Increase weekly tome cap, decrease token amount

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Not to mention, the whole one person having previously cleared screwing up loot makes it difficult to even go into PF. On the whole, their system is failing its intended goal.

---

That is a separate issue. They could make it so that if 7 people have cleared already, they automatically roll Need on the loot but it goes into a void if they win.

Quote:

---

This runs entirely counter to your previous argument for Savage. 25 runs is nothing. EXs would be basically abandoned within the same patch they release. Yet you'd prefer that but argue against making system lowing Savage and tome restrictions?

---

Rather than it being my argument, it's an argument I remember being made by Yoshi-P in interviews, where I remember he said he could write a book about why things like the current tomestone caps are required.

I'm perfectly fine with the caps and the lockouts. My only problem is there is no system to ease up gearing your other jobs. You basically have to focus on your main. In other MMOs I'd pug run on my alts after clearing on my main with my group and I always had something to do week because of that.

I'm not sure how they would go about it in this game, but I'd play a lot more if I could play all week gearing all the other jobs I like to play.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azuri

Making content is hard and Square needs something to milk raiders for their subs for 8 months.

"Please understand."

---

Nothing is forcing you from taking a break if that is how you feel. Stop creating drama over nothing whatsoever.

I still say let leave the tome as is, but change the system. Let us just unlock slots with the capped tome and buy the gear with the uncapped tome... that way we can gear other jobs with some effort and still dont have cap level week one...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deveryn

There's no justification for that vs. leaving it alone or having a flat permanent increase.

---

but there is, as has been pointed out in my second point. square wants you to "get stronger" at a certain rate.

having the cap go up incrementally would mean it wouldn't make much if any difference in the first month but help out tremendously in later weeks, that can be decently balanced especially when you consider that after 2 months or whatever literally everyone and their mother is fully tome geared anyway unless they changed classes.

just making it quicker to gear up from the get go on one hand heavily effects this "getting stronger to make content easier" aspect leading to some current groups clearing content a lot sooner (not talking world first raiders here, but the guys that are done by the end of the first month or so) which would make the raids look easier than they are (in a way it actually ruins the sense of progression if gearing up is to fast) and on the flipside means groups that are worse and basically need all the gear that exists to even have a chance at clearing a tier (if even that) to hit their wall earlier while at the same time having less room to grow stronger (in the form of gear they still need thats left).

and that isn't even going into burnout. if the tomestones where uncapped a lot of people would feel pressured to farm them until they are fully geared and would do so but would in fact feel miserable while at it. and no, "just don't do it" isn't an argument against subjective feelings, if it were than the answer to "raise the tomecap" would be "just don't rush yourself and only equip one job"

this whole thing isn't a black and white issue, and certainly what one person finds terrible another would call great, but the fact of the matter is that there are actual balancing implications to simply raising the cap.

Something people seem to be overlooking is the fact that loosening or eliminating the cap makes crafted gear useless. Tome gear is nice to help you get wins but people have already cleared with a bare minimum, so it's really just there to help things go faster. BiS will end up being a combo of items, so the problem seems to be exaggerated here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deveryn

Something people seem to be overlooking is the fact that loosening or eliminating the cap makes crafted gear useless. Tome gear is nice to help you get wins but people have already cleared with a bare minimum, so it's really just there to help things go faster. BiS will end up being a combo of items, so the problem seems to be exaggerated here.

---

Crafted gear still holds a valuable role in creating entry into Savage. Allowing the limitations on tomestone and raid gear to loosen over time will not invalidate that.

It's not really an exaggerated issue. The limitations as they stand fail to address the ever increasing list of jobs available to the player and do not at all compliment an RPG where changing jobs and gear is meant to be encouraged.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Crafted gear still holds a valuable role in creating entry into Savage. Allowing the limitations on tomestone and raid gear to loosen over time will not invalidate that.

It's not really an exaggerated issue. The limitations as they stand fail to address the ever increasing list of jobs available to the player and do not at all compliment an RPG where changing jobs and gear is meant to be encouraged.

---

If people can get tome gear any faster, it absolutely invalidates crafted gear in the long term, especially when upgrading becomes an option. Taking the extreme of having no cap on tomes, you have no reason to even consider crafting at the start of a new raid cycle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reap00

Nothing is forcing you from taking a break if that is how you feel. Stop creating drama over nothing whatsoever.

---

Great. We've simultaneously got arguments that the system needs to be this way to force people to play and that people should take breaks and quit.

Logic at it's finest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Great. We've simultaneously got arguments that the system needs to be this way to force people to play and that people should take breaks and quit.

Logic at it's finest.

---

Logic be damned, SE has cash to rake in~!
Just lay back and enjoy the descent. It's easier than arguing with people who blindly defend SE. It will be extra funny when the problems become so ingrained with the game mechanics that SE will either have to reinvent the wheel like Actiblizz is doing or just throw it into maintenance mode and just focus on the new MMO. lol

rather than increase the limit, I'd rather they have earned tome for the next week.
Like, you can farm 900 tomes this week, but you only get access to 450 more next week after reset.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deveryn

If people can get tome gear any faster, it absolutely invalidates crafted gear in the long term, especially when upgrading becomes an option. Taking the extreme of having no cap on tomes, you have no reason to even consider crafting at the start of a new raid cycle.

