Removed from Ex4 by Japanese group. Racist.

would it be better if they said 'stupid human'? they gonna use something he is. and foreigner is propably the first thing standing out

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Going to rewrite this since people seem to this this is just a simple 'attack the japanese' post.

I was doing EX4 in 'DUTY FINDER', something that we do on JP servers when the content is pretty new, and everyone just learns the fight.

After 2-3 wipes leading into transition, i was removed from the group and didn't understand why until i went and translated some of the chat to english, where i was refered to as a "Stupid Foreigner' and told to 'go home'.

This is the first time in about a year i have seen people acting like this, the last time was 6.0 release in EX1/2 duty finder.

Just being clear, this is NOT attacking the JP playerbase, it's just sad to see that some of them still harbor bad feeling towards international players when some of us have played on the servers since 2013.

Any attitude like this is unacceptable from anyone in the game, Duty Finder will put you into groups with ANYONE. Please use party finder and make 'XX Only' groups or remove "E" from your matching settings if you do not want to participate in international parties.

---

I'd recommend you move to OCE or NA servers. Don't expect complaining in an English forum will change how JP playerbase behaves.

I would really like to know what the "go home" comment actually was because I have never heard this said in a JP party, no matter how annoying a person might have been, and a DF party of JP players isn't a hive mind. One person (allegedly) saying something that you translated in an offensive way doesn't automatically persuade everyone else to side with them and kick you.

It is entirely possible that it is a mistranslation or misunderstanding, and they were probably simply telling the uncommunicative bot player (how you would have appeared in their eyes) to "leave" (the party). If someone said "go back to your country" (in JP) it would be clearly offensive but I honestly can't imagine why anybody would say that in-game. You're probably already in your own country. And your own home. It doesn't make sense as an insult here, across the language gap.

Perhaps some screenshots - with names blurred out - would clear it up before this thread devolves into everyone getting indignant over something that probably never even happened?

I've had a similar experience to OP with germans but I wouldn't call germans racists lol
Asshole being assholes is what it is.

The irony they didn't think most people understand german.
This was in 2014-2015 and can't say I encountered anything similar in recent years.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Asari5

would it be better if they said 'stupid human'? they gonna use something he is. and foreigner is propably the first thing standing out

---

Unironically yes because it shifts the focus from someone else being a foreigner to doing something dumb. You can do something about being dumb, making mistakes or whatever you want to call it. You cant do anything about where you were born. If you want to call out someone, atleast have the decency to call them out over something that is within their control.

It's not about where the player was born. The other players cannot possibly know that. In JP in-game conversations people don't say "Serilda is doing something annoying", they say "that Elezen/WHM/person using the EN client in the party list" - whatever singles me out so that everyone can quickly identify the troublemaker, and the last of those is most expediently explained by using "foreigner". In this case the player wasn't communicating properly with the group, so singling them out by their language options made sense. Is it ideal? No, not really, but the spiral of disrespect began when a non-JP speaker used DF as a learning party and refused to read anything in the chat log while wasting seven other players' time. Getting angry over people getting angry is masking the actual problem here. JP players are people and their cultural expectations should be respected; it's not ok to treat them like NPCs and then rage out on the forums when one of them gets annoyed about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Serilda

It's not about where the player was born. The other players cannot possibly know that. In JP in-game conversations people don't say "Serilda is doing something annoying", they say "that Elezen/WHM/person using the EN client in the party list" - whatever singles me out so that everyone can quickly identify the troublemaker, and the last of those is most expediently explained by using "foreigner". In this case the player wasn't communicating properly with the group, so singling them out by their language options made sense. Is it ideal? No, not really, but the spiral of disrespect began when a non-JP speaker used DF as a learning party and refused to read anything in the chat log while wasting seven other players' time. Getting angry over people getting angry is masking the actual problem here. JP players are people and their cultural expectations should be respected; it's not ok to treat them like NPCs and then rage out on the forums when one of them gets annoyed about it.

---

I will keep this in mind whenever I see someone not speak english in a DF group in EU. Oh wait, we're not only english speakers here, just like JP datacenters arent only for people who speak japanese. Xenophobic expectations are not worthy of respect.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

if being called a stupid foreigner and told to 'go home' isn't racism then what is it?

