There has not been a single major patch without a critical issue since Endwalker.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adamantini

I've never been so bored in an MMORPG patch as 6.1.

"Oh, but you don't want the game to force you to play... blah blah blah"

Yes, I don't want the game to force me to play, I don't want to have to farm something endlessly. But damn it, is it hard to have interesting content? Something that is not necessary, but that I can distract myself? Or is that asking too much of Square Memex?

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Comments like these are why the forums don't get enough attention from the devs and why they don't take it as seriously as they should.
I hope you're aware and understand this every time you complain about them not listening to issues being brought up.
They've even said it themselves multiple times in live letters.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Comments like these are why the forums don't get enough attention from the devs and why they don't take it as seriously as they should.
I hope you're aware and understand this every time you complain about them not listening to issues being brought up.
They've even said it themselves multiple times in live letters.

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"Is square out of touch? No, it's the players who are wrong."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Denji

"Is square out of touch? No, it's the players who are wrong."

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I know of game developers who think just like that. They work for Blizzard. :rolleyes: This was also how a lot of their customers thought about their precious WoW too before things went south.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Comments like these are why the forums don't get enough attention from the devs and why they don't take it as seriously as they should.
I hope you're aware and understand this every time you complain about them not listening to issues being brought up.
They've even said it themselves multiple times in live letters.

---

How much is the company paying you to defend it like a baby? When you go to a restaurant and the food doesn't come the way you ordered, do you also not complain, because if you complain the food will never get better?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mosha

it's a design limitation, not a bug.

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It was a bug. They explicitly stated there was a bug involved.
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...57f7b5b78b9bb3

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adamantini

How much is the company paying you to defend it like a baby? When you go to a restaurant and the food doesn't come the way you ordered, do you also not complain, because if you complain the food will never get better?

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It's more like you're not complaining about the food and complain about the waiter not pretty enough instead? I'd ignore your complain and kindly ask you to try other restaurant with hotter girls/guys.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dionysius

Well what kind of complain are you talking about? The waiter not pretty enough? or the actual food? I'd ignore your complain and kindly ask you to try other restaurant with hotter girls.

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ahuahuahuuhahua friend, you only do this if your restaurant is big enough for you to snub customer. Careful, huh? The last company that acted like this is now in a storm, or rather, in a blizzard

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Denji

"Is square out of touch? No, it's the players who are wrong."

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There's a difference between well written critique and a bunch of vague words like "interesting content". Define interesting. Define what you want to see. Don't just be vague, go in depth. You tell me interesting, and I have to assume what is interesting, but what is interesting to me may not be interesting to you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adamantini

ahuahuahuuhahua friend, you only do this if your restaurant is big enough for you to snub customer. Careful, huh? The last company that acted like this is now in a storm, or rather, in a blizzard

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Lol people keeping bringing up Blizz this Blizz so much for doom posting. There is only 1 Bobby in this world. Other companies will be fine....

Gosh I flippin this hate this community's vitriolic, disingenuous complaining. I absolutely expected server traffic to hit when data center travel was implemented. Theres nothing you can do to prevent that given how big the communities are in FFXIV. Yeah, keep crying and acting like literal man children over issues that cant be easily fixed with a flip of a wand.

"Well why dont they just add more serv-" -No amount of servers going to stop people trying to get into their wanted specific servers that want to hang out with a specific group of people.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

There's a difference between well written critique and a bunch of vague words like "interesting content". Define interesting. Define what you want to see. Don't just be vague, go in depth. You tell me interesting, and I have to assume what is interesting, but what is interesting to me may not be interesting to you.

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Considering how you've written the 2nd half of your post you should take your own advice and proofread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adamantini

it would be great to have at least 1 piece of content that everyone can enjoy doing.

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but thats the thing, with a playerbase as diverse as for an mmo its literally impossible to find something everyone enjoys doing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dionysius

Lol people keeping bringing up Blizz this Blizz so much for doom posting. There is only 1 Bobby in this world. Other companies will be fine....

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Yes, out of all the companies I've played with, Blizzard was by far the one that snubbed their customers the most "Didn't like it? Play another MMORPG".

If a tangible example isn't enough for you, then argue against it. Or tell me the amount that Square MEMEX is paying you to defend it. I would love to receive to say "it's your fault, players, that blah blah blah"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Akiudo

but thats the thing, with a playerbase as diverse as for an mmo its literally impossible to find something everyone enjoys doing.

