DSR was just solo healed

the thing im most impressed by is that they were able to survive everything w/o a shield healer (the 30 sec 10% mit is up for pretty much everything)

"healing" is actually ridiculously easy vast majority of the time, arguably all the time

so long as everyone lives the raidwide, topping ppl off is pretty much an afterthought (there r massive gaps in between party dmg, often it is not even necessary to heal until downtime where u can use GCD heals freely)

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Originally Posted by Renathras

That's...kind of my point. If most groups aren't able to do it, then it isn't the general situation. If most groups were still failing or just clearing with 2 healers, than suggesting that it's undertuned would be saying none of those people should have been clearing (since tuning it high enough the groups that WERE doing it with single healers likely would mean too much healing for these other groups to handle). And, again, I was talking about progression and early runs, when people HADN'T outright memorized the entire fights so they could do them in their sleep. :)

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You're missing the point though. If the fights are so laughably undertuned that no healers are required, it means bringing two gives them almost nothing to do. Hence why healers at all skill levels have been complaining how bored they've become. A lot of players at the EX level overestimate the difficulty of Primals or simply throw up a PF without even caring about the comp. It should also be noted a big reason for strict comp adherent actually has to do with FFlogs. In order to parse under the Standard category, you must bring a 2/2/4 comp. Therefore, two healers are required despite not being necessary. I can all but guarantee you if this were to change every static from the upper midcore and higher would be forcing one of their healers onto a Melee/Black Mage in Savage content. This whole tier has no strict two healer requirements.

Progression shouldn't be the only consideration here though. Warrior, for example, is arguably the best progression tank and worst at farming. Despite this, it's still fun and engaging to play. Healers lack this duality. They're only fun when you have no idea what's going on because once people know the damage sources, their gameplay is reduced to spamming a single button.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

No, I'm talking about tuning. There is an issue that as people get better, healers have progressively less to do. But the contra position is that if groups simply aren't able to clear at all early on (when mistakes are being made while learning the fight), then people won't be clearing to get content on farm in the first place.

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Which goes back to my previous statement: Healers are only fun and valuable when the group has no idea what they're doing. This is an inherently flawed design because once the initial prog period is over, they have no gameplay to fall back on. I have fun playing Summoner 20+ weeks into the Savage tier; I have fun on Dark Knight, Dragoon, Ninja and Warrior. Meanwhile, my Sage friend loathed re-clears every week because she was bored on her job. There was nothing engaging because all she did was spam Dosis III for 80% of the fight.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

I honestly don't get this. I don't "feel good and engaging" on a Tank more than on a Healer. I find both feel good and engaging to play. /shrug

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To each their own I suppose. Although, I do have to ask what groups or content are you partaking in because I find it hard to be engaged spamming Dosis III 500 times. I don't say that as an exaggeration either. I have literally spammed that one button 500 times in 24 man raids. Very riveting, I assure you.

Now the solution isn't necessarily to up the damage on every single fight, though I do believe it's far too low. If healers had a rotation of some sort to fall back on, they'd have something to do during downtime. That is the actual crux here. The devs want accessibility both in making the healing requirements absurdly low but also making the job's non-healing components barebones to not "overwhelm" new players. In other words, the content design and job design from a healer perspective are both insultingly undertuned. If you're new or inexperienced, you aren't going to notice. The moment you become even half-way decent at healing, it will stand out like a sore thumb how irrelevant your role actually is. Even the casual players finally got a taste of this with dungeons. Warrior, in particular, has repeatedly make a mockery of dungeon content. When I can solo every single Endwalker dungeon boss from 100% on Warrior, what use are you as a healer?

Tanks and DPS have never become irrelevant. Yes, we've solo tanked or "man-moded" EX Primals but that's usually with the power of ilvl creep. Come Endwalker, you could "man-mode" the first two floors of Savage with said ilvl creep. That's... not the same thing.

I’m beginning to think thru will never give us an engaging dps rotation. I’ll play my dps and tanks. Paladin is basically a heart hybrid

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Originally Posted by Renathras

I always find this take...odd. Doing HydEx as a fresh 90, healing was absolutely needed and I had to go through about as many practice parties as I did Titania before clear. Some people just have REAL problems with some mechanics. (It's like P1S - Fourfold makes perfect sense to me, but several days of PFs proved to me that it WASN'T for a lot of the other people I was getting in parties with...)

