Bring back unskippable cutscenes.

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Originally Posted by PikoAliapoh

Every alliance raid, it's a race to see who can shout about "CS! WE HAVE CUTSCENES! WAIT FOR THE CUTSCENES!"

The last raid I queued into, someone started shouting about cutscenes within 5 seconds of zoning in.

The intense level of emotion a lot of people have around making sure they're the cutscene savior for anyone new to the raid is getting absurd.

It'd come off as more kind and helpful if vets and mentors asked if anyone wanted the raid to wait for cutscenes, or if anyone ever actually informed sprouts that they can view cutscenes outside of content in the inn rooms. But instead, it's a shouting match about cutscenes before you can even queue into a raid nowadays. Years ago on my server, no one ever said a word about cutscenes, people just ran the content and moved on.

At this point, I'd prefer to sit through unskippable cutscenes on alliance raids than witness the ridiculous way people behave around them.

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I usually do a /readycheck at the last boss. If I see automatic "No" I put a countdown of 30 secs. 30 secs is more than enough to see a cutscene, euphrosyne final boss is a 24 seconds, for example.

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

Even if you buy a skip you're still new to that instance the first time you run it. And it will say new player and show the bonus.
And alliance raids, aside from CT, same as any non-msq content, aren't part of the skip, you have o go and unlock them yourself with all the quests as normal, also.
That said, someone may still buy a skip on an alt cause they don't wanna go through the whole msq again but want to watch that particular cutscene still cause they like it. Although that makes them not new to the instance while being notified as new.

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I know, I phrased it a bit weird. It does still notify if the level 90 is new, but at the point, I find it honestly extremely silly to wait. I'm pretty sure it'll still say a level 90 is new in an MSQ duty if they bought a skip (don't quite me on that, I've never bought one). If the level 90 in CT is watching cutscenes, I get annoyed. 'Cause if it's a main that they skipped on, they obviously didn't care about the story to begin with, so why are they holding everyone up? If it's an alt that is watching the cutscene, again, why are you making everyone wait? If you likes the cutscene and have already seen it, go watch it in the in room. Don't go into a duty and hold potentially 23 people up just because you want to rewatch it.

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

Yeah this honestly would be good, and those cutscenes are way shorter than the ones at the start too.

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If they're way shorter, then how is it that apparently these new people miss so much of the fight?

I'm not opposed to waiting. I'm not one to usually run in and pull. But you (in the general sense, not you in particular) can't say that the cutscenes are super short so it doesn't hurt to wait out one side of your mouth while also saying pulling during cutscene makes the sprout miss too much of the fight out the other side of your mouth. It can't be both. If the cutscene is short, they don't miss much. A raid wide. If they're missing too much, obviously the cutscene isn't very short.

It makes me sad that this is even a discussion. Is it so hard to give someone a few seconds to watch a cut scene? Why cant people just be polite and decent to one another? Those other warriors of light aren't just pixels on your screen that exist for you to complete content. They are living breathing people behind a screen, just like you.

Its just people being selfish and then trying to justify their priorities over others. Its a disgusting attitude to see in a game where you play with other real people.

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

But you (in the general sense, not you in particular) can't say that the cutscenes are super short so it doesn't hurt to wait out one side of your mouth while also saying pulling during cutscene makes the sprout miss too much of the fight out the other side of your mouth. It can't be both. If the cutscene is short, they don't miss much. A raid wide. If they're missing too much, obviously the cutscene isn't very short.

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I think it's what someone else said, the fact that you can only have a first run once and you'll never get that back. So while waiting a bunch of seconds (however long it is) while doing your usual weekly/whatever run doesn't change much to you, the first impression totally changes if you get out of the cutscene and THEN start the fight, vs if you get out of the cutscene and are popped in the middle of a started fight.
Same reason I guess why we have he barriers at the start and we can't just go in and let the cutscene-watchers catch up later.

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

I'm not opposed to waiting. I'm not one to usually run in and pull. But you (in the general sense, not you in particular) can't say that the cutscenes are super short so it doesn't hurt to wait out one side of your mouth while also saying pulling during cutscene makes the sprout miss too much of the fight out the other side of your mouth. It can't be both. If the cutscene is short, they don't miss much. A raid wide. If they're missing too much, obviously the cutscene isn't very short.