---

"Invalidate" implies that crafted gear serves no purpose when that is absolutely untrue. Again, you have the entire beginning of savage in which people race to gear up for week 1 clears. Then even if you do have a faster way to gain resources, you would still likely gear up additional jobs when possible. And I didn't say there should be no tomestone cap immediately. This was my suggestion earlier:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Tomestone Adjustment:
- The new tomestone currency is released during the even-numbered patch with a cap of 450.
- After 4 weeks, the cap is increased to 600
- After 2 more weeks, the cap is increased to 800
- The cap is removed at the launch of the odd-numbered patch.

Savage Book Adjustment:
- Tier 1 Books - Accessories - 4 Books are required for your first purchase. All other purchases require 2 Books.
- Tier 2 Books - Hat/Hands/Feet/Coating - 4 Books are required for your first purchase. All other purchases require 2 Books.
- Tier 3 Books - Pants/Coating/Twine - 6 Books are required for your first purchase. 4 Books are required for your second purchase. All other purchases require 2 Books.
- Tier 4 Books - Weapon/Torso - 6 Books are required for your first purchase. 4 Books are required for your second purchase. All other purchases require 2 Books.

---

You would still have an early bar of entry, it would just decrease over time allowing you to gear up multiple jobs much faster while still asking for an entry amount of effort. Explain to me how this system would invalidate crafted gear.

Let me know when you decide to address the whole situation rather than just focusing on savage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Yep. I definitely spend 8 months happily grinding tomes just to gear alt jobs. By the time I finish 3 jobs (including my main), the tier will be long dead and irrelevant but that doesn't matter. I never get bored of grinding tomes endlessly and certainly haven't ever lost interest after gearing my main and practically dropped the game for the rest of the patch, ignoring that tomes even exist. I love that if I want to test an alt job in Savage for reclears, it's a 2-3 month ordeal to catch them up to my main and that isn't discouraging to me in the slightest.

/s.

---

I agree. I normally enjoy doing the roulette grind to get tomestones for gearing retainers and alt jobs, but I stopped doing it months ago since any gear goes obsolete a couple months later. I don't raid so keeping BiS doesn't mean a thing to me, but being able to accumulate unlimited Poetics over the course of an expansion would be a huge QoL change. It would actually encourage me to do roulettes again in order to have the tomestones needed to upgrade all my, and my retainers', gear before the next expansion drop. On top of that, it'd be nice to have a set of BiS Poetics gear in the armory chest on the off chance I decide to level an alt job that I don't currently have using it, Striking for example.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Illmaeran

I agree. I normally enjoy doing the roulette grind to get tomestones for gearing retainers and alt jobs, but I stopped doing it months ago since any gear goes obsolete a couple months later. I don't raid so keeping BiS doesn't mean a thing to me, but being able to accumulate unlimited Poetics over the course of an expansion would be a huge QoL change. It would actually encourage me to do roulettes again in order to have the tomestones needed to upgrade all my, and my retainers', gear before the next expansion drop. On top of that, it'd be nice to have a set of BiS Poetics gear in the armory chest on the off chance I decide to level an alt job that I don't currently have using it, Striking for example.

---

If you don't raid, then all you need to really keep up with is crafted.

We're not talking about poetics, as those are irrelevant to keeping up with current content. People want the 450 tome (currently causality) cap raised. What they're not understanding is content is balanced around the easily available crafted gear. Raising that cap makes crafted less relevant and with higher value gear being easy to get, content would then be balanced around that and we'd find ourselves in the same exact spot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deveryn

If you don't raid, then all you need to really keep up with is crafted.

We're not talking about poetics, as those are irrelevant to keeping up with current content. People want the 450 tome (currently causality) cap raised. What they're not understanding is content is balanced around the easily available crafted gear. Raising that cap makes crafted less relevant and with higher value gear being easy to get, content would then be balanced around that and we'd find ourselves in the same exact spot.

---

Or you don't raise the cap immediately, but after several weeks have passed, meaning there's still a period of time where crafted gear holds value--early on in even numbered patches when the raid tier is new. You can't exactly go farm up every job in the first week if you still have a cap out of the gate. All it does is allow players to gear up multiple jobs more easily as time goes on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deveryn

If you don't raid, then all you need to really keep up with is crafted.

We're not talking about poetics, as those are irrelevant to keeping up with current content.

---

With five roles to get gear for on my character and eight retainers, that's a lot of unnecessary expense when Poetics will do just as well. I enjoy doing roulettes so why bother with crafted when I can earn it doing activities I enjoy? As far as relevance; once 6.5 rolls around, it'll be BiS for my needs which makes it relevant to me. Even though it's a different tomestone, the concept of time gating still applies as we can only have a limited number of them at a time and 2000 isn't nearly enough to gear out 13 jobs' worth of gear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Illmaeran

With five roles to get gear for on my character and eight retainers, that's a lot of unnecessary expense when Poetics will do just as well. I enjoy doing roulettes so why bother with crafted when I can earn it doing activities I enjoy? As far as relevance; once 6.5 rolls around, it'll be BiS for my needs which makes it relevant to me. Even though it's a different tomestone, the concept of time gating still applies as we can only have a limited number of them at a time and 2000 isn't nearly enough to gear out 13 jobs' worth of gear.

---

That's on you to have 8 retainers, but even they don't need the absolute best gear. Once you reach like 580 or something, your adventurers max out at bringing back 15 of everything.

I don't want 900 caps. I would sooner everything costs 2/3 of its current amount. That would allow for quicker gearing.