Part of this comes with comparing prog vs farm. Farming, ZodEx only needs 1 healer. Prog, I was in groups that were dying to things left and right and even some that had trouble clearing the 4 spheres add phase. In the all class/no Job stone run I did, someone even remarked we were clearing the add phase better with no Job stones than many of the early learning parties were. So part of this is that the fights are tuned about right for at level gear, prog, and the first week or three of farming. It's after that, once everyone knows the fights and the mechanics and has better gear and weapons, that they feel undertuned. But go run Coils now (considered very difficult at the time) and they'll likely be far easier, even synced, than they were at level just from the ilevel scaling alone.

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You answered my point when you started talking about doing the fight once most people knew the mechanics. Because of how scripted every single fight in the game is, when your group figures out the pattern healers become less and less needed, thus the fights become undertuned for healers. Tanks will always have the same things they deal with, regardless of how good the party gets at a fight because tank busters/swaps, boss positioning, etc will always be the same, DPS will always have to do mechanics while executing their rotations, healers though will have less healing to do since everyone gets better at the fight so they are doing less of their job because the mechanics don't change and damage output goes down as everyone gets better. That is where the flaw in the system is and why I think it is undertuned.

Congratulations to the group who min-maxed the fight and every available cooldowns to make this possible.

I guess just a handful of player's worldwide are good and consistent enough to make a outstanding achievement like this possible.

It show's us what healer and mitigation is capable of.

Well, i will now queue into alliance raid and hopefully the healer's are good enough to keep the group alive.

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Originally Posted by Curisu

Well, i will now queue into alliance raid and hopefully the healer's are good enough to keep the group alive.

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If your group doesn't yolo in avoidable damage no matter the healer's level you'll stay alive. :)

I always blaffed by two things : first it's how people love to push games to their limit, 2nd is how people love to take everything that can help their opinion in account.

Also people tend to be very strict on what should be. I don't think SE bothers if their content are done with non standard group. I could even bet they like this, because it show how imaginative et determined their community is.

And let's be serious a bit :
-Have Healer to have a somehow complex DPS rotation will not help the role.
-Have healer to be forced to spam Physicks/Cure/Benefic/Diagnosis all the time will not help the role neither.

I've always found FFXIV encounter are designed more like a puzzle challenge than like a brutal tests of skills. Considering this, having mechanics which need two healer or two tanks for the sake of healer and tank needed to soak them somehow is normal, fun and engaging.

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Originally Posted by Sparkthor

I don't think SE bothers if their content are done with non standard group. I could even bet they like this, because it show how imaginative et determined their community is.

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Not entirely true.

I.e. Ramuh (Extreme) would like to have a word with you, because they specifically nerf'ed old SMN's Titan fairly quickly when it was discovered you can omit tanks in that duty---It renders tanks unneeded if it was left just like that.

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Originally Posted by Sparkthor

And let's be serious a bit :
-Have Healer to have a somehow complex DPS rotation will not help the role.

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It will to a degree.
The biggest complain is : make downtime (no healing require) more engaging or at least less boring.
More dps option - a "rotation" will break this monotony

But indeed, it won't make us heal more or totally fix healer, that's because of the amount of self heal and mitigation the party can provide now and encounter design.

To be fairly honest...
Considering the dev stance on this topic... if they'd bring back spell like Aero III and Miasma, which is the very least... I would already be happy.

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Originally Posted by Sparkthor

-Have Healer to have a somehow complex DPS rotation will not help the role.

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When you spend the vast majority of time DPSing, even when solo healing the most difficult content in the game, how on earth does this not help?

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Originally Posted by Sparkthor

-Have Healer to have a somehow complex DPS rotation will not help the role.

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Giving the healers a few more DPS buttons they had in the past or new ones to reduce 1-1-1-1 would help the role, actually. What's up with tanks who always insist that we shouldn't be able to have the fun they and DPS jobs are having? If you think this is so fun and engaging, why aren't YOU playing it instead of WAR?

