Which part of summoner's rotation am I meant to find satisfying?

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Imo I think the foundation of SMN is great, it just needs more buttons to be less spammy.
It almost feels like you're playing a Healer dps LOL...

Searing Light also feels tacked on imo, there's nothing interesting about it.
I think maybe they could remove it and make up for it with new skills instead, I rly don't think like every Job needs a party damage CD...
There's just too many of them imo, just put it into more personal damage.

I think the sequences are too short too, you're cycling through the summons so fast..
I dunno about buffs with all of the summons tho.
Ifrit at the end could put a burning dot on the target, Garuda could give you a Sps buff at the end and Titan could maybe turn Ruin IV into a Mountain Blaster-esque ogcd for a short period after he ends.
Or just a big upgrade hitter.

But yeah, the summons feel like they have a lack of impact imo because of how you're rushing through it.

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I think the problem is the pacing is based around dungeons. 2 summons is about all you get through at 90 in a good group. On more drawn out fights, it would be nice to have more to do.

I think the issue might be the fixation on having a two minute raid buff window. If the primals were say 25s apiece with 15s for phoenix/bahamut, it'd fit into a 90s cycle which would afford a larger window to each primal rather than them being a flash in the pan. I might be being too conservative here, and perhaps fitting two 40s primals in with a demi would give sufficient room to make engaging. The latter would likely necessitate ignoring a specific primal/cycle, so perhaps the ignored one could be linked to the demi? Naturally this would necessitate the development of a third, but reskinning bahamut again to alex or something could be pretty simple.

Or they could continue alternating bahamut/pheonix, but if you skipped titan maybe it'd upgrade to heritor titan with a different rotation style for the subsequent filler phase. Regular titan could have hard casts and heritor use instants. I think this would allow for a set of rotations, one hardcast focused perhaps with higher damage to compensate, and another more mobility-focused. While I want to suggest the mobility option would be better for prog, I'm pretty sure prog's where you're most likely to encounter enrages so maybe not.

As to what an engaging primal rotation looks like I'm unsure. Maybe every few casts you can build up to casting titan again or have it mesh with the rest of summoner's kit in some way(edit: sorry forgot for a minute) or some aetherflow interaction maybe?

"I am aware that I'm talking about sub50 smn" - to be fair most classes in this game are boring and unsatisfying pre- level 50 at this point.

As far as level 90, I continue to love the current iteration of the class as I find it far more enjoyable than any version since ARR. (Though I can admit there was something about each version I did like given it was my main DPS since 2014).

I'm really curious about what exactly you like about it, noone ever gets as far as articulating just what it is that they find compelling.

On a similar note, genuinely what difference do you see between current level 50 and 90 summoner, and lv50 ShB summoner?

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Originally Posted by fulminating

I'm really curious about what exactly you like about it, noone ever gets as far as articulating just what it is that they find compelling.

On a similar note, genuinely what difference do you see between current level 50 and 90 summoner, and lv50 ShB summoner?

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As others have commented over the years, the pet AI was not ideal for the original summoner. That said, I do miss having the flexibility to choose a constantly-out summoner like summoners in other games, and choosing to have things like Titan tank for solo content or choose which DPS egi I wanted in group content. It took me some time to get used to not having that anymore. I miss Shadowflare, but I feel they just gave that back to us with Garuda's cast-time skill so I'm okay with not having that anymore.

I don't personally miss having to set up dots and use bane, as it was often annoying and a lot of content things die before you feel like you even added much to some encounters. Summoners often come as a Dot class in many MMOs but it really didn't work well for me here even though in games like AION, I loved the summoner class which was essentially a Dot-Mage with Pet like SMN was here.

Honestly I don't remember LvL 50 ShB summoner because I was already level 70 when Shadowbringers came out, so the number of times I would have played the class at level 50 was minimal. I found Level 80 ShB Summoner needlessly chaoticand I recall the class being unpopular among casuals for that reason. I am a casual so my perspective is from that of a casual player.

I mean, here are some comments about ShB summoner just from a google search:

"Awful, got to 80, class didn't change from when i got everything at 72, and feels like a clunky fast paced "for cool factor" s***, ditched it yet again and now im leveling BLM, level 75 atm..."
"Extremely hard to play with barely any raid damage (lol devotion every 3 minutes) and from what I've heard it does around the same damage as RDM (provided you play SMN optimally which you won't)."
"It’s really clunky and annoying to play. I have a feeling they will change Smn again, just like with every expac lol. It’s tradition now."
"It's one of the busiest classes in the game with mediocre dps and almost zero survivability, I'm not satisfied at all with it, will be changing mains until further patches. Also Egis might as well not exist, their damage is almost nill."