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I gave several examples of things SE could implement that would distract a lot of the audience until 6.25

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Comments like these are why the forums don't get enough attention from the devs and why they don't take it as seriously as they should.
I hope you're aware and understand this every time you complain about them not listening to issues being brought up.
They've even said it themselves multiple times in live letters.

---

This place is pretty tame compared to the absolutely vile comments found on Reddit or Twitter. In reality, this place is attacked as 'hostile' on the basis that it's the only place a lot of people can say their piece without being actively censored by other players.

It isn't a perfect place, though it's not the 'anything goes' wasteland some like to try and frame it as. To say nothing of the fact that many posters have been politely requesting more engagement from the moderation team and community representatives for years only to receive radio silence in response.

As seen here:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...epresentatives

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Denji

Considering how you've written the 2nd half of your post you should take your own advice and proofread.

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So show me where Adamantini went into detail on what they want that is interesting. Because they did not give examples, Kolsykol got on their case about the comments, then you got on their case for theirs. I'm pointing out that they're correct in that Adamantini's comment was rather pointless, and told us nothing about what they actually wanted that was interesting. Like JFC, I know you go in depth from the Hrothgar thread, all I'm asking is that Adamantini do the damned same and point out what exactly they want from the game. Not vague comments, but actual things. Like idk, "I'd like a more in depth questline with lore, and dungeons that have different paths you can go down that change what you fight." That is all I ask.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adamantini

Yes, out of all the companies I've played with, Blizzard was by far the one that snubbed their customers the most "Didn't like it? Play another MMORPG".

If a tangible example isn't enough for you, then argue against it. Or tell me the amount that Square MEMEX is paying you to defend it. I would love to receive to say "it's your fault, players, that blah blah blah"

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"Didn't like it? Play another MMORPG" this mindset is what everyone should have in their mind, it's a great advice that I recommended you take it. There is Lost Ark with dailies and 0.1% upgrade chance for your gears. You will enjoy the game for years and years never running out of content. Why play FFXIV that's not for you? The game is f2p too! lmao

This is just a shot in the dark, but all of this coincides with Final Fantasy XVI's development...

I can't wait for that game to be done, because as much as I love the game and Creative Business Unit III, I can't help but feel they're spread a bit too thin because of XVI.
That's just speculation on my part though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

So show me where Adamantini went into detail on what they want that is interesting.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adamantini

I think you misunderstood me here: I said I liked CC, but I got sick of doing it so much / the imbalances helped with that.

A new, persistent and distracting content until the new """"big"""" patch is enough. Some examples?

WoW had pet combat. Stupidly casual content, where I was distracted for months.

Something involving FFXIV?

Throw some shit for the bluemage to do alone. A deep dungeon, revives this class they made with some content which gives reason for this class to exist. Here's a huge tip. I'm the retard who went to make carnival titles, like "perfect blue".

Moogle Troove. Since we don't have anything better to do, it gives me an event where I can farm some things in the game.

Make achievements more interesting to farm. I collect any kind of crap in games, unless it asks me to do 10,000x the same thing.

Ishgard restoration was excellent, it entertained me for a whole year. More content like this would be great

---

Is here. I'll be happy to discuss it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

This is just a shot in the dark, but all of this coincides with Final Fantasy XVI's development...

I can't wait for that game to be done, because as much as I love the game and the devs, I can't help but feel they're spread a bit too thin because of XVI.
That's just speculation on my part though.

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I too feel that there's a bit of a connection. The game tends to suffer a bit more than usual when SE has a major product in their pipeline. It is just worse this time around because they've got devs from FF XIV working on FF 16.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dionysius

"Didn't like it? Play another MMORPG" this mindset is what everyone should have in their mind, it's a great advice that I recommended you take it. There is Lost Ark with dailies and 0.1% upgrade chance for your gears. You will enjoy the game for years and years never running out of content. Why play FFXIV that's not for you? The game is f2p too! lmao

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I can be a conformist, like you, or I can believe that the company is capable of doing more, it just doesn't because most are conformists

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

well written critique

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This is something that the average consumer would not be able to meaningfully provide, especially to the level that other consumers, as evidenced on these forums, demand. Typically a producer/provider/manufacturer/company/group does not require a thesis on how to improve their product before they consider customer feedback, because they know that's unrealistic for them to expect from every consumer and it would be unrealistic for them to be expected to digest such feedback.
Instead, most just expect their consumers to either like or dislike their product(s) to varying degrees, and hope for small, but specific tidbits as to what needs to be improved to garner additional interest and retention. For example, "PVP is bad" or "The Endsinger tastes like feet." The feedback may not be very specific, or even make sense, but they have key components listed which can be reviewed for issues.