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The cutscenes are short (a few exceptions excluded) but can you really watch them properly when you have a boss room lock countdown flashing across the lower-center of the screen because someone decided they weren't going to wait? Unfortunately, although the cutscenes are very short the same could be said of the fight, with most content being so out-levelled.

I cannot fathom why some players cannot wait for a minute to let a new player play the game how it's intended.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Its just people being selfish and then trying to justify their priorities over others. Its a disgusting attitude to see in a game where you play with other real people.

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The same can be said in reverse when 23 people wait for an individual in cutscene. Just saying

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

The same can be said in reverse when 23 people wait for an individual in cutscene. Just saying

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By that logic, why do we help anyone?

"Why should the team spend time helping a new sprout through content? If they don't know the mechanics and are dying as a result or if they are underequipped and doing little damage, they're slowing us all down. To stop DPS to keep reviving them or to take a few moments to offer support or advice just means we're wasting the time of 3/7/ or 23 others to help one individual"

I know that's not what you said, but it's the same kind of attitude. And it's that attitude which contributes to many experiencing anxiety whilst in group content, afraid to let their team down. It only takes a few moments to offer help. Just like it only takes a few moments to wait for someone to watch a cutscene and get that experience of running the content as part of the story for the first time.

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Originally Posted by Scintilla

By that logic, why do we help anyone?

"Why should the team spend time helping a new sprout through content? If they don't know the mechanics and are dying as a result or if they are underequipped and doing little damage, they're slowing us all down. To stop DPS to keep reviving them or to take a few moments to offer support or advice just means we're wasting the time of 3/7/ or 23 others to help one individual"

I know that's not what you said, but it's the same kind of attitude. And it's that attitude which contributes to many experiencing anxiety whilst in group content, afraid to let their team down. It only takes a few moments to offer help. Just like it only takes a few moments to wait for someone to watch a cutscene and get that experience of running the content as part of the story for the first time.

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This has nothing to do with the act of helping. It is literally only the act of waiting so an individual can watch a clip. There is no aide or lack there of in this act. I mean good attempt at turning it into something it’s not, but let’s focus on the point said and not create another that hasn’t just to respond to

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

The same can be said in reverse when 23 people wait for an individual in cutscene. Just saying

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By that logic, why even have established courtesy in society? The point is to be nice to people, especially if its their first time. But I guess that idea is too alien to some folk.

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Originally Posted by Scintilla

The cutscenes are short (a few exceptions excluded) but can you really watch them properly when you have a boss room lock countdown flashing across the lower-center of the screen because someone decided they weren't going to wait? Unfortunately, although the cutscenes are very short the same could be said of the fight, with most content being so out-levelled.

I cannot fathom why some players cannot wait for a minute to let a new player play the game how it's intended.

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Not everyone cares about the story. Not everyone cares about the boss being pulled. I didn't watch a single cutscene. Not one. I know I can't speak for everyone and that's fine. If a new person wants to speak up, then by all means, ask. Don't demand, as people don't take kindly to people copping out orders, but ask. I'd be more than happy to wait if you showed me the respect of asking me for more of my time rather than expecting it.

If it's someone who isn't even new, demanding people wait, I will not acknowledge them. They do not get to speak on behalf of the new person, especially when not every new person cares.

Cause I mean,

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

If I'm watching a cut scene and somebody pulls, then I miss the start of the fight. Oh well, it's not like I'll never see the content again in a roulette.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

I don't think that's the point. The point is you can only experience something for the first time once. And a new player experience is more important in that case than someone who's already been subscribed for years. We even get more items as compensation for that. It's not compensation if you don't, y'know, compensate. But to each their own. I have zero problems waiting, honestly.

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Here's an example of someone saying "I don't really care if someone pulls while I'm in CS"

And someone replying "Well you should, your experience as a new person is more important!"

Let people speak for themselves. Not everyone has the same opinions, new or not.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

It makes me sad that this is even a discussion. Is it so hard to give someone a few seconds to watch a cut scene? Why cant people just be polite and decent to one another? Those other warriors of light aren't just pixels on your screen that exist for you to complete content. They are living breathing people behind a screen, just like you.

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Lies. Everyone in DF is someones' pet cactus. Or some other inanimate object.

Average real people can't be that bad at pressing buttons.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

By that logic, why even have established courtesy in society? The point is to be nice to people, especially if its their first time. But I guess that idea is too alien to some folk.

