Can we get a 'Role Sprout' icon?

I dont think its needed.

Sprout icon is there to tell someone's new to the game, not that someone was too lazy to read basic tooltips

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Originally Posted by Bukachu

I dont think its needed.

Sprout icon is there to tell someone's new to the game, not that someone was too lazy to read basic tooltips

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There are plenty of other reasons why someone may not yet feel confident playing a job.

Another one of OP's posts

zzz

I think this is a decent idea in principal, especially with how fast new jobs can level. Had my first run at tanking recently, thought I knew what to do, but in reality... kinda knew what to do and hit a few things that either werent intuitive, or was easier said than actually done.

Wouldn’t make a difference. The sprout icon doesn’t mean much nor does the battle mentor icon. I unlocked Puppet Factory the other day on an alt that still has the sprout icon, ended up in an alliance with 4 battle mentors, 3 of whom ended up dying several times on the first boss while my fake sprout took pretty much only unavoidable damage. The sprout icon just means that the current character (not player) has less than 300 hours of game play (I think it is 300 but in any event it is an awful lot) and has not completed the last ShB mission.

If I am playing a job/role I am still learning or get thrown into a higher level duty I have never tanked I can just say so if I am unsure of how I will perform and if I think it may affect the group. I had that happen with sage and reaper, having the queue throw me into max level duties while I was still unfamiliar with the jobs.

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Originally Posted by Toutatis

Wouldn’t make a difference. The sprout icon doesn’t mean much nor does the battle mentor icon. I unlocked Puppet Factory the other day on an alt that still has the sprout icon, ended up in an alliance with 4 battle mentors, 3 of whom ended up dying several times on the first boss while my fake sprout took pretty much only unavoidable damage. The sprout icon just means that the current character (not player) has less than 300 hours of game play (I think it is 300 but in any event it is an awful lot) and has not completed the last ShB mission.

If I am playing a job/role I am still learning or get thrown into a higher level duty I have never tanked I can just say so if I am unsure of how I will perform and if I think it may affect the group. I had that happen with sage and reaper, having the queue throw me into max level duties while I was still unfamiliar with the jobs.

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Isnt this an argument to change the sprout and mentor system as a whole?

For example, tie Sprout to the job and have it disappear after a reasonable time. Maybe use a different icon if its someones first time in a dungeon (any job), and make the mentor system tied to wanting to help others with a higher barrier to entry, and without rewards like mounts?

at that point, make it be based in how long has it been since you used it in synced content.<that isn't PVP, VnC, Side content.>
since people can rust very easily.

(the largest issue the idea has is when is it considered an issue for the player to be accustomed to the job and move past the skill floor. <applies to both if the player can toggle it or not, or with restrictions> cause if it exists, players may come to expect it.
And those who are paper thin, and can't understand will cause a fuss over it)

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Another one of OP's posts

zzz

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Normally I'd agree with you on this but even with OP being the most obvious troll we've had ( at least since I've registered the forums ) the suggestion itself is rather sound...even if their story is a boldfaced lie much like all of their stories.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

Normally I'd agree with you on this but even with OP being the most obvious troll we've had ( at least since I've registered the forums ) the suggestion itself is rather sound...even if their story is a boldfaced lie much like all of their stories.

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the suggestion isnt bad... but if its a toggle system, VERY open to trolling.

we know the types, we have all seen them. basically toggle "new to role" and then play the exact opposite of what they should be and then say "hey, dont complain.. I am new to this"

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Originally Posted by PirateRyanG

Earlier, I decided to dive into the mysteries of Sage, and the healing experience is completely different to my WHM. Of course, I was catapulted right into a level 70 dungeon, and while I had a rough idea of what was going on, I couldn't quite grasp the whole idea of not overhealing.

So, can we get some sort of 'Role Sprout' icon?

For example, when I first started healing on my WHM, I just assumed that Cure 3 should be my go-to spell from there on. Luckily, somebody informed me on the first dungeon that I had Cure 3 unlocked.

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The "role sprout" is actually a pretty neat idea, but a couple thoughts:

-Do you mean role sprout or class/job sprout? Just using your example, if you played WHM a lot and then switched to SGE, you'd still be in the same role of Healer, so the "role sprout" idea wouldn't apply even though you're new to that particular type of healer.

-Throughout the FF series, different levels of the Cure spell can have different effects. It's actually rather common for some "levels" of Cure to be stronger single-target versions while others are party-wide versions. Best suggestion is what others have said - make sure to read tooltips!

