

Of course, if you do look into history enough, you find many an instance where lady leaders start wars and are actually some of the more willing war practitioners in all of history. Catherine the Great comes to mind most readily with the Russo-Turkish War. Not too mention overthrowing her own husband to take the crown.

But yes, it's still true that men fight war, and are responsible for holding up society.

---

To close, I will point out that I appreciate your take on the matter and delivering arguments with substance. You make a lot of good points that make things a little less binary as I attempt to make them. War is much more complicated than that for sure. It made me reflect on Generals Grant Vs Lee whom each made both moral and immoral decisions in order to best their opponents in a war that claimed the lives of hundreds of thousands of Americans.

My commendations good sir.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gemina

When I was in school, this is what they would have liked us to believe. However, the perceptive and the not-so-impressionable minds knew or later found out there was much more to it than this. We are not the insect or animal kingdom, fighting over scraps so we can survive the winter. At least not after civilization was established anyway.

---

Well, that's not quite true either.

Up until even just two to three hundred years ago, long after the establishment of civilization, the winter was still a serious threat to all humans that live in regions with winter. Without the large scale importing and exporting of the modern era, this meant distinct regions had to save up food stores for the winter. It was not uncommon for most of human history for bandits and other marauders to kill and take from villages and individual homes who had stored up for the winter, during winter, to survive.

Also not uncommon for most of human history for sovereigns to impose upon residents in their lands to house and feed their troops while passing through. Even if it came at the cost of killing those residents. Particularly during war time or in readying for war in colonial lands. Hence why that makes an appearance in the Bill of Rights for the United States.

I would say that we're around today because of the men who skillfully crafted our nation and who have lead it through the perils brought about by themselves and other nations. Not wholly good, certainly not wholly evil. We try to be good and do good, but it is so much easier to do than to be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Also not uncommon for most of human history for sovereigns to impose upon residents in their lands to house and feed their troops while passing through. Even if it came at the cost of killing those residents. Particularly during war time or in readying for war in colonial lands. Hence why that makes an appearance in the Bill of Rights for the United States.

---

The ARMY can't live in ya house. Put this down in writing. The ARMY can't live, in ya house.

(I love that bit with John Mulaney and the Third Amendment)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

It's also good to point out how Yotsuyu climbed the ranks to become the acting viceroy of Doma. There's a lack of kindness towards women in a lot of professional industries. Look at the leaders of the world in politics, look at the leaders of the world in business. Most of them are still men. Women have to work so, so much harder to progress up most professional ladders, and when we do often times we're considered cold because of how focused we are on making progress.

---

I wonder why such claims are always based on position of power.

Who most bricklayers are men? It’s so unfair. We need to equalize that and start forcing women to work as bricklayers to achieve equality.

Jobs with high risks of physical harm are overwhelmingly men too.

Jobs in certain fields are dominated by women too and it’s fine. Women just have different interests in life and they’re free to pursue their own ideals.

Leaders of business don’t sit at their office doing nothing but sipping latte. It’s a very competitive position. You have to work so hard that you have no such thing as personal life. You have to wake up in the middle of night to answer the calls from your clients and the first thing you say would be “so happy to hear you.” One mistake from you, somebody will take over your position in a moment’s notice.

I’m not saying women are incapable of being in such positions. Men and women simply have priorities in life. Simple as that.

Well this topic took one hell of a left turn into WTF territory.

Very nice analysis OP. Stormblood is a far deeper and better expansion than most people give it credit for. Sadly, all of that was replaced with the cheap Marvel-esque popcorn fare in Shadowbringers. And shame for all of the “fans” calling this poster a troll. How many hours have you spent AFK in Limsa today? You know they don’t give out gold p*rses for idling, right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mana-burner

If you bothered to read OP's source:



I don't come to the forums often but it seems like everyone is having a kneejerk reaction based on who the OP is? I feel like there's some context to why everyone is so hostile that I'm not getting.

---

Fashionably late to the party as I ever am, but I was wondering the same thing. I thought their "review" of her story was very insightful and spot on and I enjoyed it.