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Originally Posted by Curisu

Congratulations to the group who min-maxed the fight and every available cooldowns to make this possible.

I guess just a handful of player's worldwide are good and consistent enough to make a outstanding achievement like this possible.

It show's us what healer and mitigation is capable of.

Well, i will now queue into alliance raid and hopefully the healer's are good enough to keep the group alive.

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Again:

A) It's not a min-maxing issue as much as it's an issue of mechanic targeting logic arbitrarily forcing a 2 healer composition.

B) You aren't wiping alliance raids because the healer isn't good enough. You are wiping because the party keeps eating mechanics that are tuned to be instant kills after a vuln stack or two or right off the bat. No level of healer skill will help you, unless it's the healers who are running into all the avoidable damage.

C) Don't you think at the very highest possible difficulty just being very good still shouldn't be able to adjust missing half the HPS?

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Originally Posted by Sparkthor

I've always found FFXIV encounter are designed more like a puzzle challenge than like a brutal tests of skills. Considering this, having mechanics which need two healer or two tanks for the sake of healer and tank needed to soak them somehow is normal, fun and engaging.

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As a tank myself. No, it isn't. Having arbitrary mechanics that simply force my existence are neither fun nor engaging because I'm a gimped DPS for 95% of the fight except for that 5% where I have to tank something. Ironically, P4S, the last fight of this tier, is an example of unimaginative tank mechanics. The OT literally vokes to eat a single tank buster in the door boss phase. Otherwise, they may as well be a SAM with permanent weakness. You have no other role. Phase 2 at least has double tank busters.

Healers have it even worse because we'll get fights like E11S that force their existence but unlike tanks, they don't have actual DPS abilities to fall back on. You just get to spam one button and do a mechanic that exists solely to force two of your role in the party. It certainly isn't there to make you think—not unless you find untelegraphed healer stacks or targeted healer AoEs engaging.

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Originally Posted by Nizzi

Giving the healers a few more DPS buttons they had in the past or new ones to reduce 1-1-1-1 would help the role, actually. What's up with tanks who always insist that we shouldn't be able to have the fun they and DPS jobs are having? If you think this is so fun and engaging, why aren't YOU playing it instead of WAR?

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I love being personnaly attacked by someone who on her caracter sheet has only BLM leveled.

But to answer to your question, back in HW :
-The astrologian never got such dps tools you mention.
-The White Mege used to got a AOE dot, which was also used on single target.
-The Schoolar was a summoner with a fairy who healed.

Also, back in HW, you've got cleric stance, which prevent you to heal or to deal dommage depend if it was on or off. I think this skill was very intimidating for newbies (at least it was for me), so i spend most of my time standing still (back in time i didn't do ex but only Mach series raid as healer) because i feared something would happen and i would not be able to do something (you can tell i was a newbie).

Today i mostly tank and DPS because I got friends who enjoy more healing as me in HL content, and also because most of the time, in PF, tanks are more missing than healers. But it doesn't change the fact I enjoy learning to have less GCD heal to my content as healer (Schoolar mostly).

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

As a tank myself. No, it isn't. Having arbitrary mechanics that simply force my existence are neither fun nor engaging because I'm a gimped DPS for 95% of the fight except for that 5% where I have to tank something.

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It's your point, i got mine, we disagree on. I don't think one of us is more right than the other.

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Originally Posted by Sparkthor

But to answer to your question, back in HW :
-The astrologian never got such dps tools you mention.
-The White Mege used to got a AOE dot, which was also used on single target.
-The Schoolar was a summoner with a fairy who healed.

Also, back in HW, you've got cleric stance, which prevent you to heal or to deal dommage depend if it was on or off. I think this skill was very intimidating for newbies (at least it was for me), so i spend most of my time standing still (back in time i didn't do ex but only Mach series raid as healer) because i feared something would happen and i would not be able to do something (you can tell i was a newbie).

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Dat non-sense.

Back in HW healers had something to heal to begin with and other roles didn't heal on their behalf as much as today. Back in HW encounter had unavoidable damage.