Troll or not, it’s a good idea imo.

I’m not very confident when learning a new healer or a new tank class. Yes, I can just put it in chat, but the job sprout icon idea crossed my mind already.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

the suggestion isnt bad... but if its a toggle system, VERY open to trolling.

we know the types, we have all seen them. basically toggle "new to role" and then play the exact opposite of what they should be and then say "hey, dont complain.. I am new to this"

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Toggle is a one time off. It needs to be there for people who don't like showing they are wearing "learner plates". But once it's been manually toggled off, it should be completely off.

Also, I think, it's clear there should be no novice network access for a Role Sprout.

Based on the sprout coming from the Japanese Wakaba (Green Leaf) driver sticker, maybe we use a variation of the Kōreisha (Elder) driver sticker?

https://i.gyazo.com/1d7a5aecec83e705...87294e693c.png

Which might be like a clover. indicating a player who has a 90 character, in/completed Endwalker, and new to a role.

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Originally Posted by Bukachu

I dont think its needed.

Sprout icon is there to tell someone's new to the game, not that someone was too lazy to read basic tooltips

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It isn't a case of not reading tool tips.

Some tool tips can be tough to understand, especially when you pick up a job that starts at a high level. Samurai, for instance, requires a lot of connecting the dots to work out what the words mean. I don't normally play DPS and even reading the tool tips made it seem confusing as hell.

There is an ability for AST. Forgot the name. The tool tip says that it activates when you have drawn 3 cards. Great!

Not so much, because the tool tip misses a key piece of information. This is the fact that the ability won't activate if you draw those cards out of combat.

So, there i am standing like a moron outside my home trying to work out what I needed to do to activate the ability. It just wasnt working no matter what I did, so I thought I misread it.

Once I got into a dungeon, I realised that it only activates on combat. Tool tip said nothing about that.

A lot of abilities are about learning how and when to use them. You can wail on a target dummy as much as you like, but you won't learn how to use those abilities in a real environment. The movement, etc.

Try learning how to pick up adds on a target dummy. Even that role trainer thing (that you unlock at level 15) won't teach you what you need to know for a real environment.

Duty support? The only ones I have done wouldn't allow you to learn as a healer or tank. One I did saw my duty support wipe multiple times. In the early dungeon with the fire dude at the end when he becomes untargetable until you kill the adds, the duty support tank just stood in the aoe (as did the dps) requiring me to heal through that and kill the adds.

You aren't going to go into any dungeon knowing your role perfectly. Ever. I have healed at a high level in every mmo I have ever played (bar ff14 as I am not at end game yet) and I will still require live practice when I pick up a new game, or I'll be terrible at it.

I mean, even jumping from whm to ast will have you heal on a slightly different way. The latter requires much more emphasis on your mana generating skills, which can be tricky to pick up and no tool tips are going to help there. Same with wrapping your head around the dishing out of the cards.

SGE can also be tricky to understand initially as the activation of your most powerful skills (ones that you should be using afaik, I am still new) require the activation of another skill beforehand for some reason. While reading the tool tips can help, you still got to get into the flow of things in a real environment.

But sure. Read the tooltips. That will teach you to play your class flawlessly.

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Originally Posted by PirateRyanG

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I get what you mean, but that basically is what people mean by tooltips.., To Read them, and practice.<but that reading, and practices is what usually gets repeated when improving for higher end content. but isn't solely for that.>

People expect, and reasonably expect at that, some basic competency when at higher levels.
But, whilst not wholly related to the topic, there needs to be improved teaching within the game.
But I assume they added the grid/chain view of the Actions Window to alleviate for some classes that have larger combos.<whilst with healers as you used, are mostly what combined with what gives the Greater output in healing, since there is no complexity in dealing Damage. Except for Sage.>

Tldr. we got what you mean, but the large majority understand that when someone says "READ YOUR TOOLTIPS.. !"-Jocat.
they mean for you to go and figure out how the skills interact act with each other on a dummy, and easy enough mobs that won't kill you when you're learning before giving it a shot I. easy content.<obv not all this at once. but this is the reasonable thing some would say they get from that. if they were to explain it to someone, as I do to you now>

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Originally Posted by GTK0HLK

I get what you mean, but that basically is what people mean by tooltips.., To Read them, and practice.<but that reading, and practices is what usually gets repeated when improving for higher end content. but isn't solely for that.>