I think the Lalafell Lifter is too high.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gemina

I'm definitely not taking anything away from the women who helped pave the way for those who came after them. Credit is due where credit is earned without question. However, when you say women have had to work so much harder to progress up professional ladders is where I take issue. The reason for that is because in order for women to have those opportunities in the first place, men had to live, survive, and die in the most bloody and violent national conflicts that have been recorded in our history. It's an acknowledgment that continues to get erased as women break through their "glass ceilings".

The thing is, it's still happening now. Here, in western civilization. Men continue to be the backbone of society that everyone takes for granted, and nobody thinks about. They are building the roads and railways. Excavating the fuel resources used to power, cool, and heat our homes. Pilot transportation vehicles. Run the electric grids, and remove the crap left by your neighbors so you have clean water to drink and shower with. They do all the high risk, heavy lifting labor, and more of them have job related fatalities per year, per capita, per demographic. Yet, nowadays everyone takes a giant steaming dump on them telling them they're not worth anything, while still expecting them to do what they do best.

If the crap hits the fan, and another WW breaks out, what's left of the world's "toxic masculinity" will be on the front lines, and the first to die. Meanwhile these corporate boss babes will be complaining about a shortage of toilet paper in the stores.

I definitely don't want this to come out as man vs woman thing, but like I said earlier, credit is due where credit is earned. Politics and corporate top guns is the last place I'm going to look to find the world's most valuable men AND women. When you look here, you'll find the most vile, corrupt, money and power hungry evil that couldn't care less about the people they govern. I would instead look towards strong families with prominent male and female figures within them, working together and loving each other in order to endure the worst life has to throw at them.

---

Why do you side with the oppressors?

It's funny how so many people are complaining that this is either inaccurate somehow, or is just "leftist" or something to that effect.

Did none of you read the story going in Stormblood when you were playing it?

Yotsuyu was literally sold into sex slavery AS A CHILD.

I just started SB, but I found OP's post and the genuine replies to it interesting. Regardless of whether OP is a troll, it's strange seeing comments dismissing an attempt to discuss how a story about imperialism....portrays imperialism. I think most players can agree that the story, while character driven, is also thematically dense. It would be a waste to dismiss or hinder genuine discussion.

On that thought, am I totally off-base for feeling like this game is showing us a fantasy/idealized version neoliberalism? After all, neoliberalism, as an economic and ethical theory, is quite nice. Although in real world terms it's more of an ideology or strategy than mere theory, I'd still be 100% down for that type of story development if done right (somehow). I just got to the part in SB where we meet the East Aldenard Company (a reference to the irl East Indian Company and its storied involvements with various colonial projects) and I don't think it's a coincidence or just a convenient narrative tool that Lolorito (who in ARR and HW was an embodiment of radical liberal economics imo) is now the chairperson of the East Aldenard Trading Company.

Maybe the game goes in a completely different direction and I could be wrong, but I'd love to hear the thoughts of other players who had similar or differing reactions from mine.

In case anyone's interested, here's a quick rundown from Britannica of what the East Indian Company was: "It was an English company formed for the exploitation of trade with East and Southeast Asia and India. Although it started as a monopolistic trading body, it became involved in politics and acted as an agent of British imperialism in India from the early 18th century to the mid-19th century."

It's not that deep bro

Divorce real life issues with gaming. Save this game from the garbage that's happening to modern gaming. I just want to enjoy the game and not preached on how terrible of a person i am just because I am a man.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

It's not that deep bro

---

Maybe, but interviews with the writers, Oda and Ishikawa, more than suggest that there is deeper storytelling going on than popcorn entertainment for the average teenage gamer. Oda himself has said that he was inspired by all the history books he reads and wants to portray the realities of various irl geopolitical conflicts in the game. Oda even states that his university studies in Philosophy and Ideology played a role in how he wrote the story.

https://www.4gamer.net/games/199/G019924/20210810055/

https://www.rpgsite.net/interview/88...-and-banri-oda

"Oda: Final Fantasy XIV's approach to reflecting real-world issues is influenced by Tactics Ogre. There is an element of massacre there, and if I didn't play this game the approach to Final Fantasy XIV's story would have been different. Tactics Ogre has a story that includes ethnic cleansing that greatly influenced my desire to reflect real-life conflicts and issues to make Final Fantasy XIV more realistic."