Sure some did love the class by the end of ShB and there seems to be a ton of nostalgia for it here on this DPS forum, but I was among those who did not enjoy actually playing the class.

I really enjoy the class now. Sure it's "simple" but there is a huge audience for simple, and there is still some skill expression for things like making sure I have carbuncle out instead of a Summon when I need to shield, or choosing the order of the summons based on whether the boss will be moving (Garuda) or if I have time for melee skills and cast time (Ifirit). It's also laid back so I can focus a lot on what's actually happening instead of looking for procs or watching dot countdowns constantly which I personally did not enjoy. Finally, I do love the animations as while people here think that is vapid, I love them and love the feeling of them.

I often get 2 summoners as the DPS on my daily runs and see at least 3 every time I run casual 24 man content at 90 - so I have a feeling people outside the forums have been enjoying the class.

Checking out SMN PvP kinda made me wonder if the devs feel too restricted because of the pets needing to always be out.
I honestly kinda like the idea better of not having smaller summons out and instead having it be this big thing and event like in PvP.

SMN could still draw on Summons powers like in PvP and have more of them obviously.
But like is it really necessary to always have one out at all times?
I kinda like the idea of not having one out at the start then building up to them and having them be more impactful when they do come out rather than just being a consistent and kinda meh always present thing.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Sure it's "simple" but there is a huge audience for simple

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And the audience for old SMN can get fucked I guess? Couldn't have been a new job instead?

To me, level 50 summoner felt very coherent in shadowbringers - two dots, egi assaults and some filler. By level 80 it did seem to have rather more to do than most, but after sitting down for a bit with a training dummy it sort of clicked. I think the complaints about pet ai hold some weight, but were it to be refined slightly more it could well have been more than servicable. A lot of their issues stemmed from their decision to move when just casting more would have been significantly better. However I would be inclined to say that the knife cuts both ways on this - when comparing Living Shadow and Automaton Queen to Summoners pets the near complete lack of interaction with the former leads to them being scarcely more than glorified dots. Being able to use the egi assaults and theoretically positioning gave the user a better sense of actually being involved.

I do not feel the same way about the dots as you, but I also haven't played AION summoner so might not have always been comparing it to a more realised version of the concept. I suppose for aoe situations being able to detonate the dots to get more value would have been a nice addition, even if not strictly necessary. If we were to look at dungeon parses from shadowbringers, I would fully expect to see miasma III and Bio III up the top by damage contribution for any non-disatrous summoner.

In shadowbringers summoner had extremely good dps, even after the nerf so I'm unsure just when those comments refer to.

As long as your healer's not asleep at the wheel, there's no casual content where shielding is really necessary and to be entirely blunt there's two, maybe three hard casts per minute, the rest of the time you can pretty much run around like a headless chicken mashing gemshine and still do adequate damage.

There's a difference between making something accessible (lowering the skill floor) and removing all traces of complexity. There's no satisfaction in doing something correctly if you can't do it incorrectly: consider inner release - while the stacks might be a well-recieved QoL change, there isn't any satisfaction in getting the 5 3 fell cleaves in because you have to actively be trying to not. The same for bloodwhetting/nascent's flat potency, it used to require a modicum of forethought to get a substantial heal from it perhaps using it under inner release to really maximise the damage done to maximise healing done. Now you're pretty much full hp from any aoe, even without having to resort to chaotic cyclone/primal rend forcing a crit.

The summoner animations are nice I guess - my favourite is probably topaz rite, but I just don't think they can carry the job, particularly not in a year or so's time when everyone's very used to them.

They could be enjoying it or they could just want to watch youtube on the other monitor. I don't think you can assign meaningful motives to anecdotal strangers.

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Originally Posted by tearagion

And the audience for old SMN can get fucked I guess? Couldn't have been a new job instead?

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Which audience are you referring to? Those who wanted perma-pets or ShB summoners? Both audiences lost their class.

Likely what happened is they are monitoring play and popularity rates and ShB probably saw a decline outside of some hardcore fans of whatever they did with the class then.

I personally believe with no supporting evidence that ShB was probably the least-played version of Summoner among the playerbase as a whole since the game released. If this new one alienates more "old summoners" than it gains new fans, maybe they'll drastically change it again. I think more people are playing it now than ShB personally as far as the playerbase as a whole, but since this is anecdotal I guess we'll see. I think more likely they will add more things to do in the next expansion given overall this class has a lot of open bar space.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Which audience are you referring to? Those who wanted perma-pets or ShB summoners? Both audiences lost their class.