People expect, and reasonably expect at that, some basic competency when at higher levels.
But, whilst not wholly related to the topic, there needs to be improved teaching within the game.
But I assume they added the grid/chain view of the Actions Window to alleviate for some classes that have larger combos.<whilst with healers as you used, are mostly what combined with what gives the Greater output in healing, since there is no complexity in dealing Damage. Except for Sage.>

Tldr. we got what you mean, but the large majority understand that when someone says "READ YOUR TOOLTIPS.. !"-Jocat.
they mean for you to go and figure out how the skills interact act with each other on a dummy, and easy enough mobs that won't kill you when you're learning before giving it a shot I. easy content.<obv not all this at once. but this is the reasonable thing some would say they get from that. if they were to explain it to someone, as I do to you now>

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Neah, its a crutch to run players down if they struggle with stuff. The tooltips explain a lot of stuff, and its important that players read them, but they dont tell you how to play a job and there are fundamental things they dont tell you.

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Originally Posted by GTK0HLK

People expect, and reasonably expect at that, some basic competency when at higher levels.

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Well, this is the whole point of the suggestion.

People can start a new class in this game, and using one example, if one has only DPSed until now, stepping into a SGE's (my main) shoes is a huge change of thought. The tooltips really don't tell a beginner to healing how to sage and there are no healing dummies. So it needs practice, and that practice needs people. So, it would be nice to have a symbol that you know the game darned well, and can do all the mechanics, but don't yet understand the mitigations of a SGE and when to use them, so take it a little bit easy please.

{edit: Finally, I talk too much, the now pointless daily limit got me}

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Originally Posted by Tiramu

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It's only a Crutch if you assume the vast majority of players will use it as a crutch to do so. But that isn't really the case. The mi ority that will, will be called out on it, and reported.

If anything SE/CBUIII needs to improve in-game resources to allow players of any level to tran themselves. <like an eternal SSS/Burning Field or what's it called that unlocks updates after the next patch/expac. but for different levels of content, and healing>

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Originally Posted by Shibi

-crop-

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Others have me convinced after seeing their points that the chance of it being abused, even if locked is much higher. I agree it's a good point. you can get that from my first posts in this thread.<thinking about how it'd work if it shows up, or what judges a person. as a role sprout again, cause People can lose skill faster over time than gain it>
And I did mention Healers in my post anyway if it was read.

People are willing to lend a hand, and are understanding. Specially when a player let's it know to the party that it has been awhile.
<Those on console still are able to communicate. I'm not wholly sure if they have a auto response. but tbh, there should be. if se hasn't though of that.>
[and this, have to say just in case, is a separate topic from Player cooperation. or a teams personal perception of how it a dungeon should be run.]

And like I said, while it may have extra steps. the one player that is worried to the point of being immovable. would slowly scale up where they practice content.
And simply put, just jumping into it doesn't always help the player. as they may result in just using the same skills.<for example pepsis being the most common one for players to figure out its specific usage last>

we need better teaching resources.
and like said I did point it out in my previous post. cause the Role Sprout icon is something that many could put on. and if it has restrictions even if the player still feels uncomfortable in the role, it's unfortunate if they lose it.

But they'll need restrictions to prevent the chances of abuse.
<which loops into itself>
[a player can still go into content and practice. it's just simply letting players know what to expect, which the majority are understanding. the icon would only highlight that, but it wouldn't do them any good since they still need to practice In an instance or in the open world. and read the tooltips.]
(Good idea, hence why I questioned how it'd work in my first post. but it might end up like a mentor Crown, but one that can be used to troll. and people will accept cause they assume they're new again to the role.)

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Originally Posted by PirateRyanG

So, can we get some sort of 'Role Sprout' icon?

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I wish they'd do this. I've got WHM at 50 but haven't played it since ARR and am too nervous to be tossed into something I'm not ready for that I won't touch it. My only other option is directly queuing for all the dungeons in increasing level order to get used to new skills incrementally. That's not exactly appealing.

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Originally Posted by Illmaeran

I wish they'd do this. I've got WHM to level 50 but haven't played it since ARR and am too nervous to be tossed into something I wouldn't be ready for that I won't touch it even though I want to do all the role quests. My only other option is directly queuing for all the dungeons in increasing level order to get used to new skills incrementally. That's not exactly appealing.

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MSQ roulette is great for this. It's pretty easy and it's the first thing i did with Sage after reading my tooltips.
Also there's the trust for ARR and HW now, i imagine it can be a nice place to learn your job from 50 to 60.

I don't care if the OP is a known troll or liar. The Op had a good idea so stick to the topic.