Or maybe can you show us how the last 24-ppl raid and ones from HW in their time are the same in the healing side ?

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Originally Posted by Sparkthor

I love being personnaly attacked by someone who on her caracter sheet has only BLM leveled.

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No, I'm a BLM only Lalafell. This means Yoshida listens to me. It's how this game works. /s

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But to answer to your question, back in HW :
-The astrologian never got such dps tools you mention.
-The White Mege used to got a AOE dot, which was also used on single target.
-The Schoolar was a summoner with a fairy who healed.

Also, back in HW, you've got cleric stance, which prevent you to heal or to deal dommage depend if it was on or off. I think this skill was very intimidating for newbies (at least it was for me), so i spend most of my time standing still (back in time i didn't do ex but only Mach series raid as healer) because i feared something would happen and i would not be able to do something (you can tell i was a newbie).

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I'm really not sure why you decided to write the Heavensward recap for me when it has nothing to do with what I posted. I clearly wrote "a few more DPS buttons they had in the past or new ones to reduce 1-1-1-1 would help the role" and they even gave AST back SB Minor Arcana in EW, which personally I find fun to use even if Minor Arcana and Crown Play should be one button. WHM getting Aero III back would be good. SCH getting Miasma and Bane back would be great.

There's no excuse for these jobs all having the exact same DPS 1111 spam when previously they did not. Nobody wants hyper complex rotations. We want to heal, but they aren't designing the game for that and have told us they aren't increasing healing requirements, so all we have to do is spam 1 over and over. It isn't fun and there's no variation in the entire role for this, so at the least giving a few more varied DPS buttons between the healers will allow these jobs to feel unique and varied and not all like the exact same thing. It's boring and there's not a single job on the role that can escape this.

I've said many times on these forums if they add Miasma back (on a different timer from Bio) and Bane, I will stop posting here forever. I enjoy healing. Stop making my "reward" for getting better NOT healing and pressing Broil more. I do NOT hate healing, but I HATE Broil spam.

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Originally Posted by Hellebore_Ghrian

Dat non-sense.

Back in HW healers had something to heal to begin with and other roles didn't heal on their behalf as much as today. Back in HW encounter had unavoidable damage.

Or maybe can you show us how the last 24-ppl raid and ones from HW in their time are the same in the healing side ?

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I don't have record, FFLOGS do but you need to pay a bit to get access to full archived log, with the detail of all casts. It would be nice to have them but I don't used fflogs this often to make a good usage of it.

But as far as I can remember, most alliance raid group go with one healer stuck with Cleric Stance on (mostly schoolars) for the whole raid.

But let's look at some stats, according to FFLOGS :
-The speedest kill of Primo Alexander in patch 3.5.8b got a total HPS from both healers of 4 264 HPS. Back In HW, Tank (but WAR) got ~36k HP and dps ~26k HP. So HPS was roughtly 16% of a dps max HP
-The speedest kill of Hesperos 2 got a total HPS from both healers of 11807 HPS. Dps got ~60k maxHP so HPS is roughtly 20% of a dps max HP.

-> I don't think we can say where were more things to heal back in HW. But true, tanks got more tools, and even with them, healers still roughly heal for same % of HP.

Again, this is wrong, because we have already made the comparison in another thread. (Here, and not only my post others example are on the same page)

Today, to get the same level of hps or to heal the same % of hp if you want, healers have to use less than half the healing actions and they spam a lot more a unique dps spell compared to before.

This is already true when comparing P1S and E1S, and it gets worse the older the content gets.

That matter isn't the % of hp, or the hps, it's the number of healing action you actually use. That number shows that you're engaged in healing. And that number constantly decreases year after year.

When you don't use healing action what remain ? 1 spell 1 dot, 90% of the time. Even in the hardest content of the game while solo healing, that period where you only use 1 spell 1 dot isn't less than 50%.

The amount of mental gymnastics people go through to try and justify spamming a single button for most of a fight is baffling...

How is it hard to understand that having a few different buttons to press is more fun than spamming 1? Imagine if they turned Ninja into having only a reworked Spinning Edge and Death Blossom as a GCD. You could jump through hoops and argue "but it still has lots of oGCD's and high apm and melee uptime and you have to get your Ninjitsu combinations right, it's engaging!" ...but let's be real, it'd suck compared to the real thing.