Likely what happened is they are monitoring play and popularity rates and ShB probably saw a decline outside of some hardcore fans of whatever they did with the class then.

I personally believe with no supporting evidence that ShB was probably the least-played version of Summoner among the playerbase as a whole since the game released. If this new one alienates more "old summoners" than it gains new fans, maybe they'll drastically change it again. I think more people are playing it now than ShB personally as far as the playerbase as a whole, but since this is anecdotal I guess we'll see. I think more likely they will add more things to do in the next expansion given overall this class has a lot of open bar space.

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So they can get fucked. At least you're honest, if roundabout when expressing it.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Checking out SMN PvP kinda made me wonder if the devs feel too restricted because of the pets needing to always be out.
I honestly kinda like the idea better of not having smaller summons out and instead having it be this big thing and event like in PvP.

SMN could still draw on Summons powers like in PvP and have more of them obviously.
But like is it really necessary to always have one out at all times?
I kinda like the idea of not having one out at the start then building up to them and having them be more impactful when they do come out rather than just being a consistent and kinda meh always present thing.

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the issue is that the summons were never used they were secondary characters instead of the other way around imagine the summons more like machinist queen thats how little they actually affected the grandscheme of things they could've easily had a really good and diverse pet job if they actually wanted you to use the pets and not make them an afterthought that barely did anything. hell they got rid of even having to keep pets hp up which would typically be part of the summoners job (pet jobs in general) and titan became useless basically as soon as htey couldn't draw aggro which got nothing changed for him sadly. supporting the pets and occasionally dealing damage themselves if the game allows it. when you put no emphasis on the pets being the main point of the job of course it's gonna feel unneccessary

right now we have no real pet jobs anymore we have a stance dancer and a fairy/bigger fairy that also wouldn't surprise me if they just made SCH like SMN eventually

To be honest, they could have just gave SMN pets the SCH pet Treatment.
Make them more responsive, and keep Bahamut/phoenix stationary.
i am so happy that DWT augments our basic spells now, that's cool,
I miss the old phoenix 1-2 combo, heaven forbid a caster other than RDM has one.
why did they take away firebird trance from 72? now we suddenly summon phoenix at 80.

Old SMN not only had buildup in its rotation but spells acquisition as well.

the only build-up we get in any form in new SMN is 1-58 where we get egis and DWT. then nothing really till 70/80/86/90* other than our filler becomes elemental.

even our rotation there isn't anything to build up anymore. we just do. the gauge is just a timer that changes color.

BUT I will admit new smn is nice for I can use SpS on it. which makes it feel nice.. and once relics come I may delete Ruin III from the rotation.

But I agree with other, I don't feel like a SMN anymore. commanding my creations. More of an envoker now.. like FFXVI

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Originally Posted by tearagion

So they can get fucked. At least you're honest, if roundabout when expressing it.

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I don't see why you are angry at me for being a SMN player since 2014 who also lost enjoyment from the perma-pet version after that went away. It's not up to me. I already accepted this fact when I lost my perma-pets.

I enjoy the class as it is now way more than I did 2 years ago and that's all that matters to me. It's a vast improvement over how annoying I felt the class was, to me, in ShB as I felt I was spending more time watching rotations than enjoying what I was doing.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I don't see why you are angry at me for being a SMN player since 2014 who also lost enjoyment from the perma-pet version after that went away. It's not up to me. I already accepted this fact when I lost my perma-pets.

I enjoy the class as it is now way more than I did 2 years ago and that's all that matters to me. It's a vast improvement over how annoying I felt the class was, to me, in ShB as I felt I was spending more time watching rotations than enjoying what I was doing.

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I'm not angry at you lol, I just want SMN defenders to embrace their true feelings. Congratulations on putting one of them into words.

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Originally Posted by tearagion

I'm not angry at you lol, I just want SMN defenders to embrace their true feelings. Congratulations on putting one of them into words.

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Not like you care about the enjoyment of those who do like the class right now either, so *shrug*

I just want to see the numbers at this point for all the jobs.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Not like you care about the enjoyment of those who do like the class right now either, so *shrug*

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Who says I don't care that people enjoy newSMN, no need to project so hard. I just don't think it needed to come at such a steep expense. They didn't delete bard to make dancer.