Defend it all you want, there are just bad eggs in every society.

---

Since this upset you quite a bit, you took a screenshot right?

I have played with Japanese players of FF11 since 2002, and then here in 2010, and Tonberry 2013 to now, and have to say that just seems a bit overboard, how did you translate what was said?

Need to see both sides of the Story, what was actually said before judgement can be made.

Post the chat log with names redacted.

Lots of weebs here defending bad behaviour. Nothing ever changes :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grinkdaboy

you can dress it up however you'd like but bigotry is still bigotry lol

---

I'm not dressing anything up, it's the reality. Let's not act like they're the only country in the world that assumes the worst of another. The United States are guilty of it as well, or are we just going to forget that some here were attacking people on the street just for being Asian/associating them with being the cause of Covid not too long ago? (Might still be but I avoid watching the news on a regular basis cause it makes me stressed out)

Can't really blame em for having a bad view on westerners at that rate/not wanting to be associated with us. Also gotta remember they got Trump related news for a while and none of that helped us anywhere in the world ngl.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saraide

Unironically yes because it shifts the focus from someone else being a foreigner to doing something dumb. You can do something about being dumb, making mistakes or whatever you want to call it. You cant do anything about where you were born. If you want to call out someone, atleast have the decency to call them out over something that is within their control.

---

Remember, you can be ethnically Japanese but not a native, and you're still a foreigner. You will never be Japanese unless you are ethnically Japanese AND were born there to them. It's xenophobia.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deveryn

Stop. You're embarrassing yourself even further.

---

I leave the forums for a few days and come back to see people defending legit racism. Nice

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lustre

I leave the forums for a few days and come back to see people defending legit racism. Nice

---

Let me know where someone is being attacked over their race rather than the country they live in. One is racism, the other is xenophobia.

All this talk of what's xenophobia and what's racism feels like an incredibly pointless distinction. If this happened on an EU/NA world GM's would be enforcing ToS. I somehow find it hard to believe, if op is to be believed, that those arent comments going against ToS, considering you can get sent to jail for "enforcing playstyle" and telling a tank to hurry up

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LianaThorne

Let me know where someone is being attacked over their race rather than where they're from.

---

I guess it's ok then right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lustre

I guess it's ok then right?

---

It's not okay, there's just a difference and it's important to keep the difference so that the word "racism" doesn't just get thrown around to mean something that it doesn't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wolwosh

Lots of weebs here defending bad behaviour. Nothing ever changes :p

---

Yeah, it's bewildering. Calling someone a 'stupid foreigner' is like textbook racism.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LianaThorne

It's not okay, there's just a difference and it's important to keep the difference so that the word "racism" doesn't just get thrown around to mean something that it doesn't.

---

I get what you're saying but I dont believe this distinction would even attempt to be made if these comments had come out of the western playerbase. Granted, I'm speaking as if I actually believe OP and I'm not sure I do, but still

Textbook xenophobia.

I'm white as a lily and can still call a white German guy a stupid foreigner and it's not racist, it's xenophobic.

If you keep diluting the word "racist" it's not going to mean anything nor hold weight anymore.

Jesus.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Imora

Textbook xenophobia.

I'm white as a lily and can still call a white German guy a stupid foreigner and it's not racist, it's xenophobic.

If you keep diluting the word "racist" it's not going to mean anything nor hold weight anymore.

Jesus.

---

It's very easy to mean the same thing with both terms, the difference is rarely actually relevant. This is because racism is inherently a contradictory concept, only designed to divide people who would otherwise have no problem interacting with each other. You are just arguing semantics.

Depending on who you ask at what point of history, germans werent considered white.

we're not discussing if its bad or not... but about how bad it is

The reason that it's easier to report in English is that we actually have no evidence that the player ever even said what the poster interpreted them to have said. I strongly doubt they said "stupid foreigner" and "go home" in English; context is important, and it sounds as though the poster interpreted the words in translation in the harshest possible light (which obviously makes them sound like the victim even though they were demonstrably griefing the other players).