That being said, laundry-lists of grievances are more specific and nuanced than those examples, and there are quite a few posts that do come with explanations and suggestions for improvements, but I guess those just don't count because of the "other consumers" I mentioned earlier.
Oh well, I guess.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adamantini

Is here. I'll be happy to discuss it

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Now THAT is info I can work with.

I think Verminion was their attempt at pet combat, but it's woefully lacking IMO. RTS isn't everybody's cup of tea (it certainly isn't mine), and I wouldn't mind if it was more "turn based" in a sense, like Triple Triad. Could be more than a little interesting with pauses and tactical thinking instead of the constant thinking on the go thing.

BLU could definitely use more solo content, or even just dungeons and things only for them. I'm still a fan of the idea of opening up Eureka for BLU to do, since it has all the abilities and spells to where it wouldn't need the elemental wheel, it'd be supplying its own spells. Add in unique spells only found in Eureka, a variant of Baldesian Arsenal just for a group of 4-8 BLU, and we'd live our lives in that place.

Moogle Trove I feel should be a permanent thing, with its own unique rewards, and the "temporary prizes" things that are added just for the event. You know, like the equivalent of the "Make It Rain" campaign they have for the Gold Saucer. Where you can get more of the tomes for trading in, and a unique list just for that. Else you have this other list of things you can get with moogle tomes.

Achievement wise they could probably do with more unique things. Such as clearing Unreal as every job once in a category. Or getting various rare items from multiple different types of content that you trade into a merchant for it (Master of Finding).

Oh man I loved Ishgard Restoration. Can we get one for Ala Mhigo, or especially Garlemald? I'd really like to get a region where you help them back onto their feet, complete with a unique area to collect materials at, and maybe one for those dropped by Terminus, for those who don't like to craft/gather.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hunkygladiator

This has never happened at this alarming frequency in HW, SB, and even ShB.

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Spoiler alert; none of those expansions were hit by player counts as high as EW has, or introduced as many massive changing systems like EW's lottery or DC travel.

Remember when World Visit was first implemented in SHB and people were stranded for a while due to the system breaking down under congestion? or when they first implemented Cross-World PF around HW-SB and the DF queue randomly broke down 2-3 times wile they ironed out kinks? Massive game changing systems will almost always have bugs or unexpected results on the live versions. You can do all the stress testing you want in the dev environment, but the pure anarchy and chaos that is free will of people can create scenarios you never expected.

Like every other major implementation of a massive system change throughout this entire game's lifespan, it's gonna be hiccupy. History has given empirical data to expect it to be rough initially.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

This is just a shot in the dark, but all of this coincides with Final Fantasy XVI's development...

I can't wait for that game to be done, because as much as I love the game and Creative Business Unit III, I can't help but feel they're spread a bit too thin because of XVI.
That's just speculation on my part though.

---

If you shoot enough bullets in the dark, you're bound to hit something.

One really has little to do with the other, outside of being handled by the same people. Things happen. DC travel is a brand new feature and it has absolutely nothing to do with one person or another having been moved over to XVI.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

...

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We have many places that we could rebuild. Foundation is a city that is in ruins, imagine what we could do just there, for example.
Now with Garlemald destroyed, we can build a city for the homeless Garleans.

I would love for bluemage to be lv 90, and to be able to make fresh content. Imagine a bluemage-only party, trying to kill the endsinger. Or maybe he had some content that he could progress on on his own, something fun.

And the chocobo? It's been abandoned for so long... What if they remake the chocobo, giving him some minigames to make him learn new skills. Even if it's a skill that doesn't change anything, like dancing, counting, singing... We would have an electronic pet minigame.


EDIT: I just thought of something else: Imagine a PvP arena just for Bluemages...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

EW queue wasn't a bug. They just made improvements and optimizations to something that had worked for years. A development server was repurposed as a login server to increase the amount of processing power.

DC travel is not part of a major patch. It's 6.18 and it's just congestion from people using it a lot.

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No there was a bug. They claimed it had been there since 1.0

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

If you shoot enough bullets in the dark, you're bound to hit something.