*sigh* all I'm seeing is more and more pages justifying why this rework should have happened in 2013 instead of 2021 and why baiting people into believing Summoner was something it clearly wasn't supposed to be was a bad idea. Shb era SMN should not have been released, no class should have that many systems stacked on top of each other but whatever "enjoyable" mechanics it had should have gone to a Necromancer or Time Mage class while Summoner by this point should have its full pantheon and associated skills.

No one can claim a full victory here.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

*sigh* all I'm seeing is more and more pages justifying why this rework should have happened in 2013 instead of 2021 and why baiting people into believing Summoner was something it clearly wasn't supposed to be was a bad idea. Shb era SMN should not have been released, no class should have that many systems stacked on top of each other but whatever "enjoyable" mechanics it had should have gone to a Necromancer or Time Mage class while Summoner by this point should have its full pantheon and associated skills.

No one can claim a full victory here.

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Pretty much this 100%

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Originally Posted by fulminating

Prior to 6.0 I started the summoner zodiac relic and recently I found it half-finished in my chocobo saddlebag. I'm currently partway through the book phase, so I've been tasked with a selection of fates among other things. In Shadowbringers the fates while basic were pretty enjoyable - the upkeep of two dots and egi assaults required some attention.

I don't really understand where I am meant to find the engaging gameplay in its current incarnation. I am aware that I'm talking about sub50 smn, but since it hardly changes I don't consider that to be too significant. The order of the carbuncles/primals hardly seems to matter, and even at 90 they hardly change the rotation away from that one button. Is there something else I'm missing here? I can't see any other skills in the actions and traits menu.

I would like to finish this relic, but as it stands I'm struggling to find enjoyment in the job and thus motivation to continue. I guess I could find multiclass mind gear and instead assist my chocobo, but I don't really think that would be particularly fun either.

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The Summoning of the Primals or the things that look like the Primals.

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Originally Posted by Katoar

The Summoning of the Primals or the things that look like the Primals.

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Shall I put you down as another for "aesthetics" then?

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Originally Posted by Katoar

The Summoning of the Primals or the things that look like the Primals.

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I'd like to point out the person you are replying to specifically said "engaging gameplay" and the aesthetics of the job have nothing to do with that.

But pretty sparkles are gameplay! Whee, sparkles! Sparkle monster one, two, three... Oh Sparkle Monster 4 varies in shape, but the buttons totally change between them. Wheee! More sparkles!

Behold the one-button macro of sparkles! Now we can decorate our face with glitter while playing. I can't wait until we Sparkle Monsters 5,6 and 7! It's Pokemon but with particle effects! And we win everytime!

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Originally Posted by WhimsicalPacifist

But pretty sparkles are gameplay! Whee, sparkles! Sparkle monster one, two, three... Oh Sparkle Monster 4 varies in shape, but the buttons totally change between them. Wheee! More sparkles!

Behold the one-button macro of sparkles! Now we can decorate our face with glitter while playing. I can't wait until we Sparkle Monsters 5,6 and 7! It's Pokemon but with particle effects! And we win everytime!

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thats kinda depressing

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Originally Posted by Axxion

thats kinda depressing

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you think that's depressing without macro delay, longer macros/chain macros, and a way to macro turning your camera. you could in this scenario macro an entire savage fight using the in game macro system. the only things that would even remotely require human interaction is for the few RNG mechanics we have like plumes in P3s or shackles in P1s for examples

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Originally Posted by Axxion

thats kinda depressing

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Tbh I hate the Dragon Kick spam MNK with a burning passion too lol.
It's so stupid.
Especially because there's so few of us ( especially in harder content ).
The Optimal Drift rotation isn't even hard either I dunno why it gets overcomplicated to hell ( some of the graphs people have made that I've seen are truly cursed ).
It scares people away and into dumb rotations.

A "real pet job" is a pipe dream in this game. I, for one, am happy they accepted this rather than trying to drag this any further and make it work. As far as I can tell, FF Summons were never persistent pets anyway, so let's just put that idea to rest and move on.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

A "real pet job" is a pipe dream in this game. I, for one, am happy they accepted this rather than trying to drag this any further and make it work. As far as I can tell, FF Summons were never persistent pets anyway, so let's just put that idea to rest and move on.

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a "real pet job" is a pipe dream because WE allowed it too. we should expect a multimillion dollar company to be able to create a good functioning pet job. not bin it and turn it into a completely different playstyle while not giving anything back to the players who genuinely enjoyed the pet playstyle despite how poorly it was handled.

and by saying hey yoshi-p and SE we're glad you lobotomized our kit to require no thinking outside of ifrit/garuda hardcast and making it feel barebones at 90. or the fact they got rid of it and basically pissed off an entire playstyle cause they didn't give anything back to them. all you're doing is opening the way for other jobs to get the same treatment. and then they'll start complaining their job was lobotomized and changed playstyles with nothing for them to turn too.

