They need to rethink how they do story in 7.0 +

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Originally Posted by Duskane

i think we got enough time to develop all the plot points in
ARR,HW,SB and ShB

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To bad it not much relevant for 6.0 then. Most of this plots finished ,and in a good way, like HW. Then what was left was rushed and thrown to the garbage by not 3ven half the way point. Asians? Zodiac? How cares emissions and suasidal tandemcis are the villain now.all of this was such a big ass pull I can't even.

all gas and no breaks makes WoL a very tired man.

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

To bad it not much relevant for 6.0 then. Most of this plots finished ,and in a good way, like HW. Then what was left was rushed and thrown to the garbage by not 3ven half the way point. Asians? Zodiac? How cares emissions and suasidal tandemcis are the villain now.all of this was such a big ass pull I can't even.

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you do realize Zodiark was a reaction to something happening right.

I was annoyed that the sidequests all unlocked when you accepted an msq that took you away from that location. Should have unlocked with finishing the previous msq, so I wasn't narratively elsewhere already and had to back track to do the side quest but could have done them right at the point between msqs when I was already at the location.

I enjoyed lugging around boxes with Alisae a lot more than running around for yet another part of the Talos.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

Why am I the only one who remembers the rabbits returning after the moon, lol?

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The rabbits after the moon were only a minor moment relative to the other stories. And sharlayan round two was used for the same purpose as the rabbit part of the moon, namely to give us a respite to the story after both the apocalypse and revelation to the apocalypse, before we headed of towards the climax.

What we need is more interesting gameplay for quest.

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

I find it more that any thing show we got no place in this world no meter what we do. No one care after all.

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The dock scene in Sharlayan should have disabused you of that notion. Everyone was someone who was touched in some way by the Warrior of Light. They were all part of either former MSQ content or side content (like the Void Ark air pirates showing up). We called upon them, and they answered. The Scions are like our family but we have many friends in the world.

This is still a RPG and you kinda do these things in RPGs. Besides that, pretty sure that canon WoL is a humble hero. Maybe for other games it wouldn't work but we're not above grunt work if it means helping others in some way.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

The dock scene in Sharlayan should have disabused you of that notion. Everyone was someone who was touched in some way by the Warrior of Light. They were all part of either former MSQ content or side content (like the Void Ark air pirates showing up). We called upon them, and they answered. The Scions are like our family but we have many friends in the world.

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And this is the problem with people that don't pay attention and don't do side quests because many characters outside of the MSQ shows up at that part and could be easily missed and forgotten, when it showed so many characters I was like: "Oh my god that person was from (X), oh cool that guy from (Y) is here too!" I totally lost it when the Prima Vista was seen at the background in Sharlayan.

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Originally Posted by hagare

all gas and no breaks makes WoL a very tired man.



you do realize Zodiark was a reaction to something happening right.

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I do. It's just to this point we did not know it. And what replaced him was not interesting at all.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

This is still a RPG and you kinda do these things in RPGs. Besides that, pretty sure that canon WoL is a humble hero. Maybe for other games it wouldn't work but we're not above grunt work if it means helping others in some way.

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As I did say by 6.0 it stoped working. I clearly say that at the start it did. As for rog show me one where you do this at end game.

I would not mind the more menial tasks if each NPC didn't spend an hour describing how to lift and move a box.

I love when they put that level of detail into important story information. I hate when they put that same detail into what type of wood is used in the shipping containers.

If there's one thing they should rethink about the story in 7.0+ then it's only the question "Should we keep only voicing the important cutscenes, or should we do it like ESO and start voicing EVERYTHING, including the raid storylines which absolutely deserve voice acting ffs"

I don't think it was that bad really in EW except for the Labyrinthos part, especially because of that short music loop over and over again.
SHB had the trolly part too which was quite similar.

I think having some breathing room makes sense, sometimes it can overstay its welcome tho.

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Originally Posted by Arkfrost

If there's one thing they should rethink about the story in 7.0+ then it's only the question "Should we keep only voicing the important cutscenes, or should we do it like ESO and start voicing EVERYTHING, including the raid storylines which absolutely deserve voice acting ffs"

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I kinda think that having to read actually makes you take it in better, this is obviously my opinion but I kinda like having to read stuff too and the big hype cutscenes being different.
I think there's a lot of scenes that wouldn't hit as hard if I didn't have to read, when you read you kinda just internalize and think about things more.
When things are voiced it's easier to begin treating it like a movie where you just turn your brain off and lean back, I think people kinda stop paying as much attention.
Having to read makes you pay more attention because you're reading every word in your head instead of it just going in one ear and out the next.

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Originally Posted by Arkfrost

If there's one thing they should rethink about the story in 7.0+ then it's only the question "Should we keep only voicing the important cutscenes, or should we do it like ESO and start voicing EVERYTHING, including the raid storylines which absolutely deserve voice acting ffs"

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They will never as to much people will say "but it's how ff is and Japan and all". I will love it but I live in reality.