One really has little to do with the other, outside of being handled by the same people. Things happen. DC travel is a brand new feature and it has absolutely nothing to do with one person or another having been moved over to XVI.

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On the contrary, I think it's inevitable that when members of an already team are tasked with working on a second title then things are going to get rather strained. It wasn't until recently that it was officially acknowledged in a Live Letter that Koji Fox had moved over to work on FFXVI as of Shadowbringers and the last two expansions have had some pretty jarring inconsistencies with the English localisation.

Furthermore, there's also revelations such as this in relation to the technical side of the company:

“In regard to profitable operations, hiring server engineers and other staff to work exclusively on FFXI around-the-clock the whole year round would increase its expenses,” Yoshida says. “So in Creative Business Unit III, engineering fees are expensed under FFXIV, while the FFXI team can submit proposals for tasks that require engineers. Once a proposal has been reviewed and approved, we have the programmers estimate the costs and then have a discussion with them. If we asked them to focus on FFXI for three months, for example, then FFXI would only incur costs for those three months. This allows us to keep costs down and is one of the perks of overseeing two MMORPGs in our division.”

https://www.denofgeek.com/games/fina...istory-profit/

It's pretty common for people to try and cut costs only to end up having to do more work as a consequence because by cutting costs the usual checks and balances aren't there. Or the people in charge of the task in question are overworked and pulled in too many different directions at once.

I love how people are acting like EW is the only expansion that has patch releases where something doesnt go exactly right. Enjoy seeing people just cherry pick and ignore the game's past patch launches as if they were exactly buttery smooth. Best community!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It wasn't until recently that it was officially acknowledged in a Live Letter that Koji Fox had moved over to work on FFXVI as of Shadowbringers and the last two expansions have had some pretty jarring inconsistencies with the English localisation..

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I bet no one realized about the inconsistency at all before the Koji announcement. The moment they realized it's not Koji, their paradigm got shifted and suddenly SHB localization have a lot of issue.

Lmao this is so childish.
This is the kind of disingenuous complain I can't stand.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adamantini

We have many places that we could rebuild. Foundation is a city that is in ruins, imagine what we could do just there, for example.
Now with Garlemald destroyed, we can build a city for the homeless Garleans.

I would love for bluemage to be lv 90, and to be able to make fresh content. Imagine a bluemage-only party, trying to kill the endsinger. Or maybe he had some content that he could progress on on his own, something fun.

And the chocobo? It's been abandoned for so long... What if they remake the chocobo, giving him some minigames to make him learn new skills. Even if it's a skill that doesn't change anything, like dancing, counting, singing... We would have an electronic pet minigame.

---

Garlemald, Ala Mhigo, hell, Bozja if they wanted to go the extra mile (I'd prefer Garlemald though).

BLU definitely needs its level cap increased already, preferably with them allowing BLU into the Ultimates. The insanity of being able to do UCOB or UWU alone would keep us busy for quite a while, especially if the reward was unique outfits.

Yessss I'd love for them to do more with the Companion system, it has been there for so long without any massive changes. They could really go for updating the system, adding more to the chocobo, maybe even giving us the Chocobo Hot and Cold minigame from FF9.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dionysius

I bet no one realized about the inconsistency at all before the Koji announcement. The moment they realized it's not Koji, their paradigm got shifted and suddenly SHB localization have a lot of issue.

Lmao this is so childish.
This is the kind of disingenuous complain I can't stand.

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I don't think it's childish at all. The game actively advertises its story as the main focus - something its own player base is quick to reinforce at every possible turn. Furthermore, you realise a lot of us are European, right? That many of our friends are French and German so that discussing the game's story is difficult when the game is putting a completely different spin on something that isn't the case elsewhere.

Koji had a hand in situations such as the Haurchefant predicament though I wouldn't consider toning down an outright sex pest character to be as jarring as rewriting existing established story beats in order to downplay and excuse acts of genocide.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adamantini

I gave several examples of things SE could implement that would distract a lot of the audience until 6.25

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a lot =/= everyone, (which is what you wished for, content for everyone). i still play CC (only a few matches a week but heck, an hour a week still means more "excitement for my money" than pretty much everything else i could buy for 13 euros.) you mentioned how great pet battles were in wow okay, i and many others couldn't have cared less for them back than. its great that was something for you, but again this is not for everyone. for me ? pet battles in wow allways sucked for me, never felt any fun doing them. now in final i do treasure maps twice a week, i also still level classes and grind for money just because i like having spare gil, and before mahjsoul took off in the west i actually used ffxiv to play mahjong cause it was pretty much the easiest way to get some form of english speaking mahjong client.