Healers right now are that hypothetical 1 GCD NIN. We want the real thing.

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Originally Posted by Sparkthor

Also people tend to be very strict on what should be. I don't think SE bothers if their content are done with non standard group. I could even bet they like this, because it show how imaginative et determined their community is.

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As already stated, Ramuh extreme originally could be done without Tanks because SMN's Titan summon was able to Tank the boss. This was nerfed so that Tanks would be required. So SE absolutely do care when non-standard groups clear content, UNLESS it involves healers, then they couldn't care less.

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And let's be serious a bit :
-Have Healer to have a somehow complex DPS rotation will not help the role.
-Have healer to be forced to spam Physicks/Cure/Benefic/Diagnosis all the time will not help the role neither.

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I fail to see how these wouldn't help the role be more engaging. Random damage here and there, DoTs/Debuffs that are actually punishing enough to warrant using Esuna, more support oriented DPS options like a DoT that slows enemies so they attack less often or a DoT that heals party members that attack the affected target would all make the role more interesting to play.

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I've always found FFXIV encounter are designed more like a puzzle challenge than like a brutal tests of skills. Considering this, having mechanics which need two healer or two tanks for the sake of healer and tank needed to soak them somehow is normal, fun and engaging.

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Mechanics have devolved from "I need to shield these 2 people that got targeted with prey or they will die while also making sure the Tank has enough health for the the upcoming Tank Buster" to "Stand in this spot" or "Heal everyone to full". That's literally all they are now. I haven't found a single healer mechanic post HW that actually required anything more from me than the bare minimum of thought. Most Heal checks in Savage raids are literally at the tail end of a fight and only matter in prog. Once the fight is learned, it's one of the 1st mechanics that ends up getting skipped almost entirely because the boss is already at death's doorstep by the time they even start the 1st cast of it, if even that. When was the last time we had a healer check that required using Esuna to purge a debuff but only after another mechanic went off? How about mechanics that required shielding party members or it applied a debuff on them, which is no longer viable only because they removed on demand shields from WHM and AST? There aren't any engaging Healer mechanics anymore and there hasn't been in a long time.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

How about mechanics that required shielding party members or it applied a debuff on them, which is no longer viable only because they removed on demand shields from WHM and AST? There aren't any engaging Healer mechanics anymore and there hasn't been in a long time.

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It would absolutely be viable if they actually went through with their regen/barrier healer split and made one of each a requirement, what we got instead is the same we had before. Shields aren't even necessary if the rest of your party can find their mitigation buttons and you just heal everything with oGCDs as always... we totally needed that super important distinction between WHM/AST and SGE/SCH /s

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

It would absolutely be viable if they actually went through with their regen/barrier healer split and made one of each a requirement, what we got instead is the same we had before. Shields aren't even necessary if the rest of your party can find their mitigation buttons and you just heal everything with oGCDs as always... we totally needed that super important distinction between WHM/AST and SGE/SCH /s

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Yep a group shield is basically 10% of their max hp. Which is conveniently what most dps mitigation is (Feint / Addle / Shield Samba / Reprisal etc etc)

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

It would absolutely be viable if they actually went through with their regen/barrier healer split and made one of each a requirement, what we got instead is the same we had before. Shields aren't even necessary if the rest of your party can find their mitigation buttons and you just heal everything with oGCDs as always... we totally needed that super important distinction between WHM/AST and SGE/SCH /s

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But we know they won't. They went out of their way to remove the need for any job to be required to clear content long ago, leaving the only metric of judging a class' value is how much damage it does/utility it has.

Shields used to be required for mechanics but they removed on demand shields from WHM and AST so shield mechanics went the way of the dodo because it would make SCH/SGE required to clear and SE is too afraid of that happening. So, we're just stuck with the same bland mechanics until either SE decides to grow a pair again or the servers shut down.

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Originally Posted by Sparkthor

It's your point, i got mine, we disagree on. I don't think one of us is more right than the other.