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Established courtesy in society is also to not expect anything from anyone. To not assume you or anyone else is owed anything. To not make demands of people. Yet here we are. But I guess that idea is too alien to some folk /shrug

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

By that logic, why even have established courtesy in society? The point is to be nice to people, especially if its their first time. But I guess that idea is too alien to some folk.

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Again, courtesy goes both ways. If we were to measure this example of a cutscene for example, and we will say the cutscene is 30 seconds. Say 2 cutscenes, 1 at the start of a duty, and 1 before loot is allotted. 23 people together are giving 1 minute each. 1 person is taking a minute.
While that person is not taking 23 minutes for cutscenes, I won’t even try and swing that one, they are being given 23 minutes total to the 0 they are returning. Courtesy would be to take the same or less than you are given. Otherwise we would call this selfishness

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Again, courtesy goes both ways. If we were to measure this example of a cutscene for example, and we will say the cutscene is 30 seconds. Say 2 cutscenes, 1 at the start of a duty, and 1 before loot is allotted. 23 people together are giving 1 minute each. 1 person is taking a minute.
While that person is not taking 23 minutes for cutscenes, I won’t even try and swing that one, they are being given 23 minutes total to the 0 they are returning. Courtesy would be to take the same or less than you are given. Otherwise we would call this selfishness

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That's some creative maths you have there.
Nobody is giving 23 minutes here. Every individual is either giving or taking 1 minute. It's not a currency you can pool.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

That's some creative maths you have there.

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The math adds up. 23 ppl giving + 1 taking. I just showed my work. Common courtesy would be not wasting other people’s time and using your own. However this community generally extends a generous hand. However, generous should not be expected. Be gracious when you get it and accept it when you do not

I'd prefer if it's my first time in an instance that people let me watch the cutscene in peace. If any new person is present then I will way for them to finish. I got to watch it the way I wanted the first time so I will give that same courtesy. If they choose to skip it then I can see that. It's very simple.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

The math adds up. 23 ppl giving + 1 taking. I just showed my work. Common courtesy would be not wasting other people’s time and using your own. However this community generally extends a generous hand. However, generous should not be expected. Be gracious when you get it and accept it when you do not

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No, the math doesn't work in this situation. Nobody is being inconvenienced by 23 minutes.
It only takes ONE of those 23 people to screw over the 1 waiting. Everyone just needs to take ONE MINUTE of their time to not be an ass.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

That's some creative maths you have there.
Nobody is giving 23 minutes here. Every individual is either giving or taking 1 minute. It's not a currency you can pool.

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Yes, they already touched on that in their post;

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

23 people together are giving 1 minute each. 1 person is taking a minute.
While that person is not taking 23 minutes for cutscenes, I won’t even try and swing that one, they are being given 23 minutes total to the 0 they are returning.

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If you had actually read it.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

The math adds up. 23 ppl giving + 1 taking. I just showed my work.

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That's not how time works, though. 23 people giving up one minute does not cost 23 minutes. It costs one minute. You're pushing a logical fallacy.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

That's not how time works, though. 23 people giving up one minute does not cost 23 minutes. It costs one minute. You're pushing a logical fallacy.

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Already explained how it’s 23 individuals giving a minute each and not 23 minutes consecutive.

Holy math skills batman, no wonder people failed at Construct 8 if this is how we apply maths...!

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Holy math skills batman, no wonder people failed at Construct 8 if this is how we apply maths...!

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It’s not about the math itself, rather the measure of what’s given. If we could drop the narrow mindedness, we could get much further in discussions. Or not and remain stagnant

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

This has nothing to do with the act of helping. It is literally only the act of waiting so an individual can watch a clip. There is no aide or lack there of in this act. I mean good attempt at turning it into something it’s not, but let’s focus on the point said and not create another that hasn’t just to respond to

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Both involve providing a few extra moments of your time to try to improve the player's experiences of the game and community.

By providing a few moments of your time to offer advice or support during a duty, and remaining patient and encouraging through possible delays due to mistakes, you are contributing towards making their experience of the game and community a positive one.
By providing a few moments of your time to wait for them to watch a cutscene if they wish to whilst still allowing them to enjoy the fight in full, you are contributing towards making their experience of the game and story a positive one.

It all comes down to patience. Sadly it seems some players out there don't have it.