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

Then what was left was rushed and thrown to the garbage by not 3ven half the way point. Asians? Zodiac?

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The writers had all agreed for a long time that neither Hydaelyn nor Zodiark should be the final boss. It would have been too obvious.

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Originally Posted by Ilisidi

I was annoyed that the sidequests all unlocked when you accepted an msq that took you away from that location.

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Yoshi-P played through the MSQ several times just to figure out the best place to unlock sidequests. It was annoying but I'm used to it. There were probably times where sidequests didn't make sense at any point narratively, but he had to find the least worst moment to unlock them.

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Originally Posted by OM3GA-Z3RO

And this is the problem with people that don't pay attention and don't do side quests because many characters outside of the MSQ shows up at that part and could be easily missed and forgotten, when it showed so many characters I was like: "Oh my god that person was from (X), oh cool that guy from (Y) is here too!" I totally lost it when the Prima Vista was seen at the background in Sharlayan.

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On the other hand, I suspect many of those who have done 'everything' would be happier with more meaningful engagement with side quest characters instead of cheap surface level acknowledgement and cameos. For example, given that the new story is based around going to the Void it would have made more sense to call upon characters relevant to just that - the Void. Instead not only are we stuck with the Scions yet again, nobody thinks to approach the characters who survived dealing with Voidsent in the Void Ark raids...or the Reaper job trainer and her companions. Or the Thaumatage/Black Mage job trainers.

'Look, it's X! Remember him?' Does little to excite me, personally.

Or involve the chaps who are actually from the Thirteenth.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

The writers had all agreed for a long time that neither Hydaelyn nor Zodiark should be the final boss. It would have been too obvious..

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And you know that how?
This hole part in EW was made poorly that all.
Out of no where there a new villain that's not even lasting half the expansion?
Good Volans was zenos (in SB)and emet selch. Why? They was build up slowly and payed off. Was more that just "emotions are bad existence is pain let's all Suicide".
Over all EW fells like that mixed 2 or even 3 expansions in to 1.

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

And you know that how?
This hole part in EW was made poorly that all.
Out of no where there a new villain that's not even lasting half the expansion?
Good Volans was zenos (in SB)and emet selch. Why? They was build up slowly and payed off. Was more that just "emotions are bad existence is pain let's all Suicide".
Over all EW fells like that mixed 2 or even 3 expansions in to 1.

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zenos? a good villain??? man is basically goku though if he was a bit less on the friendly side, he simply wants to fight you for the sake of fighting you. i don't think thats really a good villain.

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Originally Posted by Veranolth

Still beats doing poop quests in WoW.

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I must admit, that with Patch 9.2.5 WoW has become a relatively nice game. They have removed almost all stupid FOMO-mechanics, artificial caps etc. So you can play what you want and you are not "forced" to do content, you do not like. I play it again very casually and it is fun so far. It is funny and sad at the same time, that the devs turn it into a nice game when too many players left it.


Cheers

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Originally Posted by Arkfrost

If there's one thing they should rethink about the story in 7.0+ then it's only the question "Should we keep only voicing the important cutscenes, or should we do it like ESO and start voicing EVERYTHING, including the raid storylines which absolutely deserve voice acting ffs"

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If this game was done in one language, that would seem feasible, but it's done in 5 or 6. That's your multiplier for each hour of voiceover which probably costs close to 200$ / hour for the actor and studio time. Of course, there's additional time for the team to fit all that in. Before that, there's the audition process. It's a lot of extra time and effort for something many will casually skip.

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

Can have spoilers
What I mean by that is cut the filler out. It killed 6.0 for me completely. If each time before we got to a new place and no one there know how we are it make some sense we do small things for them. But by 6.0 it gets old. Like we just saved some people from the end of the world , then we go serve tea and move boxes? Really? We are the god hero of the world and we doing this trash,why? Lots of other filler quests. Make them side ones at last. I hope that SE stop doing it and just do a main ques to the point. Even if it need to be shorter.

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I guess you missed the part where we're Azem and always are there for the people. Trivial tasks and all...that was hammered home quite a bit. It's why your WoL never really ever gets pissed about these tasks. Even ones were roped into are generally just shrugged off by us.

Hell that filler trash is probably helping to keep us grounded and not battle hungry with a singular goal like Zenos tbf

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

I do. It's just to this point we did not know it. And what replaced him was not interesting at all.

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But, we do.
Emet told us in Rak'tika the story of Zodiark and Hydaelyn.
As for your second part, that is understandable.
Stories are subjective after all.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

I guess you missed the part where we're Azem and always are there for the people. Trivial tasks and all...that was hammered home quite a bit. It's why your WoL never really ever gets pissed about these tasks. Even ones were roped into are generally just shrugged off by us.