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Originally Posted by pikalovr

a "real pet job" is a pipe dream because WE allowed it too. we should expect a multimillion dollar company to be able to create a good functioning pet job. not bin it and turn it into a completely different playstyle while not giving anything back to the players who genuinely enjoyed the pet playstyle despite how poorly it was handled.

and by saying hey yoshi-p and SE we're glad you lobotomized our kit to require no thinking outside of ifrit/garuda hardcast and making it feel barebones at 90. or the fact they got rid of it and basically pissed off an entire playstyle cause they didn't give anything back to them. all you're doing is opening the way for other jobs to get the same treatment. and then they'll start complaining their job was lobotomized and changed playstyles with nothing for them to turn too.

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Right, because money is the answer to everything. :rolleyes:

Like I said, I've played plenty of MMOs where they've tried to have pet classes. Very few actually work well. In this game, with the way combat goes, it's just not happening. You need to step back and take some deep breaths or something. Take some time off.

We've been over why SMN had to change. To expect this kind of shift in other jobs is honestly ridiculous. None have been so broken as SMN. Frankly, it never should've been a pet class to begin with. We're glad the fix finally came and now's the time to move forward and help them find a better way forward with this job.

If you don't have anything constructive to add, then you're just as guilty as you accuse us of being.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Right, because money is the answer to everything. :rolleyes:

Like I said, I've played plenty of MMOs where they've tried to have pet classes. Very few actually work well. In this game, with the way combat goes, it's just not happening. You need to step back and take some deep breaths or something. Take some time off.

We've been over why SMN had to change. To expect this kind of shift in other jobs is honestly ridiculous. None have been so broken as SMN. Frankly, it never should've been a pet class to begin with. We're glad the fix finally came and now's the time to move forward and help them find a better way forward with this job.

If you don't have anything constructive to add, then you're just as guilty as you accuse us of being.

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People seem to remember ff11 summoner quite fondly, which was thoroughly a pet job, as was beastmaster, as was puppetmaster. That's just the same franchise, let alone "plenty of MMOs". The one who isn't being constructive is you.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Right, because money is the answer to everything. :rolleyes:

Like I said, I've played plenty of MMOs where they've tried to have pet classes. Very few actually work well. In this game, with the way combat goes, it's just not happening. You need to step back and take some deep breaths or something. Take some time off.

We've been over why SMN had to change. To expect this kind of shift in other jobs is honestly ridiculous. None have been so broken as SMN. Frankly, it never should've been a pet class to begin with. We're glad the fix finally came and now's the time to move forward and help them find a better way forward with this job.

If you don't have anything constructive to add, then you're just as guilty as you accuse us of being.

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i literally brought up a pet combat system that fixes nearly every issue people had but we'll just ignore that rq just like i explained how they approached it terribly but we'lla lso ignore that as well ig if you have nothing constructive to say shut up. you've done nothing but sit there and defend SE even when we have multiple examples of jobs being lobotomized you explain to me why AST lost sleeve draw and triple redraw go ahead give me one good reason beside "it's too harddddd" especially since they got rid of div relying on the RNG system and turned into just another 2 min CD go ahead give me one actual good reason

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Tbh I hate the Dragon Kick spam MNK with a burning passion too lol.
It's so stupid.
Especially because there's so few of us ( especially in harder content ).
The Optimal Drift rotation isn't even hard either I dunno why it gets overcomplicated to hell ( some of the graphs people have made that I've seen are truly cursed ).
It scares people away and into dumb rotations.

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Oh honey you should have seen the reaction from my friends in discord when i showed them that. *chef kiss* reactions

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Originally Posted by pikalovr

you think that's depressing without macro delay, longer macros/chain macros, and a way to macro turning your camera. you could in this scenario macro an entire savage fight using the in game macro system. the only things that would even remotely require human interaction is for the few RNG mechanics we have like plumes in P3s or shackles in P1s for examples

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At that point why play?

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Originally Posted by Axxion

Oh honey you should have seen the reaction from my friends in discord when i showed them that. *chef kiss* reactions



At that point why play?

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i mean people play content they can clear basically just running from point A to point B and occasionally hitting a button so?

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Originally Posted by pikalovr

i mean people play content they can clear basically just running from point A to point B and occasionally hitting a button so?