i get it, the one big feature of 6.1 fell short for you, for understandable reasons at that and that sucks, but "wow pet battles" aren't superior to cc or doing treasure maps twice a week just because you in particular like them more. CC did distract a lot of the audience for a good while, and so do other things. you (and with you i mean the whole "the sky is falling" crew) need to stop acting like the game offers nothing to do because you find nothing that keeps you engaged. maybe the game offers nothing for you, and if thats so than that sucks, but this isn't a zero sum game. for every feature you personally would like more compared to things we actually got someone else would prefer what we got now instead of "wow pet battles".

i mean no offense to you btw even if the thing about the sky falling may sound like that, i get wanting something to do, i get having attachment to a product and wanting it to do better and i get being unhappy with the way things are. BUT and everyone needs to admit to themselves this one simple fact, if square actually gave you one of those things that you think would help solve the issues you have than something else would need to be put on the backburner in exchange, and that will also piss off people, just another group of people in that case.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Yessss I'd love for them to do more with the Companion system, it has been there for so long without any massive changes. They could really go for updating the system, adding more to the chocobo, maybe even giving us the Chocobo Hot and Cold minigame from FF9.

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That's what I'm talking about! How good it is to find people who know how to discuss in this forum.

I recently resubbed to FFXI due to the content drought. Savage and Ultimate do nothing for me, and the MSQ can be done in a single day. PvP was okay while it lasted, but there's little incentive to do it after reaching Crystal and completing your Series (Battle pass).

Too bad most of the stuff I'm interested in has been relegated to just questing (Relics obtained through Hildibrand), or they are going to arrive at 6.25 at some point in September-October.

I used to treat the relics as my version of "endgame", in lieu of not doing Savage or Ultimates, but even that has lost its staying power. Now I just log in to do my beast tribes, and that's it. Sometimes I delve in Bozja to get the last remaining mettle buffs I need.

I understand people's desire to defend the game. I get it. I'm a huge fan of this game too and consider it my main MMO. I've just had less and less things to look forward to over time. Glad the current system is working out for some people though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Akiudo

...

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It doesn't necessarily have to be a pet battle. I usually complain and give examples of where SE can improve. CC is nice, but it gets sick really fast. I'm giving options for things that could take our time without being necessary to get Gear.

The gold saucer events, for example. They amused me a lot at first, making me forget about the main quests, just to stick around. The problem is that they stopped in time with the content, they even said that they would renew the GS, but so far nothing has come. This would be another tip on how to entertain people for long periods.

You have to imagine your audience, think of something that most people would get distracted from, and release something in this aspect, something that doesn't get sick quickly, so that people forget that the next patch is 5 months away.


EDIT: I reached my daily post limit, but I couldn't leave it open and look like I just disappeared

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Akiudo

...

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This I can't stop saying, I'm sorry. Even those who defend SE with claws say that "you are crying for nothing, Patch X.X always lacks content due to X". What I want to say in the end is: We don't have content that holds our attention for LONG periods. Just content that will entertain us for 1-2 weeks and otherwise, as SE supporters would say, "Do something else, play another game, go step on the grass outside".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hunkygladiator

Housing glitch. EW queue bugs (which had to be resolved by a Redditor and not their own engineers). And now... DC visit shenanigans.

This has never happened at this alarming frequency in HW, SB, and even ShB.

What is going on?

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Welcome to the world of ALL mmo's

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adamantini

It doesn't necessarily have to be a pet battle. I usually complain and give examples of where SE can improve. CC is nice, but it gets sick really fast. I'm giving options for things that could take our time without being necessary to get Gear.

The gold saucer events, for example. They amused me a lot at first, making me forget about the main quests, just to stick around. The problem is that they stopped in time with the content, they even said that they would renew the GS, but so far nothing has come. This would be another tip on how to entertain people for long periods.

You have to imagine your audience, think of something that most people would get distracted from, and release something in this aspect, something that doesn't get sick quickly, so that people forget that the next patch is 5 months away.