Even Titan man had a good idea sometimes

We can use the shoshinsha mark. It's recognizeable as a symbol for people learning how to drive in Japan, and it'd stand out enough in the West to be noticeable.

https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.3085...,f8f8f8.u5.jpg

Here's hoping people won't think this is a Paladin Shield tho |D

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

We can use the shoshinsha mark. It's recognizeable as a symbol for people learning how to drive in Japan, and it'd stand out enough in the West to be noticeable.

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The Wakaba mark is the current sprout, so it's not ideal. We don't want to mark role newbs with that.

The Kōreisha mark - which could be displayed as a tilted 4 leaf clover - is better suited, as I mentioned earlier in the thread.

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Originally Posted by Illmaeran

I wish they'd do this. I've got WHM at 50 but haven't played it since ARR and am too nervous to be tossed into something I'm not ready for that I won't touch it. My only other option is directly queuing for all the dungeons in increasing level order to get used to new skills incrementally. That's not exactly appealing.

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I don't think WHM at 50 has that many spells now. The actual spells seem to roll in after this. I don't know if this has changed from before?

In Level 50 MSQ, I can only seem to recall using the following with any great frequency:

1. Cure II
2. Medica I
3. Medica II
4. Regen

Plus the 3 DPS spells.

On Ultima Weapon, I do have to drop a Lucid Dreaming to regain mana if the group is fairly new, but nothing too crazy. That fight is incredibly long (both halves), and tough keeping up Mana when people fail to avoid the AOEs (which is fine, I did the same when I was new).

You should be fine at level 50 WHM as the toolkit is incredibly limited.

Most of the time, you can just drop a regen on the tank and then DPS away. You may have to throw in a Cure II every so often, and then a Medica II and Medica I on a boss.

And yeah, gaining the skills incrementally isn't appealing at all. For the first half of ARR dungeons, you have a single target cure, an AOE heal, a DPS spell and a DOT. It isn't until level 35 you get anything else worthwhile.

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Originally Posted by GTK0HLK

It's only a Crutch if you assume the vast majority of players will use it as a crutch to do so. But that isn't really the case. The mi ority that will, will be called out on it, and reported.

If anything SE/CBUIII needs to improve in-game resources to allow players of any level to tran themselves. <like an eternal SSS/Burning Field or what's it called that unlocks updates after the next patch/expac. but for different levels of content, and healing>

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The reason I say it's a crutch is because experienced players tend to act like reading the tooltips will teach a player how to play their role to a competent degree. They don't and a lot of the issues players have are baked into the games design.

For example, just off the top of my head:

- Do not teach a tank to mitigate or pull

- That red skills can be interrupted and yellow skills cannot; despite it being completely unintuitive.

- Do not teach healers which debuffs can and cannot be cleansed

- Do not teach you the optimal pre-pull buff order, or when you should ideally use your buffs.

- Do not teach healers which healing spells they should be using, and in some cases encourage them into bad habits.

- Ninjas mundra combos are buried away in the Actions and Skills panel

- For some weird reason LB is not defaulted onto the hot bar like other important skills

- The LB tooltip gives a vague description for each role

- They give a vague indicator for rotations, but there isn't a clear explanation. Hell, we just use certain rotations because in Icy Veins and Wesk Alber we trust.

- Tooltips do not teach battle mechanics, we tend to learn those through trial and error, being told, or watching guides. Nobody can be good at their job until they have the mechanics for individual battles down, and at times mechanics can be so abstract there is no wonder people struggle with them.

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we need better teaching resources.

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^ This is the problem, the game does a lacklustre job of teaching new players how to play the game. The job quests should actively be teaching players the fundamentals of their jobs, what their rotations should look like, tiered skills should upgrade and downgrade based on level/level cap, and teach the kind of mechanics that players are going to encounter in the content ahead.

Furthermore, I think the speed in jobs can level is a problem. I've discussed before how I played SMN to about around lv60, unlocked Scholar and rolled into around lv60 content... it made learning Scholar much harder than it needed to be.

When I unlocked PLD I went from Lv16 to 52 in 7 dungeons. That is nowhere near enough time for someone who has never tanked before to learn how to tank. This is on a pref. server, but still.

It's here where a job specific sprout icon could come in useful, especially if it grew based on how much content they'd have completed on that job.