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I do when your argument essentially boils down to the healers are completely fine spamming their 1 key 500 times. No other job in the game does that but apparently it's okay for healers to.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

But we know they won't. They went out of their way to remove the need for any job to be required to clear content long again, leaving the only metric of judging a class' value is how much damage it does/utility it has.

Shields used to be required for mechanics but they removed on demand shields from WHM and AST so shield mechanics went the way of the dodo because it would make SCH/SGE required to clear and SE is too afraid of that happening. So, we're just stuck with the same bland mechanics until either SE decides to grow a pair again or the servers shut down.

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The only decent esuna mechanic we had was tea slush and that was always at the same time/spot. Shiva had a esuna mechanic even less he interesting because it was on the same role all the time. Like heal mechanics since stormblood are heal 100 % or die. The only time they had some interesting healing was O12s Final when a random dps had short Stack Timer and would be dead eating both with no shields or heals.

The people who are jumping to conclusions are very impressive

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Originally Posted by DanielNegreanu_Adamantoise

The people who are jumping to conclusions are very impressive

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What conclusions are we jumping to? The clear was impressive but also highlights several issues with job design, namely that healer requirements are low enough in Ultimate fights to not require 2 healers and can just be supplemented by the utility other classes bring.

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Originally Posted by DanielNegreanu_Adamantoise

The people who are jumping to conclusions are very impressive

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Hardest content in game gets cleared by one less healer then you normally need = jumping to conclusion. I really like too see how you do the fight with only 1 tank or no dps. Why is healer the only job were this is possible ? Healing job is even made easy in the hardest content we have at the moment in the game. Why do you think this is ok

It's not just the fact you can one-heal the new Ultimate. It's the fact you can one-heal everything, including all 4 Ultimates. In some cases you can zero-heal content.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

It's not just the fact you can one-heal the new Ultimate. It's the fact you can one-heal everything, including all 4 Ultimates. In some cases you can zero-heal content.

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Yep. The only reason groups even bring two healers is because SE designs mechanics that explicitly punish you if you dont.

I'd honestly love it if non-standard comps with 1 healer just randomly gave a DPS a status effect designating them as the target for healer mechanics. I mean, why force PF groups adhere to the standard comp when the healer feels confident and more engaged solo healing the instance? Even if you go by the logic that the healer must be some elite of the elite to pull it off, what's the harm in rewarding them and the group with faster clears for their expert healing? I see no reason to arbitrarily force the standard composition.

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

I'd honestly love it if non-standard comps with 1 healer just randomly gave a DPS a status effect designating them as the target for healer mechanics. I mean, why force PF groups adhere to the standard comp when the healer feels confident and more engaged solo healing the instance? Even if you go by the logic that the healer must be some elite of the elite to pull it off, what's the harm in rewarding them and the group with faster clears for their expert healing? I see no reason to arbitrarily force the standard composition.

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Like the "Acting Healer" debuff in p4s.
They're already there. You can use them for any form of non-standard comps. Just randomly assign the missing roles to the overrepresented roles. An "acting tanK" wouldn't get additional aggro or anything like it, they're just a beacon to soak tank-targeted mechanics. Same with acting healer/ acting dps.

Assigning an acting healer is probably the most important one as that is the role that suffers most from bein forced into 2/2/4 comps through untelegraphed mechanics while solo tank is generally less of a hassle but it would still be nice to have it as a general feature.

If healing is so easy that DSR can be solo healed then I guess everyone should go ahead and try it.

No but seriously, that group solo healing is the exception and definitely not the norm. I certainly wouldn't try to solo heal DSR because healing isn't a role I enjoy. I also think some people here don't realize that the average player would never accomplish such a feat, and that's fine. Have to remember that most of the content is designed for the average player, because not everyone is min-maxing the game and there's people of all skill levels playing the game.

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Originally Posted by Veranolth

If healing is so easy that DSR can be solo healed then I guess everyone should go ahead and try it.

No but seriously, that group solo healing is the exception and definitely not the norm. I certainly wouldn't try to solo heal DSR because healing isn't a role I enjoy. I also think some people here don't realize that the average player would never accomplish such a feat, and that's fine. Have to remember that most of the content is designed for the average player, because not everyone is min-maxing the game and there's people of all skill levels playing the game.