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

Not everyone cares about the story. Not everyone cares about the boss being pulled. I didn't watch a single cutscene. Not one. I know I can't speak for everyone and that's fine. If a new person wants to speak up, then by all means, ask. Don't demand, as people don't take kindly to people copping out orders, but ask. I'd be more than happy to wait if you showed me the respect of asking me for more of my time rather than expecting it.

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True - not everyone cares about the story and I fully respect that. We all play for different reasons. However, if someone isn't interested in the story they are free to skip the cutscene as we all do without any detriment to them. Similarly, some may watch the cutscene out of interest but not be too worried about others in the team starting the duty ahead of them. But this isn't the case for all and some do want to watch the cutscene while still being able to enjoy the duty in full.

Unless I misunderstood you, you would expect the new sprout to speak up and verbally ask everyone to wait a few seconds to watch the cutscene? Unless they have made this verbal request for 60-seconds of your time, you won't give it? Being new to a game can be intimidating - being completely new to MMOs even more so. Speaking up to a group of 23 veteran players to ask for them to wait for you when you've no idea what their response will be may be too daunting for some. The Trust system is popular for a reason and has helped to relieve this issue for many, but doesn't this suggest a possible lack of tolerance amongst few within the community which pushes new players into playing with NPCs rather than a team of players?

In day-to-day society, I will wait to hold a door open for the next person - I don't expect them to verbally ask me first. To me such actions show respect for the other person, whilst only taking a few moments of my time.

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Originally Posted by Scintilla

True - not everyone cares about the story and I fully respect that. We all play for different reasons. However, if someone isn't interested in the story they are free to skip the cutscene as we all do without any detriment to them. Similarly, some may watch the cutscene out of interest but not be too worried about others in the team starting the duty ahead of them. But this isn't the case for all and some do want to watch the cutscene while still being able to enjoy the duty in full.

Unless I misunderstood you, you would expect the new sprout to speak up and verbally ask everyone to wait a few seconds to watch the cutscene? Unless they have made this verbal request for 60-seconds of your time, you won't give it? Being new to a game can be intimidating - being completely new to MMOs even more so. Speaking up to a group of 23 veteran players to ask for them to wait for you when you've no idea what their response will be may be too daunting for some. The Trust system is popular for a reason and has helped to relieve this issue for many, but doesn't this suggest a possible lack of tolerance amongst few within the community which pushes new players into playing with NPCs rather than a team of players?

In day-to-day society, I will wait to hold a door open for the next person - I don't expect them to verbally ask me first. To me such actions show respect for the other person, whilst only taking a few moments of my time.

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It doesn't necessarily have to be the cutscene watcher. As long as someone asks and not demands, I am more inclined to wait.

I will use the same example of door holding. If someone says, "hold the door for that person" I will not do. Just as with an elevator. If someone asks for me to hold the door, I will, but if they demand it of me? No, sorry. You couldn't give me the courtesy and respect of treating me as a equal, instead choosing to command me and expect my obedience, so I will give you no respect in turn.

That is also society. You cannot expect everyone around you to conform to your wants and wishes. You cannot, in society, make demands of people, and not expect push back.

I could count the amount if times someone said "please" if reference to waiting for cutscenes in my 3 years of playing on one hand. It is always demands. A lot of the people who say "it's not hard to not be rude" also don't seem to understand it's not hard to say "please". /shrug

If you want respect, you gotta give it, too. That's not directed at the sprout, but rather the "saviours", as they were dubbed.

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

It doesn't necessarily have to be the cutscene watcher. As long as someone asks and not demands, I am more inclined to wait.

I will use the same example of door holding. If someone says, "hold the door for that person" I will not do. Just as with an elevator. If someone asks for me to hold the door, I will, but if they demand it of me? No, sorry. You couldn't give me the courtesy and respect of treating me as a equal, instead choosing to command me and expect my obedience, so I will give you no respect in turn.

That is also society. You cannot expect everyone around you to conform to your wants and wishes. You cannot, in society, make demands of people, and not expect push back.

I could count the amount if times someone said "please" if reference to waiting for cutscenes in my 3 years of playing on one hand. It is always demands. A lot of the people who say "it's not hard to not be rude" also don't seem to understand it's not hard to say "please". /shrug

If you want respect, you gotta give it, too. That's not directed at the sprout, but rather the "saviours", as they were dubbed.