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Originally Posted by GTK0HLK

Others have me convinced after seeing their points that the chance of it being abused, even if locked is much higher. I agree it's a good point. you can get that from my first posts in this thread.<thinking about how it'd work if it shows up, or what judges a person. as a role sprout again, cause People can lose skill faster over time than gain it>

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This specifically, because my post was too long, I don't think it matters. Trolls and griefers are going to troll and grief anyway, and a job sprout icon isn't going to change that. They have the ability to pretend to be new to mess with other players with the current icon, or with no icon at all.

Worrying about abuse of sprout icons is worrying about a problem that exists with or without.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Can we get people to read tooltips instead?

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Can you memorize every tooltip when you are just starting a new job, especially if it's a job which starts at level 50 or higher? I know I can't. PirateRyanG's suggestion has merit.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I just assume that almost everyone in dungeons is either new to the game or new to the job they are playing. Sometimes they are not, but it is very frequently the case. Judging by most of what I see I think you can just assume people are new in casual content anyway.

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That's my standard course of action too, unless it's top level content; then, I assume the other players are more experienced than I am.*

*Because I'm a casual slowpoke when it comes to leveling.

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Originally Posted by Tiramu

The reason I say it's a crutch is because experienced players tend to act like reading the tooltips will teach a player how to play their role to a competent degree. They don't and a lot of the issues players have are baked into the games design.

For example, just off the top of my head:

*snip for brevity's sake*

It's here where a job specific sprout icon could come in useful, especially if it grew based on how much content they'd have completed on that job.

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Well said. I agree with you. FFXIV doesn't do an inadequate job of teaching people how to play. Reading the tooltips doesn't address that issue.

In fact, the language used in the tooltips is sometimes confusing and can lead the player to believe the spell or ability does something other than what it truly does. With that said, the thread is drifting away from the original topic.

Should there be a role/job sprout icon to alert fellow players that you are new to a job? I say yes.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

The Wakaba mark is the current sprout, so it's not ideal. We don't want to mark role newbs with that.

The Kōreisha mark - which could be displayed as a tilted 4 leaf clover - is better suited, as I mentioned earlier in the thread.

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Wait... huh? It's the current mark? But the current symbol for sprouts is literally a sprout, not that green and yellow arrow o,o

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Wait... huh? It's the current mark? But the current symbol for sprouts is literally a sprout, not that green and yellow arrow o,o

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Yep. "若葉" (wakaba) = "new/young leaf"

Edit: for some light reading :) https://99percentinvisible.org/artic...ng-experience/

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Originally Posted by Shibi

Yep. "若葉" (wakaba) = "new/young leaf"

Edit: for some light reading :) https://99percentinvisible.org/artic...ng-experience/

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OH! It's not an ARROW, it's a LEAF!

:| well, F that idea then

PS: ok but really that does NOT look like a leaf, Japan x_x graphics design is not your passion.

I don't necessarily think 'role sprout' icon is necessary but I'd like a 'job sprout' icon. Yes, I can read the tool tips, but they mean nothing to me until I see them in action.

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

Can you memorize every tooltip when you are just starting a new job

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Aside from potency yes, it's basic reading competency

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Originally Posted by FireMage

Aside from potency yes, it's basic reading competency

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Do you think - for example - when is the best time to use Soteria is explained in the tooltips? Or is that something that comes with practice?

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

PS: ok but really that does NOT look like a leaf, Japan x_x graphics design is not your passion.

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hehe, I can clearly see the reason behind your confusion! I think the graphics design of the arrow was very much based as the sprout's first day, when they haven't opened up.

https://i.gyazo.com/9882631f952a4849...f0643932c5.png

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Originally Posted by Shibi

Do you think - for example - when is the best time to use Soteria is explained in the tooltips? Or is that something that comes with practice?

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Strawman. The point was you should know what your tools are. Attack the point made or be quiet

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Originally Posted by FireMage

Strawman. The point was you should know what your tools are. Attack the point made or be quiet

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Who shat on your weetbix?

Look, it's not a strawman at all, you have all classes at max, so you should well know that even perfectly memorised the tooltips are not going to help a day 1 healer thrown into a level 70 dungeon. And that's going back to the premise of the very first post.

"read your tooltips" is fine if you are DPS, or maybe have a healer and are doing your second - but sorry, you are wrong, it's not a be all and end all.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

Who shat on your weetbix?

Look, it's not a strawman at all, you have all classes at max, so you should well know that even perfectly memorised the tooltips are not going to help a day 1 healer thrown into a level 70 dungeon. And that's going back to the premise of the very first post.

"read your tooltips" is fine if you are DPS, or maybe have a healer and are doing your second - but sorry, you are wrong, it's not a be all and end all.