Hell that filler trash is probably helping to keep us grounded and not battle hungry with a singular goal like Zenos tbf

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Dark Knight quests seem to imply the opposite. That the stupid requests of npcs are slowly pushing us to the point of mass murder.

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

Dark Knight quests seem to imply the opposite. That the stupid requests of npcs are slowly pushing us to the point of mass murder.

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...People really should realize that saying "no" occasionally doesn't instantly imply that you'll massacre anyone who ever asks for help with something trivial.

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Originally Posted by Misplaced_Marbles

...People really should realize that saying "no" occasionally doesn't instantly imply that you'll massacre anyone who ever asks for help with something trivial.

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The issue is that the Dark Knight quests don't even start with Fray telling us to say "no".
Fray doesn't snap because people constantly ask for help for menial tasks. He snapped because people who did that would then go on to act entitled and ungrateful.
The problem in the quest wasn't that people nagged us to help them with their cargo. It's that we had to deal with monsters along the way, and their gore was coating the cargo. We got it safely, just with a few gross things on the packaging. And the guy we helped threw a tantrum. That's when he says we should have let them all die to Leviathan.

I am more worried on the First...they teased us the void quests with the job npcs along with the Warring Triad one with the possibility of restoring the 13th, we got Ryne and Gaia after Eden and i would be damn surprised if they do not do anything with them.

It makes me wonder if they will do a time skip unless they mentioned something about that, of course we're still at 6.1...

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

Dark Knight quests seem to imply the opposite. That the stupid requests of npcs are slowly pushing us to the point of mass murder.

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It's not the tasks themselves. It's feeling like we're being taken for granted that cheeses us off about it.

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Originally Posted by BluexBird

I pretty much lost it at this expansion when they made us track down like 10+ NPCs scattered around that town in Labyrinthos. But other than that, I don't think the rest of the filler content was that bad.

Looking forward to the next escort mission where we can't get too close to the NPC.

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I still remember that incredibly out of place song that played during that segment. It really didn't help that it was like a 20 seconds loop. Over, and over, and over again, all while searching for those NPCs.

In a way, I get the point of those quests. They are meant to slow down the action, and also show that the WoL is at their heart an adventurer out to help people, rather then just be in it for the God Slaying. Whilst that notion can be examined and challenged in places like the DRK quests, I feel they want that to be a core part of our character, even if they are adding more dialogue options where we can be rather bitter in how we react to the menial tasks. I think that if anything, we may see more types of quests like this if their plan for 7.0 is to have the WoL go back to the road of adventuring. That said I do not think these type of quests are bad per-say. They can be good ways to learn more about the environment and characters we meet, if done right. Not every MSQ needs to be about life-or-death encounters with eldric beings. I will admit that they can be rather tiering at times, with the Labyrinthos quest being very painful…

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

zenos? a good villain??? man is basically goku though if he was a bit less on the friendly side, he simply wants to fight you for the sake of fighting you. i don't think thats really a good villain.

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You may not like him and it's totally ok. He is good in how he was introduced. They build him up. Show why he do it and all that. They did not ass pulled him in the lady part of the story.

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

zenos? a good villain??? man is basically goku though if he was a bit less on the friendly side, he simply wants to fight you for the sake of fighting you. i don't think thats really a good villain.

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Not every villain needs to have this big huge theatrical motivation to destroy the world or enslave it, or needs some sappy backstory to make us feel bad for them and understand their motivation...or even turn heel and agree with them/side with them.
Sometimes a Good Fun villain can be the most simple thing; Somebody who just wants a good fight, and will do everything in their power to get that good fight, even to the point of obsession and they may do truly bad things to get what they want.

Zenos was a Good Villain.
He was truly the one entity that could stand with us.
Plus what other Villain Denied us the killing blow by taking his own life with a smile? Thats a true Villain right there.

Endwalker's story felt rushed. We spent too much time talking and hanging out with the Scions in Sharlyan and not enough time actually seeing them actively trying to stop the Final Days. If the pace of the story was slowed down while those more casual moments were clipped down some, I think the expansion would have been much better.

6.1's part of the story was way better paced. It felt like it went back to the old story telling pace FFXIV had done in its past expansions, which I greatly enjoyed. In 6.0, I kid you not, I was falling asleep having to trudge around Sharlyan with the Scions for the one millionth time.

Don't get me wrong, I still loved those moments with the Scions. But like I said before, those types of moments should have been cut down as they were far too long and it honestly cheapened the impending doom that was supposed to be the Final Days.

I understand what the devs were trying to do, but it was far too much hopium shoved in your face the whole time and not enough hopelessness that challenged that.

Radz-at-Han did a great job displaying the despair that was the Final Days, both the fake and real one, while the Scions tried to help stop the outbreak. If there was a more evened out contrast between that and those fleeting peaceful moments we spent with the Scions in Sharlyan, then i think the expansion would have turned out far better than it did.