Granted, in 2016 Oda did say he would like to make simpler stories, but that's in contradiction to his more recent statements.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rawker

Divorce real life issues with gaming. Save this game from the garbage that's happening to modern gaming. I just want to enjoy the game and not preached on how terrible of a person i am just because I am a man.

---

Fair enough, how people enjoy a game is their business and valid. But in view of Oda explicitly saying that he wanted to reflect real-life conflicts and issues, divorcing real life issues from FFXIV seems kinda contrary to the spirit of the game, or at least its writing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnLakeside

I just started SB, but I found OP's post and the genuine replies to it interesting. Regardless of whether OP is a troll, it's strange seeing comments dismissing an attempt to discuss how a story about imperialism....portrays imperialism. I think most players can agree that the story, while character driven, is also thematically dense. It would be a waste to dismiss or hinder genuine discussion.

On that thought, am I totally off-base for feeling like this game is showing us a fantasy/ideal version neoliberalism? I just got to the part in SB where we meet the East Aldenard Trading Company (a reference to the irl East Indian Trading Company) and I don't think it's a coincidence or just a convenient narrative tool that Lolorito (who in ARR and HW was an embodiment of radical liberal economics imo) is now the chairperson of the East Aldenard Trading Company.

Maybe the game goes in a completely different direction and I could be wrong, but in case I'm not, I'd love to hear the thoughts of other players who had similar or differing reactions from mine.

---

The lack of historical and political education is pretty showing in a lot of replies.

"Location: Half-white, half-PoC, 2SLGBTQIA+, he/they, gender-questioning, poly/ace and also homoromantic"

was all I needed to see to know this was a troll thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnLakeside

I just started SB, but I found OP's post and the genuine replies to it interesting. Regardless of whether OP is a troll, it's strange seeing comments dismissing an attempt to discuss how a story about imperialism....portrays imperialism. I think most players can agree that the story, while character driven, is also thematically dense. It would be a waste to dismiss or hinder genuine discussion.

On that thought, am I totally off-base for feeling like this game is showing us a fantasy/idealized version neoliberalism? After all, neoliberalism, as an economic or ethical theory, is quite nice. Although in real world terms it's more of an ideology or strategy than mere theory, I'd still be 100% down for that type of story development if done right (somehow). I just got to the part in SB where we meet the East Aldenard Company (a reference to the irl East Indian Company and its storied involvements with various colonial projects) and I don't think it's a coincidence or just a convenient narrative tool that Lolorito (who in ARR and HW was an embodiment of radical liberal economics imo) is now the chairperson of the East Aldenard Trading Company.

Maybe the game goes in a completely different direction and I could be wrong, but I'd love to hear the thoughts of other players who had similar or differing reactions from mine.

In case anyone's interested, here's a quick rundown from Britannica of what the East Indian Company was: "It was an English company formed for the exploitation of trade with East and Southeast Asia and India. Although it started as a monopolistic trading body, it became involved in politics and acted as an agent of British imperialism in India from the early 18th century to the mid-19th century."

---

A lot of it is related. Yoship confessed a while ago that endwalker was influenced by the "planneddemic." So in concrete fact RL has some influence in the game's writing. Dawntrail is basically 1500s trip to north/south america.
Some, however, are afraid of history for interesting reasons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SassyAssassin

Titanman’s ears can’t hear right, no wonder with all that bullcrap between them.


“Westward lies bleed t'ward the east
Wayward daughter, step into the night
Restless eyes, blind to the beast
Barren waters yield unto the tide”

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Wayward_Daughter

---

Titanmen always uses false info, lies and over exaggeration to lure in people to think he actually wants to move something. He just wants attention which he gets.

The Song lyrics and their meaning:

“Westward lies bleed t'ward the east" She is made to believe that power will get her what she wants
"Wayward daughter, step into the night" She becomes a Primal representing night and moonlight
"Restless eyes, blind to the beast" She is blind to the fact that the Primal power eats away at her consciousness, slowly erasing her personality.
"Barren waters yield unto the tide” No Tears left to cry, hate and violence are all she has to give now.

Also: this is a story in a video Game. Please see it as such and do not try to link EVERYTHING to Real life People.

There are no actual Cat or Lizard People when you look outside.