I do not think it's acceptable to say those things to a foreigner in English, and if they were actually said then I don't think "go home" is acceptable in Japanese either, and that kind of bullying would be reportable in JP too, but there was obvious provocation here and reacting with even more xenophobia (ignoring the differences between cultures/language structure in favor of American interpretations) isn't the answer. If they just said "jeez, it's been three wipes and you're not listening, silly EN-only person, please leave and make a learning party" then it hits very differently to the version of events we're getting.

Screenshots, please.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saraide

It's very easy to mean the same thing with both terms, the difference is rarely actually relevant. This is because racism is inherently a contradictory concept, only designed to divide people who would otherwise have no problem interacting with each other. You are just arguing semantics.

Depending on who you ask at what point of history, germans werent considered white.

---

Neither were Irish. In America, that is.

I'm Swedish, and we don't like foreigners much here, either. Fact: not having a Swedish sounding name automatically makes it harder to get a job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wolwosh

Lots of weebs here defending bad behaviour. Nothing ever changes :p

---

so is taking a one sided testimony as the absolute truth. Nothing ever changes.
Can't say it happened or didn't happen. Since that is all we have

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lustre

I leave the forums for a few days and come back to see people defending legit racism. Nice

---

You know you could've said that without quoting me, but I really have to ask now who the hell do you think you are throwing around an accusation like that? You don't know me one bit aside from what opinions on the game you may have seen. Don't you dare come in here and start accusing me of being racist. I live in America. I know what racism is. Racism is my Asian American friends continuing to be harassed and physically / verbally attacked over allegations about the Chinese bringing covid over. Whatever this player is experienced is absolutely not the same, but very much a product of that western thinking.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saraide

It's very easy to mean the same thing with both terms, the difference is rarely actually relevant. This is because racism is inherently a contradictory concept, only designed to divide people who would otherwise have no problem interacting with each other. You are just arguing semantics.

Depending on who you ask at what point of history, germans werent considered white.

---

It's not the same thing though. One is based strictly on race (i.e. skin color, physical features, cultural stereotypes) while the other has nothing to do with race and is just an overall negative bias towards a country. There is a defining line and it's important to keep it so terms like these are used in proper context and not just as a defense mechanism.

Again, both are not okay but it is important to keep the distinction and educate others on the differences.

Some people act like this doesnt happen in EU/NA servers.
You get removed by PF groups when underperforming or vote kicked when you're the reason for an entire wipe circus. Doesnt matter if some of those JP players got mad or started insulting. It happens in any language.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LianaThorne

It's not the same thing though. One is based strictly on race (i.e. skin color, physical features, cultural stereotypes) while the other has nothing to do with race and is just an overall negative bias towards a country. There is a defining line and it's important to keep it so terms like these are used in proper context and not just as a defense mechanism.

Again, both are not okay but it is important to keep the distinction and educate others on the differences.

---

Racism is always based in xenophobia. The concept of different races has only been created to make people xenophobic. It's the same mindset. That's why it's rarely relevant to make this distinction.

wow so much anger and hate when i party i don't say anything just do my job as best i can and at end lot commend the healer or tank or dps and leave.

As a Japanese player, I can almost guarantee they didn't say what the OP is stating, as such things just aren't said in public chat using those words. We can't know what they really said until we see the actual chat. I mean, have you seen how Google translate butchers or totally misrepresents some languages? DF is always, always used when you know the fight and unless it explicitly says 'practice', you're expected to know the fight. If OP was kicked and there was no 'practice' listed (is that even possible in DF?), then they were in the wrong joining DF without knowing the fight or having practiced in PF like normal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

I was doing EX4 in 'DUTY FINDER', something that we do on JP servers when the content is pretty new, and everyone just learns the fight.

---

Dixie,

On Atomos we use Party Finder, not Duty Finder, to learn fights privately before going into the public Duty Finder. Perhaps that was your mistake?