Again, too much focus on the Scions walking about in Sharlyan and not enough focus on showcasing the Final Days and all the people's motives that either brought it about or tried to prevent it.

I hope to never see this type of rushed and flip flopped pacing in FFXIV ever again as it dam near killed all the hype for me and literally was almost putting me to sleep half the time.

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Originally Posted by Soge01

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I think the worse part for me was Elpis.
Like..I understand the storybuilding that they wanted & needed to accomplish, but it felt dragged out. I felt like we were there to long, and thats probly the Only time, Personally, that I got a little bored and almost fell asleep in EW.
When the Report came in, thats when I woke up and was interested again. Sure seeing our boy and his best friend and mom again was exciting...but Elpis just took to long.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

I think the worse part for me was Elpis.
Like..I understand the storybuilding that they wanted & needed to accomplish, but it felt dragged out. I felt like we were there to long, and thats probly the Only time, Personally, that I got a little bored and almost fell asleep in EW.
When the Report came in, thats when I woke up and was interested again. Sure seeing our boy and his best friend and mom again was exciting...but Elpis just took to long.

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For myself, when it came to Elpis, I thought we weren't there long enough, lol! Though I do see your point and maybe a few quests could have been cut so there was more focus on Venat, Hermes and the rest so we'd get a clearer accurate read on their thoughts, feelings and motives, along with changes in their stance on certain things when it came to the Final Days.

Like, I really would have liked to see an example of Venat's change in her faith in her people beung able to survive the Final days while we were still in Elpis.

Showing a seen or two of Ancients just giving up on trying to defend themselves when their own magicks don't work on an out of control concept or something would have been a good way to show even a twinge of doubt in her own people's survivability. After all, she, her decipiles, Azem, Emet-Selch and Hytholodeous are anomalies among their people. They all have the will to survive and see things through to the end, no matter how painful and soul wrenching it can get. The rest of the Ancients are all just basically giant brains with no capability to survive without their magicks. Emet-Selch's recreation of the Final Days, plus Venat crytalized amalgamation of that time shows just how hopeless the Ancients were without their creation magicks.

Though again, it would have been nice to see that contrast between a worldy traveled and well versed fighter like Venat compared to your average Ancient, who, again is nothing but a giant brain with a ton of magical power but useless without the latter while we were there prrsent in Elpis instead of a flashback later on when we leave. Because her sudden change in stance, along with Hermes sudden distrust of the gang when Metion started her report through me for a loop, as it was so dam out of the blue and you could tell there was supoosed to be a least a few more cutscenes before those moments even happened so we'd understand exactly what was going on in both those moments. xD

I would love them to add more solo duties to the story so we can directly experience it instead of spending the majority of the MSQ in cutscenes. I think the Garlean solo duty was one of the best things they did for the MSQ and want more of that in the game. I also want all the zones to feel like they have a purpose and feel important to the story's progression like I felt in ShB. I feel like they need to add more gameplay into the story quests instead of feeling like it is just a movie I am watching with a little gameplay in between going from point a to point b.

Whereas I loved the Elpis section and loathe the Garlemald section and especially the solo duty which was even more tedious than the normal one button solo sections.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Not every villain needs to have this big huge theatrical motivation to destroy the world or enslave it, or needs some sappy backstory to make us feel bad for them and understand their motivation...or even turn heel and agree with them/side with them.
Sometimes a Good Fun villain can be the most simple thing; Somebody who just wants a good fight, and will do everything in their power to get that good fight, even to the point of obsession and they may do truly bad things to get what they want.

Zenos was a Good Villain.
He was truly the one entity that could stand with us.
Plus what other Villain Denied us the killing blow by taking his own life with a smile? Thats a true Villain right there.

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he kill steal me. xD
Seriously though, one of my favorite moment in the new adventure saga was buying a man drinks to get information I needed xD

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Originally Posted by Theodric

On the other hand, I suspect many of those who have done 'everything' would be happier with more meaningful engagement with side quest characters instead of cheap surface level acknowledgement and cameos. For example, given that the new story is based around going to the Void it would have made more sense to call upon characters relevant to just that - the Void. Instead not only are we stuck with the Scions yet again, nobody thinks to approach the characters who survived dealing with Voidsent in the Void Ark raids...or the Reaper job trainer and her companions. Or the Thaumatage/Black Mage job trainers.

'Look, it's X! Remember him?' Does little to excite me, personally.

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It just feels completely out of place considering the whole ending scene to the 6.0 MSQ with everyone going their separate ways. I bet it would be even more jarring if I did the MSQ now and went from saying my goodbyes to all the Scions to meeting up with them again 10 minutes later.

Story is gonna be a lot better now that Zenos is dead though, what's to complain about? :v