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I'm not wrong at all. Again, potency numbers are the only thing that you shouldn't know off hand, and it's not hard to with looking over your abilities see what you have stock of and have a basic idea that some things were better versions of others

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Originally Posted by Shibi

Who shat on your weetbix?

Look, it's not a strawman at all, you have all classes at max, so you should well know that even perfectly memorised the tooltips are not going to help a day 1 healer thrown into a level 70 dungeon. And that's going back to the premise of the very first post.

"read your tooltips" is fine if you are DPS, or maybe have a healer and are doing your second - but sorry, you are wrong, it's not a be all and end all.

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It's because they has it in for me. That is why they are not a fan of this idea. Nothing more. I believe it stated when they accused me of being somebody I am not, and I called them out on it.

I am sure that they would be fine with this suggestion if it came from somebody else. I am also positive that they are not so dense as to not realise different learning styles exist. Many are going to be fine with reading tool tips. However, plenty will also be more kinetic learners and they need to use the skills in action to make sense.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

Who shat on your weetbix?

Look, it's not a strawman at all, you have all classes at max, so you should well know that even perfectly memorised the tooltips are not going to help a day 1 healer thrown into a level 70 dungeon. And that's going back to the premise of the very first post.

"read your tooltips" is fine if you are DPS, or maybe have a healer and are doing your second - but sorry, you are wrong, it's not a be all and end all.

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He's FireMage, it took me a while to twig on, but he's pretty famous on certain gaming forums. Acting like someone shat on his weetabix and trying to get under peoples skin is kinda his thing. He knows what he is doing.

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Originally Posted by PirateRyanG

It's because they has it in for me. That is why they are not a fan of this idea. Nothing more. I believe it stated when they accused me of being somebody I am not, and I called them out on it.

I am sure that they would be fine with this suggestion if it came from somebody else. I am also positive that they are not so dense as to not realise different learning styles exist. Many are going to be fine with reading tool tips. However, plenty will also be more kinetic learners and they need to use the skills in action to make sense.

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No, the idea is garbage regardless of you being a troll. We need less babying in this game, not more. Like if you can't figure out basic healing, uninstall, full stop

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Originally Posted by FireMage

No, the idea is garbage regardless of you being a troll. We need less babying in this game, not more. Like if you can't figure out basic healing, uninstall, full stop

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The problem isn't learning the basics. I can heal perfectly fine now. I have been able to heal perfectly fine as soon as I hopped into a dungeon for the first time. Have had initial issues with one or two later dungeons, mostly because you can't just read mechanics, you need to experience them. So, lots of overhealing. Something I would only have been able to learn in a practical situation. Although, jumping from WHM to AST was originally tricky because AST seems to have lower potency on their heals (or at least that is what it feels like), and the Mana recovery requirements are different. This means that you have to weave in even more skills to recover mana (including tossing out the cards). They may play exactly the same as the WHM in some healing which is easy to pick up, but there are other intricacies there too. As I said, there are some AST skills that won't even activate unless you are in combat and you don't know because the tooltips are poorly written.

You can even admit that Sage is completely different from that, and at first glance looking at the skills can be confusing as hell, particularly if you are jumping from WHM or AST (I haven't played SCH). Because you are doing far, far less active healing. It takes a while of in-game practice to get into the flow with that. You aren't learning it from a target dummy. A target dummy isn't tossing out damage at you. You don't know what your spell is healing the tank for.

However, if I decided to play as a DPS or Tank (something I have never, ever done in an MMO). Reading tooltips isn't going to get me anywhere. I may be able to nail the combos because FFXIV makes them all flashy. However, working out where to weave in my long cooldown spells? Positioning myself for the highest damage? All of that is going to take time for me to learn. It is a completely different way of playing from on my WHM. Even if I am doing DPS on a WHM because healing requirements are minimal, I would be avoiding completely different mechanics from those that DPS or tank. I don't have to pay attention so much to stray adds, particularly in a heavy damage fight. The tank will do, though.

I am 100% positive that the tooltips don't say when they grab adds. When to use your defensive cooldowns, etc. There are even people on this forum that seem to believe that defensive cooldowns stack. Why? Because the tooltips don't say anything different.

I personally struggle with melee in any MMO. Mostly because I have always played a caster, and I can work out caster range with ease. However, melee range is awful to get right when you are inexperienced. Again, you need that practical experience. No amount of reading tooltips will happen there.

I am so glad that you jumped into all of your jobs and played them perfectly from the get-go, though. Well done.

Not hard to not be a bad. Or a troll