Also, you said you can read Japanese in a later post but you had to translate what you're referring to in this post. It's no wonder they'd be pissed at you; they probably had J as the only language selected, you (like nearly every other EN player on Elemental) likely had J and E selected. You went into a public party, by your own admission aren't literate enough to fully understand everything they're saying in real time, and the party wiped a couple of times. I'm pretty sure you weren't following what they were saying to do so they kicked you. That's a fair thing. If someone not fluent in English joined one of my parties where I had only E selected, we wiped, talked about strategies yet the non-EN player didn't respond or change how they did things and we wiped again, I'd be inclined to kick them too.

I've never encountered this before in my eight and a half years playing on Atomos, but then again, I don't go into anything except Roulettes with J, D, or F selected, only E. It's a matter of politeness and making sure I'm in a group with people who I can communicate with.





On the topic of "xenophobia" and Japanese in this game. Even though they study English from a young age in school there, they really only do reading, writing, and some basic speaking. Their conceptual knowledge of the language coming out of high school is good if they're reading a book at their own pace. 90+% of them aren't fluent enough to be able to read, let alone type, English at Game Speed. For all intents and purposes the great majority of Japanese are illiterate in English given the speed of communication and typing in the game. It only stands to reason that they'd want to play with other JP-fluent people so they can communicate. Selecting J and E on JP DCs helps the EN players get parties, yes, but it also runs the risk of being put into parties that are listed as J only.

It's not xenophobia or racism, it's simply a matter of wanting to be able to communicate with the other players in your party; ESPECIALLY when learning fights, as DixieBell stated she was doing.


To the racism thing. Yes, some individual Japanese, and certain aspects of their culture, are racist. I've lived there and encountered it myself. It just happens to be a very soft and polite thing and not the violent and brazen stuff we see in the West. That being said, I've encountered more racism here in the US than I ever did in Japan, and I'm an educated white guy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Illmaeran

To the racism thing. Yes, some individual Japanese, and certain aspects of their culture, are racist. I've lived there and encountered it myself. It just happens to be a very soft and polite thing and not the violent and brazen stuff we see in the West. That being said, I've encountered more racism here in the US than I ever did in Japan, and I'm an educated white guy.

---

Guess what, every nation is racist/sexist/somethingist to a group of people. You can either take it in stride or report if you need to karen it up but this feels like... you know, I really can't make an example because someone will get upset over any example I bring up regarding this. Funny how that works, lol! ;^D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WhiteWitch

honestly, they were probably just mad about wiping. it's sweaty content. i don't really think they would say that to you in person. if they did you could just beef physically lmao

---

So we respond with violence if we don't like what the other party has to say?
The 12 bless this mess, lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deveryn

That's not racist, they're just very isolated. Let's not act like English speaking folks haven't been the least bit toxic or racist.

---

to translate what this persons' saying:

"that's not racist, that's xenophobic" and "other people can be racist/xenophobic, so it should be accepted for that particular group to do the same"

some of you are something else. LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WhiteWitch

like every japanese anime ever doesn't have this plot? xd

---

I WISH the west was like every japanese anime ever and not just a 10 second snuff film, lmao.

If life was an anime I would be that one lazy dude sleeping all day that nobody wants to scrap with.

Was it like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-fJCr2ZGdw

People don't realize all Asian societies (Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese, ect) can be extremely racist... they are just "nice" about it so you don't realize it until it sinks in, or if you do realize it, can't say anything about it because they were being "nice", and saying something would make it seem like you are the asshole.

How I know: I'm half Vietnamese, half white and have been subjected to this for looking more 'white' than 'Asian'. But because I have "Asian eyes" and a Vietnamese last name, I've been called "ching chong eyes" or some other terms.

So yeah, any and all types of people can be racist to any and all types of other people, including racist to white people, shocking, I know... people just like to defend PoC more for their racist attitudes because "they are so oppressed, we should give them slack" or don't want to seem racist themselves for targeting someone PoC...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VictorSpoils

Was it like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-fJCr2ZGdw

---

FFXI was special when it came to that. Funny how the language barrier was not an issue when LFG as a brd or RDM (75 cap).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Imora

Xenophobia.

They're not the same thing.

---

Racism is hating someone because they are a member of a particular race or ethnic group.

Xenophobia is hating someone because they are not a member of your own tribe or nationality.

So, yes, they are not the same thing. But... When the end result, for the person targeted, is
exactly the same, it's a difference that makes no difference.