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Kinda feels like you're projecting some sort of hostile intent on the people who suggest to wait for others in a cutscene. In my experience the message is often only "CS" when the group gets to the boss. That's kinda all that is necessary imo. It's a simple reminder to the group to check for people who might be in a cutscene. Why there needs to be more words than that I do not understand.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

Kinda feels like you're projecting some sort of hostile intent on the people who suggest to wait for others in a cutscene. In my experience the message is often only "CS" when the group gets to the boss. That's kinda all that is necessary imo. It's a simple reminder to the group to check for people who might be in a cutscene. Why there needs to be more words than that I do not understand.

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Earlier in this thread someone mentioned “courtesy”. Would it not be courteous to include certain mannerisms such as a “please” or a “thank you”? Surely this can be done, no?

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Earlier in this thread someone mentioned “courtesy”. Would it not be courteous to include certain mannerisms such as a “please” or a “thank you”? Surely this can be done, no?

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Could be. Though in games people tend to shorten communication as much as possible. Especially when one needs to get that message out quickly, such as before people pull a boss.

Edit: I would also consider it a courtesy to not add hostile intent to someone's words when trying to get people to wait for someone in a cutscene.

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

It doesn't necessarily have to be the cutscene watcher. As long as someone asks and not demands, I am more inclined to wait.

I will use the same example of door holding. If someone says, "hold the door for that person" I will not do. Just as with an elevator. If someone asks for me to hold the door, I will, but if they demand it of me? No, sorry. You couldn't give me the courtesy and respect of treating me as a equal, instead choosing to command me and expect my obedience, so I will give you no respect in turn.

That is also society. You cannot expect everyone around you to conform to your wants and wishes. You cannot, in society, make demands of people, and not expect push back.

I could count the amount if times someone said "please" if reference to waiting for cutscenes in my 3 years of playing on one hand. It is always demands. A lot of the people who say "it's not hard to not be rude" also don't seem to understand it's not hard to say "please". /shrug

If you want respect, you gotta give it, too. That's not directed at the sprout, but rather the "saviours", as they were dubbed.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Earlier in this thread someone mentioned “courtesy”. Would it not be courteous to include certain mannerisms such as a “please” or a “thank you”? Surely this can be done, no?

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So the disagreement isn't around waiting for cutscene viewers, it's more around a dislike of how some veteran players 'announce' them?

I presume this is more a matter of differing interpretation? I've never had much of an issue with it: I don't interpret it as they're 'ordering or demanding' me to wait, instead I view it more as a quick warning that there may be a sprout in another team who might want to watch the cutscene. Then I can keep an eye out - if it turns out that they don't want to watch the cutscene and skip it, then I'll start. If they do watch, then I'll wait out of politeness and respect.

Some of these calls may skip 'please' or 'thank you', but again I don't take much issue with that. They're calling with good intentions, hoping to make the sprout's experience as good as possible. As that's also an aim of mine, I will still wait, regardless of whether or not whoever called 'CS' said 'please' - I'm not waiting for the caller, I'm waiting for the sprout.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Already explained how it’s 23 individuals giving a minute each and not 23 minutes consecutive.

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So why did you mention it at all? It's a useless statement to make.
It's like saying the average alliance raid takes 12 hours of player time to beat, because it's 24 players each taking 30 minutes. But 12 hours, or the cumulative time of all players involved, isn't a useful metric by which to measure the length of a duty, in any sense.

Precisely why my first comment was "that's some creative maths".

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

Established courtesy in society is also to not expect anything from anyone. To not assume you or anyone else is owed anything. To not make demands of people. Yet here we are. But I guess that idea is too alien to some folk /shrug

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Thats really the whole point though. If we're talking about having good manners, then logically you'd want to at least adhere to the most basic of courtesies to not become insufferable. Nobody is going to like somebody who doesnt treat them with respect. But again this argument Im making is already a lost cause over the internet where thanks to the anonymity its easier to get away with just not doing so anyway.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

So why did you mention it at all? It's a useless statement to make.
It's like saying the average alliance raid takes 12 hours of player time to beat, because it's 24 players each taking 30 minutes. But 12 hours, or the cumulative time of all players involved, isn't a useful metric by which to measure the length of a duty, in any sense.

Precisely why my first comment was "that's some creative maths".