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https://memegenerator.net/img/instan...fair-point.jpg

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Originally Posted by tearagion

People seem to remember ff11 summoner quite fondly, which was thoroughly a pet job, as was beastmaster, as was puppetmaster. That's just the same franchise, let alone "plenty of MMOs". The one who isn't being constructive is you.

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I played FFXI summoner and it was pretty much like the way XIV summoner is now. It was impossible to actually maintain a summon other than carbuncle. You summoned x for y benefit and switched back to Carb.

FFXI combat never involved the huge packs of mobs and all that we see here. (Someone can correct me as I only played for a couple years early on.)

We can go on and on in circles about the past and other game's systems, but they won't change the fact that in this world, there are certain restrictions that prevent the ideal pet job from properly existing here. People can talk about money and other AIs all they want. Don't look at us like it was our fault. The system just didn't work.

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Originally Posted by pikalovr

i literally brought up a pet combat system

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I acknowledge it in pretty much every response, but you're so blinded by your rage. It doesn't matter what I say. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

I acknowledge it in pretty much every response, but you're so blinded by your rage. It doesn't matter what I say. :rolleyes:

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if you really "acknowledged" it you'd have realized that it did infact fix every issue most people had with the pets in this game, and could've easily been implemented in how even current sumoner works. you didn't acknowledge it you brushed it off like you do everything else cause heaven forbid SE does something wrong am i right? people like you are who piss me off you bring nothing to the table, except just sitting there nodding your head like a yes man to every little single change even as the game devolves into a walking simulator. just like you can't come up with one good reason to remove sleeve draw and the triple plannable redraw on AST can you? cause you can't and thats the point i'm trying to drill into your god damn head WAKE UP and see whats happening

yes SMN needed to be FIXED but lets just mess over the pet job playerbase right? instead of looking at literally any of those other MMOs with good pet jobs/combat and trying what they did, no lets just bin it and turn the egis into stances. you have plenty of people in these forums alone that have brought up interesting ways to do SMN while keeping the pet playstyle or how to fix the pets. but just ignore them ig other forums/media outlets also have brought up good ways to handle the SMN pet situation but once again why listen to those people when you can just bin the playstyle and turn it into a braindead job. which next expansion will see shit like "enhanced ruin 2" that will decrease radiant aegis CD by 5 seconds on hit and not even work with the ruin 4 upgrade mind you. despite it serving no purpose in literally all forms of content outside of oh no everyones dead and i'm tanking. and you still get two charges of it even then. and you'll just be sitting there shedding a tear going "beautiful" like they just didn't add in a worthless trait.

this is the shit i'm talking about, and yes money can solve everything it can hire people who can actually god damn balance and rework jobs without literally removing their playstyle or needing to cut almost every complex ability from the kit. amazing how when you have more people on your development team more stuff can get done or the same stuff can be done better to a higher degree of quality weird that right? it's almost as if common sense is something lacking in most of the playerbase. also you seriously doubt no one in the world could've gotten a proper pet system working? literally no one? cause guess what MONEY allows you to hire those people as well

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

I played FFXI summoner and it was pretty much like the way XIV summoner is now.

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Actual pets with a tangible presence in the game world, that have a meaningful duration, that have multiple abilities, and aren't hard locked with an idiot-proof sticker gauge is pretty much the same as a reused asset spell effect that gives you ruin 3++? How do you figure? Not saying FFXI summoner is perfect the Avatars were pretty poorly balanced, but what the fuck are you saying.

Oh yeah, word, FFXIV has absolutely no non-player characters that execute abilities reliably and predictably. Learn to read between the lines: they weren't willing to make a DPS pet class work. Fairies are now very smooth to operate, it's not hard to stretch the imagination and see how a DPS pet class could function pleasurably.

The game runs on whatever code they use, not imagination. There are clearly limits to what can be done. I'm a big fan of pet classes and played one every chance I got. I stuck it out through a lot of different bugs and issues in different games. I would have very much liked to see something functional here, but it's clear that it's not going to happen. I'm not brushing anything off, just accepting the reality of the situation.

btw, Read the full text again if you don't understand what it is I'm saying.

I think the issue is the pet was nearly functional enough - they could have made its attacks instant so it could reposition and cast, they could have left positioning it as part of the skill ceiling, they could have removed the ability for demis to wander or whatever it was they did to the faeries to make them feel more responsive. They could even entirely decouple pet skills from the GCD. There was no need to throw the entire system out when it was so close.