---

yes but again, these are things "you" would want, i don't mean this in an offensive way, i truly don't, but you are in no way an authority on what would entertain a majority of costumers for a long amount of time and neither am i or really anyone else in this threads for that matter, that is the big problem i have with that logic.

say updated blue mage content, you said you would love that, and that is great and if it was up to me than you and everyone else that wants that should be free to get it. still though, updating blue now would mean something else would come later, thats just a fact and you can't simply claim that that would make more people happy than datacenter travel or CC even if you personally allready stopped doing it. Square did offer at the least 2 very big things in the last 3 months and there is more to come in the next months.

and to be clear here, i'm totally in favor of people, you included stating things they would prefer, but what grinds my gear is acting like all these other things don't count because they didn't manage to keep your personal interest. not being happy is perfectly fine, if sad. Stating things one would prefer is even better, i love that you actually named things you would like to have, i'm serious. but for the love of god, and that goes for half this thread at least. stop claiming square offers nothing to the playerbase and just doesn't care because they didn't manage to produce something that keeps you in particular entertained, thats not how this works and the forum threads turn into echo chambers way to fast to get any meaningfull insight on what any form of majority wants just by looking at threads complaining that everything sucks.

edit:
to give my post limit some spares i'm just gonna reply in kind, but going into your edit yes, totally. what i mostly meant was that for a lot of people things like that do exist (for example treasure maps for me are a great thing that never really loses its value completly)
but i totally understand that people want something new from time to time or aren't happy about the things i am. also i want to apologize if i came off as antagonistic, i know i allready said i meant no offense but i know my tone was agitated, it just gets tiresome sometimes because people on both side of the fence tend to take things way to personally.

at the end of the day i actually agree with you that more "long term content" would be a great thing, i just have an honest fear that the only "long term content" that would be enough for some people is basically an endless gear grind, and i assume we have both seen how that ends. i'm totally in favor of more "long term fun stuff" and in that regard i do hope that variant/criterion dungeons aswell as island sanctuaries manage to deliver cause no matter what, thats what we get next.

that aside ? gimme more gold saucer, and keep updating deep dungeons instead of just giving us a new one every 3 or so years !

Its definately a trend we're seeing yes, but we haven't hit the tipping point just yet, corporate apologists will still defend the game until something egregious happens.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Denji

"Is square out of touch? No, it's the players who are wrong."

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Way to go completely missing the point, same with everyone liking your comment.
The devs have said multiple times before ( including Yoshi-P himself and Toshio ) that the forums are toxic as hell and needlessly stressful and that they just stop reading comments because of this crap.
If you lot care about actual change then you'd find it within yourselves to drop the needless antagonism towards them for five minutes.
All that you're doing is make the devs ignore and not read threads and your own comments.

It's completely counter-productive and causes actual harm to the game, then the same people sit around whining about how they're not listening.
If you want to give feedback then give feedback without pointless attacks attached to every single comment.

Far too many people treat '' feedback and criticism '' on this forum as just blatant vitriol and venting, and it's actually holding the game back and making it more difficult to communicate with the devs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

This is something that the average consumer would not be able to meaningfully provide, especially to the level that other consumers, as evidenced on these forums, demand. Typically a producer/provider/manufacturer/company/group does not require a thesis on how to improve their product before they consider customer feedback, because they know that's unrealistic for them to expect from every consumer and it would be unrealistic for them to be expected to digest such feedback.
Instead, most just expect their consumers to either like or dislike their product(s) to varying degrees, and hope for small, but specific tidbits as to what needs to be improved to garner additional interest and retention. For example, "PVP is bad" or "The Endsinger tastes like feet." The feedback may not be very specific, or even make sense, but they have key components listed which can be reviewed for issues.

That being said, laundry-lists of grievances are more specific and nuanced than those examples, and there are quite a few posts that do come with explanations and suggestions for improvements, but I guess those just don't count because of the "other consumers" I mentioned earlier.
Oh well, I guess.

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Well said. I do get the impression a lot of posters expressing views like that have never seen how larger businesses process feedback. Granted, this applies to smaller ones to some degree too, but there is no such luxury as expecting that it will be well written or structured, and it is the business's job to analyse it, understand it and then seek out further insight from it using the tools at its disposal, which in SE's case, are considerable. Just sticking their hands up in the air because some criticism is not well worded is not good enough - they're happy to solicit feedback at the end of a subscription, which I can only imagine is going to be more terse and minimal than what they'll find on this forum for the most part. They provide this venue to solicit feedback, it is incumbent upon them to make sure it is put to good use for that end.