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You’d need to understand the difference between consecutive and concurrent first. As most people have responded in a manner to suggest there’s 23 minutes consecutive. The point is, 23 people are giving up their time for 1. The value of time of the 23 is greater than that of 1. So in my opinion, those who have the greater value are within their rights to keep their time if they choose. To give that time is a generosity. To expect it, is entitlement when what you have in exchange is lesser in value

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

You’d need to understand the difference between consecutive and concurrent first. As most people have responded in a manner to suggest there’s 23 minutes consecutive. The point is, 23 people are giving up their time for 1. The value of time of the 23 is greater than that of 1. So in my opinion, those who have the greater value are within their rights to keep their time if they choose. To give that time is a generosity. To expect it, is entitlement when what you have in exchange is lesser in value

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this is such a long and contrived series of verbose explanations and reasonings to tell to us that "I like to pull the boss first"

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

You’d need to understand the difference between consecutive and concurrent first. As most people have responded in a manner to suggest there’s 23 minutes consecutive. The point is, 23 people are giving up their time for 1. The value of time of the 23 is greater than that of 1. So in my opinion, those who have the greater value are within their rights to keep their time if they choose. To give that time is a generosity. To expect it, is entitlement when what you have in exchange is lesser in value

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Again, this is an utterly pointless, and worthless argument to make. (and patronising... and technically a little psychopathic to be weighing up the value of individuals)
The 23 are not more valuable than the 1. And further, the 1 person out of that 23 who pulls early is not representing all of the 23.
Maybe 22 of them are happy to wait for the 1 in the cutscene. Now you have 1 person pulling early, and 23 who want to wait. Now who's time is "more valuable"?

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Again, this is an utterly pointless, and worthless (and patronising... and technically a little psychopathic to be weighing up the value of individuals) argument to make.
The 23 are not more valuable than the 1. And further, the 1 person out of that 23 who pulls early is not representing all of the 23.
Maybe 22 of them are happy to wait for the 1 in the cutscene. Now you have 1 person pulling early, and 23 who want to wait. Now who's time is "more valuable"?

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We are talking time, not people. I have used time as a currency. Give it a rest

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

We are talking time, not people. I have used time as a currency. Give it a rest

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This logic of yours only works if those 23 people are of the same hivemind set of "screw the CS watcher". There's a reason why people get upset over the single individual who doesnt follow the courtesy because it goes against the majority. So ergo, your explanation ACTUALLY works against with what you're trying to argue about.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

This logic of yours only works if those 23 people are of the same hivemind set of "screw the CS watcher". There's a reason why people get upset over the single individual who doesnt follow the courtesy because it goes against the majority. So ergo, your explanation ACTUALLY works against with what you're trying to argue about.

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Considering people are quick to rush in and join the fight, most don’t seem to have an issue with it. If a tank pulls, yes, I’ll run in. I’m ready. As are most everyone, including the maybe 1 or 2 people who speak up. If people speak up at all.

Generally, most don’t care either way.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Considering people are quick to rush in and join the fight, most don’t seem to have an issue with it. If a tank pulls, yes, I’ll run in. I’m ready. As are most everyone, including the maybe 1 or 2 people who speak up. If people speak up at all.

Generally, most don’t care either way.

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People start the fight because the boss already was pulled, they're not going to waste even more time wiping the raid. I seriously love these mental gymnastics you're trying to pull (lol...) here.
But the bottom line most people actually do respect the PT and that favors a lot more than the small few who dont care and just want to pull immediately.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

People start the fight because the boss already was pulled, they're not going to waste even more time wiping the raid. I seriously love these mental gymnastics you're trying to pull (lol...) here.
But the bottom line most people actually do respect the PT and that favors a lot more than the small few who dont care and just want to pull immediately.

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So it’s a waste of time not to fight it and let 1 person die than to wait for 1 person in a cutscene. Now I believe that’s a fine bit of mental gymnastics itself.

The thing here is there’s 2 beliefs and a middle ground.

1. You wait for everyone who’s watching cutscene, regardless.

2. They aren’t missing much, will run the content again. Etc etc

3. Don’t care either way

You only accept your belief as “the way”. However there are a fair amount of people who practice all 3. So it’s something you’ll have to accept and come to terms with. You play the hand you’re dealt. If people wait, ok, good for whoever benefits. If someone pulls, it’s not against the rules. No punishment will happen. However, attacking that person is against the rules, just as a cautionary. You just get what you get when you play with ransoms.

Enjoy your cutscenes =]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Again, this is an utterly pointless, and worthless argument to make. (and patronising... and technically a little psychopathic to be weighing up the value of individuals)

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So dramatic, anyone here have a plan going into politic? You're all showing great potential!