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Again and again: it's not the healing that's difficult. Maybe an instance has a single heal check like a doom cleanse that's kind of tricky with just one healer, but do you honestly think the gameplay direction makes any goddamn sense if the toughest heal checks are still doable with one healer and piss easy with 2, and the rest of the time the other healer might not even be there? And that's not even every instance. Like actually needing 2 healers for at least 10 seconds of every 15 minute duty would be a huge step up. But you really don't. And it wouldn't be enough to justify the current design.

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Originally Posted by Veranolth

If healing is so easy that DSR can be solo healed then I guess everyone should go ahead and try it.

No but seriously, that group solo healing is the exception and definitely not the norm.

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It's not the norm because the game literally trolls you for not taking 2 healers.
It's not the difficulty of the solo heal so don't pretend it is, it's extremely disingenuous.


Most groups are not going to deal with intentionally shooting themselves in the foot and it has nothing to do with the actual difficulty of the content.

After a random soccer match :

- Spectator A : "Woah, did you see that ? The team X's defense was so good that the Y team didn't even suceed to aim correctly at the ennemy's goal at all !"
- Spectator B : "Yes, it was pretty awesome to see ! I wonder how long they trained to get such a strong defense !"
- Spectator C : "This must have been not easy and a lot of efforts to be able to play like that !"
- Spectator D : "OMG did you see how goalkeepers are all useless to have in a match ??? What's with soccer's balance ??? What is the FIFA doing ??? How can people not understand that having to bring a goalkeeper in your team when they aren't even needed is the game trolling you ??? The guy who did write soccer's rules must be fired, and never allowed to work in this field ever again !!!"

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Originally Posted by Kleeya

After a random soccer match :

- Spectator A : "Woah, did you see that ? The team X's defense was so good that the Y team didn't even suceed to aim correctly at the ennemy's goal at all !"
- Spectator B : "Yes, it was pretty awesome to see ! I wonder how long they trained to get such a strong defense !"
- Spectator C : "This must have been not easy and a lot of efforts to be able to play like that !"
- Spectator D : "OMG did you see how goalkeepers are all useless to have in a match ??? What's with soccer's balance ??? What is the FIFA doing ??? How can people not understand that having to bring a goalkeeper in your team when they aren't even needed is the game trolling you ??? The guy who did write soccer's rules must be fired, and never allowed to work in this field ever again !!!"

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This is such a dumb analogue I don't even know where to start unpacking this.

It's more like if FIFA made one of the offense sit as the second goalie instead and the only reason to follow the rule is that you get carded at random intervals if there's not exactly 2 people standing on the goal area at the moment.

Seems like a totally legit analogue to me when people think that a rare feat like solo healing an ultimate, which did ask for a lot of beforehand preparation from some of the best skilled players in the world, means that the whole game balance is wrong.

Meanwhile i sure would have liked that "healing is not needed" when, despite using all my dps defense cds and even an hp potion, we did wipe to an usually easy boss the other day when the healer couldn't even heal unavoidable group-wide aoes XD

The key point you seem to be missing is that solo healing is not hard because of how much healing is required, it's because mechanics that are designed to target two healers become "One healer and a random DPS" and that RNG really messes with a lot of strategies, and makes a lot of mechanics total coin flips.

It is fascinating that this even needs explaining.

When you have a mechanic that targets both healers what do you think happens when you only have 1? It targets that 1 healer and a different party member at random, most likely a DPS since you have more of those than dps mechanics in this setup.

So every single dps player in your team needs to be able and ready to immediately resolve the healer mechanic instead. That's where the actual difficulty comes from, not the healing but avoiding a mechanic failure and the resulting oneshot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kleeya

Meanwhile i sure would have liked that "healing is not needed" when, despite using all my dps defense cds and even an hp potion, we did wipe to an usually easy boss the other day when the healer couldn't even heal unavoidable group-wide aoes XD

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That's just someone being shit at their job. For every other role this isn't a valid argument to make the gameplay as failure proof and mindnumbingly simple as possible, why should healers be the exception?